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X-Men #8

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Blackcyclops
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X-Men #8

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Mar 2020, 10:34

The most X-Men-y issue of X-Men yet...My favorite by far...

Also Magik opening portals for Cyclops to blast through is the new “Siryn screams in Dazzler so she can blast Juggernaut” or “a Priest blesses Iceman so all his ice is holy water to kill vamps”...LOVED it!!!!


So perhaps Vulcan never died...which begs the question why his behavior has changed?

Also, cool to see that Broo being included in the celebration was intended but he hasnt left my other fave book (Agents of Wakanda).

And always here for some Kid Gladiator..:
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XtremeOne1
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by XtremeOne1 » 11 Mar 2020, 13:41

I think 'why is character acting strangely' at this point needs to just go to bad characterization. Hickman can't write a good majority of these characters. But that's balanced by this new direction he sent this x-books in, great writing(to some) and comics that produce fun debates, so I say we're more forgiving.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Mar 2020, 13:48

Idk...I think Vulcan might actually be somebody (along with Rahne) that feels soooooo sharp a departure that you still gotta question it. It’s not as though he forgot everything about Vulcan, he clearly references his “death” and WOK...I’ve been hard on the character feel off beat but this one feels significant...idk
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tokenBG1009
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by tokenBG1009 » 11 Mar 2020, 13:56

Vulcan, Rahne, and Sunspot are all characters that are so far off from how they've recently/normally been portrayed that if Hickman doesn't have an answer for it I'll be even more disappointed. Storm is a character I'd argue is more "Hickman can't write this character" territory. Which is weird because there are moments where he knocks "characters he can't write" out of the park. Storm, again, is an example of this.

Is Vulcan still acting like he did in X-Men 1?
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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Mar 2020, 14:01

Yeah, Storm is like off just enough but not soooo weird that you’re like “is this a doppleganger”.

Whereas Vulcan is acting as though he never had that mental break (to be fair to Vulcan, the trauma of what he endured would probably break most actual human beings)...

In this issue, he’s Calmer and more level headed than he was pre-“death” and also kind of jokey but he’s less “jolly gee-williker Batman”...but thinking about it, I wonder if he’s actually had some type of psychic therapy too...because he still remembers being in the Fault it looks like. And the book acknowledges the events of WoK.
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Flapflop
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Flapflop » 11 Mar 2020, 14:43

Blackcyclops wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 10:34
So perhaps Vulcan never died...which begs the question why his behavior has changed?
I think in fact its obvious: the original (evil) Vulcan is still out there! 8-)

Xavier, thinking Gabriel was dead, resurrected Vulcan but an earlier version with no memories of The Deadly Genesis, Rise and Fall of the Shiar empire and War of Kings Saga.

Maybe the discovery of the real Vulcan in this arc triggers the X-factor series where they have to investigate if mutants are really dead.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Mar 2020, 14:51

Flapflop wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 14:43
Blackcyclops wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 10:34
So perhaps Vulcan never died...which begs the question why his behavior has changed?
I think in fact its obvious: the original (evil) Vulcan is still out there! 8-)

Xavier, thinking Gabriel was dead, resurrected Vulcan but an earlier version with no memories of The Deadly Genesis, Rise and Fall of the Shiar empire and War of Kings Saga.

Maybe the discovery of the real Vulcan in this arc triggers the X-factor series where they have to investigate if mutants are really dead.
How you get that from this issue though?

This issue clearly showed that Vulcan was dreaming of being in the Fault. So how could a newly cloned one have those memories?

It seems wayyyyy more likely that Vulcan never died, survived in the Fault like BB did. And he was rescued or found by the X-Men, Someone either “fixed” his mind or gave him psychic therapy. But nothing is so “obvious” that two Vulcans exist. At least not in this issue it never came across that way...
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Around The Fur
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Around The Fur » 11 Mar 2020, 15:10

Vulcan, Petra and Sway have something going with the comments of their binge drinking being brought up. The X-Men are turning into a bunch of lushes.

Cyclops’s team up with Magik was epic, I hope we get to see more team interactions like this.

I hope we get to see a reaction from the council in this- an intergalactic intrusion into the island deserves a moment of reflection.
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Flapflop » 11 Mar 2020, 15:17

Blackcyclops wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 14:51

How you get that from this issue though?

