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Excalibur #13

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Flapflop
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Excalibur #13

Post by Flapflop » 21 Oct 2020, 10:23

In a nutshell:
Spoiler: show
Jamie, Betsy and Brian go to otherworld to fetch the Starlight Sword. Brian and Bestsy fight over who wil be Captain Britain (i have a feeling its staged for Saturnyne and all part of the plan). Jamie gets attacked by the Captain Britain Corpse, kills the Jubilee version. Betsy destroys the Amulet and Brian turns into Captain Avalon. Betsy is imprisoned because she destroyed the amulet. Satrunyne tries to seduce Brian and gives him the Starlight Sword. Jamie frees Betsy and sneaks into Saturnynes bedroom. Brian exposes himself as playing a long and both Betsy and Brian join with the other swords
Not peticular outstanding fetch story, though
Spoiler: show
our heroes fooled Saturnyne good in this one
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Gremlin » 21 Oct 2020, 10:39

I rather enjoyed this issue. Despite being part of a crossover this issue focused on the Excalibur storylines that have been brewing in the series since the start.
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 21 Oct 2020, 10:51

Gremlin wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 10:39
I rather enjoyed this issue. Despite being part of a crossover this issue focused on the Excalibur storylines that have been brewing in the series since the start.
Which make sense given the book and writer are both part of the foundation of the crossover...
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by das_boot » 21 Oct 2020, 12:54

Yeah, this felt like it moved the plot of the title AND the crossover along well. Nice to see that as much as Saturnyne seems to be in control here, she’s absolutely just as vulnerable to the unforeseen as our heroes are, and I feel that’s clutch going into this.

BETRAYAL COUNT: Brian fooling Saturnyne, Jamie seemingly still putting fealty to Saturnyne above familial bonds only to be Betsy’s rescuer here. It continues the plot beat from Marauders that Jamie’s very much a loose cannon, I feel (as we’d expect).
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 21 Oct 2020, 13:38

I liked this issue because it re-established the best parts of Brian. And I don’t think we ever got alot of X-stories with all 3 siblings on the same side. So this was dope...

I actually have liked the format of the crossover so far...the issues focusing on the swordbearers has allowed for smaller character-focused stories in the middle of something big. And here it was done masterfully. But I know sword-quest has bored some, I’ve liked this alot.
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Fenix » 21 Oct 2020, 13:56

Im sorry Im (again) the voice of discontent but while the issue moved the plot forward and offered some good moments it still feels troubling for some reasons.
1. Jubilee/Gambit/Rogue/Rictor Captain Britain Corps were acting like mind controlled more than the characters presented some issues ago, in my humble opinion. Maybe there is a reason for that but we continue getting lots of plot devices and explanations that can be reduced to "just because I say so".
2. Betsy's argument with Brian about the sword and the amulet is not exactly NEW, Betsy's attitude and behavior is really troubling to me and she was not aware of her brothers' plan so she was being pretty natural and sincere which is somehow a big departure from whatever Betsy was before Excalibur #1.
3. Seeing how much they keep trying on removing the butterfly effect from Betsy replacing it with... that... it just hurts.
4. If Kitty is a ninja thanks to Ogun and considering telepaths never forget anything Im struggling to see Betsy lose any kind of martial arts she used to master. Yes, she has a new body and we all know how muscular memory works so it is possible this new body is not as "sharp" and skilled as her asian body (well, kwannon's body) yet it shouldn't be any issue if she trains regularly and her body musculature gets back in shape.
Martial arts is not all about hitting but about using your foes' strenght against themselves and dodge/block their attacks, so no matter if she is not at her 100% she should be bloody dangerous.
It feels her tk sword and shield have mostly replaced any other skills she used to have, not even mind tricks or illusions, not a psychic knife...
Am I alone in this? Are you all enjoying this 180º transformation?
Betsy looks like a brand new character more than a character getting developments.

Anyway, Im not sure I like Brian's new codename or costume, I think the previous costume was nearly perfect as it merged his original costume with some other new elements and calling himself Lionheart as Kelshey did previously could have been fitting.

:roll:

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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 21 Oct 2020, 14:43

Why do you say Betsy didn’t know about the plan?

