Welcome to unstablemolecules.com, the discussion home for mightyavengers.net, uncanon.com and uncannyxmen.net!

Marauders #11

Here you can express your opinions about released issues of the current X-Titles
User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 20763
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Marauders #11

Post by Blackcyclops » 12 Aug 2020, 15:24

I know this issue is going to piss off Das and the Marauder-detractors BUT I appreciated that 1) Kate was brought back with assistance from Emma, 2) it was related to her powers and personality, 3)it wasn’t some bit grand thing but almost banal, downplaying the sensationalism, and 4) No NEO nonsense and it proves Kate isn’t the traitor.
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 3669
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: Marauders #11

Post by das_boot » 12 Aug 2020, 16:10

I’m only pissed that Emma didn’t immediately go full White Queen on Shaw.

Also that Kitty’s back. BOOOOOOO.
X-Centric podcast: coming soon!

User avatar
InsipidLust
Posts: 923
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 01:21

Re: Marauders #11

Post by InsipidLust » 12 Aug 2020, 16:16

Only tangentially related but I so prefer when Emma is drawn as tall as she is here. Artists (and fanfiction writers) occasionally love forgetting that.
Unity Squad Draft: Monet St. Croix. Mr. Fantastic. Professor Xavier. Doctor Voodoo. Tempus.

User avatar
Fenix
Posts: 664
Joined: 27 Sep 2007, 00:44

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Fenix » 12 Aug 2020, 17:59

While I love this book it pretty much feels like after putting Shaw in his rightful place it comes to its natural closure.

Im glad Kate is back and Im really looking forward to see what do the White and Red Queens have in mind...

User avatar
Crutey Anth
Posts: 479
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:33

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Crutey Anth » 12 Aug 2020, 18:30

I don't know if its just me but

Kurt- Kitty- Storm- Colossus (Illyana and Rachel as a bit more distant ones) are the family element in the X-Men. It just goes to show how great Claremont was at character back in the day and how writers resonate with it. Just having most of those react to Kate's death and ressurection is perfect. I still with Kurt called here Katya/Katzchen even when everyone else moves to calling her Kate.

Others feel like team mates/co-workers/ friends (obvious expections are the New Mutants are clearly a proper little family)

User avatar
tokenBG1009
Posts: 6097
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 20:34

Re: Marauders #11

Post by tokenBG1009 » 12 Aug 2020, 19:14

Emma and Kate’s relationship has become one of my favorites recently. By recently, I mean over the last few years when I reread a lot of their interactions. I think Emma has a love and respect for Kate that might honestly rival those who’s been mentioned. Though I’m not sure Kate feels the same sincerity towards Emma.

I love that Emma was so instrumental in bringing Kate back is ultimately what I’m saying here. Kate has been such an integral member of Emma’s growth in my opinion.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

User avatar
norwichchris
Posts: 410
Joined: 22 Dec 2019, 18:40

Re: Marauders #11

Post by norwichchris » 12 Aug 2020, 21:38

I just read this issue and admit was a little bit disappointed but it did kinda make some sense so Kate can phase through the portals but not walk through normally.

I agree think this book will end with Shaw going down but he will likely have planned for this and escape Krakoa. Did Shinobi know what he did? Or Xavier?

This whole story does show that not all mutants on Krakoa can coexist peacefully with one another, old rivalries will resurface always...

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 1544
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 00:54

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Magnus » 13 Aug 2020, 03:38

I was glad to see that it wasn't just a whole issue about the funeral (as I feared) but instead we got a resolution to the mystery, Kate resurrected and Shaw identified. I was ready to move the plot along and get to the fun part (revenge on Shaw).

That said, the mystery resolution was ultimately banal and somewhat disappointing. It was nice that Emma was the one to figure it out, but... 18 tries before anyone thought of her powers, really? I also don't know that this really explains Kate's inability to use the Krakoa gates (if it is, does anyone else with phasing abilities has the same problem?)

The Storm scene will probably be overlooked given the other happenings in this issue but I liked it. I'd like to see more plots about the interactions with the X-Men with the outside world... especially ones that aren't totally acrimonious.

