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Game of Thrones

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medium13
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by medium13 » 22 Apr 2019, 15:54

Season 8's "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms"

Our second episode of the final season continues tying up loose ends and some more substantive reunions but kept a tense feeling surrounding the characters as the face an impending attack from the army of the dead. The episode opens with Jaime facing many of the characters his house has harmed. Daenerys has vengeance on the mind and publicly scolds Tyrion, undermining his value. Sansa appears to agree with the assessment but Brienne steps in on his behalf convincing Sansa that he is not the man his reputation suggests. Jon pragmatically suggests they need every man. Bran chimes in with his trademark quip of repeating a fundamental line of the character before him. Seeing business done, Jon and Sansa both leave a flustered Daenerys to ponder when Jamie might try and slit her throat. This scene moves quickly, but it is effective, although I was certainly hoping for more as the previews gave a huge portion of this scene up for viewing before hand. Retreating from his Queen's wrath, Tyrion quips that Jorah or Varys may be wearing the hand before the end is here, which I think is a good bit of foreshadowing if Tyrion ends up ascending to a higher position in the kingdom be it the crown or democracy.
Bran and Jamie meet in the Godswood. Bran is above the circumstances that happened to him, and this scene is satisfying since it doesn't absolve Jamie of his decisions but it brings him to where he needs to be - at Winterfell with these individuals. It is implied that Jamie might actually survive.

Arya continues her flirtation with Gendry and she procures her weapon from him. Later in the evening, when it is clear that the army of the dead will be at Winterfell shortly, they decide to spend the night together since it might be their last night. It's causes a lot of buzz online, as we are used to thinking of Arya as a child assassin, but it confirms that Arya is still a human, who wants to be loved and perhaps is a bad omen for her ultimate survival. Much like Greyworm and Missandei, who talk of the future, it seems these couples won't get their happy endings. Jamie asks for permission to serve under Brienne for the coming battle. It's hard not to wonder if there is a romantic under current for Jamie as there is certainly for Brienne. The same question will come up for Sansa and Theon later in the episode, although I hope the answer there is as the creators described in the after show - merely two people rebuilding their humanity after terrible trauma.

Jorah comes to Daenerys and surprisingly vouches for Tyrion. The writing in this scene is well done, and initially, I believe Jorah is about to try and grab the position. He encourages Daenerys to speak with Sansa as well as both Jon and Sansa gave Daenerys a bit of the cold shoulder and left abruptly. Sansa and Daenerys have one of the best scene of the night. They bond as women and manage to open up to each other. But, Sansa questions what happens to the North after all of this is over. They fought for their independence, the lost. They retook Winterfell. What happens next ? Sansa is forceful, yet not threatening. She's showing she's faithful to her people. Daenerys recoils at this question, perhaps rightfully but she's not used to being questioned this way. Part of me believes that Sansa, despite what the North wants, may have to be more dutiful to Daenerys. The king in the North bent the knee after all, just like Torrhen Stark did 300 years before.

While Winterfell prepares for war, we have a moment where Davos is surely reminded of Shireen, suggesting Melisandre may return soon. The remaining Night's Watch returns to Winterfell announcing that the Night King will arrive soon - within the night perhaps leading to another great scene where the war counsel convenes. Bran explains that the Night King seeks to bring about endless night - death - and erase the collective knowledge of the past as he has tried to before with other 3 eyed Ravens. They agree to use Bran as bait in the Godswood in an attempt to keep the army of the dead out of Winterfell and meet them on the grounds. Theon is be there to guard him and it seems there may be others as well, although who exactly we're not sure. Arya even questions if dragon fire will actually kill the Night King. Daenerys offers a peace offering to Tyrion, explaining that she brought him for his mind and it's the closest he'll get to an apology for her reprimand earlier.

On their last night, groups form to spend what might be their last hours together. Jorah is gifted Heartsbane from Samwell. Lyanna Stark refuses to hide in the crypts. Brienne is knighted in a powerful and emotional scene by Jaimie. Podrick sings a song about Jenny of Oldstones, which much is made of online if you're curious.

Daenerys finds Jon in the crypts before the tomb of Lyanna Stark. He shares with her that he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna and again, I think this scene is written so well. He doesn't just come out with the information, he gives her pieces which she puts together because she knows them to be true, but she reacts adversely as this information rocked Jon's view of his identity it rocks hers as well. Before they can take a deep dive into what this may mean for them as individuals or together, the war horns sound as the Whitewalkers approach Winterfell.

