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Marauders #13

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Blackcyclops
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Marauders #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 07 Oct 2020, 14:27

Storm reigns supreme!!!!

It’s probably not going to sit well with some people, but I like these first few chapters being so singularly character focused. It allows for some interesting dynamics to come to play and for Storm, gives her a needed opportunity to be all her awesomeness.
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by InsipidLust » 07 Oct 2020, 15:38

This issue is a great reminder that even as Storm has become tremendously powerful and connected over the years, she remains one of the X-Men's richest and best "perspective" characters. Reading the world through her eyes adds a depth of thought and feeling that reminds me of X-Men narratives at their best.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 07 Oct 2020, 15:43

I just love how Duggan time and again gets underestimated for how well he actually can write a relatability into a character. People get caught up in his absurdity because Duggan (more than alot of other writers) feels like he enjoys writing comics aka he embraces the weird and frankly silly things you can do in a comic but he’s never afraid of having a layer of pathos and character depth underneath it. It’s why his Deadpool run is still the best (and really one of the best solo series runs of all time.
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das_boot
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by das_boot » 07 Oct 2020, 16:11

This was wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. The art was right, the characterisation was right and as much as this was written and due to be released before his passing, this felt like a really lovely little tribute to Chadwick Boseman with it being Wakanda-centric. This title really does well with Kate’s involvement being diminished (for me, at least).

BETRAYAL COUNT
Spoiler: show
DUH. Storm had to choose between her mutant family and the Wakandan royals who still clearly view her as family. She made her choice but HAD to betray someone.
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_Rick_
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by _Rick_ » 07 Oct 2020, 17:47

This definitely continues the trend of the book being better when Kitty takes a backseat.

Still, as much as I appreciate more Storm, it felt like a bit of a waste. Feels like a lot more could have been done with the relationship between Krakoa and Wakanda. In House of X #5, it was stated that Wakanda (and the countries that are an economic protectorate of Wakanda) are to be considered "naturally adversarial". That was not the impression here. The impact of Storm's decision is also a bit lessened by the few final pages. Shuri really made it seem like there's no way T'challa could let Storm take the blade due to the major consequences for Wakanda... and then he does so publicly and without needing much convincing. Also Shuri talks of an "act of War" yet Storm looks sure that they have not lost allies. I get that they probably wanted to make Black Panther a wise, noble and reasonable King (because of Chadwick Boseman's death) but his words about Storm and Wakandans being her people made me roll my eyes considering how petty he was about that when he announced their divorce.

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Re: Marauders #13

Post by das_boot » 07 Oct 2020, 18:09

I always read their divorce as being more political than their marriage ever was. There’s no way that after Namor attacked Wakanda in the name of mutants that their marriage could have been seen to do anything but weaken T’Challa’s rule. Whenever they’ve interacted since (that I’ve seen), they’ve never seemed to hate one another, and there actually seems to be a lot of love there— even when BP basically realised that Ororo was moving on and essentially begged her for it to be with anyone but Wolverine in WATX.

I’m not surprised by T’Challa here, and whether it was just me or not, I read this entire issue with the subtext of Ramonda and Shuri KNOWING that he couldn’t make the call objectively, and that they were going to attempt to make the call for him to protect him. They knew Storm had less than three days to retrieve the sword and asked her to wait “a few days”. They know Storm and Shuri certainly attempted to boldly make an attempt to play on Storm’s emotions to stop her— but I think that you can essentially read the entire interaction between the trio in the throne room as “we can guess why you’re here, we CLEARLY know which sword you need, and we CLEARLY cannot just hand it over to you, which well you know— and we also know you’re going to try and take it anyway, but we’d like to try and remind you that we still love you and support you”.

As for the element of Wakanda not supporting Krakoa... again, it’s a political thing. Wakanda is STILL the nation Namor attacked and regardless of how much of a great political alliance it would be for Krakoa to gain Wakanda’s actual backing, there’s no way that the average Wakandan citizen would back that play.
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Quick and Dead
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Quick and Dead » 07 Oct 2020, 18:21

Blackcyclops wrote:
07 Oct 2020, 15:43
I just love how Duggan time and again gets underestimated for how well he actually can write a relatability into a character. People get caught up in his absurdity because Duggan (more than alot of other writers) feels like he enjoys writing comics aka he embraces the weird and frankly silly things you can do in a comic but he’s never afraid of having a layer of pathos and character depth underneath it. It’s why his Deadpool run is still the best (and really one of the best solo series runs of all time.
Duggan is great but Vita Ayala actually wrote this issue.