And why do you think they were acting mind-controlled? I only ask because we got like very little with them, so how can you really say anything about their characterization?

Also telepaths never forget anything?

Her fighting style has just changed in accordance with her change in not just body but station in life. She is a knight in alot of ways and fighting as such. Her lack of finesse attacks isn’t new (I mean here what exactly did you expect her to do Brian?), and I’m trying to see what makes it such a departure now and not like all them times she just only used the psychic knife and kicks. It seems like the issue is with her no longer being ninja and being a knight, which have just different visual representations of their fighting style.
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by das_boot » 21 Oct 2020, 15:02

@BC— I think what Fenix is alluding to is the scene just before Onslaught (I believe) where Jean tells Cyclops that she never has a perfect memory due to being a telepath. I don’t remember this ever being referenced before or since, whether it’s something specific to Jean as an Omega level mutant, or if it was a plot point that was supposed to have been seeded and then picked up again later down the line, but it was definitely mentioned at least once.

As for the 180 in character... I have to admit, I don’t necessarily see it. Psylocke’s been using psychic weaponry for some time now and I feel like her assuming the mantle of CB... that’s a lot to take on. I feel like Howard’s seeding plot beats here of Betsy having to juggle being CB whilst also being a mutant of Krakoa and what both of those things mean to her, but I don’t really see anything here that’s wildly out of character for her
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Fenix » 21 Oct 2020, 15:17

Blackcyclops wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 14:43
Why do you say Betsy didn’t know about the plan?

And why do you think they were acting mind-controlled? I only ask because we got like very little with them, so how can you really say anything about their characterization?

Also telepaths never forget anything?

Her fighting style has just changed in accordance with her change in not just body but station in life. She is a knight in alot of ways and fighting as such. Her lack of finesse attacks isn’t new (I mean here what exactly did you expect her to do Brian?), and I’m trying to see what makes it such a departure now and not like all them times she just only used the psychic knife and kicks. It seems like the issue is with her no longer being ninja and being a knight, which have just different visual representations of their fighting style.
Betsy didn't know about Brian or Jamie's plan, she found out Jamie wanted to help her when she was imprisoned.
And she only found out about Brian's involvement when he shouted "Betsy take it now!"

In regards of these alternate Captain Britain and they acting weird:
When they were introduced they were nearly identical versions from our characters that Jamie created branching our reality, at least that's how I understood that issue. The issue ended with Betsy dying and them becoming Captain Britains.
So if Jamie kills CB Jubilee and Rogue CB answer is just "Death to Mad King Jamie" then I feel something is not exactly right.
Also... who freed them? They were imprisoned as well but somehow they managed to get free...

I can't just reference an specific issue right now but Im sure it has been said several times in different books that telepaths do have the ability to recall any knowledge or memory at their will as they do master their own mind.
I can try to find some references later on, but if anybody can drop it for us it would be awesome.

And finally, I think the best Betsy ever shown was during Disassembled.
She was not as ninja as she used to be, but it could easily be explained as this new body doesn't have any muscular memory acting in harmony with her own adquired martial arts, making her less efficient than previously.
However she used the sword and shield, her telekinesis, her full telepathy, her psychic knife, mind tricks and illusions... everything, her whole repertoire.
Becoming CB meant Betsy not only stopped displaying her butterfly effect or using her Psylocke codename but also dropping her psychic knife, most of her mind tricks, showing a limited telekinesis and focusing extremely in a tk sword and shield that reduces considerably her power range.
And this is even worse as till this issue she was wearing the Amulet of Right which was providing her with enhanced class 90-100 tm strenght, near invulnerability (without her tk shield) and flight (without using her telekinesis).

Its not that I like or I dislike her knight approach, my issue is that I dont find a good and real explanation for Betsy being clearly written as a much less powerful character than she should be.
While in Disassembled they were already setting up Betsy exploring new weapons they were careful enough to still keep her power levels as they are meant to be, this hasn't happened in Excalibur and Im now wondering how is it possible you don't see it as clear as I do.

