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Hellions #5

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Blackcyclops
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Hellions #5

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Oct 2020, 12:26

I know for a fact half of you are going to hate this chapter...Me? I actually laughed out loud at least three times lol...it was a reprieve from sword searching too. So there goes that for people who don’t like sword-searching.
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Jesse James II
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Jesse James II » 14 Oct 2020, 13:03

I liked it too. I think Mr S was hilarious.
It was indeed a welcome change from all the sword searching and actually the mission does make sense.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Oct 2020, 13:49

Its also prolly the most direct example of the Otherworld data pages applying to the story too.
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Usernamenotimportant
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 14 Oct 2020, 17:52

This was the absolutely brilliant and hilarious.

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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Oldmanlogan79 » 14 Oct 2020, 18:12

Seeing Havok repeating more than once that it is not possible to return from death being the same person if they fall into Otherworld, makes me think of that image of Alex as a child wearing the uniform that we saw in those promos of HOX/POX---

I found the issue very cool and the artist was quite good !! (Actually, she draws like if you mix Larraz and Silva)
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Flapflop » 14 Oct 2020, 19:02

Oldmanlogan79 wrote:
14 Oct 2020, 18:12
Seeing Havok repeating more than once that it is not possible to return from death being the same person if they fall into Otherworld, makes me think of that image of Alex as a child wearing the uniform that we saw in those promos of HOX/POX---
Knowing Hickman that could be possible, already teasing for us before Hox/Pox the end of some characters in XoS.

This was a hilarious issue. Sinister probably has a secret agenda on this mission. Big question now ofcourse
Spoiler: show
who won the rock, scissors paper contest. The 'real' Sinister or his clone
"There are some things you're better off not knowing. Believe me. You keep this up and soon...bang bang...you'll cry Havok!."

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Tessa1984
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Tessa1984 » 14 Oct 2020, 19:19

I don't understand why they've decided not to resurrect anybody for the time being. Only those who die on Otherworld can't be brought back. So why stop all resurrections?

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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Oct 2020, 19:27

Tessa1984 wrote:
14 Oct 2020, 19:19
I don't understand why they've decided not to resurrect anybody for the time being. Only those who die on Otherworld can't be brought back. So why stop all resurrections?

Look back to the datapage from X-Factor. They point out that after all the eggs are destroyed, they had to review everything (that takes time) and then restart up everything (that takes times).

So it’s not that they stopped just for no reason. They stopped, temporarily mind you, so they can set back up the system.

And this isn’t some interpretation this is what Hope says in her report and then kind of reiterated here when they say the resurrection process is just on hold, but not stopped.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Oct 2020, 19:28

Betrayal count: Empath kind of betrays alot of people and then Magneto sorta betrays Sinister...
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Fenix » 14 Oct 2020, 20:31

Hellions continue to be pure gold. Its that movie you didnt want to watch and you didnt expect to like but then you end absolutely loving it.

Sinister does have his own agenda and his own cloning protocols that work independently from Krakoa and The Five so this opens up to whatever Wells/Hickman want to do later on, no matter if we talk about Maddy or other possible character deaths during the crossover.

Empath here is a total jackass, he hates everybody and he acts like a spoiled brat... more like he is a teen again (as seen during his original Hellions tenure) not exactly the young man he was during the Utopia era or the young man who wanted to change and redeem himself when he was dating Magma (to be worthy of her affection).

The issue is really funny, it pays attention to many details and continuity and Sinister really steals the show.
Its really funny how Sinister acts like a "worried father" when he tells Magneto that Polaris is not a good influence to Alex... it made me laugh!

While I can see Wells have a story to tell about Nanny and Orphan Maker I tend to see them as the expendable in this team.
Kwannon/Psylocke together with Havok, Wildchild and Greycrow form a very formidable and interesting group that could perfectly work as a strike/cover ops team if you add other characters to the mix.
Empath... well, I have mixed feelings.

Another thing I was not sure about was when they were intercepted in Otherworld.
Sinister does, or should have, some telepathic abilities and Kwannon does have Betsy's powerset including the telepathy.
Why did they rely on Empath SO MUCH?

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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Blackcyclops » 14 Oct 2020, 20:53

I didn’t see a teenager...I saw a very very privileged young man. An exaggerated version of Donald Trump Jr...so yes, not as reformed as the guy who wanted Magma but after reading his psych-eval, this fits more with what is a product of his powers.
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Magnus » 14 Oct 2020, 22:17

I know a lot of people dislike the current take on Sinister, but I love it. I too laughed several times at this issue. And while it seems like a very risky idea (sending Sinister and his misfit toys to do a mission requiring stealth is a very poor choice) I'm interested in seeing where their mission takes them...

