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Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

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tokenBG1009
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by tokenBG1009 » 18 Feb 2020, 00:03

Anna Raven wrote:
17 Feb 2020, 23:57
tokenBG1009 wrote:
17 Feb 2020, 23:00
Anna Raven wrote:
17 Feb 2020, 21:40
I went to see it this afternoon. It was a funny, good solid action flick. Probably 3rd favorite of the DC movies released so far.
Wonder Woman and Aquaman before it?
Yes.
I can respect this. I'd probably put it ahead of Aquaman, but they're all fantastic films.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Anna Raven » 18 Feb 2020, 00:12

tokenBG1009 wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 00:03
Anna Raven wrote:
17 Feb 2020, 23:57
tokenBG1009 wrote:
17 Feb 2020, 23:00


Wonder Woman and Aquaman before it?
Yes.
I can respect this. I'd probably put it ahead of Aquaman, but they're all fantastic films.
Yes, it's not like way down the list or anything. And Shazam! isn't far behind either. I'm glad DC is getting to a point where they are putting out B/B+ level movies consistently. Hopefully they'll hit on a A-/A/A+ soon.

And I should qualify of course I don't consider Joker to be an actual DC superhero film I guess.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by tokenBG1009 » 18 Feb 2020, 00:20

Anna Raven wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 00:12
tokenBG1009 wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 00:03
Anna Raven wrote:
17 Feb 2020, 23:57


Yes.
I can respect this. I'd probably put it ahead of Aquaman, but they're all fantastic films.
Yes, it's not like way down the list or anything. And Shazam! isn't far behind either. I'm glad DC is getting to a point where they are putting out B/B+ level movies consistently. Hopefully they'll hit on a A-/A/A+ soon.

And I should qualify of course I don't consider Joker to be an actual DC superhero film I guess.
I really need to get around to Shazam! at some point. Maybe tonight.

I wouldn't consider Joker in that either.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Nu-D » 18 Feb 2020, 00:41

Let’s not forget that DC has been putting out pretty good superhero movies since the 1970’s. Some duds too, but they were way ahead of Marvel for 30+ years.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by tokenBG1009 » 18 Feb 2020, 09:28

Nu-D wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 00:41
Let’s not forget that DC has been putting out pretty good superhero movies since the 1970’s. Some duds too, but they were way ahead of Marvel for 30+ years.
I think the gap between Superman/Batman and the current slate of DCEU films is big enough to call it a new era. At best you have the Nolan films, but that would be like counting the X-Men/Spider-Man films with the MCU.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Anna Raven » 18 Feb 2020, 14:52

Yes, I was referring to the newer movies only.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Nu-D » 18 Feb 2020, 17:47

I guess I just don’t see a clear line between “old” and “new” DC movies, like I do for marvel movies pre-Iron Man.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Anna Raven » 18 Feb 2020, 18:34

Nu-D wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 17:47
I guess I just don’t see a clear line between “old” and “new” DC movies, like I do for marvel movies pre-Iron Man.
Well I see them in 3 phases. There was the Superman/Batman era films of the 80s and 90s, with Reeves and the various incarnations of Batman (Keaton, Clooney, Kilmer). Then there was the Nolan era of Batman films which were very intertwined and standalone. And then finally there's the DCEU films. Now technically I've been told Shazam! and now probably BoP are not officially DCEU, but there's also nothing saying they aren't DCEU in my mind either.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Nu-D » 18 Feb 2020, 19:40

Anna Raven wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 18:34
Nu-D wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 17:47
I guess I just don’t see a clear line between “old” and “new” DC movies, like I do for marvel movies pre-Iron Man.
Well I see them in 3 phases. There was the Superman/Batman era films of the 80s and 90s, with Reeves and the various incarnations of Batman (Keaton, Clooney, Kilmer). Then there was the Nolan era of Batman films which were very intertwined and standalone. And then finally there's the DCEU films. Now technically I've been told Shazam! and now probably BoP are not officially DCEU, but there's also nothing saying they aren't DCEU in my mind either.
And Joker.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 18 Feb 2020, 21:05

The 8 latest DC movies (MOS, BVS, SS, WW, JL, A, S, BOP) are all set in the same shared continuity unlike earlier movies that were separate. Joker is the exception as it's explicitly not.

