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X-Men #6

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Lavettye
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Lavettye » 20 Feb 2020, 13:34

P-90 wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 00:36
I agree, I think NorwichChris was just giving a probable reason why the subject has been mostly ignored by creators in the past, not a personally held opinion on the subject.
I don't buy that. As you say he did provide this probable reason, but then called it understandable... and he knew that it would be offensive. Why else try apologize for it.
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P-90
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by P-90 » 20 Feb 2020, 14:31

Lavettye wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 13:34
P-90 wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 00:36
I agree, I think NorwichChris was just giving a probable reason why the subject has been mostly ignored by creators in the past, not a personally held opinion on the subject.
I don't buy that. As you say he did provide this probable reason, but then called it understandable... and he knew that it would be offensive. Why else try apologize for it.
Some people, myself included, aren't always able to adequately express their intent so I'm willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'

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Anna Raven
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Anna Raven » 20 Feb 2020, 16:12

Blackcyclops wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 00:47
I missed the News coverage but to be fair for me I only get comic news from CBr, Newsarama and Marvel.com and only CBR wrote about it and it wasn’t anything crazy...shoot they just made a post about Domino lol
I think that's kind of a good thing, or at least progress. The fact that a gay relationship is seen as basically normal, so no need for fanfare, especially since we all kind of knew it all along.

If I am misreading the situation, I apologize. I could also see where one could argue "No, we aren't there yet, and gay relationships need all the good press they can get."
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Aeon
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Aeon » 20 Feb 2020, 16:16

Anna Raven wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 16:12

I think that's kind of a good thing, or at least progress. The fact that a gay relationship is seen as basically normal, so no need for fanfare, especially since we all kind of knew it all along.
I basically said the same thing and everybody sharpened their pitchforks again :lol:

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Anna Raven
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Anna Raven » 20 Feb 2020, 16:18

Aeon wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 16:16
Anna Raven wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 16:12

I think that's kind of a good thing, or at least progress. The fact that a gay relationship is seen as basically normal, so no need for fanfare, especially since we all kind of knew it all along.
I basically said the same thing and everybody sharpened their pitchforks again :lol:
Oh dear, well I apologize in advance then.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Blackcyclops » 20 Feb 2020, 16:37

Aeon wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 16:16
Anna Raven wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 16:12

I think that's kind of a good thing, or at least progress. The fact that a gay relationship is seen as basically normal, so no need for fanfare, especially since we all kind of knew it all along.
I basically said the same thing and everybody sharpened their pitchforks again :lol:

Oh lawd lol...

And if we’re being honest this:
Aeon wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 18:35
No, but nowadays everything what’s supposed to be normal is being treated like a big deal.
Is so couched in passive aggressive eye-rolling that the two (if they were actually aiming their responses to you) posters can be forgiven for not seeing that as the same thing as Anna said lol...your post reads like I said: a simultaneous attack on progressives for complaining but also an attack on Conservatives’ idea on what is normal, an almost admirable hat-trick lol
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Aeon
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Aeon » 20 Feb 2020, 16:48

Sooooorrrryyyyyyy!!!

Wow, my therapist was right, that really is better than discussing with you folks.

👍🏻👍🏻🌟

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Re: X-Men #6

Post by EphemeristX » 20 Feb 2020, 17:24

For Mystique to plainly say "wife" instead of "leman" or "old friend" or "love", all of which can easily be misconstrued by those unwilling to see Raven as queer, is a big step for the book. We all know now that Claremont fully wrote Mystique and Destiny as a couple, but he definitely had to code them as queer rather than explicitly state it outright. Alot of fiction had to be coded queer in the 70s and 80s because of religious groups and their influence over mass media.
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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by norwichchris » 21 Feb 2020, 19:06

Lavettye wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 22:42
So splash pages of violence, guns, claws, maimed bodies and all are okay, but the love between two consenting adults is harmful to children?

That notion is indeed offensive and a mere "sorry" doesn't change that at all.
Hi, to explain my post firstly would like to apologise to any offence i may have caused you. I admit was going to delete that last post as it did when i read it sounded offensive.