User avatar
Leo
Posts: 364
Joined: 04 Aug 2010, 08:03

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Leo » 13 Aug 2020, 04:22

I like the issue and the resolution about why they had trouble with Kate's resurrection. I love this scheming and plotting behind the scene between the queens and king of Helfire Trading. Anyway, back to the issue, I don't know if Kate's power is the same thing that caused her not to be able to walk through the Krakoan gates (was it addressed in this issue?). If it is, and she can actually phase through the gates instead of just walk through, can someone explain why she can't phase through certain Krakoan roots (if I remember correctly, Shaw used these roots to entangle Kate and drown her)?
Avengers Draft: Hyperion, Invisible Woman, Manifold, Blue Marvel, Smasher, Starbrand, Abyss, Scarlet Spider

X-Draft: Cyclops, Psylocke, Colossus, Northstar, Nate Grey, Shatterstar, Cypher, Abigail Brand, Firestar, Madison Jeffries, Slipstream, Darkstar

User avatar
Lavettye
Posts: 1148
Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 18:33
Location: Germany

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Lavettye » 13 Aug 2020, 08:09

Leo wrote:
13 Aug 2020, 04:22
Anyway, back to the issue, I don't know if Kate's power is the same thing that caused her not to be able to walk through the Krakoan gates (was it addressed in this issue?). If it is, and she can actually phase through the gates instead of just walk through, can someone explain why she can't phase through certain Krakoan roots (if I remember correctly, Shaw used these roots to entangle Kate and drown her)?
No, the issue with her being inable to use the gates has not been adressed. Up till now, nearly everyone inside the books and also among the readership assumed the two things were related, and maybe they are, though I do not see exactly how. Problem here was that the body inside the egg is just an empty shell or a "husk" as they call it, and Xavier uploads the person's mind only after the body "hatches" from the egg.

Apparently though, Kate's body didn't hatch; there was no "instinct" to break the shell and hatch because she doesn't need to, yet she didn't yet have her conscious mind that knew this and would just phase out at the right time. With the mental push from Emma, her body was finally able to do that, and right thereafter Xavier uploaded her mind.
Magnus wrote:
13 Aug 2020, 03:38
I also don't know that this really explains Kate's inability to use the Krakoa gates (if it is, does anyone else with phasing abilities has the same problem?)
Nope. In issue #3 we saw the ressurection of Shinobi Shaw, who has a somewhat similar power that allows him to become intangible too, and yet his body cracked the shell like any other rebirth.

Kitty's case just might be special due to her natural state being intangible and her having to concentrate to become tangible, which she can't do if her mind isn't in there. That actually would be a reason for this to not be related to her gate problem, because I recall Kitty saying that she couldn't walk or phase through, so she must have tried several different things with conscious effort - powers turned on and off.
[PL_2.0]

User avatar
tokenBG1009
Posts: 6097
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 20:34

Re: Marauders #11

Post by tokenBG1009 » 13 Aug 2020, 13:39

Saw someone mention this on reddit but the 18 was significant because it’s pronounced “Chai” which also translates to “life” and I at least appreciate that.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 20763
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Blackcyclops » 13 Aug 2020, 15:42

tokenBG1009 wrote:
13 Aug 2020, 13:39
Saw someone mention this on reddit but the 18 was significant because it’s pronounced “Chai” which also translates to “life” and I at least appreciate that.
Dope...now I love this issue even more
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
medium13
Posts: 1139
Joined: 08 Apr 2007, 21:42

Re: Marauders #11

Post by medium13 » 13 Aug 2020, 16:01

I had to think about this issue and digest it before I could comment. I liked it. At first, I felt the resolution to Kate's resurrection dilemma was not satisfactory, but now I like it a lot. Maybe she's unique amongst those who phase in that she has a default state of intangibility, in that she has a default of being intangible and she pushes her molecules through and around others as opposed to altering the density of her molecules (side-eyes Doctor Doom and the Fantastic Four/X-Men series). The writing here is clever too in that it really highlights this unique bond between Kate and Emma that has grown from bitter adversity, more so than even Storm and the former White Queen. But, this didn't come at the cost of excluding the people who are so important in her life like Kurt, Illyana, Rachel, and Professor X. I'm curious if all the husks were destroyed by fire, or if there may be some lurking around to be reanimated at some point. This did not resolve the gate issue for me either, so I believe that still needs to be addressed as I see these issues as two separate and distinct problems. Boy, Lockheed has gotten big.

Storms' moment shouldn't be overshadowed either. That was the most fun I've had with Storm in some time and I'd like to see her in the forefront more here without sacrificing the spotlight on Kate. The cloak and dagger aspect of this reminded me that Ororo can literally do anything and channel Beyoncé. The reflection of the Cuckoo's emptying the train (or perhaps projecting Storm directly into her mind...but I think she was actually on the train) was such a fun touch that says so much without any text.