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Aeon
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Aeon » 07 Oct 2020, 18:55

:lol: :lol:

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das_boot
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by das_boot » 07 Oct 2020, 19:15

Quick and Dead wrote:
07 Oct 2020, 18:21
Blackcyclops wrote:
07 Oct 2020, 15:43
I just love how Duggan time and again gets underestimated for how well he actually can write a relatability into a character. People get caught up in his absurdity because Duggan (more than alot of other writers) feels like he enjoys writing comics aka he embraces the weird and frankly silly things you can do in a comic but he’s never afraid of having a layer of pathos and character depth underneath it. It’s why his Deadpool run is still the best (and really one of the best solo series runs of all time.
Duggan is great but Vita Ayala actually wrote this issue.

THEY DID?! OMG. So glad I defended them against Leifeld on twitter
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 07 Oct 2020, 19:27

Quick and Dead wrote:
07 Oct 2020, 18:21
Blackcyclops wrote:
07 Oct 2020, 15:43
I just love how Duggan time and again gets underestimated for how well he actually can write a relatability into a character. People get caught up in his absurdity because Duggan (more than alot of other writers) feels like he enjoys writing comics aka he embraces the weird and frankly silly things you can do in a comic but he’s never afraid of having a layer of pathos and character depth underneath it. It’s why his Deadpool run is still the best (and really one of the best solo series runs of all time.
Duggan is great but Vita Ayala actually wrote this issue.
Oh I assumed the original writer of the series did, thanks for the catch QaD...

@boots: always defend against Liefeld! Always...
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_Rick_
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by _Rick_ » 07 Oct 2020, 19:37

das_boot wrote:
07 Oct 2020, 18:09
I always read their divorce as being more political than their marriage ever was. There’s no way that after Namor attacked Wakanda in the name of mutants that their marriage could have been seen to do anything but weaken T’Challa’s rule. Whenever they’ve interacted since (that I’ve seen), they’ve never seemed to hate one another, and there actually seems to be a lot of love there— even when BP basically realised that Ororo was moving on and essentially begged her for it to be with anyone but Wolverine in WATX.
Sure, there was political pressure but I was specifically thinking of the words used and the juxtaposition with this issue:
Then
Storm:They're MY PEOPLE too, T'Challa. And I want to help them rebuild, same as you.
Black Panther: They're NOT YOUR PEOPLE anymore.
(proceeds to tell her she's branded as an enemy of Wakanda and that he unilaterally annulled their marriage without even warning her)

Now
Storm:I am here so I can save MY PEOPLE.
Black Panther: YOUR PEOPLE? I remember a time when Wakandans were YOUR PEOPLE.
I know that it was a few years ago but this exchange deserved a well placed
Image

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 07 Oct 2020, 20:07

It was a side-eye but I understand the context of both interactions...

Either way, I thought it was a great issue...and felt warranted and full of emotion.
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by norwichchris » 07 Oct 2020, 21:04

Storm is awesome as always loved her interactions with Shuri??

Wonder who she will fight against any ideas??

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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Tessa1984 » 08 Oct 2020, 02:41

I appreciated this so much more than this week's WOLVERINE and X-FORCE installments, likely because I loathe Logan solo stories and this week we got two! Lol. But seriously, I'll take a Storm solo story featuring Wakandans every week. I should've realized a 24-part crossover that features 10 swords and appears to be heavily reminiscent of a video game (sorry, don't play, I'm sure there's better terminology I could've used!) would involve at least 10 stories featuring the various characters collecting said swords. But I didn't. Hoping they keep this crossover as interesting as this issue was!

Glad to see a quality focus on Storm for the first time in forever. I think her character was nailed. This was Claremont-era Storm.

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Re: Marauders #13

Post by manuel_mc89 » 08 Oct 2020, 03:52

This was a very, very good issue and i agree with Das about the implications here, Storm is haveing some very nice issues lately and im glad, considering how her voice was very absent at the begining of the Hickman era.