I liked this episode, although again it doesn't do much but move the plot forward. It's unfortunate we don't take any detours to Kings Landing, but it also keeps the dramatic tension and intensity alive but not shifting our focus. There are some stellar character beats, although I'd preferred less coupling with the exception of Arya. The build up also moves Daenerys into a position where I believe, even the audience might start to lose faith in her ability to lead.

And we're off!

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by tokenBG1009 » 23 Apr 2019, 05:24

An alternate name for this episode:
Image


It astounds me anyone would think that just because there's no action in the last couple episodes that they're filler. You don't have filler in a 6 episode season/series finale! Especially considering how much story is left to be told. IF the North survives the coming battle then Cersei still has to be dealt with. Assuming the Night King hasn't already sent a force around Winterfell to head south and take her out already.

I feel like the mention of the crypts is meant to be seen as important, but I'm not sure how. Sure, the Night King can resurrect the dead, but the freshest corpse in that crypt is a kid who doesn't know how to zig zag and his father whos' been dead for six+ years. I imagine the location will play some role in the battle to come, but I'm not sure how/why and I doubt it's going to be dangerous to those inside. Maybe the forces of Winterfell will need to fall back and it's warded against the dead? Thus, it really is the safest place.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by LimboMaster » 23 Apr 2019, 12:25

tokenBG1009 wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 05:24
the freshest corpse in that crypt is a kid who doesn't know how to zig zag and his father whos' been dead for six+ years.
Which kid is this? I'm drawing a blank.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by medium13 » 23 Apr 2019, 13:43

I read some interesting speculation regarding the crypts online this morning. Did Ned's bones ever arrive to Winterfell in the Show? I vaguely recall a scene in Season 2 where Catelyn accepts the bones and sends them on their way. I don't particularly want to see the dead rise in the crypts but it seems like a logical inference. It's perplexing nobody thought of this possibility in character.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Anna Raven » 23 Apr 2019, 14:26

medium13 wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 13:43
I read some interesting speculation regarding the crypts online this morning. Did Ned's bones ever arrive to Winterfell in the Show? I vaguely recall a scene in Season 2 where Catelyn accepts the bones and sends them on their way. I don't particularly want to see the dead rise in the crypts but it seems like a logical inference. It's perplexing nobody thought of this possibility in character.
Evidently his bones did, but not his head, which would preclude the possibility of a zombie Sean Bean cameo most likely.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by tokenBG1009 » 24 Apr 2019, 05:18

LimboMaster wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 12:25
tokenBG1009 wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 05:24
the freshest corpse in that crypt is a kid who doesn't know how to zig zag and his father whos' been dead for six+ years.
Which kid is this? I'm drawing a blank.
Rickon Stark
medium13 wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 13:43
I read some interesting speculation regarding the crypts online this morning. Did Ned's bones ever arrive to Winterfell in the Show? I vaguely recall a scene in Season 2 where Catelyn accepts the bones and sends them on their way. I don't particularly want to see the dead rise in the crypts but it seems like a logical inference. It's perplexing nobody thought of this possibility in character.
If the dead do rise in the crypts I don't think it's going to be due to the Night King.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Magnus » 29 Apr 2019, 06:00

Boy, Episode 3 was a massive fucking disappointment.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by manuel_mc89 » 29 Apr 2019, 11:39

I disagree, I can't stop thinking about it. So much tension, so much destruction, and that ending. God. My only question is what (if any) does it have to do with the promised prince prophecies
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Anna Raven » 29 Apr 2019, 14:42

manuel_mc89 wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 11:39
I disagree, I can't stop thinking about it. So much tension, so much destruction, and that ending. God. My only question is what (if any) does it have to do with the promised prince prophecies
Seems like this is a pretty polarizing episode. Not just based on Magnus and Manuel, but I'm seeing similar things all over social media. For those who did not like it, what specifically did you not care for? Were you expecting a different outcome? Was it "too dark to see things clearly" (which is one complaint I am seeing a lot on Twitter)? Just curious, as someone who got about what I expected.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by sambadaemon » 29 Apr 2019, 15:31

I'm undecided on whether I liked this episode or not. It seemed like it resolved too quickly for my tastes. We could have had a two-part battle for Winterfell episode while saving an entire episode for the battle for King's Landing and a "taste of peace" final episode. And the battle plan bothered me. Why were the dragons not in the air thinning the herd as soon as Tormund got back instead of sending your best troops in blind?