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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Nu-D » 18 Feb 2020, 22:04

Until one of the other movies acknowledges Shazam, I’d put it in the same category as the Netflix and CW shows to their respective franchises. It could be in the same universe, but it might be an alt-u.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 18 Feb 2020, 23:23

SHAZAM was made to be part of the linked DC movieverse. The director just forgot to put the new DC vanity plate at the beginning. There's no need to to complicate it.

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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by tokenBG1009 » 19 Feb 2020, 04:05

Nu-D wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 22:04
Until one of the other movies acknowledges Shazam, I’d put it in the same category as the Netflix and CW shows to their respective franchises. It could be in the same universe, but it might be an alt-u.
Superman also cameos in it.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Nu-D » 19 Feb 2020, 11:49

tokenBG1009 wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 04:05
Nu-D wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 22:04
Until one of the other movies acknowledges Shazam, I’d put it in the same category as the Netflix and CW shows to their respective franchises. It could be in the same universe, but it might be an alt-u.
Superman also cameos in it.
Sure, but Justice League Flash cameos in CW, and the Netflix characters discuss Avengers, and Colson is in AoS. Until the other movies reciprocate, it’s a one-way street that can be shut down at any time.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Magik84 » 19 Feb 2020, 12:47

I feel Suicide Squad/Birds of Prey can be their own universe if they want to expand it. They left the end of this film open for potential solo Harley Quinn and separate more traditional Bird of Prey.

This is a film that I wasn't super-hyped up to see, but I thought it was way better than the marketing suggested. Harley's attack on the police station and the fight scene in the evidence locker was the best! Lots of great stuff in there. So anyone on fence about seeing it, I'd recommend giving it a chance.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Blackcyclops » 19 Feb 2020, 12:54

Nu-D wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 11:49
tokenBG1009 wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 04:05
Nu-D wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 22:04
Until one of the other movies acknowledges Shazam, I’d put it in the same category as the Netflix and CW shows to their respective franchises. It could be in the same universe, but it might be an alt-u.
Superman also cameos in it.
Sure, but Justice League Flash cameos in CW, and the Netflix characters discuss Avengers, and Colson is in AoS. Until the other movies reciprocate, it’s a one-way street that can be shut down at any time.
Well those are two very different things.

DC has actually acknowledged (on-screen) that their films and TV series exist in the same multiverse, while Marvel has not.

Now unless we saw Superman crossing the multiverse, there’s no reason why Shazam and the other DC movies arent in the same universe. Iron Man was in a Hulk film before a Hulk was in an Iron Man film but they still existed in the same universe, right?
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Nu-D » 19 Feb 2020, 18:18

Blackcyclops wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 12:54
Nu-D wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 11:49
tokenBG1009 wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 04:05


Superman also cameos in it.
Sure, but Justice League Flash cameos in CW, and the Netflix characters discuss Avengers, and Colson is in AoS. Until the other movies reciprocate, it’s a one-way street that can be shut down at any time.
Well those are two very different things.

DC has actually acknowledged (on-screen) that their films and TV series exist in the same multiverse, while Marvel has not.

Now unless we saw Superman crossing the multiverse, there’s no reason why Shazam and the other DC movies arent in the same universe. Iron Man was in a Hulk film before a Hulk was in an Iron Man film but they still existed in the same universe, right?
The TV shows do, but have the DCEU movies “acknowledged on screen” the events of the shows? If so, I’m not aware of it.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Blackcyclops » 19 Feb 2020, 18:51

Nu-D wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 18:18
Blackcyclops wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 12:54
Nu-D wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 11:49


Sure, but Justice League Flash cameos in CW, and the Netflix characters discuss Avengers, and Colson is in AoS. Until the other movies reciprocate, it’s a one-way street that can be shut down at any time.
Well those are two very different things.

DC has actually acknowledged (on-screen) that their films and TV series exist in the same multiverse, while Marvel has not.

