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New Mutants #7

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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Blackcyclops » 23 Feb 2020, 01:20

Yeah its definitely subjective (because I disagree with most of your assessment)...so to me, so far I don’t know if its changes to Rahne (since that’s the real subject here given the issue) or just some wonky characterization.
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XtremeOne1
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by XtremeOne1 » 23 Feb 2020, 14:31

I mean, there has been consistent character issues, when it comes to Hickman, and outside of Kitty/Kate, most characters have been on point. I think Hickman just struggles with certain characters(especially female ones. I think his Roberto is more him wanting to write a cocky playboy, character history be damned)

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Tessa1984
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Tessa1984 » 23 Feb 2020, 16:48

tokenBG1009 wrote:
23 Feb 2020, 00:10
I'm gonna admit, I haven't really noticed Jean acting all that different. Yes, there's the Marvel Girl outfit, but she's seemed pretty normal to me. Welcome to have someone point out her weirdness though and is it more "Hickman writes her weird" or has she been weird in X-Force as well?
HoX #4 is what stands out most to me. It wasn't just the Marvel Girl outfit that gave me teen Jean vibes. She came off so nervous and not like the competent adult we've all come to know.

"I dunno what to say, Marvel Girl. Try harder." Ooooof.

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XtremeOne1
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by XtremeOne1 » 23 Feb 2020, 17:31

I think her Suzy Homemaker vibe she had in X-Men #1 was pretty off too, especially coming off X-Men: Red. But it's the whole Marvel Girl aspect that's off about her. But again, that's more HIckman. She's perfectly fine in X-Force.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Blackcyclops » 23 Feb 2020, 19:55

And I’d push back on Kate being off but I don’t wanna make another thread about her lol
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Fenix
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Fenix » 24 Feb 2020, 10:02

I will always hold a grudge against Hickman for making Jean die like that.

I always imagined Jean dying as Huks (seemingly) died in Generation Next (AoA) fighting.
He gave me, instead, a totally different character, a victim and not a fighter. Without explanations.

Never.Forget.

Since then I cant see his Jean the same.
Percy is actually showing that our Jean is still there, but... is Jean's real personality coming out? are we seeing different character personalities because different/bad writing? is there something else going on?
To be honest, sometimes i think Hickman in Xmen is inconsistent with his previous work in FF/Avengers (where I never noticed these kind of "mistakes") but sometimes I think he might be up to something as his plot is so big and twisted that It feels hard to predict what's next.

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tokenBG1009
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by tokenBG1009 » 25 Feb 2020, 01:21

Blackcyclops wrote:
23 Feb 2020, 19:55
And I’d push back on Kate being off but I don’t wanna make another thread about her lol
Devil's advocate.

Kate is off. She has, to my recollection, never acted like this before. Thus, she could be said to be acting out of character. We have given reason to why she's acting this way, but we are only making assumptions for the actions she's taken. It could be all the drinking, and the drinking could be due to the fear/stress of her Krakoan status, but it hasn't really been addressed in the books. Duggan, for all we know, may have just wanted her to embrace the pirate role.

The rest of the characters people are believing to be out of character haven't really had much defense given to them. We've done the same thing for them, theorizing reasons for their behavior, but it's the same as for Kate. We don't really KNOW. We can only assume. It's weird for me to say this, considering how vocal I've been about my criticism of Hickman, but he COULD have a reason for writing these characters the way he has.

/Devil's advocate.

Hickman has just been laying an absolute pile when it comes to writing certain characters and it's infuriating.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

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northy33
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by northy33 » 25 Feb 2020, 11:13

reading almost all of the new status of mutants/x-men after HOX/POX I have to admit that I do not know yet enough about MOST OF THE IMPORTANT circumstances regarding resurrection protocols (! ominous !) and particularly Xavier's backups of well - people (sidenote - is anyone familiar with season 6 of "the 100"? it has some of the same questions regarding personality-changes etc. you guys discussed here).
Thus I would assume, that we get - maybe - more conclusive explanation in future comics regarding the questions how - and why - resurrected people change.
Regarding all of the New Mutants depicted here including Rahne I must admit, that - while I enjoy the book itself - it is NOT like new mutants before to me. MAYBE that is the point - maybe we should not expect books or characters to be or act 'the same'. To be more plain - after House of M and Wanda there WAS definitly a totally different act necessary - leading into new stories and somehow ending with Hope/AvX-Men. To me HoM is the only possible comparable story line with such huge changes. BUT the story - decimation vs. no-more-sticking-death-in-a-nation-united - IS too different to compare. Thus I am still giving the benefit of the doubt regarding charaterisation and changes.
Maybe.
let the play begin.

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Aeon
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Aeon » 25 Feb 2020, 11:17

Hickmann is doings way to much work to focus his full attention to the characters. How many Marvel titles is he (co) writing at the moment? He basically oversees the whole X franchise now. And from what I read he is also writing his own comic at the moment.

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tokenBG1009
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by tokenBG1009 » 25 Feb 2020, 11:53

I don't think he's continuing with New Mutants is he? So he's only doing 2 books as far as I know.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Blackcyclops » 25 Feb 2020, 11:55

One book is just a 5 issue LS...
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Anna Raven
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Anna Raven » 25 Feb 2020, 13:53

Aeon wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 11:17
Hickmann is doings way to much work to focus his full attention to the characters. How many Marvel titles is he (co) writing at the moment? He basically oversees the whole X franchise now. And from what I read he is also writing his own comic at the moment.
The only ongoing comic he has going at Image is the Dying and the Dead, and he hasn't put out an issue since 2017. So I doubt it's taking up any of his time right now.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Blackcyclops » 25 Feb 2020, 13:55

@token: Like I said, I’m not going to make another thread about Kate. I’ll just say I disagree with your post on a fundamental level.::
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

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tokenBG1009
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by tokenBG1009 » 25 Feb 2020, 13:57

Blackcyclops wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 13:55
@token: Like I said, I’m not going to make another thread about Kate. I’ll just say I disagree with your post on a fundamental level.::
Then PM me because I'm interested in your thoughts.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

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Aeon
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Aeon » 25 Feb 2020, 14:05

Soooorryyyyyy!

