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Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 22:10

I know the Moira retcon is HUGE

But fundamentally changing the Technarch and Phalanx relationship might be just as big. That's why the X3 stuff is really on my mind...it's the part that, honestly, I'm most interested in (besides from the nature of Moira's powers). Cause it has such broad implications for everybody.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Lavettye » 11 Sep 2019, 22:19

Re: Xavier's wardrobe
I thought it obvious, that we were ment to read that into it. Not neccessarily as a hint of Cassandra Nova being a part of it, but just for symmetric storytelling. Cassandra destroyed a Mutant Nation on Genosha, Charles is building on one Krakoa. Cassandra's actions set back mutantkind becoming the dominant species for at least a decade, Charles' new agenda is forcing it to become reality even sooner.

However, I also got a brief anti-Magneto vibe when Xavier took of the helmet in order to mentally broadcast his idea to Douglas. Magneto used to wear his helmet to protect himself from telepathic intrusion.

Oh, and I just recalled that the notes in the Director's Cut for HoX #1 told the artist to never show X's full face. As he was drawing a flashback to when X's wasn't yet wearing the mobile Cerebro, Silva needed to come up with some other solution.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 22:22

So do we all think that, based on that, that physically X and this Xavier are supposed to be different? IE X is the guy who was created in the last Astonishing X-Men run and not just Hickman rebooting Xavier that way?
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by _Rick_ » 11 Sep 2019, 22:37

After an issue that completely lost me (to the point I didn't even felt like commenting on it) this one at least has some substance. Both in terms of personality (in the Xavier-Cypher and the Sinister scenes) and in terms of dropping a bit more clues and furthering the lore. I'm still feeling like the overall story is dragging a little bit but this was an improvement for me.

Quick thoughts:

The Xavier-Magneto-Sinister scene is a strange one to place within the 616 timeline. Xavier is in his Jim Lee hover chair so it would have to be post Muir Island Saga. Magneto and Xavier are on speaking terms, which, if our theories about the Moira-Xavier-Magneto Schism being the events of X-men #1 are correct it would have to happen before that. That is a very small window around what was being published in 1991. However, this scene implies that the Sinister we know only took over after this meeting but he was first mentioned in the Mutant Massacre storyline and we saw him (with cape) shortly afterwards (certainly before the 90s). It could be a clue that X0 is not 616 but truth be told, it could also be a red herring since it can be no prized as Cape Sinister already acting independently before he completely took over the collective.

The "talk" between Cypher and Krakoa was weird. Krakoa's native language was presented as a simple substitution cipher before but this is seemingly gibberish. However, Hickman introduced new characters among the gibberish. Why go to the trouble if it's gibberish? Maybe he just felt like it and wanted to further frustrate anyone who tried to translate it but it seems weird. Anyway, just like the portals seeming like stepping discs, the language seems to imply Krakoa has some connection to Limbo and this story explains it to an extent.

Everyone is focusing on Xavier dressing as Nova but it seems more significant that the art very specifically didn't want us to see his forehead. Might he have a red diamond there??? Could this be what Sinister secret #10 refers to? That would explain some things.

The solicit for this issue seems wrong. What has Cerebro got to do with this? I think it was supposed to be about next issue.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Lavettye » 11 Sep 2019, 23:15

Oooh, that's a great idea. I think you nailed it, Rick,.... it's not like this would be a first time. X-Men Legacy #213 comes to mind....
Spoiler: show
xinister savier.jpg
xinister savier.jpg (204.73 KiB) Viewed 633 times
-

It's almost even the same smirk as X has been displaying occasionally.

It could go even further, like... what if Moira's bold plan involved Sinister all along, and the significance of her looking in different directions during the bench scene is that one time she is talking to Xavier, (life IV or VI) and the other (life X) she is talking to Sinister, who at the time was posing as her mentor/professor in Oxford ?

EsseXavier also has good reasons to keep Jean powered down a bit, as he knows from personal experience that he couldn't keep her/Maddie under control when she had only a a tiny fraction of the Phoenix.
The "talk" between Cypher and Krakoa was weird. Krakoa's native language was presented as a simple substitution cipher before but this is seemingly gibberish. However, Hickman introduced new characters among the gibberish. Why go to the trouble if it's gibberish?
Actually there was just one unknown letter in it, all others had been used before.
The exact translation is RPESG_ and in the other panel YTCIO BYJTF OUGB
Cypher says that it has no fricatives, so it's obviously not a perfect spelling/phrasing. I also tried reading the letters out loud, but only partially get something resembling words, like "White sea"
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by _Rick_ » 12 Sep 2019, 00:10