I meant that the comic at that time had to be careful what it prints and I never said I agree with it. It just came out very badly wrong, the world was very different then and everything changes.

I have no problem whatsoever with homosexuality being expressed in comics at all ever., I have had Gay friends in the past/present and never had any illwill towards them.

I'm not very good at expressing my views online, I only came here to discuss about my favourite comics and ended up insulting everyone and being accused of being a racist or not reading them by you which I was a bit upset by as I did.

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Lavettye
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Lavettye » 21 Feb 2020, 20:50

norwichchris wrote:
21 Feb 2020, 19:06
I meant that the comic at that time had to be careful what it prints and I never said I agree with it.
Yes, you did. In your earlier post you said that "comics are normally aimed at children or young adults so yes they do need to be a bit careful of content so it's understandable."
That's your own writing and there in the end it says understandable, which mean you do agree with it. It's not "I can see why Marvel did this, but I don't agree with it". Nope, you called what they did "understandable".
I'm not very good at expressing my views online, I only came here to discuss about my favourite comics and ended up insulting everyone…
So why do you keep doing it? Seriously, if you KNOW that you aren't very good at expressing your views online, then you should also know by now to steer clear of such delicate subjects as race, sexuality, politics, etc.

How many more times do you want to repeat this pattern. You write something without fully understanding the meaning of the words you are using, offend someone in the process, only to then say "Sorry, I didn't mean to". Your "Sorry" becomes less meaningful each time you use it without changing your behaviour. If you truly are sorry, then STOP repeating the same mistake. Either don't comment on such delicate subjects or improve your language skills. (Personally, though, I don't think your language skills are the main problem here. For example I have a very hard time believing that you couldn't anticipate that accusing a character of "racial prejudice" implied that the character is "racist")
... and being accused of being a racist or not reading them by you which I was a bit upset by as I did.
So, you end your apology by mentioning another incident where you got upset over something that somebody else did to you … :?
No matter what your first language is (and mine is English either) THAT never works and shows how heart-felt your apology truly is. Keep it, I'm not buying it.

For the record, I questioned if you actually read the issues because you constantly misrepresented what happened in them or in the middle of an ongoing conversation you asked totally out of the blue questions like "When was Iceman outed as gay?" as if that were a new development.
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P-90
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by P-90 » 21 Feb 2020, 23:16

Lavettye wrote:
21 Feb 2020, 20:50
norwichchris wrote:
21 Feb 2020, 19:06
I meant that the comic at that time had to be careful what it prints and I never said I agree with it.
Yes, you did. In your earlier post you said that "comics are normally aimed at children or young adults so yes they do need to be a bit careful of content so it's understandable."
That's your own writing and there in the end it says understandable, which mean you do agree with it. It's not "I can see why Marvel did this, but I don't agree with it". Nope, you called what they did "understandable".
I'm not very good at expressing my views online, I only came here to discuss about my favourite comics and ended up insulting everyone…
So why do you keep doing it? Seriously, if you KNOW that you aren't very good at expressing your views online, then you should also know by now to steer clear of such delicate subjects as race, sexuality, politics, etc.

How many more times do you want to repeat this pattern. You write something without fully understanding the meaning of the words you are using, offend someone in the process, only to then say "Sorry, I didn't mean to". Your "Sorry" becomes less meaningful each time you use it without changing your behaviour. If you truly are sorry, then STOP repeating the same mistake. Either don't comment on such delicate subjects or improve your language skills. (Personally, though, I don't think your language skills are the main problem here. For example I have a very hard time believing that you couldn't anticipate that accusing a character of "racial prejudice" implied that the character is "racist")
... and being accused of being a racist or not reading them by you which I was a bit upset by as I did.
So, you end your apology by mentioning another incident where you got upset over something that somebody else did to you … :?
No matter what your first language is (and mine is English either) THAT never works and shows how heart-felt your apology truly is. Keep it, I'm not buying it.

