Welcome to unstablemolecules.com, the discussion home for mightyavengers.net, uncanon.com and uncannyxmen.net!

Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Here you can express your opinions about released issues of the current X-Titles
User avatar
MartijnB
Posts: 902
Joined: 06 May 2012, 12:04

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by MartijnB » 13 Sep 2019, 09:12

so...

something I wanna throw in here


Obviously the Sinister we have always read about was a lot less fabulous than what Hickman is giving us here, then again, "our" Sinister got fairly little time on panel...

... could it be the influence of Thunderbird's powerset? After all, his butchness is basically what got him killed in the first place.

User avatar
tokenBG1009
Posts: 6032
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 20:34

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by tokenBG1009 » 13 Sep 2019, 09:38

Sinister has been pretty cosmopolitan for a while. At least back to Gillen's run if not sooner. I've honestly never been a fan of this interpretation of him.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

User avatar
summerset
Posts: 67
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 14:51

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by summerset » 13 Sep 2019, 10:50

I thought Sinister had Couriers mutant DNA. Remember Courier back in Gambit solo title. When he and Gambit travel back to 1891 and Sinister, still without his morphic abilities, stills a cell from Courier absorbing his abilities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courier_(comics)

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 3586
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by das_boot » 13 Sep 2019, 11:01

Okay, so I want to have a go at interpreting the Sinister Secrets..

#1– I don’t think this relates to Miss Sinister. She was nearly always shown in black thigh-highs. I feel like this could be based on the Hans Christian Anderson story “the red shoes”— basically a girl puts on a pair of red shoes and dances to death. I feel like MAYBE this could be a reference to Sinister’s obsession with Jean and Scott which drove him to his death... how many times? And this was after what Apocalypse did to him in making him Sinister too. I dunno. It could also reference the film of the same name where one of the characters is angry about his work being stolen. Maybe this means that one of the Sinisters is angry that Xavier and Magneto are stealing his work and making clones and that’s why he sided with the human/robot alliance?

#2–“cut down in his prime?”... ugh. This could be nearly anyone. Maybe that plot in Hopeless’ New X-Men where they had those kids idolising adult revolution Cyclops? Maybe?

#3– Maddy had a second baby? Perhaps a demonic one? Or that Sinister managed to clone demonic Maddy? I mean there’s a LOT of Inferno references here guys.

#4– a couple of water references “CURRENT” events, “ASHORE”... maybe Namor? I feel like this definitely references Namor. Sinister would love to get his hands on “the first mutant” as well as a human/Atlantan hybrid... I think this is a Namor reference.

Not sure why Thunderbird would be relevant unless this is a second retcon, implying that John Proudstar was intended as a plant among the X-Men?

#5– okay so Wolverine. “Married with a kid”— I don’t feel like this is Jean (She’s not yet had a kid herself as Rachel hasn’t been born yet, and Cable is Maddy’s kid). PERHAPS another Maddy reference? Is this implying that Wolverine and Maddy had a fling inbetween Scott leaving Maddy and getting back together with Jean, and Maddy turning up again before Inferno? But then the reference is that this is currently happening on Krakoa... CONFUSED

#6– this has got to be Black Womb, surely? I know Ernst fits the Progeria hint better, but she doesn’t have ties to sinister, does she? And the clue about samples makes more sense given that Black Womb was a geneticist was she not?

#7– They’re making Adam-X a Summers Brother, canonically. Either that or Sinister has another Summer’s brother somewhere 🤷‍♂️

#8– I think this is pretty obviously the original four horseman and that could be cool to see

#9– I feel this quite obviously references Jubilee. Maybe she reunites with X-23? The only other non-couples I could think that would fit Jubilee would be Wolverine, Synch, Monet, or maybe Husk? I’d rule out Wolverine because that doesn’t quite fit with the “kids” bit, whereas the others have all been junior X-Men. Either that or did Jubilee ever meet Amiko? Out of all the hints so far, Jubilee seems to be the strangest choice of character to appear on a list of important characters that Sinister would be keeping tabs on beyond a purely “She’s a mutant and therefore i’d like a copy of her DNA” kind of angle.