Lavettye wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 23:15
The "talk" between Cypher and Krakoa was weird. Krakoa's native language was presented as a simple substitution cipher before but this is seemingly gibberish. However, Hickman introduced new characters among the gibberish. Why go to the trouble if it's gibberish?
Actually there was just one unknown letter in it, all others had been used before.
The exact translation is RPESG_ and in the other panel YTCIO BYJTF OUGB
Cypher says that it has no fricatives, so it's obviously not a perfect spelling/phrasing. I also tried reading the letters out loud, but only partially get something resembling words, like "White sea"
The reference that I quickly pulled up doesn't have a J so I assumed it was a new letter. Still doesn't help decipher it though. It really seems gibberish. Considering that Cipher goes on to speak far too many words, I don't think it was meant to be translatable but that still makes me wonder why come up with the new letter. Maybe they'll have Krakoa speak like this in the future so they have the finished alphabet on file already, but in this specific scene, they didn't bother writing it all down. I'm not sure I like that. Either make it all translatable or make it all gibberish.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by XtremeOne1 » 12 Sep 2019, 02:18

I'll say this issue was good but the pacing has to pick up. We're now four issues in with no better understanding of what is happening. In fact, I might be more confused(like this Xavier had a personality versus cold ass Xavier in every other issue). I'm sure, read altogether, this read is going to be phenomenal and I can't wait but right now, I think we need some answers. I feel like I'm watching Lost or some other mystery box show.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 12 Sep 2019, 02:25

It’s worth noting that Hickman does believe in a more noble Apocalypse.

He was the one who:
Spoiler: show
had Apocalypse help repel a Brood invasion in ancient Egypt which led to the formation of SHIELD in the West and the Spear, which was The Hand I think, in the East.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by das_boot » 12 Sep 2019, 10:05

I mean... this issue was a solid “meh” for me. I understand the decompression after last week’s issue, but I really felt like we’d already had it hammered home that Sinister worked with the X-Men at some point, and that Doug had figured out how to communicate with Krakoa, and... yeah. Little bit of new mythology later Re; Apocalypse and the former island of Krakoa and I’m still a little confused as to what this issue showed us that we didn’t already know other than the bit with the phalanx.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Wings » 12 Sep 2019, 10:51

Anyone else pick up that the genetic database Magneto and Xavier wanted Sinister to put together is probably the same one X-23 and the former New Avengers discovered during the Hunt for Wolverine: Adamatium Agenda? Could one of Sinister's secrets be hinting at the discovery that one of the X-Men wasn't a mutant from that series?
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Lavettye » 12 Sep 2019, 10:55

@booty,
IMO, while the "who" and "what" were established or at least strongly hinted before, this issue shows us a bit more about the "when" and "how". Seems that Sinister got involved much earlier than we expected.

Additionally, the backstory on Krakoa and Arrako might possible be how Limbo and/or the Bermuda Island came to be in the first place. There must be a reason why Krakoa speaks in Limbo font. So far, I assumed it meant that something from Limbo was carried over to modern day Krakoa. After reading this issue, I belive it to be the other way around. This font was Krakoa's language in the first place, and when Arrako was sucked into the dimensional rift, it became Limbo (or part of Limbo) and the language spoken there.

Oh, and as somewhere in the issue, I believe during the chat between Xavier, Magneto and Sinister, the DNA databank was referred to as a genetic library.... could that means that the librarian 1000 years in the future is a successor of Sinister, if not Sinister himself, having further adapted himself ?

@Wings
briefly thought so too, but when I checked the Adamantium Agenda series last night, I found that the database mentioned in it was missing all mutant files. However, there was a much earlier issue, X-Men (2nd series) #34 IIRC, in which the X-Men uncovered one of Sinister's storage facilities where he he had the DNA of all known mutants.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by UrbanExplorer » 12 Sep 2019, 11:01

Is this somehow related?

Image

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Anna Raven » 12 Sep 2019, 13:38

Blackcyclops wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 02:25
It’s worth noting that Hickman does believe in a more noble Apocalypse.

He was the one who:
Spoiler: show
had Apocalypse help repel a Brood invasion in ancient Egypt which led to the formation of SHIELD in the West and the Spear, which was The Hand I think, in the East.
See I always thought it was kind of established that as En Sabah Nur, he was a fairly noble warlord (still keeping in mind that he was a dictator from an ancient civilization) and that he didn't start truly believing in his survival of the fittest doctrine until after centuries of seeing mankind's worst impulses played out.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Brotha » 12 Sep 2019, 13:49

Sorry if this has already been pointed out.

I know that Xavier brought Doug to Karkao to establish a language, but did anyone else catch what Doug was doing before Xavier even mentioned his plan?

It's in the panels next to the one where Xavier says he wants to Doug and Krakoa to meet. You can see Doug's Warlock hand linger by a leaf. In the next panel the leaf has taken on the same cybernetic texture as his hand....



With the renewed emphasis on the Phalanx and Technarcy, I haven't seen a lot of attention being paid to Cypher's hand and we haven't seen Warlock anywhere.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 12 Sep 2019, 13:57

Anna Raven wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 13:38
Blackcyclops wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 02:25
It’s worth noting that Hickman does believe in a more noble Apocalypse.

