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Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

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MultipleMadrox
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Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by MultipleMadrox » 11 Sep 2019, 04:11

There's a LOT to unpack this issue. Working backwards...
Spoiler: show
Year One Thousand: The Librarian's people have created some manner of trojan horse for the Phalanx by copying one of their elders into a host machine and allowing it to be assimilated, in hopes that it will eventually ascend to be part of the greater collective.

Year One (months before Mother Mold): Xavier takes Cypher to Krakoa for the first time. Cypher establishes their communication and learns that Krakoa is one half of an ancient land called Okarra and was split into two (Krakoa and Arakko) by the "twilight sword," releasing some manner of demonic creatures. "The first mutant" and his four warriors were able to close the chasm by pushing Arakko through it. Xavier telepathically shares his plans with Cypher and Cypher agrees to stay behind with Krakoa and set up the interface, a translation program that is later managed by Sage, Black Tom, Trinary, and Beast. A small note at the bottom of a graphic suggests that Forge is rumored to be building biological machines in some massive subterranean lab. Though the words "soulsword," "Limbo," "Apocalypse," and "horsemen" aren't mentioned, it's pretty clear what's going on in Krakoa's origin story...

Year Zero: Xavier and Magneto travel to Bar Sinister to meet with Mister Sinister, even though they don't have an appointment. This scene is out of control. Bar Sinister is filled with Sinister clones who are killed randomly at the whims of other Sinisters. X and Mags ask Sinister for his help cataloging mutant DNA in a library he's building, and while the first Sinister they talk with has no interest, a Sinister with the mutant gene and a familiar costume does. Xavier telepathically compels this Sinister to begin his work, while forgetting why he's doing it until Xavier wants him to remember...

Then there are ten Sinister secrets and two revealed secrets as part of "The Red Diamond" Bar Sinister gossip graphic, which is coded at the top of the page as [00.00_lies]. Let's analyze every possible angle anyway, like good nerds.

Secret #1 A truly sinister Sinister is pretending like he's not wearing red shoes. (possibly just legit cattiness)
Secret #2 The return of a trendsetting mutant who was cut down in his prime. (???)
Secret #3 Deceased redhead pretender made a pact with a devil and left behind a lot of secrets when she died. (Maddie)
Secret #4 Almost none of the Sinisters noticed what washed ashore and shouldn't embrace the revelry. (???)
Secret #5 The best there is at what he does is up to something with a married woman with a kid. Her husband knows, but is up to the same. (Seems to be hinting at Wolvie/Jean/Cyke/Emma love square, but also feels like a mislead?)
Secret #6 The progerian mutant's plans weren't foiled, as the samples were switched beforehand. (Ernst in the Spidey mini, of all things)
Secret #7 Would you believe there were more than three Summers brothers?
Secret #8 The fittest of all mutants is most loyal to his original four entourage. (Apocalype and the Horsemen who helped close Limbo)
Secret #9 This non-couple couple has been apart so long, fireworks will ensue when they meet again. (Xavier and Moira?)
Secret #10 Implies the Sinister that Xavier made forget details of their plan in Bar Sinister was a plant and was aware of what Xavier was doing.
Revealed secrets: "Inferno" is the watchword and Sinister got his mutant gene from John Proudstar's DNA.

SO. I have a lot more questions about Year Zero now. Interesting to see Bar Sinister outside of Battleworld, if it is outside of Battleworld??? A few threads ago I feel like there was some conversation about how the incursions would effect Moira. Is Moira working with Sinister, RE: Secret #10? The secrets, man. Thunderbird! What even.

Happy to see Forge get a namedrop because I feel like Hickman will actually use him well.
Anyway, I loved this. It was really funny and kind of manic, which I'm into. Doug's "...or something like that" was the highlight for me.

Next issue is a red issue... :shock: :shock: :shock:

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 10:32

Spoiler: show
Apocalypse and his original Horsemen are a part of the Incoming storyline teassed by Marvel
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 11:53

This issue was interesting...the only part I’m honestly lost on is the X3 stuff. I don’t know how it actually folds back.

I don’t think this Bar Sinister is on Battleworld...I just think Hickman took the concept from there and carried it iver (writers do it all the time).

Also, spoilers for Invaders #9
Spoiler: show
the head of Roxxon mentions the “krakoa situation”...so some aspect of this story is either 1)set in 616 or 2) will carry over to it...
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Flapflop » 11 Sep 2019, 12:13

Blackcyclops wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 11:53
Also, spoilers for Invaders #9
Spoiler: show
the head of Roxxon mentions the “krakoa situation”...so some aspect of this story is either 1)set in 616 or 2) will carry over to it...
Spoiler: show
I still think were in 616 and Hickman is doing the biggest retcon ever
Interesting issue, though we maybe still have even more questions than answers
Spoiler: show
- Supected the trirumvirate would recruit Sinister as well from the beginning, though with (good) caution. The fact that Xavier is saying to him that he has to start collecting DNA (to clone?) and then forget Xavier and Magneto were ever there until asked makes me think this is how Hickman will explain more of what happened in the 616 timline so far. Maybe they even hypnotizes themselves at some point.
- Xavier looks like normal Xavier, not Fantomex body possesing Xavier, in the X1 of month before the Master Mold mission, maybe this is Xavier before he died in AvsX? And the whole next step in the Trirumvirate plan already started then?
- Still no clue where the X3 (year ten thousand) is headed or is hinting to what needs to be done in maybe a next live after this happened?
Next week we will be treated on a red ground breaking issue again, cant wait! 8-)
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by tokenBG1009 » 11 Sep 2019, 12:37

I need to bite on this...