#10– The Sinister that’s sided with Magneto and Xavier is a double agent. Duh. But for whom? I’d assume the rest of the Sinisters but this could totally be a red herring and perhaps he’s working with/for the humans from the beginning?

Another Inferno reference. And there’s also no sign of Illyana yet. And last time we saw her she was dragged into Limbo as a demon. Perhaps she’s going to be the key to aligning the timelines since we know that Limbo isn’t effected by time the same way that the main MU is. Who’s to say that Limbo would even be remotely effected by Moira’s resurrection cycles?
ASPIRING WRITERS!

Check out the “Writing Challenges” thread in the Uncanon Mess Hall!

User avatar
Lavettye
Posts: 1082
Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 18:33
Location: Germany

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Lavettye » 13 Sep 2019, 11:53

#5 - married with a kid: That's obviously Northstar! He's married, and he adopted a baby in AF #106 shortly before it died. :D Or maybe it's Meggan ? It would be an odd pairing, though, and these human/mutant mixed-couples (Brian & Meggan, Jean-Paul & Kyle) make me wonder how they handle Krakoa's mutants-only policy. Could it be Moira? She was married, she had a kid, and Logan is someone she hasn't dated yet.

Maybe, it is Jean after all, with Rachel being considered the kid in question. It might also go back to earlier hints that pointed at Rachel being the daughter of Jean and Logan, and it would also explain why
Spoiler: show
Logan tags along to space along all members of the Summers and Grey familiy in the upcoming X-Men #1.
Anyway, while I still haven't re-read all issues with Moira in them (which I started doing after HoX #2), this here makes me want to re-read all Sinister appearances.
Last edited by Lavettye on 13 Sep 2019, 11:55, edited 1 time in total.
[PL_2.0]

User avatar
tokenBG1009
Posts: 6032
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 20:34

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by tokenBG1009 » 13 Sep 2019, 12:42

To the surprise of no one... not a fan of it. After PoX 3 brought me down to level with my feelings for this part of the story PoX 4 threw me right back into the camp of wanting it to be over. We're officially 50% into this and there's no resolution in sight. I don't mind Krakoa being a home for the X-Men. Though, at the same time, it feels like it takes them away from the world. I still don't feel like X/Xavier will be the leader in the end though. He's far too out there for that role.

I really can't be the only person who dislikes this version of Sinister?
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 20446
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 13 Sep 2019, 12:49

I know you’ve never liked the idea of Sinister since Gillen revamped him but honestly, outside of Inferno (which in cC’s mind was a completely different character than what came later), what else is there to really like about Sinister before this version? Like I wad into the TAS version but he felt more like this version than the very generic dude in 90s comics. This version adds a personality to Sinister.

Now I can see how the idea of him being a bunch a clones ot whatever could be offputting though. I personally thought it was interesting here because it shows the deprivation and insanity of the idea of this character. It also makes him less High Evolutionary and more Dr. Doom.
Last edited by Blackcyclops on 13 Sep 2019, 16:46, edited 2 times in total.
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
Juggernaut
Posts: 289
Joined: 14 Jun 2014, 02:58

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Juggernaut » 13 Sep 2019, 15:23

Going out on a limb but could the hookup with wolverine be Layla? She has a kid and Jamie has been known to get around. At least with his dupes.

User avatar
Brotha
Posts: 14
Joined: 03 Jul 2007, 05:30

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Brotha » 13 Sep 2019, 16:37

das_boot wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 11:01
Okay, so I want to have a go at interpreting the Sinister Secrets..

#3– Maddy had a second baby? Perhaps a demonic one? Or that Sinister managed to clone demonic Maddy? I mean there’s a LOT of Inferno references here guys.
I could be wrong, but wasn't Maddy still alive after she fought the all female X-men team?
I know that post Secret Wars there was another one running around, but when was the last time the 616 Maddy was seen?
Last edited by Brotha on 13 Sep 2019, 16:41, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Lavettye
Posts: 1082
Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 18:33
Location: Germany

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Lavettye » 13 Sep 2019, 16:38

I also liked the single Sinister, constantly scheeming in the shadows with a long-term agenda better. He seemed more of a menance. Now he's easily knocked over or shot, and new one takes his place. It was okay for me, when he was just uploading himself to a new host body, but these dozens of clone copys of Sinister running around, each of them having different personality traits feels too Madroxy to me.