For the record, I questioned if you actually read the issues because you constantly misrepresented what happened in them or in the middle of an ongoing conversation you asked totally out of the blue questions like "When was Iceman outed as gay?" as if that were a new development.
Wow, just wow, you may genuinely believe the worst of this person (though it does seem you've made a conscious choice to do so) but the fact is you don't have a single shred of definitive proof regarding the 'true' intent of his posts so you're arrogant self righteous attitude is hugely unwarranted and it just comes across as bullying, also you don't have any more right to comment on certain subjects as anyone else, even if somebody actually does have views that differ from your own you don't get to police what people should and shouldn't comment on.
And frankly, whether you're 'buying' his apology or not is meaningless, you're opinion is just that, you're own, you're not some sort of chosen arbiter. 'Improve your language skills' again, wow, I'd assume someone who stated they weren't conversing in their first language would be more considerate and helpful towards others in the same situation.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'

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Aeon
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Aeon » 21 Feb 2020, 23:29

Guys, we are not on Twitter!

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Lavettye
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Lavettye » 22 Feb 2020, 00:32

P-90,
wow just wow, you may genuinely believe the worst of ME …. and so on. How is what you just posted any different from what you are accusing me of ?
And frankly, whether you're 'buying' his apology or not is meaningless, you're opinion is just that, you're own,
Considering that I am one of the people norwichchris was trying to apologize to, ("apologize to any offence I may have caused") I'd say it should matter whether I believe his apology and would be willing to accept it. Maybe not to you, but to him.
I'd assume someone who stated they weren't conversing in their first language would be more considerate and helpful towards others in the same situation.
I was. It's been going on for weeks. Several others and I have been explaining story bits to norwhichchris, pointing out that he was misreading or misunderstanding things, only for him to time and again go back and forth between either insisting on his unfounded reading of storylines or saying we were right and he was sorry,... often also contradicting himself within the matter of just two posts.

I mean how can you even get these two of his statements to match?
norwichchris wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 18:15
It was plainly obvious way back in the 90s they were a couple or truly loved each other during the Legionquest story when Mystique tried to kill Legion as she blamed him for her death.
norwichchris wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 22:23
Never thought Mystique was even remotely queer as she can shape shift.
Which is it? Was it obvious to him they were a couple, or had he no idea of Mystique being queer?

And along the way of all these oddities and "misunderstandings" he made some insensitive comments, just like he did in this thread by "suggesting that depicting homosexual relationships would be offensive to children", as Tessa put it. I've had enough of it, and am no longer willing to give him the benefit of the doubt… and I'm as much allowed to express that, as you are to criticize me for doing so.
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P-90
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by P-90 » 22 Feb 2020, 01:34

Lavettye wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 00:32
P-90,
wow just wow, you may genuinely believe the worst of ME …. and so on. How is what you just posted any different from what you are accusing me of ?
And frankly, whether you're 'buying' his apology or not is meaningless, you're opinion is just that, you're own,
Considering that I am one of the people norwichchris was trying to apologize to, ("apologize to any offence I may have caused") I'd say it should matter whether I believe his apology and would be willing to accept it. Maybe not to you, but to him.
I'd assume someone who stated they weren't conversing in their first language would be more considerate and helpful towards others in the same situation.
I was. It's been going on for weeks. Several others and I have been explaining story bits to norwhichchris, pointing out that he was misreading or misunderstanding things, only for him to time and again go back and forth between either insisting on his unfounded reading of storylines or saying we were right and he was sorry,... often also contradicting himself within the matter of just two posts.

I mean how can you even get these two of his statements to match?
norwichchris wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 18:15
It was plainly obvious way back in the 90s they were a couple or truly loved each other during the Legionquest story when Mystique tried to kill Legion as she blamed him for her death.
norwichchris wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 22:23
Never thought Mystique was even remotely queer as she can shape shift.
Which is it? Was it obvious to him they were a couple, or had he no idea of Mystique being queer?