I did rolled my eyes about the mentions fo Wakanda never being against mutants, when there has been some bad blood a few times and Nehzno is an example of the prejudice that can exist in Wakanda, and if i remember correctly Storm wasnt welcomed by Wakandan's at first, given that she was an outsider.

This might be the first i've read from Vita, and im excited for their vision in New Mutants now.
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by tokenBG1009 » 08 Oct 2020, 20:31

A good Storm issue. The ending makes it feel more melodramatic than it needed to be though.

Storm: I need the blade today and T'Challa won't be back for days.
T'Challa: -Arrives within hours of being told-

Besides that, it's a beautiful and well written issue that if T'Challa never showed up for would've been near perfect. I have my normal squabbles of the X-Men "doing what they think is best" with no real regard to anyone else. Storm speaks of knowing her actions will cause strife, but she just HAS to do it. I'm betting, if she survives, we'll be back to them married as a way to quell unrest in Wakanda. Funny, I wrote this part second because...

As someone who has, without failure, HATED the Ororo/T'Challa marriage... Meh to them and their stupid relationship. From the moment it was announced I found it pretty disgusting. (Sidenote: I keep wanting to call it racist, but I don't think that's the right word.) While I WILL say I originally agreed with _Rick_ regarding how T'Challa ended the marriage, having gone back and read it I don't really find it that bad anymore. T'Challa's wordings VERY particular.

T: "Our marriage was ANNULLED by the High Priest of the Panther Tribe. You are not my wife anymore."
O: "The High Priest of the Panther Clan? But... YOU are the High Priest."
T: "Please do not come here again."

T'Challa, in this moment is trying to make it as impersonal as he can. It's Officer (Bob) Smith arresting Robert Smith Jr for robbery. It isn't Bob Smith arresting his son because he's doing it in his capacity of OFFICER Smith. He has a duty due to the mantle placed upon him as an officer. T'Challa is the High Priest, but T'Challa didn't annul the marriage. The High Priest did it.
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 08 Oct 2020, 20:39

Well said...
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by norwichchris » 08 Oct 2020, 21:10

I loved the idea of them being married felt it bought great depth to the characters and was a very optimistic view of the future. However as soon as Namor-Phoenix attacked Wakanda it was annulled as Storm was a member of the X-men at the time and they had been branded enemies of Wakanda.

So to avoid a civil war he annulled the marriage as token said it was he made it as impersonal as he could to spare his and Ororo's feelings. Yes it is true Wakanda is very isolationist and there is bad-blood between them and mutants for many reasons.

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Re: Marauders #13

Post by das_boot » 09 Oct 2020, 00:15

Token, I’m curious. Do you want to call it racist because it felt like Marvel marrying two of their most popular black-African characters and invented a backstory for them because they both happened to be black and African? I’m not coming at you for this, I’m actually really curious how you, as a person of colour, saw this and felt about it.

I have to admit, I DID feel a little like their marriage (while it kind of made sense in the comics) felt a little out of nowhere. I dunno. Maybe I’m being a really naive white boy here, but I actually quite liked the idea of Marvels arguably most prominent black African heroes being a power couple, but mostly because I feel like Storm’s more regal personality made her being an actual queen make sense.
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Magnus » 09 Oct 2020, 00:48

This was pretty good, at least from the perspective of letting Storm have the spotlight. She even got to play thief, an aspect of her background I wish she'd get to use more.

It did feel a bit weird that Storm very clearly explained that she did not have much time, but Shuri kept insisting that she just wait. Storm very clearly explained, many times, that she couldn't! And T'Challa showing up that same night was also... convenient. Das makes an interesting suggestion (assuming I'm understanding correctly) that Ramonda and Shuri were basically trying to force Storm into taking it (so Storm could have the sword, and Wakanda could save face), but I'm not sure I can really read that from the page here - I think Shuri was actually trying to stop her.

Also much better to have this all in one issue, even a larger one, than spread out over two like Wolverine's blade.

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Re: Marauders #13

Post by tokenBG1009 » 09 Oct 2020, 00:54

das_boot wrote:
09 Oct 2020, 00:15
Token, I’m curious. Do you want to call it racist because it felt like Marvel marrying two of their most popular black-African characters and invented a backstory for them because they both happened to be black and African? I’m not coming at you for this, I’m actually really curious how you, as a person of colour, saw this and felt about it.