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by medium13 » 29 Apr 2019, 16:40

Spoilers below in my thoughts

My initial response was one of disappointment, however as I review the episode in my mind today, I am slowly realizing some of the highlights of "The Long Night". The opening scenes highlighted the tension and quiet before an intense battle, and that did not disappoint. It set up remarkable dramatic tension that left me feeling uneasy. I was quite excited and anxious for this episode.

Thematically, I accept that the episode was dark and it was often difficult to determine what was happening. It actually fits the context of the battle and the events quite well and it also felt right in a way. Visually, it made me feel like I couldn't follow the episode. I didn't know what had happened to characters and I couldn't tell if I was missing something important. When I was able to look at stills of some of the shots, like Jaime and Brienne fighting off the undead set infront of fire, it was beautiful but hard to take note of while watching. The Dothraki charge with weapons aflame was probably my favorite visual, as the lights slowly dimmed. But that didn't explain to us why Jorah was able to be in the front line and return, what happened to Ghost, or the other unanswered questions. But, in other places it worked like Dany sweeping over the battlefield unseen in a burst of dragon flame. To address the question of strategy above, my understanding was they were using the Dothraki to draw out the Night King and have two dragons battle one. The alternative being that the Night King would be able to surprise Drogon or Rhaegal separately and take them down. Daenerys abandoned this plan when she saw the Dothraki perish and they tried to compensate by keeping the dragons together, although this resulted in flying blind and hitting each other.

As far as the story, my major gripe is that the Night King represented the grand consequences of this world. That the Iron Throne doesn't matter. But here, he is dispatched and we return to a battle that will probably be gruesome and heart wrenching but seemly of less importance that the battle between the living and the dead. I was excited that Arya attacked the Night King in the climax. I thought that I might be witnessing her death even though it was foreshadowed heavily in the episode that she would take out the Night King. Looking back, her scenes with Beric and the Hound were well written and evoked her storyline well. But, I also question where that leaves us in terms of the Prince or was Promised and how this will fit into global themes of ice and fire. The scenes inside Winterfell were too similar to the Walking Dead for me and it took me out of the moment.

I'm still on the fence also and seeing the previews for the next episodes made me feel recharged.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by WorldWideWade » 29 Apr 2019, 16:59

My major complaint with all of this was that I expected some kind of revelation about the Night King that never came.

A pure evil horde of zombies with a leader that just wants to kill everyone is a trope beneath the excellent writing of this show/books. I have to assume that George R.R. Martin did not tell the showrunners the ultimate motivations/back story of the Night King or that we will find out more about it from Bran in a later episode.

Also what was Bran doing that whole time? He better have some kind of explanation for what this was all about.

The fight scenes while dark where mostly well shot. I do think the plot armor on all of the surviving characters was a bit thick and unbelievable.

Overall I think it was a bit disappointing and I think at least 1-2 more important characters probably should have died. I do think it was still a good episode though.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by medium13 » 29 Apr 2019, 17:07

I agree with regard to motivations and understanding the Night King as well. That is an important piece for me. I'm also unsure about the survival rate. I had assumed we'd get more supporting character deaths. Good points.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Magnus » 29 Apr 2019, 17:28

Anna Raven wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 14:42
Seems like this is a pretty polarizing episode. Not just based on Magnus and Manuel, but I'm seeing similar things all over social media. For those who did not like it, what specifically did you not care for? Were you expecting a different outcome? Was it "too dark to see things clearly" (which is one complaint I am seeing a lot on Twitter)? Just curious, as someone who got about what I expected.
The writing has definitely gone down hill (or at least, become far more straightforward/less interesting) since the show has moved beyond the books, but I think that's understandable. But one thing the show has still consistently nailed was the spectacle, especially the big battle scenes. Hardhome and the Battle of the Bastards were amazing, but I found this fight to be quite underwhelming by comparison.

I do think it was too dark to see what was going on for much of it, though I'd put more blame on the rapid jump cut editing - there were often points where I couldn't tell if someone getting stabbed was a human or a wight for example because they were cloaked in darkness and the camera cut away almost immediately. Couldn't tell which dragon was which in the aerial battle unless they started breathing fire. There were also far too many times where it looked like a main character was in trouble (pinned down by multiple wights or such) and then it would just cut away and oh, I guess they're fine. After that happened a couple times it basically sucks all the tension out of it.

