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X-Men #10

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Leo
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Leo » 03 Aug 2020, 01:52

Lavettye wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 02:27
norwichchris wrote:
01 Aug 2020, 13:19
Well technically the original Krakoa island was shot into space so it is impossible for him to have already planned this out before then. He would have met Moira and been exposed to her lives long before he founded the X-men as they were I believe at College together? (please correct me if thats wrong?)

He would however had had a backup imprint of Petra,Sway, Changeling and Thunderbird on Cerebro for storage anyway and maybe he began working with Forge before the X-men first met him he just never told anyone which is like him.
Indeed, Xavier gained the knowledge from Moira long before he ever formed the X-Men, still he didn't have access to all the parts needed to set his plan in motion.

But that flashback with Xavier and Forge in PoX #5 is clearly set at a later date. During their converstion the Beast is mentioned and refered to as "doctor" (placing this at least after Hank initially left the X-Men and wrote his dissertation) and it is also said that this would be the third or fourth update to Cerebro. Additionally, when they discuss a power source and the storage capacity required to dowload all these mutants minds, Xavier revealed that he had access to Shi'Ar tech, namely an anti-matter engine and so called logic diamonds, that have unlimited storage capacity for all the recorded data and back-ups. Xavier first met the Shi'Ar in UXM #104 and then lived with them for a while from UXM #118-128, before he returned to Earth.

So the tech to record an entire person was only perfected after Changeling, Thunderbird, Petra and Sway had died... and yet we have seen them in DoX issues. I've long wondered how that can be, and was hoping Hickman will explain it eventually. Maybe those minds were downloaded during a brief incident when someone reanimated their corpses (X-Humed, Necrosha, Chaos War), or maybe Xavier time-traveled with Illyana to collect those mental imprints?

Or, and this idea might also explain Petra's and Sway's behaviour, there's a few mutans who have been brought back not as perfect copies but as mere clones and had then their memories partially telepathically restored (by downloaded some information from other people, who knew Petra and Sway when they were alive)
Cable wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 01:56
I will say though that I didn't read Deadly Genesis and thus have no insight at all into Petra and Sway. Is this how they always acted or do their personalities seem different?
Both have detailed profile entries at the UXN. They acted nothing like this, though both appeared for no more than 5 issues, and as some of the others said, they have gone through something very traumatic. There is reason for them to be changed, but to change like this?

Just looking at their profile entries again made me realize that they had in common that both lost their parents. Petra's were killed in a landslide she may have accdientally caused when her powers emerged, and Sway's were killed in a shooting, and she hadn't mastered her power yet to save them. Back when they were a team, Gabriel had no idea who his parents were or what became of them, so they all were orphaned in a way.
And now, post resurrection, they see Gabriel being a respected member of THE mutant family, and they are just a couple of mutants who nobody never knew and who got killed on their first mission.
My understanding (based on my recollection of reading HOX - and please feel free to correct me if I was wrong) is that Xavier had been doing backups for mutants that he knew using cerebro even before he met with Forge. Forge helped increase cerebro's capacity to backup the whole mutant population on earth, but Xavier definitely already had backups for mutants he recruited, at the very least. So I won't be surprised that he has backups for Petra and Sway.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Quick and Dead » 03 Aug 2020, 02:06

That's how I view it too. Xavier had already been keeping backups for mutants as best he could and Forge combined with the Shi'ar technology he would later gain access to helped him take it all to the next level.

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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Lavettye » 03 Aug 2020, 07:05

Check PoX #5 again. That exchange between Forge and Xavier starts with Xavier's question if what he has in mind can be done at all, to which Forge says anything's possible theoretically, but that it might be a matter of feasibility, to which Xavier says not to worry about that. Then Forge and Xavier sum up that he is currently using a third generation of Cerebro (or fourth, if one counts the initial prototype), and that the prior improvements were range and sensitvity upgrades.

Forge then says "And now you want to use the current functionality of Cerebro -- the ability to locate any mutant on the planet -- to also copy that mutant's mind. To make a back-up of a sentient being."
Xavier confirms "Yes, that's correct. But in my gentle broaching of the subject with Henry, he was rather emphatic that it cannot be done."
Forge: "Beast is certainly smart -- But this kind of machine building is, well, beyond the good doctor's expertise." and then he continues with the two earlier described problems, energy source and amount of to be stored data, to which Shi'Ar tech was the key.

