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X-Men #10

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Blackcyclops
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X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 29 Jul 2020, 10:27

So now the war moves closer to the X-Home...

And interesting that Vulcan’s changed behavior isn’t a result of, as alot of folks thought, Xavier’s meddling (going against that theory again) but an otherworldly force that’s almost certainly going to be a problem later.
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manuel_mc89
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by manuel_mc89 » 29 Jul 2020, 18:20

So, considering that the loner a resurrection takes place and vulcan's situation, i guess what Petra, Sway and Gabriel are doing is not much lets party, but lets numb ourselves with alcohol and not deal with any of our personal and collective trauma. I like that, but i wish it doesnt remain untouched, i would very mych like it if Petra and Sway get on missions and show of their powers and get better and such, because at least with Gabriel, i know his history will come.
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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by norwichchris » 29 Jul 2020, 18:24

I personally hope he reverts back to being more villainous he was more interesting that way.

I have a question:
Spoiler: show
Who were those 3 evil creatures with Vulcan?
It would be interesting to see if the Kotati attempt to invade Krakoa and what measures the Island will take to defend itself. Be surprising if we can see Giant Plant monsters fighting each other.

Has Darwin turned up yet can't remember ever seeing him?

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kalibeast
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by kalibeast » 29 Jul 2020, 18:30

I’m not invested in Empyre at all, so I don’t really care too much about this crossover. However, this seems like a wasted opportunity to use Petra and Sway, two characters who we know almost nothing about, who recently returned from being dead for over a decade in comic-time. Instead of learning anything about them, or even letting them use their powers, we got two drunk girls who could have been replaced by really any X-characters. Idk, this issue fell really flat for me.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 29 Jul 2020, 18:35

They were new aliens...

I don’t think you really ahve to be invested in Empyre to appreciate the story here since the book at least gives you some rundown of events...the problem is that most of the story does spend alot of time with Vulcan without giving Petra and Sway more. I wouldn’t even mind their drinking but it would’ve been cool if they told some character revealing stories about their past or experience since resurrection.
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kalibeast
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by kalibeast » 29 Jul 2020, 18:37

Scott looked great in that speedo, though.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 29 Jul 2020, 18:39

kalibeast wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:37
Scott looked great in that speedo, though.

Lol

A nitpick: I wish Yu gave Jean and Rachel better bathing suits but again another example of artist not really being into fashion...
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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by norwichchris » 29 Jul 2020, 18:42

To be completely honest with you all they all seem to be a little bit drunk... there is excessive drinking on Krakoa especially in the Summers House.

I Would love to be there !!!

We will get stories about there past and experiences since resurrection at a later date probably although do feel they should really reveal more of this know rather than later. Curious to see how they reacted after finding out they had been dead for at least 10-15 years.

That is another thing was interested about if you are resurrected do you go and tell your "human" family and friends you are alive and well?

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Wings
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Wings » 29 Jul 2020, 22:56

I'm surprised Scott even suggested that Gabe be maybe allowed to go back to Shi'ar space at some point... Alex would have clocked him if he'd read that note.

I'll be honest, I don't think that Hickman's done here has made Vulcan any more interesting. He was already a tortured soul who'd done some incredibly heinous things, with a ruined goodness underneath. I too would have liked a bit more depth at was going on with Sway and Petra, but between the drinking and the "Emperor" nickname, they're clearly numbing themselves, so not giving away too much makes sense

It's also odd that they didn't mention Darwin and/or absence at all. That they'd be hanging out with Gabe over Darwin (pre Darwin being trapped in the Vault) to this point is a choice on Hickman's part and telling of their emotional states as well.
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Cosmos666
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Cosmos666 » 30 Jul 2020, 04:28

kalibeast wrote:
29 Jul 2020, 18:37
Scott looked great in that speedo, though.
Scott's devotion to speedos in practically a character trait!

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das_boot
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by das_boot » 30 Jul 2020, 11:38

Thought I’d cancelled my sub to this, however here it was...

There’s something I want to raise and maybe I’m having a total sense of humour failure here. Maybe my dislike for this writing as a whole is coming out. Maybe I’m just having a bad day.

However.