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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 21 Oct 2020, 16:18

Betsy didn't know about Brian or Jamie's plan, she found out Jamie wanted to help her when she was imprisoned.
And she only found out about Brian's involvement when he shouted "Betsy take it now!"
Oh I thought you meant...never mind lol that was my fault.
In regards of these alternate Captain Britain and they acting weird:
When they were introduced they were nearly identical versions from our characters that Jamie created branching our reality, at least that's how I understood that issue. The issue ended with Betsy dying and them becoming Captain Britains.
So if Jamie kills CB Jubilee and Rogue CB answer is just "Death to Mad King Jamie" then I feel something is not exactly right.
Also... who freed them? They were imprisoned as well but somehow they managed to get free...
Well I’ll just say I think you’re reaching here. Sure we had an idea about who they were given their original start points but we have no idea what cruelties Saturnyne may have afflicted upon them or what type of memories were backfilled by Jamie’s creation of them. But that’s really not important because they only show up to slay Jamie here and really I don’t see how their actions just draws a big “mind controlled” or “written out of character” moment here. Seems a stretch...especially if your point of contention is Rogue saying death to Jamie after he totally killed their Corpsmen.
I can't just reference an specific issue right now but Im sure it has been said several times in different books that telepaths do have the ability to recall any knowledge or memory at their will as they do master their own mind.
I can try to find some references later on, but if anybody can drop it for us it would be awesome.
Das gave a reference for 1 issue and 1 moment about 1 person and not as a catchall “all telepaths have perfect recall”, so I’m not sure I buy it as a thing. We’ll just agree to disagree there until more evidence comes along.

As far as Betsy’s personality goes, see das’s post.

As far as her powers go, there’s a huge difference between Betst being less powerful and her having less powers. See I’d have to re-read all of Excalibur to say anything about the first but the second? Yeah I’d agree that she’s used less powers (again not new for her) but it’s not as if she’s used none of them. Also, we can’t really say how strong her CB was. Brian himself wasn’t always as strong as he became later in his career.
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Aeon » 21 Oct 2020, 16:23

I stall can't get over her lilac hair color.

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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by InsipidLust » 21 Oct 2020, 17:10

1. Betsy leaning into the use of just one of her powers at a time is very consistent with the character. When she was last resurrected prior to this, it was established that the power of one ability wanes when she uses the other and vise versa. This limitation is arguably one of the things that strikes a difference between a multi-tool psychic like Betsy and one like Jean (the latter can access both of her abilities without either waning, if I remember correctly).

2. Betsy’s butterfly effect has appeared in this book in various forms several times throughout the tenure of this book. That doesn’t really qualify as trying to get rid of it. I remember reading this same complaint a couple of issues ago while staring directly at a psychic butterfly manifestation on the pages of this very book.

3. Jean Grey mentioned that she had eidetic memory as a side effect of her telepathy during Lodbell’s run. Perhaps Uncanny X-Men #344. I’ll look up the story to confirm but I can’t remember if Jean said this was true of most telepaths or if she was simply referring to herself. In any case, telepathy rules seem to change in these books all the time.

4. I’ve brought this up many times (to the profound irritation of some of my peers I imagine) but I get the feeling that the current crop of X-Writers in general are leaning away from portraying so many characters as all-powerful one-person, world-breaking, mountain shattering armies in favor of portrayals that reduce the need for readers to wonder why the characters don’t simply shatter whatever happens to be the threat of the day like a mountain. We are, thus, a long way from Claremont’s 2000s era Mary Suing of Betsy and thank heavens for that.
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Fenix » 21 Oct 2020, 19:10

InsipidLust wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 17:10
1. Betsy leaning into the use of just one of her powers at a time is very consistent with the character. When she was last resurrected prior to this, it was established that the power of one ability wanes when she uses the other and vise versa. This limitation is arguably one of the things that strikes a difference between a multi-tool psychic like Betsy and one like Jean (the latter can access both of her abilities without either waning, if I remember correctly).

2. Betsy’s butterfly effect has appeared in this book in various forms several times throughout the tenure of this book. That doesn’t really qualify as trying to get rid of it. I remember reading this same complaint a couple of issues ago while staring directly at a psychic butterfly manifestation on the pages of this very book.

3. Jean Grey mentioned that she had eidetic memory as a side effect of her telepathy during Lodbell’s run. Perhaps Uncanny X-Men #344. I’ll look up the story to confirm but I can’t remember if Jean said this was true of most telepaths or if she was simply referring to herself. In any case, telepathy rules seem to change in these books all the time.