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Re: Hellions #5

Post by das_boot » 14 Oct 2020, 23:16

Blackcyclops wrote:
14 Oct 2020, 19:28
Betrayal count: Empath kind of betrays alot of people and then Magneto sorta betrays Sinister...
AHEM. Betrayal counts are my thing, and you missed two. FASHION betrayed Sinister, due to his lack of cape, and less seriously, Jamie betrayed the party by giving them the unicorn that was originally from Saturnyne.

I loved this. This was FUNNY! It was really bloody funny! I really enjoyed Sinister and co in Otherworld and this just felt so much like the episodes of Angel where the team ended up in The Host’s dimension! Empath as Trump— I totally see it. I kind of love the antagonism between him and Grey-Cow (as is his new name) because you KNOW Empath’s going to end up sliced in half by the end of this caper. I just loved it. Awesome ❤️
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Magnus » 14 Oct 2020, 23:55

Betrayal count: BC betrays das_boot

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Leo
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Leo » 15 Oct 2020, 02:51

^Oh snap Lol.

I too love this. Sassy Sinister is the bomb! And I have to say, I also love Exodus being the foil to Sinister in the QC. I laughed out so much reading the council meeting scenes. The plot is a nice (and logical) way to get the Hellions involved in this crossover, and I'm curious to see how they will fare in Otherworld.
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by das_boot » 15 Oct 2020, 05:50

Magnus wrote:
14 Oct 2020, 23:55
Betrayal count: BC betrays das_boot

And honestly, just how dare everyone
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Flapflop » 15 Oct 2020, 08:11

Fenix wrote:
14 Oct 2020, 20:31
Another thing I was not sure about was when they were intercepted in Otherworld.
Sinister does, or should have, some telepathic abilities and Kwannon does have Betsy's powerset including the telepathy.
Why did they rely on Empath SO MUCH?
Maybe

Because Sinister doesn't trust Kwannon

and
Spoiler: show
because this is the "cloned" Sinister who lost the toss that doesn't has those powers :-)
Something else:

Sinister having his own cloning facility could bring the story again on the route of the bleak future of former Moira's lives.

And, dare to ask, whats with all the Betrayal counts lately? I don't and haven't read all post on this forum but is it a game of finding the betrayer on Krakoa?

Betrayal count myself for having to ask it :lol:
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Cable » 15 Oct 2020, 10:37

Count me as one who is not a fan of Mr Sinister as a jackass buffoon as opposed to someone who is, well...sinister.

But there is no doubt Wells can write a pretty funny issue. And it is nice to see a turn in the story that breaks the fetch quest mold, even if this mission is almost certain to fail (can you imagine everyone gathering the swords and then it just gets cancelled lol?)
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Fenix » 15 Oct 2020, 11:08

Flapflop wrote:
15 Oct 2020, 08:11
Fenix wrote:
14 Oct 2020, 20:31
Another thing I was not sure about was when they were intercepted in Otherworld.
Sinister does, or should have, some telepathic abilities and Kwannon does have Betsy's powerset including the telepathy.
Why did they rely on Empath SO MUCH?
Maybe

Because Sinister doesn't trust Kwannon

and
Spoiler: show
because this is the "cloned" Sinister who lost the toss that doesn't has those powers :-)
Something else:

Sinister having his own cloning facility could bring the story again on the route of the bleak future of former Moira's lives.

And, dare to ask, whats with all the Betrayal counts lately? I don't and haven't read all post on this forum but is it a game of finding the betrayer on Krakoa?

Betrayal count myself for having to ask it :lol:
But Kwannon is secretly working for Sinister so its kind of implied she does what he commands (mostly) so Kwannon should be able to do whatever Empath does, or better.
Im not sure about Empath's powers. I always thought he needed to stay close and using his powers to manipulate others, but Im guessing there are hints he surpassed that limit time ago and he can cause a lasting effect even if he is not around or using his powers.
But he is not able to delete/edit anybody's memories and Saturnyne's soldiers can (and possibly) compromise the whole task sooner than later if Kwannon doesn't make her magic, which she seemingly didn't.
Blackcyclops wrote:
14 Oct 2020, 20:53
I didn’t see a teenager...I saw a very very privileged young man. An exaggerated version of Donald Trump Jr...so yes, not as reformed as the guy who wanted Magma but after reading his psych-eval, this fits more with what is a product of his powers.
It was not exactly what I meant.
I don't think he is acting exactly as a teenager version of himself but as he behaved when he was part of the Hellions during the OG NM run.
But you are right as he is probably his own biggest victim, his own powers are a problem for his personal development.

However, in another era he would have been diagnosed, supported and helped to improve his condition, something the new Krakoa doesn't really care too much nowadays.

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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Oct 2020, 11:18

And how do you see that?