Making 100% back-ups of mutant minds clearly was not possible before this point. They may be able to clone Petra, Sway, Changeling and T-Bird with genetic material from Sininster's collection, and as all four either lived at the mansion or Muir Island for some time there might be medical scans and training logs to access, but no full recordings of their entire mind and memories. But I wouldn't put it past Xavier's arrogance to proceed anyway with him over-confidently telepathically "filling in the blanks" from personal memory or maybe even drawing from other people, like Warpath's childhood memories.

It reminds me of the Carol Danvers scenario after Rogue accidentally permanently absorbed her powers and persona. Carol's powers were gone, and while Xavier could telepathically restore her memories, all her emotional conncetions to those memories were gone, which was very bitter and almost too much for her to bear, which is why she went into space with the Starjammers in the first place - to make new memories and experiences rather than constanly being reminded of old ones that no longer felt real to her. Intrestinly enough, Carol later turned to alcohol to numb herself.....

Back when the idea of the ressurections were introduced, we were left with such philosophical questions wether a clone body with a dowloaded 100% copy of your mind and entire being would qualify as "the same person" or not. Hard to answer, and make up your mind about. But in the cases of Petra, Sway, Changeling and T-Bird, though, we may be looking at mere shadows or imitations of the (dead) real deals.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by WorkForce » 03 Aug 2020, 07:54

Imagine, you are a writer and you have to take over from Hickmann who had to leave for some reasons.

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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Quick and Dead » 03 Aug 2020, 14:46

Lavettye wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 07:05
Check PoX #5 again. That exchange between Forge and Xavier starts with Xavier's question if what he has in mind can be done at all, to which Forge says anything's possible theoretically, but that it might be a matter of feasibility, to which Xavier says not to worry about that. Then Forge and Xavier sum up that he is currently using a third generation of Cerebro (or fourth, if one counts the initial prototype), and that the prior improvements were range and sensitvity upgrades.

Forge then says "And now you want to use the current functionality of Cerebro -- the ability to locate any mutant on the planet -- to also copy that mutant's mind. To make a back-up of a sentient being."
Xavier confirms "Yes, that's correct. But in my gentle broaching of the subject with Henry, he was rather emphatic that it cannot be done."
Forge: "Beast is certainly smart -- But this kind of machine building is, well, beyond the good doctor's expertise." and then he continues with the two earlier described problems, energy source and amount of to be stored data, to which Shi'Ar tech was the key.

Making 100% back-ups of mutant minds clearly was not possible before this point.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I still don't see how this conversation dismisses the idea that Xavier could have already been making backups prior to his conversation with Forge. From what we know, Charles is able to make backups and transfer backups on his own and a data page even claims he's done so on himself at least three times. I don't think he needed Forge's assistance for anything other than the massive storage it would require. Plus, it's clearly a plan he had in the works for a while before meeting with Forge so there's no reason to doubt that he was already testing out the process of keeping backups on current X-Men.

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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Lavettye » 03 Aug 2020, 15:34

Forge provided more than just adding a storage unit. If it was just a matter of plugging Cerebro to an external harddrive big enough to store the recorded data, then Hank McCoy could have easily done it. It's clearly said that Cerebro itself needed to be upgraded to make the downloading of a person's entire being possible.

While Xavier may have (mentally and techologically) recorded some files on the X-Men, those can't be anything like the full 100% "back-ups" of a person we are reading about now. Unless you are implying that he was able to make full 100% copies of at least four different people and hold them in his head for months, he must have stored that information somewhere, but the technology to store that much data (even if Xavier would have been able to fully extract it) didn't exist yet, so there HAS to be some data loss involved.

From Morrison's run (Cassandra Nova switching minds with Xavier), we already know that omega level telepath Jean had significant troubles storing Xavier's entire being for just a few hours, and she still lost some of his memories before she could transfer him into his rightful body. I don't see Xavier doing that for four different people this long, especially when he couldn't have known that these four would die exactly when they did. He saw glimpses of Moira's past nine lifes, but not neccessarily his own past lifes and especially not the future of his tenth life. So actually Xavier would have needed to make such recordings and updates of all his allies just in case someone were to die, which brings us back to significant storage issues.