Do we know when exactly Sinister started being more than one, or was that the point of the flashback to estbalish that it was earlier than the Gillen storys ?
[PL_2.0]

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 20446
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 13 Sep 2019, 16:48

Yeah, like I said, I can see how this particular version versus Gillen’s could be seen as less of a threat. But I think that’s moreso how he was easily dispatched and not his more flamboyant personality. That personality is what Gillen gave him that I think made him way more interesting and less one-dimensional. I mean he was such a threat then that he always took out parts of the Phoenix Five.
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 20446
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 13 Sep 2019, 16:49

The Gillen story was the first eatablished time we saw multiples of him BUT given his presence everywhere before that, it’s possible he was multiples.
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
Majestic
Posts: 350
Joined: 07 Apr 2011, 23:51

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Majestic » 13 Sep 2019, 17:13

If anything, I'd say Sinister as "a system" seems more insurmountable than a lone chessmaster-type villain, but then, while I normally love that particular trope, I honestly don't think Sinister was ever very effective in that capacity. He's always seemed goofy even when trying not to be. (If memory serves, this goofiness was Claremont's intent. I can see why some might have found that dichotomy interesting, though.)

Gillen walked the line between ostentation and menace well with Sinister, I think. (I'm thinking—in particular—of Gillen having Sinister murder and replace Kate Kildare and taunt Scott into breaking out of prison.) Admittedly, there's no menace at all to be had from Hickman's version in this issue, but—given that Sinister's dealing with a united Erik and Charles who both know the future—trying to make him seem like a real threat may very well have been futile, anyway.
BODYSHOP INDUSTRIES (X-Villain Draft) : Spiral, Cameron Hodge, Ahab, Pandemic, The Isolationist, Cylla Markham, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, Sugar Man, Nanny & Orphanmaker

User avatar
Cable
Posts: 4479
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 18:31
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Cable » 13 Sep 2019, 18:44

tokenBG1009 wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 12:42

I really can't be the only person who dislikes this version of Sinister?
No I hate this version as well. He used to be as menacing villain and now he is a buffoon.

I hated that part of this issue and so thought this was the weakest yet but I disagree with those who hate the pacing. I've thought every issue has really given us a lot to digest. Certainly every issue thread has been full of discussion and theories.
Nu-D wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 16:38


But there it gets wonky; Moira lives life one, when she dies the whole of 616 is rebooted. This happens 10 times, and she learns a lot. Still a mystery what happened in Life 6, but we know what happened at the end of Life 10.

I still say the reboot theory is way too complicated and alternate timelines makes more sense. I have not seen those who believe that theory propose yet how to get around that we have seen Moira die in 616 on more than one occasion and yet the world goes on. As you said maybe Hickman will reveal that later, but until then I don't see why we would go with the way more complicated solution over the much simpler.
Best Comics of Week 28

Best X-Comic: X-Force #10 by Benjamin Percy (1) and Joshua Cassara (1)
Best Non-X Comic: Dr. Strange #5 by Mark Waid (1) and Kev Walker (1)

In parentheses number of times creator has had best comic of the week this year

User avatar
Lavettye
Posts: 1082
Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 18:33
Location: Germany

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Lavettye » 13 Sep 2019, 18:59

Moira died more than once in 616 ? What are you refering to? The only time I recall her dying is in the Dream's End crossover, which would then by the faked death via Shi'Ar Golem mentioned in the Chart.
Blackcyclops wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 16:49
The Gillen story was the first eatablished time we saw multiples of him BUT given his presence everywhere before that, it’s possible he was multiples.
I knew in which issues, my question was more aimed at when chronologically. Like, was it said or mentioned in which year or era he started doing it, but I guess it wasn't stated.

#5 - Another married person with a kid and ties to Logan would be Heather Hudson, though she's no mutant and might not be able to live on the island.
Last edited by Lavettye on 13 Sep 2019, 19:02, edited 1 time in total.
[PL_2.0]

User avatar
Fenix
Posts: 603
Joined: 27 Sep 2007, 00:44

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Fenix » 13 Sep 2019, 19:00

Maddy is pretty much alive, or at least she should. So revising her is always a possibility, and its always welcome. Maddy got 2000% more interesting when Cyclops left her to chase Jean Grey and while some storylines after she was "revived" still make me feel uncomfortable (Nate and Maddy? REALLYYY?) her Red Queen activies were definitely funny and very defining and she is a good villain....
... so please, Hickman, more Maddy and her secrets :-)

If you mix Maddy and Sinister then you have a bomb as they have lots of unfinished business that I want to see dealt with.