4. I’ve brought this up many times (to the profound irritation of some of my peers I imagine) but I get the feeling that the current crop of X-Writers in general are leaning away from portraying so many characters as all-powerful one-person, world-breaking, mountain shattering armies in favor of portrayals that reduce the need for readers to wonder why the characters don’t simply shatter whatever happens to be the threat of the day like a mountain. We are, thus, a long way from Claremont’s 2000s era Mary Suing of Betsy and thank heavens for that.
Your 1st point makes the character inconsistent.

That is not how Remender or Brisson/Rosenberg have written Betsy previously to DoX/Excalibur.
In fact, X-men Disassembled depicted a very skilled, powerful and resourceful Psylocke, no matter if she is not an omega telepath (like Jean) or omega telekinetic (like Exodus).
Being powerful and keeping all her traits didn't make her Phoenix or world-breaking/mountain shattering then, so it shouldn't now.
Also, It was clear that Betsy, either because of the infamous power swap with Jean or either she lacked any formal training in the use of her telekinesis, had a lot of raw power but no finesse.
Claremont really made a number about this and how he wrote her not only in Uncanny or in Exiles but as soon as Betsy came back during the Swords of the Braddocks/Sisterhood she was back into more normal power levels.
From then writers established Betsy as both telekinetic and telepath but specializing her fighting style mixing martial arts and telekinetic/psionic weapons that could be lethal or simply duplicate her psychic knife.
She had been pretty consistent since Utopia till she was killed off in Death of Wolverine.

Her last resurrection brought back her old body but also some other tricks she had not used that often for some time like tricking enemies into attacking each others, her psychic knife or variations (katana/sword), a new tk shield that probably helped her to focus her tk differently to how other telekinetics do (see Jean, Exodus...) and pretty much all of her repertoire.
It was noted that she stopped using martial arts per se and started using a different approach in fights but as I said in earlier posts it could be easily explained as this new body is not as "sharp" and skilled as her asian body (well, kwannon's body) and lacks of any muscular memory yet it shouldn't be any issue if she kept training regularly.
Martial arts is not all about hitting but about using your foes' strenght against themselves and dodge/block their attacks, so no matter if she is not at her 100% she should be bloody dangerous.

After reading your answers to this concrete subject, are we then happy to accept she has forgotten any martial arts and skills she did have prior to her resurrection?
Because Betsy using new tricks or weapons shouldn't mean she forget any previous powers and skills she had.
It's like Kitty, I am happy when they remember she is a ninja and doesn't really need her powers to be badass.

Your second point is right, I would have to read again the previous 12 issues but i think she stopped using the recognizable butterfly effect since issue 8, she does display some kind of psychic particles but its by no means her butterfly signature effect.

Point 3 is right but I think I have read it somewhere else, I wish @Monolith could help us in this matter.
But it is absolutely true that things tend to change so whatever is cannon today might not be the same in 5 years so...

And I already answered to point 4. We don't need to revisit Claremont's last run, if you just compare this Betsy to Disassembled Betsy you can already notice some key differences in such a short period of time.
Also, becoming CB is not exactly like she was now pyrokinetic or a teleporter... using the amulet of right immediately granted her with Brian's powers, why should Betsy be less strong or invulnerable than Brian when he was CB?
The main adjustment for Betsy should be that she doesn't need her tk to enhance her strenght as she should be able to grab a tree and use it as a dart effortlessly and her tk shield should just be another layer of protection.
I have been saying it since it happened, becoming CB should be a power upgrade making Betsy a powerhouse keeping her brother powers plus all her psychic might.
Jordan White compared it to Carol Danvers becoming Captain Marvel but Carol is as strong as ever and that is not exactly what we have seen so far.

Now that the amulet of right is destroyed and she has the Starlight sword... we will have to wait and see.

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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 21 Oct 2020, 19:17

Actually Remender didn’t have Betsy use telekinesis lol. I remember you bringing it up in a thread at the time lol and also Remender replying about it in an interview, saying in his mind he’s writing her as only a telepath.
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by das_boot » 21 Oct 2020, 22:32

Blackcyclops wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 19:17
Actually Remender didn’t have Betsy use telekinesis lol. I remember you bringing it up in a thread at the time lol and also Remender replying about it in an interview, saying in his mind he’s writing her as only a telepath.
Yeah, this. I’d struggle to think of when Remender had her use telekinesis.