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 3669
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: Marauders #11

Post by das_boot » 13 Aug 2020, 23:44

Okay so full thoughts on this— you know what? I won’t be won over to be a Kitty fan, and that’s fine. But I actually liked the explanation of her resurrection. I like that Emma is the one to figure it out, because she has a unique perspective on Kitty as a person. She isn’t her little/big sister, she isn’t her best friend or her surrogate mother, she’s someone who is incredibly open about her respect for Kitty without expecting Kitty to fully trust or even like her, most of the time. If Emma is Pinocchio, Kitty is her Jiminy Cricket— her external and extremely vocal conscience... although I WOULD say that I think Lockheed’s instinct to go to Emma over, say, Xavier or Jean is telling for how Kitty really feels about Emma nowadays, but that’s by the by.

I’m down for Storm giving me full Lemonade realness here. I am DOWN for Storm doing something cool and interesting and I LOVED that scene with the Cuckoos.

Is this all enough time make me love this book?

No.

But clever writing and some spinning plate pieces with the characters that I DO like in this series have bought it a reprieve from the cull list for me (and also because my LCBS has clearly lost the list of titles I was dropping)
X-Centric podcast: coming soon!

User avatar
Quick and Dead
Posts: 2184
Joined: 12 Feb 2009, 19:34
Location: New York City

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Quick and Dead » 14 Aug 2020, 14:16

Makes you think what exactly the Five were doing for 18 times. Were they just hoping it would suddenly work without looking into what the issue was or trying something different? Xavier is standing right there, he couldn't interact with the shell and see what was up. That's what Emma ended up doing after all.

It was a beautiful issue and a satisfying enough ending, I'm just nitpicking because the whole thing came off a little too simplistic.

User avatar
Lavettye
Posts: 1148
Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 18:33
Location: Germany

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Lavettye » 14 Aug 2020, 15:00

das_boot wrote:
13 Aug 2020, 23:44
... although I WOULD say that I think Lockheed’s instinct to go to Emma over, say, Xavier or Jean is telling for how Kitty really feels about Emma nowadays, but that’s by the by.
I'd say Lockheed went to Emma's Palace because he was exhausted and he knows exactly where that palace is (in Hellfire Bay) opposed to Storm's residence, which he we have yet to see (and she might be away with the Marauders), additionally he may have gone straight to Emma because it was Shaw who shot him and killed Kate.
Quick and Dead wrote:
14 Aug 2020, 14:16
Makes you think what exactly the Five were doing for 18 times. Were they just hoping it would suddenly work without looking into what the issue was or trying something different? Xavier is standing right there, he couldn't interact with the shell and see what was up. That's what Emma ended up doing after all.It was a beautiful issue and a satisfying enough ending, I'm just nitpicking because the whole thing came off a little too simplistic.

If they did the exact same thing 18 times over, that would be the very definition of madness (applying the same method but expecting a different outcome), so they probably spend a few tries to make sure that they did everything "right" (no contaminated DNA sample, exact gestation time, no crack in the egg, etc) and in "synch", and maybe even tried do her in a group with other eggs or just Kate by herself, and eventually they must have run out of ideas, which is why the Five wanted to move on.

We do not know if Xavier was present all 18 times, but the was no reason for him to use telepathy on a body that didn't yet contain Kate's mind. And even if he had telepathically scanned that empty mind, he wouldn't have found out what the problem was, as that empty mind/husk didn't know either. This was not about having the power to do it, but about having the right idea or intuition to understand the problem in the first place. It didn't even have to be a telepath, it could have been anyone's guess that Kate's body didn't crack the shell because in its intangible state it doesn't "sense" there being a shell that needed to be cracked or passed.

I am tempted to say, that Emma shows herself to be the better teacher and mentor here, realizing what Kate needs whereas Xavier was busy writing her eulogy, but it's not Emma's credit alone. It was Kurt's comment that made her have the right realization. I thought it was a nice surprising twist, that in retrospect may have taken longer than needed, on the other hand, there was 3 months Corona delay between start and end of this arc that's affecting our perception here.
[PL_2.0]

User avatar
tokenBG1009
Posts: 6097
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 20:34

Re: Marauders #11

Post by tokenBG1009 » 15 Aug 2020, 00:22

Alright, this is it. You're officially Peter Luzifer now. I missed you.

I do wonder why they don't put the "Soul" back in the body while in the egg. It seems like Kate would have phased out just fine if she'd been able to.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

User avatar
Cable
Posts: 4595
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 18:31
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Cable » 16 Aug 2020, 19:43

I guess I have to come in here and eat my words as I adamantly insisted that there was no way Kitty Pryde was going to return to life like literally every other character. It seemed impossible but they found a way.