This issue clearly showed that Vulcan was dreaming of being in the Fault. So how could a newly cloned one have those memories?

It seems wayyyyy more likely that Vulcan never died, survived in the Fault like BB did. And he was rescued or found by the X-Men, Someone either “fixed” his mind or gave him psychic therapy. But nothing is so “obvious” that two Vulcans exist. At least not in this issue it never came across that way...
Because to me a reveal of just the words he never died, while we already know he is alive and back with the X-men, is no real reveal.

That the real one is still alive, that would be a shocking twist.
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Around The Fur
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Around The Fur » 11 Mar 2020, 15:25

Doesn’t Xavier (even with the use of Cerebro) have his limitations on backing up data? It would be unlikely he could capture Vulcan’s memories out in space. So how would he have these memories?
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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Mar 2020, 15:35

But that’s not really a rationale...that’s kinda wish fulfillment, which is fine but that’s like not what I was trying to say with what I saw in the issue.
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comicsfan666
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by comicsfan666 » 11 Mar 2020, 16:42

Flapflop wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 15:17
Blackcyclops wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 14:51

How you get that from this issue though?

This issue clearly showed that Vulcan was dreaming of being in the Fault. So how could a newly cloned one have those memories?

It seems wayyyyy more likely that Vulcan never died, survived in the Fault like BB did. And he was rescued or found by the X-Men, Someone either “fixed” his mind or gave him psychic therapy. But nothing is so “obvious” that two Vulcans exist. At least not in this issue it never came across that way...
Because to me a reveal of just the words he never died, while we already know he is alive and back with the X-men, is no real reveal.

That the real one is still alive, that would be a shocking twist.
Yes, but they should have known Black Bolt was back, so why would they assume Vulcan for available for resurrexion then? When they must establish a kill before that is possible. That's just sloppy.

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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 11 Mar 2020, 16:49

I think quite simply the Shi'ar are wrong, and they just don't know that Vulcan actually died, but was resurrected.

Either that, or there are two Vulcans. Maybe that's what motivates the foundation of X-factor.

Anyway, Cyclops and Magik's team-up was awesome. More of that, please.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Mar 2020, 17:18

The shi’ar being wrong? Sure...


But I still don’t know why “two Vulcans” is where you go to, instead of Vulcan just survived and the X-Men found him and Hickman is either doing a poor job on his characterization or it’s a story elements ...i mean Black Bolt survived.
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Aeon
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Aeon » 11 Mar 2020, 18:02

Either it’s bad writing, or they are all mindfucked from scratch. Petra and Sway sure have the time of their lives on the island which killed them. Or a brutal enemy, suddenly drinking booze with others.

It feels bad reads for me like this Claremont alternative X-Men series years ago.

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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 11 Mar 2020, 18:04

Could be that the dreams are OG Vulcan's attempt to communicate with him. Since he's an Omega, it's plausible he could have become an energy form.

Seems a better alternative than him being mindwiped and every single X-man agreeing to keep their mouths shut.
Aeon wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 18:02
Either it’s bad writing, or they are all mindfucked from scratch. Petra and Sway sure have the time of their lives on the island which killed them. Or a brutal enemy, suddenly drinking booze with others.

It feels bad reads for me like this Claremont alternative X-Men series years ago.
Petra and Sway presumably have no memories of dying at all. Shinobi Shaw didn't, and Domino specifically requested to keep hers.

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Aeon
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Aeon » 11 Mar 2020, 18:14

this has a bad „Scarlett Witch goes crazy after hearing she had kids and her friends kept it a secret“ vibe.

So anybody could go to P+S and tell them that Krakoa once killed them. It’s not a secret to the X-Men about what happened.

Or Charlie killed and resurrected everyone on Krakoa with new/old memories, or is constantly surpressing/adapting everyone with his powers.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Mar 2020, 18:45

See I wouldn’t go as far as mindwipe...but psychic therapy of some sort or even psychic.

If Vulcan is having dreams about his time in the Fault then he either 1)had to experience it or 2)another version of him is alive in the Fault and sending him mental messages...

The former is more straightforward, is easier to explain and fits more with the story being built up about the consequences of paradise.