And along the way of all these oddities and "misunderstandings" he made some insensitive comments, just like he did in this thread by "suggesting that depicting homosexual relationships would be offensive to children", as Tessa put it. I've had enough of it, and am no longer willing to give him the benefit of the doubt… and I'm as much allowed to express that, as you are to criticize me for doing so.
I wasn't criticising you for expressing an opinion but for outright telling someone what they should or shouldn't comment on. Given NC's posts I'd say if there is some sort of deception it feels more like trolling than an effort to hide genuine bigotry, otherwise what's the point, if so then any emotional response just feeds the troll, don't waste your time.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Feb 2020, 02:00

To be fair, if it is trolling, it’s always easier to tell someone to “don’t feed the troll” when they aren’t trolling your own identity or sense of being...Even when its not trolling, it’s understandable if someone has an adverse reaction to something they feel is targeting them. You yourself have had your own moments of emotional explosions when you thought others (myself included) were someone personally attacking you (you did, thankfully, see that wasnt the case). So I think, since we’re talking about empathy, you can empathize about that...
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XtremeOne1
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by XtremeOne1 » 22 Feb 2020, 06:14

All,

Please refrain from personal attacks. No calling each other trolls or bullies or arrogant. If you have a problem with a post or poster, report it but please don't take over a thread and argue and name call.

The best advice is to just be mindful of each other. UXN, has always been and will always be, an inclusive forum, and the diversity of people on here reflect that.

Anyway...X-Men #6....

Jesse James II
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Jesse James II » 22 Feb 2020, 06:29

Yeah, I miss the days when we could all share laughs, channel all our frustration and collectively bash on "Bad Idea Bendis", "What the Devil Claremont" or "Porn face Land". 🙄

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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by norwichchris » 23 Feb 2020, 16:11

Lavettye - Firstly have not read X-men comics in many years except the occasional graphic novel I left Marvel comics for a long time due to money issue so forgive me for not being up to date on things.

I did write that statement without thinking how it would be interpreted on this board so yes my apology was genuine towards you. Also was going to delete it quickly as well when i realised how it sounded.

Second I don't why you keep saying I'm trolling you all? where did that come from exactly have I on this board ever made abusive/racist or sexist comments towards anyone or randomly harrassed people on here? I am not that sort of person.

In regards to the comics, I don't really understand the very dramatic change in characterisation so sorry if this has offended you that I am very confused and don't understand.

You are correct should steer clear of all conversation regarding race/sexual orientation as I normally try to avoid them anyway.

Also i have deleted the offensive comment...

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Fenix
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Fenix » 24 Feb 2020, 09:19

This is a comics forums, most of us are just fans talking about comics and themes touched upon our comics.

We are no experts in literature, we have not perfect grammar, some of us might be friends and some others just random anonymous posters with no relationship apart of these forums and it is perfectly normal that sometimes we just write our opinion on something without thinking too much about if it is "correct" or offensive because we are not meaning to be offending.

I did a mistake some years ago (which was far from my intention) in these forums when commenting (I think it was concretely Captain America and the Mighty Avengers) and I got immediately corrected by some users and mods. It was extremely embarrasing as Im not remotely racist but my comment could be read perfectly as such and I felt really bad about it and apologized for it.

We are all humans, we might not find the right wording sometimes or we might be echoing something else.
I think norwichchris sincerely apologized about it, he didn't mean to offend anyone and if he did he deserves the same chance everybody has to make a mistake, apologize and move on.
In case there is a big need of discussing the subject more in detail maybe you can talk using private msgs/whatsapp in order to make some amends but I would strongly suggest to let it go.

A lot of us are gay, I personally understood what he said and didnt really find it that horrible or offensive, Its cool some other point of views have been thrown in and he realized he was not right, he apologized... then we should all move on :-)

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Aeon
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by Aeon » 24 Feb 2020, 09:33

Ahh you know, I learned my lessens here.

I post my opinion, everyone says I am wrong and I am a ...... and a ....... .
I say: sooooorrryyyyyy!

And everything is good again. It really takes the anger, hate, and sadness out of it.

:lol: :lol:

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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #6

Post by norwichchris » 26 Feb 2020, 22:10

Thank you Fenix... from know on I will be careful what I say on this board. Forums are I admit relatively new to me and it will take me time to get used to it, would like to stay please....

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