“You are broken and cannot be fixed”... that’s a really dark thought that I know a LOT of people (including myself) who struggle with mental health have had over the years. Mostly when I’ve been engaging the abyss in a staring contest to see who blinks first. To say that about someone’s mental health issues caused by severe trauma, and to double down on that by having two characters who have also experienced massive trauma (lest we forget Sway was bisected but conscious enough to slow time long enough to give Petra, who was BURNING ALIVE time to react to try and save her team), clearly turning to alcohol as a way to repress/hide their trauma... AND HAVE IT PLAYED FOR LAUGHS?

This isn’t trendy and progressive and clever, this was vile and base use of actual mental health issues to explain why these characters are “wrong”. And we’ve used that word previously here— that these characters are acting “wrong”. I won’t go as far as to say I found this offensive, but I found it disrespectful, I found it obnoxious, and I felt that using the trauma of these characters for laughs to be regressive to the progress that people like myself have made on a personal level, and actually, how mental health is perceived by people around us.

I’m so angry that people are eating this up and praising Hickman for his “progressive” stories, when frankly, all I’ve seen so far is queer-baiting with the Scott-Logan stuff, bad fan-fic level wish fulfilment in the three-way relationship, and the near constant undermining of trauma (repressing the memories of the resurrected mutants’ deaths).
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InsipidLust
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by InsipidLust » 30 Jul 2020, 14:25

I feel like but can’t say for sure that your dislike for Hickman’s writing as a whole is coming out. And maybe you were having a bad day. Which is fine, but I read this differently than you did.

Yes, the characters themselves do joke about their penchant for constant binge-drinking but that it’s a problem has been raised by other characters and I feel that Scott’s letter at the end of this (while not directly saying “you’re drinking too much” to Vulcan) seemed to allude to the fact that he was worried about Gabriel and that he felt his brother wasn’t handling his circumstances in a positive way. Also, in previous issues it was mentioned that this constant partying was a problem.

Maybe this was being played for laughs but maybe my own relationship with drinking inform my perspective here—because with Petra and Sway seeming so blasé and flipping about something that was a problem I saw a pretty common phenomenon in American drinking culture (and its relationship to trauma) playing out.

But even that is a projection of my own experiences on to these characters because we actually don’t know if these women were resurrected with memories of what happened to them on Krakoa. It was my first instinct to assume so, but i had to check myself and think: wait, really, we don’t know that and in fact it seems pretty unlikely. Why would they bring Shinobi Shaw back to life without memories of his suicide but resurrect Petra and Sway ON the island that they were killed with memories of the way it killed them? Seems unlikely to me.

I think the other thing we have to remember is that a bunch of opportunistic aliens with a god complex saying that about Vulcan (you are broken and cannot be fixed) is not really the entire thesis of this story since while they clearly have that perspective, the people who welcomed him back (Scott, most notably indicated in this letter of his) do not. That seems pretty realistic to me. Some people have one view of mental health/illness, others have others.

I think it’s perfectly fine not to like this (I didn’t particularly care for this issue except the ending), but I just don’t see it as the vile laugh at mental health that you did Das. I also don’t know that I feel the (still somewhat unconfirmed but for a kiss between Jean and Logan) polyamory angle is queer baiting or particularly unrealistic given both our present cultural moment and the moment that mutants are having in Krakoa. Not really something I want to read about personally but I could see why these people would pursue such an arrangement, and it would be the least strange thing that a bunch of adults who are romantically involved with only one another for the most part and who continue to live under the same roof no matter what happens to them for the majority of their lives Have pursued really.

But, as I think I’ve said before, I think we are all going to read these books and that those readings will be informed by our experiences in many ways. So I appreciate your sharing your thoughts/feelings and relationship to the text. You might well be right, and If nothing else appreciate your testimony about aspects of it that felt in some ways (maybe I presume too much) personal to you (albeit not in a way you found positive).