Regarding Sinister and how he has been developed over the years...
I think he was mysterious, lethal, extremely powerful, grim and dark... and he never needed to be changed into something else.
Sinister is a backstage player, he moves the pieces from behind, he has his own agenda and his pawns, not understanding his long term game or targets are a basis for his whole character, while some stuff has been revealed spoiling the mystery in the process some other aspects should have been kept in absolute darkness.
I would compare Sinister to Wolverine. We really didnt need to know about his past, it made both characters a lot less interesting and didnt really add much to improve the characters as they could have been improved in many ways without revealing their backgrounds.

Gillen gave us a more playful Sinister, and Hickman seems to like this version. However Hickman is also teasing us with several other versions running around making every Sinister we think of possible.
Brubaker and Carey gave us a different Sinister with Messiah Complex, something between the original Sinister and what came afterwards, definitely less powerful.
The whole X-Men Legacy and Ms Sinister storyline that Carey developed later approached Sinister very differently, somehow copying the Twelve story arc idea making several people possible new Mr Sinisters (which makes sense knowing who is Sinister and what is his relationship with Apocalypse).

I think the best Sinister was offered to us in Inferno, Hickman knows it as he seems to be very fond of that storyline as well, so we will see what goes on with the good old Nathaniel.

I cant wait to see what is going to happen next, the whole story is getting very confusing and complex and we have only 4 issues left to, somehow, close this concrete story opening the Dawn of X stories, right?

User avatar
Quick and Dead
Posts: 2150
Joined: 12 Feb 2009, 19:34
Location: New York City
Contact:

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Quick and Dead » 13 Sep 2019, 19:08

das_boot wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 11:01
#6– this has got to be Black Womb, surely? I know Ernst fits the Progeria hint better, but she doesn’t have ties to sinister, does she? And the clue about samples makes more sense given that Black Womb was a geneticist was she not?
Ernst teamed up with Sinister in Spider-Man and the X-Men in an attempt to get Martha a new body. Not a huge connection and I doubt Hickman is playing on it but it's something.
Twitter: @TonyBWood

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 20446
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 13 Sep 2019, 20:00

Majestic wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 17:13
If anything, I'd say Sinister as "a system" seems more insurmountable than a lone chessmaster-type villain, but then, while I normally love that particular trope, I honestly don't think Sinister was ever very effective in that capacity. He's always seemed goofy even when trying not to be. (If memory serves, this goofiness was Claremont's intent. I can see why some might have found that dichotomy interesting, though.)

Gillen walked the line between ostentation and menace well with Sinister, I think. (I'm thinking—in particular—of Gillen having Sinister murder and replace Kate Kildare and taunt Scott into breaking out of prison.) Admittedly, there's no menace at all to be had from Hickman's version in this issue, but—given that Sinister's dealing with a united Erik and Charles who both know the future—trying to make him seem like a real threat may very well have been futile, anyway.

Yeah that’s idea too...like he had one great moment of being menacing in Inferno (and even then he is pretty silly as you, his name was Mr. Sinister lol). But you look after that and you get him almost exclusively as a not too effective background mad-scientist (the Further Adventures of Cyke and Phoenix imo was anything but uninteresting, his origin made a caricature that cC created into a character and he was very tough then). Then he really bottomed out in Messiah Complex...it wasn’t until Gillen dusted him back off. But yeah Hickman takes things extremely in the ostentatious direction but I think we’re still supposed to regard his importance based on this story.