The whole point of the Forge/Xavier scene in PoX #5 was to explain the ressurection process and how Xavier gained the means to perform it; if he had been able to make these recording before Shi'Ar tech, then why even bring up Shi'Ar tech and the need for Forge to upgrade Cerebro?

But this no longer is about X-Men #10 now.... Well, going from what little panel time Petra and Sway got, it's hard to judge, but their behaviour seems somewhat odd... so it wouldn't surprise me if they were damaged goods and not fully accurate ressurections/copies of themselves. Only time will tell.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by norwichchris » 03 Aug 2020, 17:45

Mostly agre with Lavettye on this Xavier have been able to photocopy there minds onto Cerebro somehow. Remember this is the function of the device and maybe he had some limited storage compacity like a photocopy.

They are just clones like the various Spiderman clones we had in the MU who are mentally scarred and damaged.

To be honest they all seemed a little bit fake to me especially the facial expressions and the fact Corsair seemed to not acknowledge Vulcan killed him. Personally can't bare the artist he makes them all look like they have fake facial expressions.

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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 03 Aug 2020, 17:50

Corsaid would have no bearing on this clone argument since he was brought back earlier by non-Krakoan means.

Your assessment on Spider-man clones isn’t accurate and make for a poor comparison. Kaine was mentally unstable originally because of how he was raised after cloning and the degeneration affecting his body (this was not a permanent state for him as he would reform). Ben Reilly didn’t turn “evil” until he experience years of torture/death/respawning at the hands of the Jackal. And Spidercide (the third and worst clone) was designed to be “evil”...those are the only major clones. Other Spidey clones were made but made to be disposable fodder.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by norwichchris » 03 Aug 2020, 20:45

Blackcyclops wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 17:50
Corsaid would have no bearing on this clone argument since he was brought back earlier by non-Krakoan means.

Your assessment on Spider-man clones isn’t accurate and make for a poor comparison. Kaine was mentally unstable originally because of how he was raised after cloning and the degeneration affecting his body (this was not a permanent state for him as he would reform). Ben Reilly didn’t turn “evil” until he experience years of torture/death/respawning at the hands of the Jackal. And Spidercide (the third and worst clone) was designed to be “evil”...those are the only major clones. Other Spidey clones were made but made to be disposable fodder.
You are completely correct, oddly enough never knew about Ben Reilly turning evil. Remember Spidercide or Spidercider. A drink name I made up.

Technically didn't Xavier clone his body after being infected by the Brood.

For Corsair sorry meant he didn't react to Vulcan nor did the Shiar at all.

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Re: X-Men #10

Post by das_boot » 03 Aug 2020, 21:02

Edit: Lavettye already said what I was going to say. Yeah, I don’t think these are true back ups of Petra and Sway, I think they’re basically just dolls. It explains why they have no character here.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by EphemeristX » 03 Aug 2020, 21:33

There are tons of ways they could get around the copy tech being implemented at a later date.

Tempus herself can travel through time. We've seen her do it.
Timeslip and Flashback can both travel directly into the past
Timeshadow can pull a past duplicate into the present
Magik's stepping discs travel through time as well as space
Rachel Grey's suddenly-popular chronskimming powers
Anyone Rogue ever absorbed would still be imprinted on her brain
Same for anyone Copycat copied

And as a response to characterization issues, I've already said my piece, but I'll reiterate.
One issue. Give them a minute. Or give a writer who's more interested in D-List characterization a chance to write them. As much as I enjoy Hickman, I admit that he can take the broadest of strokes for characters outside of his favorite few.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Lavettye » 03 Aug 2020, 22:08

Yes, some of those ways might work. I'd think for Cerebro to make such a recording of an entire person, it needs to be in the same timezone as that person, which Magik could accomplish by bringing the person from the past briefly to the present. Timeslip or Tempus visiting someone in the past, on the other hand, would require for them to use a portable Cerebro with enough storage capacity. And working from Rogue's or Copycat's imprints would limit it to the version of the person at that time, and neglect any changes that happened to that character after encountering Rogue and Copycat. But I also provided another option above, when I mentioned that recordings may halso have been made during an event when they dead were reanimated, like uring the Chaos War or Necrosha.