Given how much everyone was foreshadowing the crypts ("it's the safest place") I kept expecting some twist there. I can't believe not a single character was smart enough to say "ya know maybe hiding in an area with a bunch of dead bodies isn't a good idea against a necromancer." But no, they just end up being raised as more wights, some no-names get killed, that's it.

The death count also ended up being far too low, I think, which also saps a lot of the impact. Theon and Jorah are the two biggest names to bite it, but their stories were basically over already. As far as I can tell, every person in last episode's scene sitting around the fireplace survived.

I thought the Night King's death was pretty anti-climatic, to be honest. Theon died pretty pointlessly and I was hoping for something more clever than than just "yup, stab him with Valyrian steel and we win." I have no problem with Arya getting the hit in, but the execution was really lame... either have more characters involved to make it a team effort, or something more of a distraction, don't just let her run up to him. If the Night King just wanted Bran dead, why not just send all of his other White Walker buddies to do the deed instead of himself? He didn't even indulge in a monologue. Not to mention that his nemesis Jon spends the whole fight basically being useless. The writers said they decided on having Arya be the one to kill the Night King three years ago because "it would be unexpected" but given all the foreshadowing I don't really see how that works. But then again I've also found her training into a super assassin to be kinda eye-rolly in general. The Faceless Men are supposed to be special because they can steal faces, infiltrate anywhere and vanish without a trace, not because they have demi-god tier fighting abilities. Also a large part of what makes them interesting is the whole concept of becoming a nameless assassin and losing your humanity, something Arya hasn't struggled with in awhile... she's still Arya, just with super bad-ass fighting abilities now.

I also definitely agree that I wanted more insight into the Night King and all the other backstory/lore stuff (like the PWWP) which we may still get, but if the Night King is truly dead and gone now it feels a bit hollow.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Anna Raven » 29 Apr 2019, 18:13

WorldWideWade wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 16:59
My major complaint with all of this was that I expected some kind of revelation about the Night King that never came.

A pure evil horde of zombies with a leader that just wants to kill everyone is a trope beneath the excellent writing of this show/books. I have to assume that George R.R. Martin did not tell the showrunners the ultimate motivations/back story of the Night King or that we will find out more about it from Bran in a later episode.
Those of us who have read the books know the motivations, they only vaguely alluded to it in the show though, so I will keep it secret unless you want to be spoiled in which case I will message you.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by manuel_mc89 » 29 Apr 2019, 19:36

I liked that Arya was the one that did it, but i dont like what (if any) it means about the prophecy, unless it hasnt come to pass yet, and the long night oir darkness hasnt been stopped yet, but, Melissandre's whole deal has been about Azor Ahai, and if it was Arya, apparently she has gotten it wrong at least three times,

Jon and Dany were pretty useless, personally, besisdes being the ones with the army, and the dragons.}

Brans deal wasnt explained, he possesed some crows, and did nothing?

There should've been more deaths, even if it would've hurt, the stakes were incredibily high, they were like ants in number, and they easily overwhelmed everybody, the fact that there were only such minor losses is incredible.

I love Sansa, and i appreciate her recognizing how theres nothing she could do, it was sensible.

Really Jon, you did (almost) nothing.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Anna Raven » 29 Apr 2019, 21:17

manuel_mc89 wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 19:36
I liked that Arya was the one that did it, but i dont like what (if any) it means about the prophecy, unless it hasnt come to pass yet, and the long night oir darkness hasnt been stopped yet, but, Melissandre's whole deal has been about Azor Ahai, and if it was Arya, apparently she has gotten it wrong at least three times,

Jon and Dany were pretty useless, personally, besisdes being the ones with the army, and the dragons.}

Brans deal wasnt explained, he possesed some crows, and did nothing?

There should've been more deaths, even if it would've hurt, the stakes were incredibily high, they were like ants in number, and they easily overwhelmed everybody, the fact that there were only such minor losses is incredible.

I love Sansa, and i appreciate her recognizing how theres nothing she could do, it was sensible.

