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X-Factor #4

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Blackcyclops
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X-Factor #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Sep 2020, 12:27

RIP Rockslide, Hello new Rockslide


So the prophecy...
From one womb came two...
A hero destined to brandish what the earth had swallowed, and an echo doomed to yearn for what the stars hath forsworn

Lost soul, an edge gained.
A lone wanderer returns to a forge left abalzed.

Sword in the stone, stationed in space.
A young man, born old, pilots a place.

A father forsaken, a husband betrayed.
An ancient treasure sharpens the death his children crave.

Friends-self, friends lost.
Out of one comes many, into many comes one.

Eight years, gone in seconds.
From a childhood lost comes a woman grown.
Her only friends were weapons: now her soul a blade hers alone.

Once goddess, once queen, one sword with which to split the sky in twain.
Vibranium inlaid, a tempest contained, she is the wrath of heavens wielding a legacy.

Ego death...
And broken stone...
Two wars waged by one champion alone.

So looks like we can count Polaris as someone of importance...

I again love the small moments (Monet continues to shine brightly! Or Emma’s response to Xavier...Hope taking a leadership role with the 5...even Magik’s last words were spot on).
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EphemeristX
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by EphemeristX » 30 Sep 2020, 15:44

Holy shit, this was so good. And in beating death, the X-Men have given death meaning again. How poetic.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Sep 2020, 15:52

Nice little Moira cameo...

I think that given what happened to the Muramasa Blade, Logan is going to give up more of his soul to reforge a new one...which probably isn’t a good thing.

And I’m almost certain the part about Warlock is about assimilation and might start to hint toward the (imo) big bad that is the Phalanx.
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MultipleMadrox
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by MultipleMadrox » 30 Sep 2020, 17:00

Blackcyclops wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 15:52
And I’m almost certain the part about Warlock is about assimilation and might start to hint toward the (imo) big bad that is the Phalanx.
Felt this way too. Excited to see where it goes. Besides this, I'm most excited to see what's up with Betsy and Brian's, which sounds pretty bleak, and also just for Storm to be front and center generally. The more Storm the better.

This really feels like it's going to be the best kind of crossover, where each individual book gets their moment to shine and we get to see some variety in important characters, settings, tone, etc.

Also, is Rictor going to solve this whole thing by helping Apocalypse move on from his old family? Shatterstar's off in Mojoworld not realizing someone is coming for his man lol

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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by norwichchris » 30 Sep 2020, 17:21

This is actually a really good issue i was very impressed do wonder though is Rockslide energy form still in otherworld? remember when he played the game with the Summoner he said he was an energy being and the rock was essentially a shell he could control and this has been confirmed in NXM as well.

I love Hope Summers and really want to see more of here we could have a Hope series instead of young Cable that would be more interesting. She always shines more solo like in AVX.

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roguenation
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by roguenation » 30 Sep 2020, 18:41

Was a great issue. Didnt love the $5 cost but it was a larger than normal issue.

Some things that stuck out to me:
Spoiler: show
They didnt identify 10 different persons for the swords, only 9 (including two for the twins), and no mention of Mags with the Cerebo sword. Glad to see they remember the additional cerebro helmet in the Moira No-Space.

Wonder who else will "die" in Otherworld . . . any guesses? Im guessing Warlock will. And thatll be part of the Phalanx storyline we first saw a hint in Pox/Hox.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Sep 2020, 18:57

Well I count 9 swords but 8 swordbearers...

Gorgon, Betsy, Brian, Cypher-Warlock, Storm, Cable, Illyana, Wolvie, Apoccy

But if we count Cyke with the Peak, that makes 9 swordbearers and 10 swords

Mags with the Cerebro sword might not be “official”...
Last edited by Blackcyclops on 30 Sep 2020, 19:57, edited 1 time in total.
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_Rick_
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by _Rick_ » 30 Sep 2020, 19:29

Sanctus sacrum. Sacred sacrifice
Image

ANYWAAAAY, it was a pretty dense issue which I liked. I did feel like the data pages could have been used better. They seemed to be repeating a ton of stuff that the dialogue awkwardly portrayed. They are the perfect mechanism for info dump. The swords still feel a bit gimmicky to me but I'll just roll with it. I just hope the next few issues aren't just a boring fetch quest for the missing swords.