I'd still like Hickman to adress this subject at some point. Clearly he thought HoXPoX through and when those series were released, he made some online comments about little mistakes and continuity errors they failed to fix prior printing, making it clear that the timing of those flashback was something he clearly had throught about.

The background appearances of T-Bird and Changeling in other issues are not on Hickman, but him using Petra and Sway already twice now in his own book despite their death occuring before those flashbacks .... I don't think that's coincidence or a mere oversight on his part.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by EphemeristX » 03 Aug 2020, 23:03

I agree with you. Hickman has certainly done this for a specific storyline reason. But I don't think they're a figment of Vulcan's imagination and I don't think they're 'dolls'.

I do think, though, that Xavier's impetus for bringing them back was not for their own benefit but for Vulcan's, as he's stated before that it helps with reacclimation to bring back mutants in pre-established groups. Synch and Skin, for instance. Or the original Hellions. Imagine Petra and Sway finding out that they were brought back not for their own sake but for the sake of Gabriel Summers. Now that we know he wasn't brought back but somehow arrived amnesiac and in a pre-evil state, I'm thinking that Xavier decided to figure out Petra and Sway to keep Vulcan from going crazy again. And that's why they've both been basically attached to his hip. That's going to be a knife in the gut.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Magnus » 03 Aug 2020, 23:05

Lavettye wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 15:34
But this no longer is about X-Men #10 now.... Well, going from what little panel time Petra and Sway got, it's hard to judge, but their behaviour seems somewhat odd... so it wouldn't surprise me if they were damaged goods and not fully accurate ressurections/copies of themselves. Only time will tell.
das_boot wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 21:02
Edit: Lavettye already said what I was going to say. Yeah, I don’t think these are true back ups of Petra and Sway, I think they’re basically just dolls. It explains why they have no character here.
But if they are intended to be just fully resurrected, would they be any different? They're basically non-entity cipers, having shown up for what, two issues' worth in Deadly Genesis? I don't think you can read having no personality into someone with no personality. I'd wager they've only been used because Hickman needed a few D-listers to fill a role, and they're previous associates of Vulcan so it makes sense they'd hang out with him. To a certain extent, everyone has been 'off' under Hickman's pen, which is why we've had so many theories about mental manipulation and such. Hickman just writes people a bit off and cold in general.

Maybe I'm way off but I think we're hitting that point (especially with the COVID-related break) where because the author is known for laying down hints and such that everything gets overanalyzed and assumed to be a hint when it's just supposed to be taken at face value. Reminds me a lot of some of the speculation on ASOIAF while everyone continues to wait for the next book.

(Don't get me wrong, I love all the discussion and speculation. It's a big part of what makes reading comics fun!)

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Re: X-Men #10

Post by das_boot » 03 Aug 2020, 23:33

EphemeristX wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 21:33
Trauma effects people in different ways. Becoming dependent on alcohol and only having vapid, surface level thoughts to keep from dealing with trauma is a common thing.
Which brings me neatly to my initial point— this felt like using trauma, or characters dealing with trauma, at least, as comedy. I get that there’s a level of Hickman trying to show us the cracks in this utopia, and I can almost appreciate that, as readers, we have a sense that something isn’t quite right, but the mutants seem totally fine with it. This isn’t a utopia, it’s a dystopia masquerading as such. But to literally and repeatedly use trauma as a plot point and motivator for characters (Vulcan, Petra, Sway, anyone undergoing the Crucible “endure traumatic and fatal injuries in a public setting to see if you’re worthy”, Mystique, Synch)... it just feels cheap. It doesn’t feel like clever story-telling, it feels like there’s a price to pay for this false utopia and the X-Men are more than happy to just pay it. They’re feeling an awful lot like a kicked dog who tolerates a heavy hand because they know they’ll be given a treat later, and it doesn’t sit well with me.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 03 Aug 2020, 23:40