Really Jon, you did (almost) nothing.
I basically think this is the case. Melisandre's story was about searching, and often wrongly, picking who would become Azor Ahai and trying to help them achieve their destiny. First it was Stannis, then Beric, then Jon, then maybe Dany, and finally she realized it was Arya staring her in her face all along. Once she had finally achieved that destiny, of helping the Prince(ss) that was Promised, she was able to take off her magical choker and rest.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Magnus » 29 Apr 2019, 23:29

I'm really curious to see what they do with Jon... pretty much his only goal has been to defeat the White Walkers, and that's over. He has no interest in being King of the North much less sitting the Iron Throne. You'd think he'd probably just want to be left alone but I suppose he'll feel somewhat indebted to help Dany since she "helped" him (I guess, in the end her forces were just sacrificial meat and her dragons didn't do anything). But I really don't see him suddenly pulling a Stannis and insisting that he rule since that's what the rules say.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by WorldWideWade » 30 Apr 2019, 02:54

Anna Raven wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 18:13
WorldWideWade wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 16:59
My major complaint with all of this was that I expected some kind of revelation about the Night King that never came.

A pure evil horde of zombies with a leader that just wants to kill everyone is a trope beneath the excellent writing of this show/books. I have to assume that George R.R. Martin did not tell the showrunners the ultimate motivations/back story of the Night King or that we will find out more about it from Bran in a later episode.
Those of us who have read the books know the motivations, they only vaguely alluded to it in the show though, so I will keep it secret unless you want to be spoiled in which case I will message you.
I've read the books but it's been awhile since I've read them especially Books 4-5. All I recall from the books and the show are that they were created by the Children of the Forest as a weapon to wipe out man. However, the Night King always seemed to be hiding a slightly more interesting agenda than that. If I'm forgetting something feel free to PM me.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Milkshake08 » 30 Apr 2019, 05:23

There were some good things about this episode, namely Mel, Theon, and Arya, but honestly I'm ready for the show to be over. This episode felt like a lot of the missteps from the last season in one big battle.

GoT loves to disrespect it's brown characters but has yet to say anything meaningful about why. The Dothraki are wasted in the worst battle plan I've ever seen in a fantasy anything, and then the other non-white people are forced to stand outside to let the white folk retreat. I'm sorry, but that's incredibly stupid of the showrunners. It's all over social media pointing to the already criticized racist insensitivities of the show. Not to mention, why? Why wasn't the fire barrier around the whole army? Why didn't they just wait for the dead to come to them and hole up inside the barrier of Winterfell? Why weren't Dany and Jon blazing the eff out of the army and lighting it up so everyone could see? The darkness of the episode was distracting.

Secondly, it was incredibly anti climactic. This should be the biggest battle and final battle of the show. Who the hell cares about battling Cersei and a bunch of her hired goons? I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about literal death descending on the country, which has been teased since the very first seconds of the show. Now that's over. The Iron Throne is a stupid conquest comparitively. Why was the Night King even after Bran? Why did any of this really matter?

I predicted Arya would kill the Night King long ago- I think that will even be true in the books, no matter what the show runners say, because Arya is GRRM and his wife's favorite character. I knew Jamie would survive - from what I can tell, he'll be the one to kill Cersei, if the story has any sort of narrative sense. But most of the other survivors were just dumb, especially Sam. Maybe if he was in the crypts, but he was constantly swarmed with the dead in this episode, not to mention the constant shots of him looking off in the distance at a dragon or something while surrounded by the zombies and still ends up safe. It made no sense. The plot armor wouldn't have been so silly if they showed literally anyone standing next to them, but it was each of them facing a horde of the dead by themselves. Honestly, it drained the episode of tension for me and I feel like I watched a totally different show since everyone is talking about how good this was and it was a prime example to me of why the show has been wildly inconsistent and stupidly written since they went off book. The only things that have really felt good are things I expect are in GRRM's notes, like Cersei demolishing the Sept of Baylor, Arya killing Frey, the Battle of the Bastards, and in this episode, Melisandre's death. I just think the show writers are speeding things up and not thinking them through now that they don't have an actual book to adapt and condense.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Anna Raven » 30 Apr 2019, 05:32

WorldWideWade wrote:
30 Apr 2019, 02:54
Anna Raven wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 18:13
WorldWideWade wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 16:59
My major complaint with all of this was that I expected some kind of revelation about the Night King that never came.