Now unless we saw Superman crossing the multiverse, there’s no reason why Shazam and the other DC movies arent in the same universe. Iron Man was in a Hulk film before a Hulk was in an Iron Man film but they still existed in the same universe, right?
The TV shows do, but have the DCEU movies “acknowledged on screen” the events of the shows? If so, I’m not aware of it.
Well now you’re asking for a different thing because again the difference between Marvel and DC is that all those Marvel shows were supposed to exist literally in the same universe. DC gets around that by making them all a part of a multiverse. And seeing as how no DC film has yet to do anything outside their own universe. So of course there wouldnt be Legends of Tomorrow in WW 1984 lol...that’s a different argument then the one you were originally making in rebuttal to EmP and Token

But to be fair to you, we won’t know until you get a Flash film...so 2022? Or is it 2023?
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Nu-D » 19 Feb 2020, 19:23

Blackcyclops wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 18:51
Nu-D wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 18:18
Blackcyclops wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 12:54


Well those are two very different things.

DC has actually acknowledged (on-screen) that their films and TV series exist in the same multiverse, while Marvel has not.

Now unless we saw Superman crossing the multiverse, there’s no reason why Shazam and the other DC movies arent in the same universe. Iron Man was in a Hulk film before a Hulk was in an Iron Man film but they still existed in the same universe, right?
The TV shows do, but have the DCEU movies “acknowledged on screen” the events of the shows? If so, I’m not aware of it.
Well now you’re asking for a different thing because again the difference between Marvel and DC is that all those Marvel shows were supposed to exist literally in the same universe. DC gets around that by making them all a part of a multiverse. And seeing as how no DC film has yet to do anything outside their own universe. So of course there wouldnt be Legends of Tomorrow in WW 1984 lol...that’s a different argument then the one you were originally making in rebuttal to EmP and Token

But to be fair to you, we won’t know until you get a Flash film...so 2022? Or is it 2023?
I’m taking the simple position that a show or movie may reference another, but until the other reciprocates there’s no confirmation that they belong to the same continuity—whether universal or multiversal. this is because future installments in a particular continuity remain free to ignore or contradict shows or movies that have not previously been acknowledged in that continuity.

So, when the Netflix shows reference Avengers, but Avengers never reciprocates, those Netflix shows remain out of continuity. If a new Daredevil shows up in Disney+ or the next Avengers movie, it doesn’t contradict anything also within the MCU.

When CW uses the JL Flash, that doesn’t mean the CW Flash stories are in continuity for DCEU, even as an alt-U. Future DCEU stories are free to have JL Flash state he’s never seen an alt-version of himself, and there’s no explanation necessary.

However, if Thor: Love & Thunder introduces a new Tony Stark, that’s a continuity problem that needs explaining. IM, Avengers and Thor have all cross-referenced one another.

If the next DCEU installment confirms Shazam! by having Batman mention him, or if it confirms there’s a multiverse and JL Flash saw CW Flash, then yes, it’s confirmed. At that point, future developments that contradict the shared universe need some kind of explanation. As it is now, however, the DCEU can contradict Shazam or the CW shows or Joker with zero explanation necessary.

Frankly, I don’t think DC is fully committed to a shared universe. Though MOS, BVS, JL, WW and Aquaman have all committed to being one continuity, the rest remain less clearly linked. And now we get a Joker movie that’s clearly not in continuity, and reportedly the upcoming Batman movie will also be “Elseworlds,” meaning outside of the DCEU, such as it is. You just can’t point at MOS and claim that it’s a breaking point between pre-DCEU and post-DCEU movies, like you can for Iron Man and the MCU.

Bringing it back around to where it started, given that DC is still making movies that are disconnected from their DCEU continuity, I don’t see a clear reason to draw a line between the in-movies and out-movies when considering the overall quality of their output. I think that DC has had just as many very good or great superhero movies as Marvel, when you include the Nolan films and old-school stuff. I’d put Superman II and Batman Returns up there against half of the MCU, and certainly better than most of the X-Men movies or the Garfield Spiderman.
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 21 Feb 2020, 22:51

Future movies can always ignore or contradict movies that have already been acknowledged as in continuity. This has happened in numerous franchises.

There's only been one DC movieverse film since SHAZAM & that's BOP. There was no narrative reason for BOP to reference it.

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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Feb 2020, 00:37

EvilMonkeyPope wrote:
21 Feb 2020, 22:51
Future movies can always ignore or contradict movies that have already been acknowledged as in continuity. This has happened in numerous franchises.

There's only been one DC movieverse film since SHAZAM & that's BOP. There was no narrative reason for BOP to reference it.

^^^^
Agreed
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Re: Birds of Prey: Harley Quinn

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 17 Mar 2020, 21:25

This will be coming to streaming March 24!


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