He was the one who:
Spoiler: show
had Apocalypse help repel a Brood invasion in ancient Egypt which led to the formation of SHIELD in the West and the Spear, which was The Hand I think, in the East.
See I always thought it was kind of established that as En Sabah Nur, he was a fairly noble warlord (still keeping in mind that he was a dictator from an ancient civilization) and that he didn't start truly believing in his survival of the fittest doctrine until after centuries of seeing mankind's worst impulses played out.
The Apoccy origin story ended with him pretty much full on “survival of the fittest” though. And really, outside some cartoony depiction Apoccy is a bad guy because he’s so ideological that he doesn’t care about any type of moral issues, it’s all about that single ideology. It’s why, the best Apoccy stories (AoA, Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, and even X-Cutioner’s Song) show a person who isn’t petty or unnecessarily cruel but just always feels the ends justify the means.

Hickman though seems to take him in an even more noble direction.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Gremlin » 12 Sep 2019, 14:25

Brotha wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 13:49
With the renewed emphasis on the Phalanx and Technarcy, I haven't seen a lot of attention being paid to Cypher's hand and we haven't seen Warlock anywhere.
You have a good point. Cypher is pretty critical to Krakoa's set-up and he is obviously infected with the TO virus or something akin to it. Hickman has specifically made an effort to draw our attention to the technarchy and Phalanx, so I highly suspect Cypher is going to play a key role in all this. Maybe not right now but in one of the books down the line. Plus Hickman mentioned in an interview that Cypher was the one X-Men who, he feels, doesn't get enough credit/appreciation.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by UrbanExplorer » 12 Sep 2019, 14:30

Well, at least Charlie and Cassie have the same taste in fashin, when they visit the jungle.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by das_boot » 12 Sep 2019, 18:42

I may have to re-read this when I’m less tired because I’m not even at the same station as you guys for this issues let alone the hype-train.

This just felt like maybe it should have been an earlier issue.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by EphemeristX » 12 Sep 2019, 19:40

I'd say that this was my least favorite so far. But any of them that are dealing with the future are less exciting to me. It's definitely a world-building issue. I'm excited for next week, though.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by _Rick_ » 12 Sep 2019, 19:51

das_boot wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 18:42
I may have to re-read this when I’m less tired because I’m not even at the same station as you guys for this issues let alone the hype-train.

This just felt like maybe it should have been an earlier issue.
I'm not sure all of us are that far from you. This has been dragging. After a solid start, I've been underwhelmed for at least 3 or 4 issues now.

I completely agree this should have been an earlier issue. The Doug stuff in particular seemed like it should have been the issue 2 or 3 instead of it being only shown now. Most of it could be inferred from what we already knew anyway. House of X #1 and 2 actually did a good job of transmitting a lot of information efficiently. In contrast, everything else seems to be a sloooow drip-feed of plot. That can work but it needs something else to grab the audience and, as much as the mystery seems well done, that connection to grab you is lacking imho.
The easiest way to do it would have been through a central character experiencing this world with us but there is none. The closest to it are Moira and Xavier but they haven't been in it that much and when they are, they feel too mysterious for a connection to be made.
It could have been done through a nice exploration of the new setting, letting us discover Krakoa, the different Habitats, who lives in each one, the genesis of the flowers, the World's reaction, etc. Whenever we've seen it it has been good (the scene with Emma for instance) but we've had just short glimpses. Too few to keep you engaged.
Lastly, as much as the different timelines have been a solid mystery, the jumping around and not knowing which is which makes the audience a bit detached from the events.

This will probably work better as an ensemble. Still, if this was a movie we would be now in the start of the 3rd arc and I would have spent the last 30 min constantly checking my watch. Not a good thing to happen. What worries me is that there's so much to explore that I no longer believe it will be done within the House of X/Powers of X issues. It will probably be addressed in Dawn of X and this just hints at things to come which feels a bit of a waste.

Hopefully next issue will pick up the pace. It's supposed to be a "red issue". The last one of those was the Moira reveal.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Lavettye » 12 Sep 2019, 20:25

BTW, I got the letter J for the Krakoan Alphabet from a panel of New Mutants (3rd series) #20, page 12. There's one line that translates as "Pink tongues reject our terms."
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by _Rick_ » 12 Sep 2019, 20:45

Lavettye wrote:
12 Sep 2019, 20:25
BTW, I got the letter J for the Krakoan Alphabet from a panel of New Mutants (3rd series) #20, page 12. There's one line that translates as "Pink tongues reject our terms."
That explains it. For House of X #1 I checked my New Mutants copy but this time I just googled an image with the alphabet/symbols. Apparently it's incomplete. It's missing J, Q, X and Z.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Lavettye » 12 Sep 2019, 21:11

Q, X and Z haven't been used in any of the New Mutants issues that I skimmed thorugh, so probably that missing/new letter Krakoa was using here, stands for one of those.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 12 Sep 2019, 21:23

I’ll be the weirdo here: X3 is one of the most interesting ideas and now the idea of Apocalypse battling Limbo demons is now my favorite idea of the book. It’s like when Remender made Apoccy fight Thor...love it!
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Majestic » 13 Sep 2019, 05:08

Blackcyclops wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 21:43
Loved that story and the idea Gillen made for Sinister lol...
If their Twitters are to be believed (they may not be), Hickman has asked Gillen to come back to Marvel to write Sinister, and Jordan White was on board with the notion…

I, for one, would eat "The Fabulous Sinister's Marvel Universe Gossip" right up.
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