A pure evil horde of zombies with a leader that just wants to kill everyone is a trope beneath the excellent writing of this show/books. I have to assume that George R.R. Martin did not tell the showrunners the ultimate motivations/back story of the Night King or that we will find out more about it from Bran in a later episode.
Those of us who have read the books know the motivations, they only vaguely alluded to it in the show though, so I will keep it secret unless you want to be spoiled in which case I will message you.
I've read the books but it's been awhile since I've read them especially Books 4-5. All I recall from the books and the show are that they were created by the Children of the Forest as a weapon to wipe out man. However, the Night King always seemed to be hiding a slightly more interesting agenda than that. If I'm forgetting something feel free to PM me.
I mean you mostly have got it, except that remember not only did the Night King decide man needed to be wiped out, but the Children also, so basically all life. This resulted in the Children and First Men working together to defeat the Night King during the Long Night.

Think Ultron, who turns on his creators so that they have to unite with their enemies to defeat him.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by tokenBG1009 » 30 Apr 2019, 06:03

The Dothraki deaths were easily the worst part of this episode. It was such a stupid plan. What were they going to accomplish? Sure, it gave you a slight "Oh shit!" moment, but then you're like "Well, no shit." because of course that was going to happen. I also wonder constantly why the dragons weren't used more. I get they were meant to be used against the dracolich, but come on!

The Unsullied were badass and I feel like the outcry of them defending the retreat is misplaced. Dothraki? Yeah, pointless and wasteful deaths. The Unsullied? The most badass badasses to ever be badass. I'm looking at this as the PoCs holding strong due to honor and bravery while everything goes to shit around them and the white dudes run scared.

I do agree that the battle for the Iron Throne seems almost petty now.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Wings » 06 May 2019, 12:47

The Last of the Starks

The episode begins outside Winterfell with the characters mourning those lost to the Army of the Dead. Dany kisses Jorah goodbye, while Sansa cries over Theon, placing a fire wolf pin on his chest in a touching scene. Arya tries to remain aloof but nearly comes to tears herself as she observes the body of Beric Dondarrion. Jon gives a touching eulogy, memorialising those who served as "The shields of the realms of men." Finally, the leaders at Winterfell all step forward to light the pyres having said their last goodbyes to those lost. Dany and Jon share a long loving glance as they light Jorah and Lyanna Mormont's pyre.

Following the service, the survivors assemble for a feast. Everyone is in "let's be jolly" mode, except for Daenerys who is still reeling from the revelation that she and Jon are related, but that his claim to the throne is stronger than hers. She singles out Gendry as he makes to leave the feast to find Arya, and all eyes turn to her in fear only for her to legitimise Gendry as a Baratheon and proclaim him the new Lord of Storm's End. And yet, no sooner has a toast been given than all attention turns back to Jon, the man who rose from the dead and lead the fight against the Night King. Daenerys' Hand, Tyrion is busy playing a version of "Never Have I Ever" with his brother, Podrick and Brienne, while Sansa continues to give her serious side-eye. Daenerys leaves, troubled, as a concerned Varys watches on. Meanwhile, Tyrion's game culminates in Brienne making her own early exit, followed by Jaime, while Tormund is gently placated with more alcohol by Tyrion. Sansa and the Hound share a brief conversation about how Sansa's hardships have made her a more capable woman.

Gendry finds Arya, and high off surviving the battle and being a newly minted Lord, proposes to her. Arya rejects him, as being a Lord's wife is not what's in her nature. She kisses him goodbye.

Daenerys and Jon meet. Dany reveals what we already know. She fears her claim to the Iron Throne is slipping through her fingers. Jon claims he doesn't want the Throne, but Dany rightly sees that what Jon wants isn't what's going to matter if his parentage is discovered. They both built their power bases on the basis of faith and trust. Thanks to her support of Jon, Dany has lost Jorah, and the majority of the Dothraki and Unsullied armies, and despite her sacrifices, the people of the North don't trust her. She begs Jon to swear Bran and Sam to secrecy so that they can go back to how things were and leave Dany's claim secure. Jon agrees.

Jaime and Brienne sleep together.