If Hickman’s story is the new canon, it makes some disparate versions of him (like how he “faked” his death with Cyclops in Inferno) easy to explain as clones.
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 3586
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by das_boot » 13 Sep 2019, 22:27

Quick and Dead wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 19:08
das_boot wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 11:01
#6– this has got to be Black Womb, surely? I know Ernst fits the Progeria hint better, but she doesn’t have ties to sinister, does she? And the clue about samples makes more sense given that Black Womb was a geneticist was she not?
Ernst teamed up with Sinister in Spider-Man and the X-Men in an attempt to get Martha a new body. Not a huge connection and I doubt Hickman is playing on it but it's something.
Oh, I didn’t read that because I can’t with Spider-Man.
ASPIRING WRITERS!

Check out the “Writing Challenges” thread in the Uncanon Mess Hall!

User avatar
UrbanExplorer
Posts: 633
Joined: 07 Mar 2019, 23:06

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by UrbanExplorer » 13 Sep 2019, 22:57

das_boot wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 22:27
Quick and Dead wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 19:08
das_boot wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 11:01
#6– this has got to be Black Womb, surely? I know Ernst fits the Progeria hint better, but she doesn’t have ties to sinister, does she? And the clue about samples makes more sense given that Black Womb was a geneticist was she not?
Ernst teamed up with Sinister in Spider-Man and the X-Men in an attempt to get Martha a new body. Not a huge connection and I doubt Hickman is playing on it but it's something.
Oh, I didn’t read that because I can’t with Spider-Man.

You didn’t miss much...

User avatar
Quick and Dead
Posts: 2150
Joined: 12 Feb 2009, 19:34
Location: New York City
Contact:

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Quick and Dead » 13 Sep 2019, 23:49

UrbanExplorer wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 22:57
das_boot wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 22:27
Quick and Dead wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 19:08


Ernst teamed up with Sinister in Spider-Man and the X-Men in an attempt to get Martha a new body. Not a huge connection and I doubt Hickman is playing on it but it's something.
Oh, I didn’t read that because I can’t with Spider-Man.

You didn’t miss much...
Don’t want to go off topic but I have to disagree. Spider-Man and the X-Men was delightful and one of the only comics to ever make me laugh out loud. Definitely give it a shot, das, it was a gem at a time when the X-Books were pretty rotten.
Twitter: @TonyBWood

User avatar
Anna Raven
Posts: 4767
Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 22:53

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Anna Raven » 13 Sep 2019, 23:58

Quick and Dead wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 23:49
UrbanExplorer wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 22:57
das_boot wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 22:27


Oh, I didn’t read that because I can’t with Spider-Man.

You didn’t miss much...
Don’t want to go off topic but I have to disagree. Spider-Man and the X-Men was delightful and one of the only comics to ever make me laugh out loud. Definitely give it a shot, das, it was a gem at a time when the X-Books were pretty rotten.
I really enjoyed it as well.
X-Men Editorial 2: Wolverine | Shadowcat | Beast | Deadpool | Sabretooth | Puck | Pixie | Toad | Prodigy | Eques | Vange Whedon |Snowbird | Wolfsbane
X-Men Generations: Rogue | X-23 | Colossus | Juggernaut | Bruiser | Blink | Scout

User avatar
UrbanExplorer
Posts: 633
Joined: 07 Mar 2019, 23:06

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by UrbanExplorer » 14 Sep 2019, 00:04

:roll:

User avatar
tokenBG1009
Posts: 6032
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 20:34

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by tokenBG1009 » 14 Sep 2019, 00:05

Quick and Dead wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 23:49
UrbanExplorer wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 22:57
das_boot wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 22:27


Oh, I didn’t read that because I can’t with Spider-Man.

You didn’t miss much...
Don’t want to go off topic but I have to disagree. Spider-Man and the X-Men was delightful and one of the only comics to ever make me laugh out loud. Definitely give it a shot, das, it was a gem at a time when the X-Books were pretty rotten.
As a lover of more comedic books I can definitely agree with this. It was a ton of fun.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

User avatar
Quick and Dead
Posts: 2150
Joined: 12 Feb 2009, 19:34
Location: New York City
Contact:

Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Quick and Dead » 14 Sep 2019, 02:19

So revisiting Spider-Man and the X-Men, Ernst was actually providing Sinister with DNA samples of everyone at the Jean Grey School... Maybe Hickman is referencing her after all. I feel like he's also crazy enough to try to tackle the Ernst/Cassandra Nova subplot. Now I'm getting excited.
Twitter: @TonyBWood

Post Reply