I am a little bit upset about Santo. Particularly considering that the FCBD preview had Glob Herman in his place. I'd prefer if they had "rebooted" Glob's character instead. I don't even understand how they got Rockslide genetic material. As everyone repeatedly pointed out, he's just energy animating rocks. There should be no DNA. Glob still has some organs at least so it would make sense.

Speaking of making sense, I get that the writers had to figure out a way to up the stakes but I didn't buy the whole "if you die in Otherworld we can't bring you back" premise. If backup's from Otherworld are corrupted why not do a backup before they enter the portal and use that one instead? They don't have to backup right before death. I don't get the logic there. Sure they would have missing memories from the tournament but that's a really small price to pay, all things considered.

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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Sep 2020, 19:47

I liked the data pages about Otherworld, gave us more on the map of Otherworld and I love a good map.

And Santos had an organic rock body before he reformed his current body. So, since organic rock (like organic metal lol) is supposedly organic, I would think it would have organic material in it. Later Rockslide bodies when he started reforming would be all inorganic rock I can only assume.

As for resurrection, that’s not at all how I read that.

It isn’t that updates from Otherworld are just corrupted (Rictor wasn’t uploaded in Otherworld, he was uploaded from earlier...hence he had no memory of even going to Otherworld). It’s that by dying in Otherworld, you can’t bring them back as they are because the mystical and extra-dimensional nature of Otherworld impacts the resurrection process. Otherwise, why were the Five ALSO impacted and they aren’t connected to Cerebro.

I liked that it gave a different level of stakes to the story that O really liked.
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roguenation
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by roguenation » 30 Sep 2020, 19:56

@BC, I think you missed Cable in your count.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Sep 2020, 19:57

roguenation wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 19:56
@BC, I think you missed Cable in your count.

Thanks! Good catch
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by manuel_mc89 » 30 Sep 2020, 19:58

I thought it was a more mystical or reality altering situation, where like in Rictor's case, his back up wasform previously going to Otherworld, but in the case of Rockslide, the fact that he died over there meant that his being was altered from Otherworld and so his essence was lost to Otherworld and replaced by a new one from another reality or a composite of many Santo's. I have doubts, though:

- Why can't they pshychically upload that vessel with a previous backup, because that seems like something easily done (unless, like i said, the complication is mysticial, reality altering in nature).

-How can a Rockslide from another reality/composite of many not be "Santo", unless he comes from a place where he never had a family to name him.

-If he is a composite of many, the real Rockslide could be around there, so they can make him the dominant personality.

It sucks that Rockslide had to die like this, im not okay with this, and i hope we get a satisfactory page, or make that pages, of the New X-Men avenging Santo against the Summoner, with Anole delivering the final blow.

Edit:

Guys, yeah, just read this theory:

Ego death...
And broken stone...
Two wars waged by one champion alone.

That could easily be about Rockslide instead of Gorgon, his self has died, he is broken stone, and the two wars waged by one champion can apply to there being more than one Rockslide, one thats the composite and one that reforms in Otherworld.
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by _Rick_ » 30 Sep 2020, 20:12

Blackcyclops wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 19:47
As for resurrection, that’s not at all how I read that.

It isn’t that updates from Otherworld are just corrupted (Rictor wasn’t uploaded in Otherworld, he was uploaded from earlier...hence he had no memory of even going to Otherworld). It’s that by dying in Otherworld, you can’t bring them back as they are because the mystical and extra-dimensional nature of Otherworld impacts the resurrection process. Otherwise, why were the Five ALSO impacted and they aren’t connected to Cerebro.
I have to be honest... that makes even less sense to me.
Why would the resurrection depend on the place of death? They're essentially creating copies so it shouldn't matter. Also the resurrection worked fine until it came to the point of Xavier having to use Cerebro. Hope herself said to the Quiet Council that "The 5 can confirm that dying in Otherworld somehow corrupts a mutant's Cerebro backup." Why would it unless the backup was done when they were in Otherworld. The backup file shouldn't change unless you're replacing it with a new one. Xavier also took the blame by saying "I should have realized much sooner there could be potential limitations from which Cerebro could pull backups from Otherworld". Again this implies the problem is pulling a backup from Otherworld not with the previous ones. Why don't they simply avoid pulling backups from Otherworld? Maybe I'm being dense but I really don't get the logic.