During a war council, Dany advocates for heading for King's Landing and ending Cersei as quickly as possible. Sansa argues against this, claiming everyone needs to time to heal and rest before they head south. Dany's frustration is clear to everyone and Jon agrees to have the Northmen head south. As the meeting adjourn, Arya asks Jon for a word. The Stark siblings all meet in the God's wood, where Arya and Sansa argue with Jon about his loyalty to Dany. Jon argues that Dany has done nothing but help them at great personal cost. Arya agrees, to Sansa's surprise, but nevertheless agrees with her sister that Jon's loyalty to the Starks should supercede his feelings for Dany as they are family. Jon reneges on his promise to Daenerys and reveals his parentage to Arya and Sansa, swearing them to secrecy. Sansa, still untrusting of the Dragon Queen, promptly blabs to Tyrion as he tries to convince her to have faith in Daenerys, asking "What of there was someone better?"
Tyrion blabs to Varys as they sail for Dragonstone, and the Spider expresses concern over Dany's state of mind. Ominously, he observes that given the amount of people who know Jon's parentage, it is no longer a secret, but information to be bargain with. The tides continue to shift against her and as her fleet nears Dragonstone, they are ambushed by Euron, whose ships have all been equipped with scorpions capable of taking out dragons. Rhaegal dies in the initial assault and though Dany maneuvers Drogon away, Euron turns his sights on her fleet, decimating her remaining forces, Missandei is captured by Euron in the chaos.


Meanwhile in King's Landing, Cersei is preparing for war, eschewing her black attire for a glorious return to the Lannisters' trademark red and gold. She plans to use the people of King's Landing as a human shield, offering themprotection within the Red Keep. She lies to Euron, claiming the child she is pregnant with is his. We see Missandei in chains as Cersei exits, belittling Dany's title of "Breaker of Chains" Dany opts to press for an attack against Tyrion and Varys' advice, though they manage to convince her to at least offer Cersei the chance to surrender. Secretly, Varys' allegiance has already shifted in favour of Jon, and he openly discusses treason against Dany in the name of the Realm.

A contingent of Dany's forces, along with Varys, Grey Worm, Tyrion and Dany herself arrive at King's Landing in a final attempt to parlay with Cersei. The rival queen's both demand the other's unconditional surrender. Tyrion attempts to reason with his sister through a speech about the fate of her child. Cersei promptly executes the captive Missandei, whose final word to Dany and Grey Work is "Dracarys", the word with which Dany set her free. As Grey Worn grieves, Daenerys turns away, her rage bubbling closer to the surface than ever. The Battle for King's Landing is close at hand..

Oh, and Jaime abandons a tearful Brienne to head for King's Landing, although whether he is returning to be at Cersei's side or to be her end, remains unclear. Arya is also heading for King's Landing with the Hound.



I had issues with this episode. I'm not enjoying Dany's treatment. She has her flaws but I still believe she'd make a better ruler than Jon or Cersei, but perhaps that makes the case for why it seems she won't win the Iron Throne. Although this episode seems to have everyone thinking she will sacrifice the people of King's Landing, I hope that at the last minute she will realise that this action is not what she's been fighting for, even if she believes the fault of the people's demise would lie with Cersei. At this stage I predict that a mournful Dany will return to Essos alone with Drogon at the end of the series.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by medium13 » 08 May 2019, 16:20

The more I think about this episode the more I hate it, even though there were small, minor beats I liked mostly happening in the front half of the episode. I'm not even sure how to coherently write about the issues, and I think a character breakdown is the best way. The funeral and feasting scenes made this fun to watch, but by the time Dany is making way to Dragonstone the episode takes a nose-dive as steep as Drogon's descent on the Iron Fleet.

Sansa -

The funeral was touching, and Sansa paying her respects to Theon moved me. It also surprised me because generally, I don't find Theon so sympathetic that I will ignore his terrible decisions through the series. However, Sansa bringing him full circle post mortem with a Direwolf pin gave me the feels. I didn't feel as much for either Jorah or Lyanna Mormont, both characters I actually enjoyed. Sansa continues to the be the most observant and keen player on the board, seeing through Dany's obvious attempt to woe a Stark supporter into a Targareyon supporter by raising Gendry to the Lord of Storm's End. It also shows she's asserting her power and authority as a Queen - and Sansa is aware of this. She has the reunion with the Hound I've been waiting for - except just a few lines in it takes a turn for the worse, and it rightly receives criticism online for being completely tone deaf and sends a horrifying message to girls and survivors of rape and sexual assault. Sansa cautions wisely against moving the armies so quickly after the battle. This is the Sansa Stark that I knew could exist, who is the best of her family and the best of what her enemies have taught her.

Sansa took some flack online for her informing Tyrion (and therefore Varys) of Jon's true parentage. But, I don't have an issue with this at all. In fact, from her perspective, it think it's both smart and it seems like she's authentically grappling with the idea Jon is better suited to rule than Dany, at least when it comes to the interests of the North. Sansa has been looking at the long game and big picture for a long time and she knows already that a Targareryon means that the North must bend and lose its independence. While a lot of people blame her for not keeping a promise to hide this secret, Jon didn't keep it either. He choose to tell Arya and Sansa already being cautioned by Dany that it would make their situation untenable and out of their control.