This actually was a pretty good issue. Some nice small moments and as others said kudos to Duggan for not dragging this out longer than necessary, hitting just the right story beats and then wrapping it up in this issue to prepare for the exciting endgame of Frost v Shaw.
Best Comics of Week 39

Best X-Comic: Juggernaut #1 by Fabian Nicieza (1) and Ron Garney (1)
Best Non-X Comic: Immortal She-Hulk #1 by Al Ewing (9) and Jon Davis-Hunt (1)

In parentheses number of times creator has had best comic of the week this year

User avatar
Aeon
Posts: 1048
Joined: 30 Apr 2019, 12:05

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Aeon » 16 Aug 2020, 19:56

Is Emma the new Magik for Kitty now? For popping up all the time in nearly every comic, Magik wasn’t really hit hard by her death.


And imagine, suffocating 18 times while everyone watches from outside..

User avatar
Lavettye
Posts: 1148
Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 18:33
Location: Germany

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Lavettye » 16 Aug 2020, 20:16

Yeah, but Kate's mind wasn't in there, so she didn't experience either one of those 17 failed attempts. As far as her mind is concerned, she only suffocated once when Shaw drowned her, if they let her keep the memory of that.

Anyway, this more or less answers token's question why they don't put the mind and soul in the body while it's still in the egg. Even if everything goes smoothly, that would be a horrific experience. They'd be trapped in a transparent shell, barely able to move while their bodies are still developing. And while it may be a "fast" process to the outside observer, it's not for the egg and the embryo/body growing inside. That's still taking years; after all that is why Tempus is part of the Five as she is "capable of temporally maturing a husk to a desired age", as HoX #5 put it.
[PL_2.0]

User avatar
tokenBG1009
Posts: 6097
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 20:34

Re: Marauders #11

Post by tokenBG1009 » 16 Aug 2020, 20:53

Well, I meant mostly prior to breaking out of the egg. Thus, once Kate's body was "ready" put the soul in and let her break out.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

User avatar
Quick and Dead
Posts: 2184
Joined: 12 Feb 2009, 19:34
Location: New York City

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Quick and Dead » 16 Aug 2020, 21:10

Lavettye wrote:
16 Aug 2020, 20:16
Yeah, but Kate's mind wasn't in there, so she didn't experience either one of those 17 failed attempts. As far as her mind is concerned, she only suffocated once when Shaw drowned her, if they let her keep the memory of that.
She said the last thing she remembers is hugging Emma at the White Keep so that's presumably when Xavier's last weekly backup was created prior to her murder.

User avatar
norwichchris
Posts: 410
Joined: 22 Dec 2019, 18:40

Re: Marauders #11

Post by norwichchris » 16 Aug 2020, 22:39

Still wonder if Xavier did want kitty back at all? Find it hard to believe he did not realise what as happening or any of the five? Suspicious...

If the body is suffocating why not physically break it out then restore the mind is that not possible?

User avatar
Lavettye
Posts: 1148
Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 18:33
Location: Germany

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Lavettye » 16 Aug 2020, 23:18

If Xavier didn't want Kate back, why did he even let the Five try seventeen times, and why did he let Kurt convince him to run the course an eighteenth time against Goldball's/the Five's thoughts on the matter. (see #10)
norwichchris wrote:
16 Aug 2020, 22:39
If the body is suffocating why not physically break it out then restore the mind is that not possible?
Because they didn't know. The husk not breaking the shell when it was due read to them as "not viable". Same as one would think when they have a chicken that has been incubating a full nest of eggs for 3 weeks and all eggs but one hatched. You can't just crack an egg on suspicion, if its too soon it kills the chick inside, so you wait a day or two more, but if there still is no movement, then there was something wrong with that egg.

Usually, the husk breaking out of the shell indicates that they have fully matured and are ready to come out, in Kate's case you don't have that indicator. In theory, you could just crack the shell at the right time, but then Kate still might be intangible, so giving her husk a mental push to activate her power is probably the safer option.
[PL_2.0]

User avatar
Bigstever
Posts: 104
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 19:31
Location: Summerland, British Columbia

Re: Marauders #11

Post by Bigstever » 17 Aug 2020, 02:25

Do we know why the Krakoan gates won't accept her though? I just want to make sure I haven't missed something.
"Fantasy is hardly an escape from reality. It's a way of understanding it."
-Lloyd Alexander

Post Reply