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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by totaldarknessin » 30 Sep 2020, 20:14

another stellar issue. Not much to add; but I guess I kinda agree in that the explanation for why the resurrection process wouldn't work fell flat as everything is uploaded on This Earth in This 616 universe; so why would otherworld affect it; why would other cerebros be affected and why would the 5 be affected? that part doesn't make sense. Even if you go with the explanation that dying in otherworld means a permanent death to that character, the 5, and cerebro being affected wasn't' well explained.

By the way; Did Apocalypse die in this book? if was left open ended; his eyes was a blank slate; he didn't move at all and didn't respond to Xavier or Magneto. Speaking of which; I'm still on the fence with him dying so easily. the reasoning being; doesn't the externals dying strengthen the other remaining externals? or did that get bypass with them powering the gates? Second; Apocalypse is someone with so many powers including durability to resist getting blasted like that; and molecular mastering of himself to allow him to heal that hole he has. 3rd question is; does he even have the celestial armor? the reason that is important a question is; when resurrected; he presumptively is resurrected into his regular genetic body; not the celestially armored one? that I guess would explain his decreased durability.

By the way; price of book be damned; I like the expanded page count so far. This will be an excellent Graphic Novel once this run is over and all of books are collected into one big big.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Sep 2020, 20:27

To your first point, it goes that it’s the mystical nature of Otherworld that just makes that not possible. Upon resurrection, as we saw, the entire system basically shut down and something else was let through.

The second point, given the supposed infinite manner of the multiverse, the idea is that you can have any and all possibilities and a composite means a mixup of different parts so creating something new (and that’s an hypothesis, which the book points to is just a hypothesis and leaves uncertainty in the air).

For your third point, if he is a composite, then it means the mix of things makes it so you have a new thing from the pieces of old. So obviously if the story wanted to, you could say a piece of our Rockslide is in there. But the way it seems either he isnt or yhe pieces are so smashed and mixed together that he really no longer can be found.

But man, this really makes me feel like I misread the issue since I thought they were being straightforward with what happened and what the consequences of it all is.

By dying in Otherworld, a person can not be brought back as we know them. Sure you can bring back their body and give them a mind BUT the person they were (ie their memories, personality, maybe even soul?) would not be brought back (Tempus even flat out says it changes all previous backups...so even if you made one prior it wouldn’t matter, it would be corrupted). Thus, as Emma put it, effectively killing them. And it’s all due to the magical nature of Otherworld. Or did I misinterpret all of that?
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norwichchris
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by norwichchris » 30 Sep 2020, 21:48

How I read that was to mean Xavier was backing up there mind in otherworld in order to get a more up to date copy? When Xavier used his powers to restore rockslide it somehow short-circuited the system as the imprint was corrupted by Otherworld Magic.

Or maybe Saturnye was aware of Xavier's resurrection process and sabotaged it somehow for the challenge ahead and to punish them for daring to invade her kingdom?

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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by Gremlin » 30 Sep 2020, 22:11

Great issue. It was a treat to see Polaris front and centre for most of the issue and it seems like she has a role to play going forward.
Sad about Rockslide but we have Rockslide 2.0 instead. I’m sure this is not the end of the story for our original Rockslide.
Loved Emma’s role and her grief over Rockslide. It’s always good when writers lean on her love for her students as it’s one of the core points of the character.
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by manuel_mc89 » 30 Sep 2020, 22:28

I like your first explanation more, it makes sense that's why it happened, but Rictor seemed to be a back up from before his time on Otherworld, becasue they talked about catching up on a lot
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by das_boot » 30 Sep 2020, 22:28

I’m actually really sad about Rockslide. As a character who is often the comic relief in titles, it just feels really sad that this is how he ends, although it really feels like it’s being seeded here that this is going to unlock more of his potential going forward.

I also really appreciated that this issue continues the plot beats of Polaris not really knowing who she is. We see shades of OG Magneto with his harsh treatment of Lorna reflecting how he used to treat Wanda and Pietro before he knew they were his children...
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by EphemeristX » 30 Sep 2020, 22:30

_Rick_ wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 20:12
Hope herself said to the Quiet Council that "The 5 can confirm that dying in Otherworld somehow corrupts a mutant's Cerebro backup." Why would it unless the backup was done when they were in Otherworld. The backup file shouldn't change unless you're replacing it with a new one. Xavier also took the blame by saying "I should have realized much sooner there could be potential limitations from which Cerebro could pull backups from Otherworld".
I think a death in Otherworld causes the Otherworld magics to attack the Cerebro back and corrupt it when it is used. It doesn't matter from when the backup happens; if you die in Otherworld, the magic of the place kills your backup too. Or at least merges it with other versions of you. We could get some major transformations here.