Also, in the nicest possible way— I understand you being passionate and frustrated that no one seems to be in agreement with you (trust and believe, I ALWAYS seem to have a contrarian opinion, so I get it), but if you could dial the sass down from a 10 to maybe a 5, that would be great. No one is attacking you personally, but they’re raising points that counter what appears to be your cognitive bias here. We’re all susceptible to it, but you’re starting to come across as border-line combative here, and no one is coming for you, personally, but they’re explaining why they aren’t seeing the same thing as you (e.g.: you seem to be blaming Insipid for inconsistencies in Betsy’s powers when, his point was, that her inconsistent power levels are actually somewhat of a constant).

Let’s everyone take a breath and get back to discussing things rationally and calmly please.
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Aeon » 21 Oct 2020, 22:43

das_boot wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 22:32

Let’s everyone take a breath and get back to discussing things rationally and calmly please.
Tell that the guys in the HoX PoX DoX thread. They are killing each other with words.

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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by MichaelWagner » 22 Oct 2020, 00:57

I am lost on every issue of this title. So the Captain Britain Corp are NOT Gambit, Rogue, Jubilee and Rictor?

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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Gonzalo » 22 Oct 2020, 01:06

They are alternate reality versions of Gambit, Rogue, Jubilee and Rictor

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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Leo » 22 Oct 2020, 03:21

i remember reading that Betsy actually prefer hand-to-hand combat rather that just using her powers from a distance. I can't remember where I read this, but it was one of the reasons why she relished being in Kwannon's body. So I don't really mind her fighting style here.
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Oct 2020, 03:35

I don’t know if Betsy is less powerful now but she uses less powers than befor
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Fenix » 22 Oct 2020, 10:13

das_boot wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 22:32
Blackcyclops wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 19:17
Actually Remender didn’t have Betsy use telekinesis lol. I remember you bringing it up in a thread at the time lol and also Remender replying about it in an interview, saying in his mind he’s writing her as only a telepath.
Yeah, this. I’d struggle to think of when Remender had her use telekinesis.

Also, in the nicest possible way— I understand you being passionate and frustrated that no one seems to be in agreement with you (trust and believe, I ALWAYS seem to have a contrarian opinion, so I get it), but if you could dial the sass down from a 10 to maybe a 5, that would be great. No one is attacking you personally, but they’re raising points that counter what appears to be your cognitive bias here. We’re all susceptible to it, but you’re starting to come across as border-line combative here, and no one is coming for you, personally, but they’re explaining why they aren’t seeing the same thing as you (e.g.: you seem to be blaming Insipid for inconsistencies in Betsy’s powers when, his point was, that her inconsistent power levels are actually somewhat of a constant).

Let’s everyone take a breath and get back to discussing things rationally and calmly please.
I haven't felt personally attacked, not now or not ever here.
This is a comics forum where we discuss about comics and characters, I try to expose and expand my point of views but it's just that, nothing else.
Why would I blame InsipidLust for inconsistencies in Betsy's powers? :?

Your advice is cool but we were discussing things in a calmly manner, I don't think anybody here in this thread lost his/her temper yet.

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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by _Rick_ » 22 Oct 2020, 14:44

When it comes to the portrayal of characters in this book, it's important to keep in mind some of the themes that Howard has set up. She is approaching this team from a Dungeons and Dragons angle and that is reflected both in the writing and the art. Betsy has been "assigned" the role of Paladin. A ton of things in her characterization reflects that. That includes her fighting style.

Is that a good thing? Depends on your preferences I guess. Personally, while I like that Howard has a ton of ideas for this book, I feel like she is juggling a bit too many concepts around and things don't always come together as nicely as they should. I can certainly understand Fenix misgivings about Betsy but they're not the main issue with this title for me. Even just talking about powersets, Rictor's being made into a "druid" (another DnD class) is a bit more egregious to me. Specially considering that everything Rictor has done so far could have easily been done by Meggan without having to change the character. Meggan is an elemental that can manipulate rock and lava (amongst other things). Meggan is sensitive to magic. Meggan is linked to Britain. Meggan can channel energies from people (like she did with Brian in order to destroy the lighthouse the first time). Meggan is also naïve enough to trust -A- and has a reason to be involved already. Using her would have streamlined the whole ritual stuff giving more time for other plotlines to breathe (like the alternate Captain Britains for instance).