The latter would mean that they resurrected Vulcan without checking, kept from him all the memories of his previous actions (thus denying his victims any compensation) and everyone is acting like none of it happened. If that’s true then yes, the X-Men are shitty people. But also its way more complicated for no reason...And again BB survived and got out, so why couldn’t Vulcan?

Petra and Sway could have totally died, known they’ve died, but through psychic therapy (and drinking and partying...plus living on the Moon) and just basking in the euphoria of it all have come to terms with their death and returns. To me that just feels more like thr correct answet, regardless of how much it fits with what I want.
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InsipidLust
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by InsipidLust » 11 Mar 2020, 18:54

Their touching on Vulcan working through a trauma he can't quite remember seems obviously significant, but there's little to signal what that will actually lead two. The original Vulcan could still be alive—and we could be dealing with a clone who should not exist. Or this could be the original Vulcan, with some repressed (intentionally or not) trauma. Or, who knows?

That said... It's still so early in so many plot threads that it remains a wonder to me that people feel the need to draw a hard and fast conclusion about the various aspects of this run when so many things are clearly meant to be mysteries for now.

Whether you think Hickman is a good writer or not, I've never, ever known him to leave things dangling. Love the discussion, but, like, some patience for narrative would probably alleviate a lot of people's anxiety. Not every storyline needs to happen or to be resolved in 1-5 issues.
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Oldmanlogan79 » 11 Mar 2020, 19:22

InsipidLust wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 18:54

Whether you think Hickman is a good writer or not, I've never, ever known him to leave things dangling. Love the discussion, but, like, some patience for narrative would probably alleviate a lot of people's anxiety. Not every storyline needs to happen or to be resolved in 1-5 issues.
AMEN...looks like lots of people in the fandom are constantly up for 12 issues runs...its the opposite of what we need, and the opposite I think Hickman came for...
I personally would prefer to discover the mysteries of the series from here to eternity. I'm in no hurry, and I think that it is precisely what a series that takes about 60 years needs to be interesting and disturbing again, that is, to be what it was.
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Aeon
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Aeon » 11 Mar 2020, 19:31

I am not in a hurry, but the amount of things touched, ambiguous or cryptic hints and dialogues,.. is becoming more and more and spread over a half dozen comics. It’s hard and brainwrecking to keep track on everything.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Mar 2020, 19:35

Aeon wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 19:31
I am not in a hurry, but the amount of things touched, ambiguous or cryptic hints and dialogues,.. is becoming more and more and spread over a half dozen comics. It’s hard and brainwrecking to keep track on everything.
Yeah I mean I’m in no rush (hope I never come across that way). Its usually just me trying to make sense of what I see in the particular issue...just like with the TRO stuff
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Oldmanlogan79 » 11 Mar 2020, 19:41

Since Watchmen came to my shelve (long time ago), I love brainwrecking stuff the better..Im enjoying this stuff even more than Morrison´s run, and that was 18 years ago, Im so old man...I need this kind of stuff to keep on reading marvel books...
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Re: X-Men #8

Post by norwichchris » 11 Mar 2020, 19:45

It was alright like the return of the Brood and Broo, they are like the X-men ultimate Alien enemies

With regards to Vulcan being dead in page #8 it states both Blackbolt and Vulcan survived. So there are only two options he was either completely mind wiped and what he is experiencing is residual traces of his old life or he was resurrected from before he ever went to Krakoa and had some false memories implanted.

Also there is no way to know if he was dead and they would never have read his mind after he came back and was too faraway in deep space.

Suspect its probably the latter if you think about hard why is everyone normal around him he did try to and succeeded in killing a bunch of them and does not seem to be as powerful as before.

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Re: X-Men #8

Post by Tessa1984 » 11 Mar 2020, 20:19

Oldmanlogan79 wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 19:41
Since Watchmen came to my shelve (long time ago), I love brainwrecking stuff the better..Im enjoying this stuff even more than Morrison´s run, and that was 18 years ago, Im so old man...I need this kind of stuff to keep on reading marvel books...
I couldn’t agree more! Hickman has reignited my interest in X-Men in a way I wasn’t sure was possible anymore. This isn’t to say I don’t enjoy an easy read now and then, but my preference is clear.

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