I wonder, though, if the Sinister cloning method might be the more viable option here. Just make extras the old fashioned way and don't add them to the backup. Of course, if they don't actually die, then they have a problem. This could sow the seeds of Sinister using chimeras to fight wars.
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by Aeon » 30 Sep 2020, 22:35

That’s like what happens in Walking Dead.

When you are in America you automatically get infected with the virus and when you die the virus kicks in and transforms someone into an undead being.

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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by Tessa1984 » 30 Sep 2020, 22:42

manuel_mc89 wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 19:58
It sucks that Rockslide had to die like this, im not okay with this
While I get that everyone has their favorite characters for whatever reasons (I like Mondo), I have to admit I was happy to see someone like Rockslide used to further this plot point. He’s among the many students introduced in the 2000s that exhibited little personality to me. I get bored every time I see him, Glob, and Anole appear.

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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by Jesse James II » 30 Sep 2020, 22:43

In the first issue of the Crossover Pertilence shoots the messenger on the Pterodactyl, I mean Pteranodon, the arrow infectq hin with some kind of desease or virus which infects everyone he touches. Shouldn't that mean that at least Syrin would be affected?

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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by EphemeristX » 30 Sep 2020, 22:46

You know, I was thinking "who would be a good death for XoS?" and then it hit me. Beast.

His character has been dragged through the mud lately. Alot of people have alot of problems with him. His character is nigh unfixable at this point. Imagine what this sort of reboot would do. It'd still be Beast, but it would have bits of other Hanks from across the multiverse. It would be an honorable death that would hit the team hard and he'd get a redo of sorts.
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_Rick_
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Re: X-Factor #4

Post by _Rick_ » 30 Sep 2020, 23:48

EphemeristX wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 22:30
_Rick_ wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 20:12
Hope herself said to the Quiet Council that "The 5 can confirm that dying in Otherworld somehow corrupts a mutant's Cerebro backup." Why would it unless the backup was done when they were in Otherworld. The backup file shouldn't change unless you're replacing it with a new one. Xavier also took the blame by saying "I should have realized much sooner there could be potential limitations from which Cerebro could pull backups from Otherworld".
I think a death in Otherworld causes the Otherworld magics to attack the Cerebro back and corrupt it when it is used. It doesn't matter from when the backup happens; if you die in Otherworld, the magic of the place kills your backup too. Or at least merges it with other versions of you. We could get some major transformations here.
Even if so, the question is why. That's what some of us are wondering. We got the consequences (Death in Otherworld--->Corrupted Cerebro file), but not what links the two. "Magic" doesn't quite explain it because magic would be just the force/tool that was used. The question would then become, what/who activated said magic. Hence the two options that norwichchris presented. If it was magic it would make sense that Saturnyne did it. However the characters don't seem to favour that explanation. Instead they seem to be focused on the first option that norwichchris explained: a backup was done of Santo while he was in Otherworld. Xavier seems to think that's what happened which is why he took responsibility for it. It would even make some sense (in a comic booky kind of way). Otherworld is a nexus of realities. Xavier/Cerebro might be inadvertently picking up mental imprints from the multiverse. What I don't get then is why everyone seems to act as if there's no solution to that. It seems obvious that if pulling a backup from Otherworld is bad, then all you need to do is...NOT DO IT. Just don't create new backups of people while they're in Otherworld. Turn off Cerebro for the tournament if you must. An easy and quick fix.
EphemeristX wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 22:30
I wonder, though, if the Sinister cloning method might be the more viable option here. Just make extras the old fashioned way and don't add them to the backup. Of course, if they don't actually die, then they have a problem. This could sow the seeds of Sinister using chimeras to fight wars.
That could be a possibility that should be explored. There's another surefire way of resurrecting people who were killed in Otherworld: Jamie. We saw him resurrect Brian in Excalibur without much effort. Brian was also killed in Otherworld so we know it works.

Having said that, I suspect this is just a poor and convoluted way of getting around the resurrection protocols and raise the stakes. It's a bad sign that the writers are having to provide hamfisted explanations to get around what is bound to be a recurring problem in every major crossover.

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