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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Fenix » 22 Oct 2020, 19:13

_Rick_ wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 14:44
When it comes to the portrayal of characters in this book, it's important to keep in mind some of the themes that Howard has set up. She is approaching this team from a Dungeons and Dragons angle and that is reflected both in the writing and the art. Betsy has been "assigned" the role of Paladin. A ton of things in her characterization reflects that. That includes her fighting style.

Is that a good thing? Depends on your preferences I guess. Personally, while I like that Howard has a ton of ideas for this book, I feel like she is juggling a bit too many concepts around and things don't always come together as nicely as they should. I can certainly understand Fenix misgivings about Betsy but they're not the main issue with this title for me. Even just talking about powersets, Rictor's being made into a "druid" (another DnD class) is a bit more egregious to me. Specially considering that everything Rictor has done so far could have easily been done by Meggan without having to change the character. Meggan is an elemental that can manipulate rock and lava (amongst other things). Meggan is sensitive to magic. Meggan is linked to Britain. Meggan can channel energies from people (like she did with Brian in order to destroy the lighthouse the first time). Meggan is also naïve enough to trust -A- and has a reason to be involved already. Using her would have streamlined the whole ritual stuff giving more time for other plotlines to breathe (like the alternate Captain Britains for instance).
I couldn't have said it better.
Meggan would have been nearly perfect, she even had a "druid" costume when she was Gloriana.

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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Oct 2020, 19:21

_Rick_ wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 14:44
When it comes to the portrayal of characters in this book, it's important to keep in mind some of the themes that Howard has set up. She is approaching this team from a Dungeons and Dragons angle and that is reflected both in the writing and the art. Betsy has been "assigned" the role of Paladin. A ton of things in her characterization reflects that. That includes her fighting style.

Is that a good thing? Depends on your preferences I guess. Personally, while I like that Howard has a ton of ideas for this book, I feel like she is juggling a bit too many concepts around and things don't always come together as nicely as they should. I can certainly understand Fenix misgivings about Betsy but they're not the main issue with this title for me. Even just talking about powersets, Rictor's being made into a "druid" (another DnD class) is a bit more egregious to me. Specially considering that everything Rictor has done so far could have easily been done by Meggan without having to change the character. Meggan is an elemental that can manipulate rock and lava (amongst other things). Meggan is sensitive to magic. Meggan is linked to Britain. Meggan can channel energies from people (like she did with Brian in order to destroy the lighthouse the first time). Meggan is also naïve enough to trust -A- and has a reason to be involved already. Using her would have streamlined the whole ritual stuff giving more time for other plotlines to breathe (like the alternate Captain Britains for instance).

Hmmm...true.

But using Rictor and not Meggan mean we don’t have to go through the “married woman is kind of falling for other trope”, whereas the with single Rictor, any romantic tension can sit alone and not have to be burdened by that.

Even if I don’t necessarily think Rictor like wants to bone Apoccy (or vice versa) there is an interesting dynamic to their relationship that feels like something real obvious for a character like Meggan. It’s more unexpected coming from Rictor (not entirely tbh) and because Apoccy isn’t all primal as he usually is, there is some nobility in him and so the relationship has some authenticity to it.
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_Rick_
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Re: Excalibur #13

Post by _Rick_ » 22 Oct 2020, 21:29

Some things would be dropped for sure. That goes with the point I was making though. There is such an abundance of ideas that they're not all having as much play as they should. Some plot threads need more screen time to be fully developed. Sometimes less is more.

I know that the romantic angle is popular with many but I'm not fully convinced the relationship between -A- and Rictor is supposed to be read romantically yet. When Rachel invaded -A-'s mind in X-factor 4, she commented on his choice of "avatars" for her voice. One was Rictor. The other ones were his children. If -A- saw Rictor in a romantic way, wouldn't he associate him with Genesis rather than his descendants? If it is a father-son dynamic, there could have been a father-daughter one just as easily.

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