A real fault in the writing here is we don't see Sansa and Arya's reaction to this information. We don't see the implications it has about their family history, their beliefs about their father, how they've treated Jon, or what it means next. We only get the take away that the Starks are so wary of outsiders (an arguement that steamrolls to meet Cersei's smear campaign against Dany) and that Sansa is going to break a vow. When she receives word that Dany has lost another dragon over Storm's End, she also seems to warn Jamie that it is the end for Kings Landing. Sansa predicts Dany will lose it although she's never been witness to Dany being more ruthless and has a role in prompting Jaime to leave Winterfell.

Dany -

Dany is getting a terrible character arc in just a few episodes. While she acts politically savvy with Gendry, it's clear that Varys is observing her with suspicion from the feast scene. She observes Tyrion with his family and we are meant to think she's paranoid. She is envious of the way the North treats Jon since he rode a dragon for 15 minutes and is praised as a King. Dany's feelings about this aren't irrational. She does manage to win some cheers from the North and she's not acted impulsively on any of her insecurities. I felt her desperation as she begs Jon to keep his parentage a secret, and she's not wrong. She is offering an alternative but if falls on deaf ears, not because Jon doesn't love her or has interest in ruling, but because he values honor and underestimates the wickedness of people.

In the span of this episode, she's going to suffer more humiliating and hurtful losses, yet no one in the North has thanked her from giving them a chance against the Night King, as she says, "at great cost to herself". By the time we get to the war counsel, she's uncharacteristically irrational. She chastises everyone and insinuates that the North will abandon her cause, which isn't what was being said to her.

Over Dragonstone, the episode loses me completely. It was lazy writing that lost even the simplicity of shock value. Dany looks like an idiot as after Rhaegal is unceremoniously killed in a way that defies explanation, she charges at the fleet placing herself in mortal danger instead of taking any reasonable steps to defeat the enemy...again. This feels like character assassination. How is Euron in the exact spot at the exact time he's supposed to be absent treason? How does Dany not see him ? Why doesn't she burn the fleet from behind ? Why is Rhaegal killed so easily? Are dragons weapons of mass destruction or no? Aegon and his sisters conquered all of Westeros 300 years before losing only one dragon - from a scorpion bolt to the eye. It's not like the new scorpions are that much more advanced. It's irritating. Also irritating is how fast Varys abandons her cause and seems to have Tyrion on the fence to as well. What has Jon done to prove himself a better leader ? He died in a mutiny after being elected. He would have died again if not for Sansa. His leadership didn't kill the Night King (in fact it gave the Night King the opportunity to pull down the Wall).

By the time Missandie (and only Missandei) gets captured from the middle of the sea and the rest of the team lands onshore, Dany is stuck in the end of a plotline that is dragging her character through the mud. I felt her rage at the end but it also falls flat. I'm so hopeful that she doesn't deteriorate even further next episode and actually comes up with a smart way to take King's Landing without a ton of bloodshed. The writers are taking a crucial aspect of the book - round characters that change the way we feel about them during their arcs -and perverting it here. Given all that Dany has lost unnecessarily, I don't think her rage is unreasonable. Do I want her to turn all of King's Landing to ash ? No, but I also get it.

Jon

Jon, you could have spoken up for your Queen at the feast. You could have said that she was the one who rode dragons to battle. That she deserves the praise for aiding the North. He could have also considered, given his new understanding of the things Ned Stark did, that Sansa and Arya did not need to know his heritage. Ned clearly didn't think anyone needed to know. Also, Ghost deserved better! Why isn't Winterfell better protected from the likes of Bronn? He's clearly a Southron guy walking around with a cross bow.

I think this is all I can muster to write at this point.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Post by Milkshake08 » 09 May 2019, 05:40

This show sucks now. I've said it a lot, but the writers have no idea how to put the pieces that GRRM has given them together. This last episode was a travesty regarding the women. Every single one except maybe Arya had a wildly out of character line/moment/reaction, and all were made to look catty, pathetic, or crazy. Not a good look. And then Cersei doesn't take out her main threat when she easily could? And Dany doesn't just, I don't know FLY AROUND THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BOATS and light them all on fire? This episode was as dumb as the one where Jon Snow and the gang stole a White Walker and plot holes ensued.

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