Interestingly enough, this is the only book where Krakoa feels like it's supposed to be a utopia with a dystopian undertone to it...maybe New Mutants too but every other book really does show the cracks in Krakoa and portrays it as a flawed place where the mutants are really really trying to build something new for themselves but not in a "it's a Utopia, SYKE! It's really a dystopia!". Now of course you can feel how you want about that (I tend to appreciate more the story being told in X-Force over X-Men because it does present the struggle and errors in trying to maintain this nation-state in a very face value way that's unhindered by pretense OR Marauders which does feel more concerned with character than telling a broad metaphysical story or Excalibur which scratches a particular fantasy itch that I really like or X-Factor which really zeroes in on the mechanics of the nation...).

This of course could just be my preference for those titles speaking...
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by EphemeristX » 04 Aug 2020, 00:48

What's wrong with using trauma for comedy? Almost everyone lives with some sort of trauma. Laughing at it is as viable a strategy as anything else.

And I don't get where people think this is supposed to be presented as a utopia. From the very beginning, many people, including various members of the quiet council and other important mutants, have spoken directly about how Krakoa is flawed. If anything, any sort of utopian setting is merely a backdrop, or it's for the masses who are still swimming in the tiki pool. They've been attacked on their own island more than once and are deeply involved in global politics, espionage, wetworks, and black ops.

What it is, though, is a chance for mutantkind to have a homeland, something they've never had before. What we've been seeing just how dirty they are willing to get to keep it.

I mean, let's face it, as dark as it is, they're not a royal family with a genetically engineered subhuman working class *coughinhumanscough*.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Lavettye » 04 Aug 2020, 06:53

EphemeristX wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 00:48
What's wrong with using trauma for comedy? Almost everyone lives with some sort of trauma. Laughing at it is as viable a strategy as anything else.
If the traumatized person were to laugh at it, that's okay. It's also okay to laugh with the traumatized person, but to laugh at them, or to make the traumatized person act in a way that they become laughing stock.... not that much.

That said, though, the portrayal of Sway and Petra doesn't even strike me as funny or comical. I just see two people busy getting drunk and making snappy comments that aren't particularly clever or funny. Definitely not my kind of humor, but then again I also fail to see the humor in those Hangover films and similar movies from that Hollywood genre.


As for the two of them having established personalities before, I say that was the case more so for Petra than for Sway. They may not have appeared in many issues, but Petra's origin story established her to have witnessed her familiy death and to have run away from a foster home where she was met with prejudice and abuse. She was then living on the streets for about two years and survived by begging and dumpster diving, but did not turn to stealing despite her powers giving her the means to easily do so. That shows some strength of character and respect for moral values.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Leo » 04 Aug 2020, 07:20

Lavettye wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 06:53

As for the two of them having established personalities before, I say that was the case more so for Petra than for Sway. They may not have appeared in many issues, but Petra's origin story established her to have witnessed her familiy death and to have run away from a foster home where she was met with prejudice and abuse. She was then living on the streets for about two years and survived by begging and dumpster diving, but did not turn to stealing despite her powers giving her the means to easily do so. That shows some strength of character and respect for moral values.
I agree with this. Having said that, people with strength of character and respect for moral values can also sometimes turn to alcohol for an escape. But I also agree with EphemeristX that we can't judge Petra's and Sway's characters (or mis-characterization) based on two cameo appearances.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Omnicon » 04 Aug 2020, 08:24

But it doesn’t really shine a good light in them or the writer, when in the only two appearances both characters are drunk as fuck and talking like party gurls from Jersey.

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Re: X-Men #10

Post by EphemeristX » 04 Aug 2020, 14:21

Lavettye wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 06:53
EphemeristX wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 00:48
What's wrong with using trauma for comedy? Almost everyone lives with some sort of trauma. Laughing at it is as viable a strategy as anything else.
If the traumatized person were to laugh at it, that's okay. It's also okay to laugh with the traumatized person, but to laugh at them, or to make the traumatized person act in a way that they become laughing stock.... not that much.
The problem with that is that Petra and Sway aren't real. They're fictional characters. People talk about agency, but what exactly is fictional agency? When a writer has the character say why they're doing something questionable? When it's explained in background text? What they're doing isn't even that bad. They're young kids having a blast.
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 04 Aug 2020, 15:01

As an expert on all things Shore like, Petra and Sway got a long way to go lol...
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by InsipidLust » 04 Aug 2020, 15:53

I don't know, I feel pretty strangely about making a moral (not sure if this is the right word) judgment about Hickman for portraying two women in their twenties living on what is ostensibly Party Island to them... drinking like a lot of women in their twenties would do under far less joyous circumstances.