I have to admit, I DID feel a little like their marriage (while it kind of made sense in the comics) felt a little out of nowhere. I dunno. Maybe I’m being a really naive white boy here, but I actually quite liked the idea of Marvels arguably most prominent black African heroes being a power couple, but mostly because I feel like Storm’s more regal personality made her being an actual queen make sense.
100% Yes.

If they'd had interactions between the two building up to a relationship and then a marriage? I probably still wouldn't be a big fan of it, but at least it'd feel less like a marketing ploy. It feels like someone went "Let's have a big event where we marry our two most iconic black characters." Then when asked how they'd build that relationship and when they wanted the marriage they answered "We'll worry about that later. Get the announcement out now!"

To be honest, I feel this way about ANY marriage of characters of diverse, aka PoC or LGBTQ+ origins.
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Oct 2020, 00:58

tokenBG1009 wrote:
09 Oct 2020, 00:54
das_boot wrote:
09 Oct 2020, 00:15
Token, I’m curious. Do you want to call it racist because it felt like Marvel marrying two of their most popular black-African characters and invented a backstory for them because they both happened to be black and African? I’m not coming at you for this, I’m actually really curious how you, as a person of colour, saw this and felt about it.

I have to admit, I DID feel a little like their marriage (while it kind of made sense in the comics) felt a little out of nowhere. I dunno. Maybe I’m being a really naive white boy here, but I actually quite liked the idea of Marvels arguably most prominent black African heroes being a power couple, but mostly because I feel like Storm’s more regal personality made her being an actual queen make sense.
100% Yes.

If they'd had interactions between the two building up to a relationship and then a marriage? I probably still wouldn't be a big fan of it, but at least it'd feel less like a marketing ploy. It feels like someone went "Let's have a big event where we marry our two most iconic black characters." Then when asked how they'd build that relationship and when they wanted the marriage they answered "We'll worry about that later. Get the announcement out now!"

To be honest, I feel this way about ANY marriage of characters of diverse, aka PoC or LGBTQ+ origins.
So Luke Cage and Jessica’s marriage was cool because one of them was white but Wiccan and Hulkling marrying is a problem?

Also, for what it’s worth, BP and Storm marriage was actually Reggie Hudlin’s idea (it was during the height of his career and he pitched it off hours to Joe Quesada when they met...I give him some leeway because he wrote and directed House Party).
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Oct 2020, 01:03

Magnus wrote:
09 Oct 2020, 00:48
This was pretty good, at least from the perspective of letting Storm have the spotlight. She even got to play thief, an aspect of her background I wish she'd get to use more.

It did feel a bit weird that Storm very clearly explained that she did not have much time, but Shuri kept insisting that she just wait. Storm very clearly explained, many times, that she couldn't! And T'Challa showing up that same night was also... convenient. Das makes an interesting suggestion (assuming I'm understanding correctly) that Ramonda and Shuri were basically trying to force Storm into taking it (so Storm could have the sword, and Wakanda could save face), but I'm not sure I can really read that from the page here - I think Shuri was actually trying to stop her.

Also much better to have this all in one issue, even a larger one, than spread out over two like Wolverine's blade.
I read it that way too...

And BP showing up at the last minute was what really bookends the story for me. It demonstrates that for all her rushing and heroic effort, she could’ve just waited...but hindsight is 20/20 and she had no idea he would return when he did. It shows that while Storm was acting heroically she still was tiptoeing on the line (a very CC-esque thing for Storm...and not just classic CC). And it allowed for a nice sendup for Chadwick Boseman (call me a softie but that meant the world to me).
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by das_boot » 09 Oct 2020, 01:09

@BC— at risk of sounding like I’m talking on behalf of Token... there’s a huge difference there. Luke was pretty much weaved into JJ’s story, from her inception. Wiccan and Hulkling are characters that we, the reader, have only ever known as a couple. That’s not a true comparison to the Storm/BP marriage and you’re more than intelligent enough to see that 😜

My annoyance was the Northstar/Kyle marriage. Kyle had shown up fleetingly in one issue of Uncanny, a short story during the Utopia era and then... basically, his wedding to JP...
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Marauders #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Oct 2020, 01:21

I mean that’s where I thought he was going with it but that final
Statement about “ANY marriage...” put a big question mark in my head. I’m going to chalk it up to weird wording and token was rushing lol
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