Unless you mean they would force the man to be “helped” and changed. I remember when Xavier tried that with Sabretooth and you’re right, it ended perfectly lol. Let’s not let nostalgia change history lol

You can’t force a person to be helped against their will. There is nothing here that indicates Empath wants to be changed or even sees himself as a problem. So you can’t say, and I get it you hate Krakoa and all that, what the current system would or wouldn’t do for him since he isn’t shown wanting to be helped (fyi we just saw the New Mutants squad help a young mutant after rescuing her). He was diagnosed (remember the datapage from the first issue?) btw.
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Fenix » 15 Oct 2020, 13:29

Blackcyclops wrote:
15 Oct 2020, 11:18
And how do you see that?

Unless you mean they would force the man to be “helped” and changed. I remember when Xavier tried that with Sabretooth and you’re right, it ended perfectly lol. Let’s not let nostalgia change history lol

You can’t force a person to be helped against their will. There is nothing here that indicates Empath wants to be changed or even sees himself as a problem. So you can’t say, and I get it you hate Krakoa and all that, what the current system would or wouldn’t do for him since he isn’t shown wanting to be helped (fyi we just saw the New Mutants squad help a young mutant after rescuing her). He was diagnosed (remember the datapage from the first issue?) btw.
You are missunderstanding me.

Sabretooth's problem is not caused by his powers, he is plain and simply a psychopath.
They tried to humanize him after Wolverine seriously damaged his brain.

Empath's problem is caused directly because how his powers work and how they interacted with his personal development as his powers manifested when he was a teenager and he hasn't even learned how to manage and cope with his own feelings when he started manipulating others around him.
From a clinic point of view, Empath might not be aware he needs help and he might not want it but he needs it.
So far what we have is a white privileged young man who has not any adult emotional intelligence as his own powers prevented him from coping with rejection, denial or other very important feelings we must deal with in order to grow up and develop our personalities.

So Empath has been correctly diagnosed but it seems nobody is really doing any move to put him in any kind of therapy so he grows up and deals with his mental disorder.
Instead he is being used (and killed off) in an expendable team.

Considering Emma Frost really cared about the Hellions, all of them, and she had a funny teacher/student relationship with him it would make perfect sense if she was interested in helping him, no matter if he doesn't fancy any therapy.

It's not like I don't like Krakoa, I just have mixed feelings and I try to stay critic and grounded, some stuff is cool and some other details are just harder to understand or swallow.

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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Oct 2020, 14:08

Cable wrote:
15 Oct 2020, 10:37
Count me as one who is not a fan of Mr Sinister as a jackass buffoon as opposed to someone who is, well...sinister.
I agree he’s a jackass and less sinister but is he a buffoon? Buffoon implies he’s inept and kinda bad at his job. Which considering he’s on the council, his cloning is integral to the society and he has his own backroom plans and deals, is he any less competent than he was in his more Sinister incarnations?

I mean I agree he’s way less mustache-twirling mad scientist (like he was in the 90s) or creepy evil (like he was in the 80s) than he is now since Gillen re-introduced him.
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Cable » 15 Oct 2020, 15:51

They are on a mission that could determine the fate of the world and he is genuinely concerned about whether he has a cape.
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Oct 2020, 16:20

Cable wrote:
15 Oct 2020, 15:51
They are on a mission that could determine the fate of the world and he is genuinely concerned about whether he has a cape.

Yet nothing he’s done so far has not messed up that mission (in fact, since he and Psylocke seemed to have been unable to do so, him getting Empath to save them was a pivotal move)...his concern about the cape is a (great, imo) joke but it’s still not something that has impacted their effectiveness.

Again, he’s definitely a joker...in the similar but grander vein as some versions of Mr. Mxlpspt (however you spell the little 5th dimension imp dude) or Bat-mite but with a touch of Venture Bros. Monarch BUT, and this is key to him not being a joke like say some versions of Kite-Man or any of the Losers that Spidey used to fight, he still is (so far any way) succeeding at things.

Now is this an act similar to how Spidey uses quips or Moon Knight the white costume? Idk...but so far he’s faring probably more successfully now than he did as the creepy chalky skinned guy with Mister in his name.
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Re: Hellions #5

Post by das_boot » 15 Oct 2020, 21:27

Flapflop wrote:
15 Oct 2020, 08:11


And, dare to ask, whats with all the Betrayal counts lately? I don't and haven't read all post on this forum but is it a game of finding the betrayer on Krakoa?

Betrayal count myself for having to ask it :lol:
BC is the Exodus to my Sinister.

No, for reals, the ten of swords (X of Swords) in tarot is a card that signifies betrayal. And there’s been the running theme of betrayal in the first few issues so I thought it would be cool as hell to keep hunting them down until SOMEONE decided to try to dethrone me in a title where Exodus made a play against Sinister.

BlackCyclops is the Exodus to my Sinister. Hands off my cape you fiend.
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