Like, could he explore their characters more? Sure. I don't know Hickman's writing well enough to say whether or not such a thing is his gift. But I don't think it's particularly damning that he's not telling a story about Petra or Sway at the moment (maybe this would feel better if they were swapped out with male characters or something, because then they wouldn't be female set pieces in this one-shot story about a mystery specific to Vulcan... but on the other hand, they're some of his only "long-time" friends on the island who haven't had much experience outside of that). And, again, I do feel like we're projecting some of our own experiences on to these characters (just like any given writer might I guess) with little to go on about who are and what they care about beyond what we think they should.

Maybe Petra and Sway are drinking because they are deeply depressed over the trauma of their childhoods or (less likely) the trauma surrounding their deaths. Sure, I could buy that.

Maybe they are just drinking because they're 20-something Americans for which such activities are very, very, very common. Right now their drinking just seems like a portrayal of them having fun in a very common way (the commonality of which may be problematic, but which is a different conversation).
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by norwichchris » 04 Aug 2020, 17:04

Maybe I wasn't looking at it correctly didn't real feel anyone was making fun of them or joking about they just seemed to be having a good time but a bit creepily like faking being happy in my view. To be honest everyone on the island appears to be drinking an awful lot and being very merry so why are Petra and Sway being singled out? Wolverine and Daken were having a drink together which is very odd considering there history of killing each other and don't get me started on Apocalypse.

They do oddly enough call Vulcan "Emperor" did anyone else pick that up? so they do know of his past history and there deaths also.

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Lavettye
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Lavettye » 04 Aug 2020, 18:00

InsipidLust wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 15:53
I don't know, I feel pretty strangely about making a moral (not sure if this is the right word) judgment about Hickman for portraying two women in their twenties living on what is ostensibly Party Island to them... drinking like a lot of women in their twenties would do under far less joyous circumstances.
Only, they aren't on the "Party Island". Both times we've seen them, they were at the Summer House on the moon. I know it's just a gate away from Krakoa, but why would these vivid women in their early twenties (at best - I'd say they were still in their late teens when they died) party up there with Gabriel, who definitely is not in party mood, when there's this whole island of people willing to celebrate mutancy ?

Any while young people may like to drink and party - please take a closer look at the circumstances here:
- they are all alone in the Summer house with the only present resident asleep, and they are already drinking before this person wakes up
- Petra insists on calling her supposed friend and teammate by a nickname he doesn't like as it reminds him of his worst acts
- Petra and Sway see their friend walk off on the moon (!), and even though they don't see him come back after a while and consider to follow him, they choose to keep drinking instead
- they then see an explosion erupt from that area he walked off to, and once again put off going after Gabriel to drink some more
- when they finally do catch up with Gabe and see him blow up a plant alien dude, and Gabriel expresses his fears that he might lose control (again) and blow up the moon, their solution is.... to suggest more drinking

None of this strikes me as "normal teenage/twenties party behaviour".
EphemeristX wrote:
04 Aug 2020, 14:21
The problem with that is that Petra and Sway aren't real. They're fictional characters. People talk about agency, but what exactly is fictional agency? When a writer has the character say why they're doing something questionable? When it's explained in background text? What they're doing isn't even that bad. They're young kids having a blast.
Petra and Sway may not be real, but there is a real person writing this story and he is responsible for what he is writing. If some character in the story were to get raped and then the issue would portray this character as laughing stock for being raped, it would be highly disturbing.... and that doesn't change because the characters aren't real. It doesn't change the message that is being broadcast. It's real people writing it and real people reading it, as such it does matter.

That said, though, I do not read this issue as making fun of trauma. As said before, I think there is something else going on.
[PL_2.0]

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