I was thinking yesterday that a number of these books have been missing the mark for me lately.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Jul 2020, 14:48

I feel like such an odd man out because while I only really liked the stuff about Vulcan here toward the end and felt the issue wasted Petra and Sway, I have overall really enjoyed Marauders, Excalibur, Wolverine and X-Force...and have off and on with New Mutants...this is the one book that I can’t quite grasp if I dislike it or like it. Hellions and X-Factor still too new...
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das_boot
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by das_boot » 30 Jul 2020, 15:01

Insipid— your measured and conscientious response without patronising me or dismissing me outright is why you’re god-tier. Thank you. You’re reading my response exactly, there were parts of this that just felt a little like a personal attack. Perhaps my mistake was reading this book directly after a therapy session, perhaps it’s myriad reasons, but you’re right. I simply couldn’t read this issue and the dialogue as anything other than minimising trauma and making rather cynical jibes about how people are choosing to deal with trauma.

Maybe this IS just my reading of it and interpretation thereof. This title is bombing HARD for me (do we really need more random aliens after the Brood last arc, the Shi’Ar in New Mutants, whatever the hell is happening in Cable?). Everything just smacks of “I’m oh so clever” to me, and it’s just falling so flat, so often that I’m genuinely starting to feel concerned that I’m somehow reading a different title to everyone else.
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InsipidLust
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by InsipidLust » 30 Jul 2020, 15:24

Blackcyclops wrote:
30 Jul 2020, 14:48
I feel like such an odd man out because while I only really liked the stuff about Vulcan here toward the end and felt the issue wasted Petra and Sway, I have overall really enjoyed Marauders, Excalibur, Wolverine and X-Force...and have off and on with New Mutants...this is the one book that I can’t quite grasp if I dislike it or like it. Hellions and X-Factor still too new...
It’s not totally that I dislike the books, it’s that they often feel a little incomplete in a way. I’m in the minority here as I usually like THIS book, though not today.

I like x-force, Marauders and Hellions, with the caveat that both feel incomplete or somehow not all the way cooked through at times. Excalibur excited me at first but now reading it is a boring chore. Wolverine has some interesting stuff going on in it but me? Reading a wolverine book? It’s happened and I’ve enjoyed it at times, hr it’s just not realistic.
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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by norwichchris » 30 Jul 2020, 15:50

Honestly I feel it's as if we are all reading different comics entirely and coming from completely the opposite angle. My view was they are ignoring the trauma via alcohol/partying but also some form of telepathic suppression/manipulation plainly obvious.

All the characters in all the books feel incomplete to me in one way or another or nothing is really explained except as some here have mentioned "bad writing"? I think it is to do with the resurrection process itself affecting there minds as well.

Also I had to stop reading Excalibur as I become obsessed that Apocalypse was plotting to take over the world with the X-men aiding him and made a lot of people angry with me over it but that is how I viewed the entire comic.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Jul 2020, 15:54

“plainly obvious”?
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Fenix
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Fenix » 30 Jul 2020, 18:05

I personally think Petra and Sway probably dont remember the exact details about how they died in Krakoa but they might know enough about it as I dont think they are in the Moon with Vulcan by chance but maybe avoiding Krakoa itself.
As some of you said they are all suffering some different stages of PSTD that are not being treated or dealt in the most healthy way, but drinking, partying out and ignoring the problem... but I also think this will be addressed sooner than later.

Hickman is very good threading and plotting, but it comes at a price as it often feels decompressed and quite slow resulting in lots of episodes that are "prologues" or introductions to the actual plot while others serve to move the plot forward.
Considering how many books are being published and the different purposes Hickman has established in each book this is not helping to read a cohesive story.

Some Xmen issues have been extremely good, very self contained, making us want more.
However this issue did feel quite flat and uninteresting as it doesnt really go much deeper into Vulcan's big mystery (as hinted in previous issues, the original Vulcan might be alive...) neither move any other plot.

Its been 10 issues and we barely scratched any House of X/Powers of X stuff yet, Im hoping this crossover "X of Swords" really starts moving the plot forward as I think there are many stuff to be developed and told that are extremely interesting and Im growing bored of waiting for it to start.

Its like the New Mutants hype, I really want to watch the movie but after two years of delays I feel like I just dont care anymore if they delay it yet again, do you understand what I mean?