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Anna Raven
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Anna Raven » 25 Feb 2020, 14:49

Aeon wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 14:05
Soooorryyyyyy!
It's ok. :D
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InsipidLust
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by InsipidLust » 25 Feb 2020, 19:07

tokenBG1009 wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 01:21
Blackcyclops wrote:
23 Feb 2020, 19:55
And I’d push back on Kate being off but I don’t wanna make another thread about her lol
Devil's advocate.

Kate is off. She has, to my recollection, never acted like this before. Thus, she could be said to be acting out of character. We have given reason to why she's acting this way, but we are only making assumptions for the actions she's taken. It could be all the drinking, and the drinking could be due to the fear/stress of her Krakoan status, but it hasn't really been addressed in the books. Duggan, for all we know, may have just wanted her to embrace the pirate role.

The rest of the characters people are believing to be out of character haven't really had much defense given to them. We've done the same thing for them, theorizing reasons for their behavior, but it's the same as for Kate. We don't really KNOW. We can only assume. It's weird for me to say this, considering how vocal I've been about my criticism of Hickman, but he COULD have a reason for writing these characters the way he has.

/Devil's advocate.

Hickman has just been laying an absolute pile when it comes to writing certain characters and it's infuriating.
I just want to point out that the book has stated that Kate has been feeling VERY stressed about her Krakoan status and I don’t know why they’d mention that if it wasn’t meant to a be specific allusion to her behavior. Similarly, in-text, its been mentioned somewhat explicitly IIRC that the other characters are being overprotective of Kate—hence their unusual brutality. OUT of text, I also know that Duggan mentioned that the characters are (in his view) responding to lethal force with appropriate stopping power that is short of killing but reasonably respectful of the seriousness of the threats they face. We don’t have to agree with that, but it makes sense, and I only bring all of this up HERE to point out that whatever is happening in Marauders seems meaningfully different from what we are seeing in New Mutants.
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XtremeOne1
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by XtremeOne1 » 25 Feb 2020, 23:55

Aeon wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 11:17
Hickmann is doings way to much work to focus his full attention to the characters. How many Marvel titles is he (co) writing at the moment? He basically oversees the whole X franchise now. And from what I read he is also writing his own comic at the moment.
Characters are crucial to any story, so I'm not sure how 'he's not focusing on characters' is a good excuse to shoddy character work.

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Aeon
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by Aeon » 26 Feb 2020, 00:06

XtremeOne1 wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 23:55
Aeon wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 11:17
Hickmann is doings way to much work to focus his full attention to the characters. How many Marvel titles is he (co) writing at the moment? He basically oversees the whole X franchise now. And from what I read he is also writing his own comic at the moment.
Characters are crucial to any story, so I'm not sure how 'he's not focusing on characters' is a good excuse to shoddy character work.
1. I already said sorry

2. I am not the smartest person on this planet, but I think it’s difficult to focus on characterization when writing multiple series and overviewing the whole HoX PoX DoX progress, of which basically he was the one who started the whole new status quo. How many different and new characters did he write since House and Powes? Dozens of X-Men, these new scientists, the future characters, the enemies. I am nit defending him, I don’t like a lot of stuff he changed. Just saying that I feel he focuses on some characters more or less with the characterization.

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tokenBG1009
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Re: New Mutants #7

Post by tokenBG1009 » 26 Feb 2020, 03:09

InsipidLust wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 19:07
tokenBG1009 wrote:
25 Feb 2020, 01:21
Blackcyclops wrote:
23 Feb 2020, 19:55
And I’d push back on Kate being off but I don’t wanna make another thread about her lol
Devil's advocate.

Kate is off. She has, to my recollection, never acted like this before. Thus, she could be said to be acting out of character. We have given reason to why she's acting this way, but we are only making assumptions for the actions she's taken. It could be all the drinking, and the drinking could be due to the fear/stress of her Krakoan status, but it hasn't really been addressed in the books. Duggan, for all we know, may have just wanted her to embrace the pirate role.

The rest of the characters people are believing to be out of character haven't really had much defense given to them. We've done the same thing for them, theorizing reasons for their behavior, but it's the same as for Kate. We don't really KNOW. We can only assume. It's weird for me to say this, considering how vocal I've been about my criticism of Hickman, but he COULD have a reason for writing these characters the way he has.

/Devil's advocate.

Hickman has just been laying an absolute pile when it comes to writing certain characters and it's infuriating.
I just want to point out that the book has stated that Kate has been feeling VERY stressed about her Krakoan status and I don’t know why they’d mention that if it wasn’t meant to a be specific allusion to her behavior. Similarly, in-text, its been mentioned somewhat explicitly IIRC that the other characters are being overprotective of Kate—hence their unusual brutality. OUT of text, I also know that Duggan mentioned that the characters are (in his view) responding to lethal force with appropriate stopping power that is short of killing but reasonably respectful of the seriousness of the threats they face. We don’t have to agree with that, but it makes sense, and I only bring all of this up HERE to point out that whatever is happening in Marauders seems meaningfully different from what we are seeing in New Mutants.
Then go ahead and toss my comment about Kate. I'd thought we were told that but I couldn't remember.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

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