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medium13
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by medium13 » 30 Jul 2020, 18:21

I too found the constant references to alcohol and trauma to be odd and unsettling both with regard to my own experiences as well the lens of the effect on the objective reader. My reading of the text, especially the line referencing remembering the trauma but having no emotional connection or feeling about it indicated that all of their minds had been altered to change their internal relationship to that trauma. Perhaps I read it wrong, but it made me infer that this is the exact choice Domino has in front of her in X-Force, and that several of the resurrected characters have had their traumas altered, not in aw ay in which they don't remember but in a way that they don't have the corresponding feelings.

That being said, I liked this issue. I love the art and I think this is setting up a conflict for Vulcan, and potentially many citizens of Krakoa that highlights outward presentation and the effects of trauma internally.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Jul 2020, 18:30

It wasn’t hinted that the original Vulcan was alive...that was a guess people made. Instead, as we see those are the memories of this (the real) Vulcan. These memories were altered (as well as his personality) by those green alien folks.
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Red Strings
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Red Strings » 30 Jul 2020, 18:47

I must admit that I've been enjoying Hickman's run generally and overall enjoy this weird cultish set up (under the belief that it won't last beyond Hickman's run). That being said, I did not enjoy this issue. This is for a variety of reasons (not just the subject matter).

I'll get one thing out of the way first; I do enjoy the decompressed story telling we get nowadays in comics, I feel like I get an issue and read it and... nothing really happens. Even the downtime issues in the Claremont days felt jampacked. This? Okay Petra, Sway and Vulcan are alcoholics and there was a little battle. We barely even scratched the surface of, well, anything. But this is probably just comics nowadays so I'll slide on over it.

Now, with regards to Petra and Sway. I get it. Okay I get it. They're alcoholics to deal with past trauma and that's completely understandable and I'm actually kind of behind the plot as it stands. Even their behaviour, I understand it, I've known plenty of people to act in that exact way (even myself in the past) and that's fine. My problem is the way this is being handled and, indeed, the way they've always been handled since their inception; supporting characters to further along a male's role (Gabriel and Darwin back in DG) and now just Gabriel. I'm going to be watching how this plays out very carefully because if we get some characterisation and development for them, get inside their heads so to speak, I won't mind, if done right it could be extremely interesting. On the other hand, if they continue to be bit players (comic relief alcoholic party animals) to further Gabriel's plotline, I'm not going to be impressed.

I trust Hickman so I hope he has something up his sleeve but this issue was the first one of this X-Men run (this specific title) that let me down.

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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by norwichchris » 30 Jul 2020, 19:08

Blackcyclops wrote:
30 Jul 2020, 15:54
“plainly obvious”?
Well of course it is they are not going to continue with this story arc forever many of the characters are behaving very oddly and out of character so something is clearly wrong there.

The general feel of most of the storylines I get is that it will all lead to disaster and then reset. This is why I disliked the Hox/Pox storyline to begin with it seemed they are turning the X-men into villains when all they ever do is save people and try ensure mutantkind has a future.

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Tessa1984
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Tessa1984 » 30 Jul 2020, 19:44

Blackcyclops wrote:
30 Jul 2020, 18:30
It wasn’t hinted that the original Vulcan was alive...that was a guess people made. Instead, as we see those are the memories of this (the real) Vulcan. These memories were altered (as well as his personality) by those green alien folks.
This is what I came away thinking too, but that contradicts what's hinted at in this breakdown of issue #8 from Marvel:
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/ ... in-x-men-8

They suggest Vulcan never died and that there's two of them out there, as many here have suggested.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Jul 2020, 19:54

I’ll take the word of the actual text (until it contradicts itself) versus a promotional text...especially with all these delays and changes of plans.
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Tessa1984
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Re: X-Men #10

Post by Tessa1984 » 30 Jul 2020, 19:58

Blackcyclops wrote:
30 Jul 2020, 19:54
I’ll take the word of the actual text (until it contradicts itself) versus a promotional text...especially with all these delays and changes of plans.
That’s what I was thinking too.

Also, count me among those who are not fans of all these depictions of excessive drinking across the X-titles. As someone with a history of dependence, it can get a bit obnoxious. I feel it’s actually going somewhere with Petra and Sway, but the nonstop partying we see, Kitty and Boom-Boom binge drinking, etc. is a bit much.

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