What is the retcon?
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Quick and Dead » 11 Sep 2019, 13:36

Easily the warmest Xavier we've seen in quite some time. Loved seeing him having a nice conversation with one of his students for once and the fact that it was Doug made me happy. That familiar helmet was a bit unnerving though...

Obviously we're all going to be talking about the Sinister retcon and what all the secrets mean but the Krakoa retcon was interesting too, tying him into Apocalypse. First appearance of the Original Horseman. I wonder if they'll be half as cool as Remender's Final Horseman. They have a lot to live up to there.

Krakoa is one of those things that's been getting more and more complicated since he returned in Jason Aaron's WatX run and I don't mind him but when they try to explain him and his origins, it gets a little messy. What the hell is a mutant island anyway? Is he a mutant with the ability to become an island? If he's just some random creature born of magic or even alien, then what is his connection to mutantkind?
Blackcyclops wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 10:32
Spoiler: show
Apocalypse and his original Horsemen are a part of the Incoming storyline teassed by Marvel
Where did you see that, BC?
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 13:40

@QaD:
Spoiler: show
In the Marvel Comics #1000 series Apocalypse is shown for year 1995. In the story he is lamenting about how awesome his original Horsemen were. And at the end you see an image of the 4 and they match perfectly the ones in this issue, plus the story was written by Hickman and MC#1000 and the Eternity Mask is connected to the Incoming storyline starting in december.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 13:50

When I hear mutant island I just think of it literally as it is: the same way that Ego is a living world, Krakoa is an island that is alive and because it lives, it’s a mutant. The same way that broo is a mutant because he doesn’t eat and impregnate people or how Ariel was a mutant variant of her species and Warlock was a mutant technarch.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 13:52

tokenBG1009 wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 12:37
I need to bite on this...

What is the retcon?
That essentially Xavier and Magneto met Sinister in the past (presumably after the Black Womb stuff but before the formation of the X-Men) and he was basically a dude on an island full of clones of himself. Thus, mudding up whether any Sinister has ever been the real one and that Xavier implanted in his mind the idea to start studying mutants...even though the Sinisters knew he did it.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 15:16

My Sinister Secrets Guesses:
1) ? Miss Sinister maybe?
2) who’s a “trend-setting” mutant that was killed in their orine? Unless this secret is retroactively talking about Wolvie or Cyke or Jean, I just don’t know. Matthew Malloy????????
3) It’s clearly about Maddy, so maybe Maddy had another child or kept something that’s going to return to trouble the x-world?
4) “Current” and “washed ashore”...this could connect to the story in Invaders.
5) Ugh
6) A call back to X-Cutioner’s Song. In the story Stryfe wqs supposed to give Sinister some samples of Summers DNA but instead gave him the Legacy Virus. What if, those samples are real and mean something now?
7) Has to be relevant to a specific future story, namely;
Spoiler: show
X-Men #1
.
8) I alluded to this one in my previous post.
9) ? No clue
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 11 Sep 2019, 15:56

I haven’t read this yet, or the thread above (spoilers!), but I wanted to pop by and say that on the cover X looks a lot like a classic Havok. Black uni, round headdress.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 11 Sep 2019, 16:14

Whelp, after reading it I think the conversation with Sinister establishes that psychic memory blocks are Hickman’s way out here. The scenes with Sinister and Krakoa are Life XI, and 616, and Charles, Magneto and Sinister have been operating with memory blocks until HoX #1.

It’s the cleanest solution to the continuity and paradox mess Hickman’s created, but I’m a little disappointed at the lack of creativity.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 11 Sep 2019, 16:38

So here’s how I see it:

All of 616 up to the birth of Moira is exactly what we’ve been reading for decades.

But there it gets wonky; Moira lives life one, when she dies the whole of 616 is rebooted. This happens 10 times, and she learns a lot. Still a mystery what happened in Life 6, but we know what happened at the end of Life 10.

Life eleven is the 616 we’ve read before. But with some retcons. Moira comes with what she learned from Apocalypse. At the beginning of HoX #2, Moira tells Charles. this is a straight retcon of what we’ve known since forever, because it changes what Charles and Moira were working on together during the early years. It can be slotted in between other scenes and stories, so those are not necessarily untrue. Just that this was going on at the same time.

During those years, Moira and Charles recruit Erik. This is after they had a break in Israel, but before X-Men #1. I’m not sure if there are any published Magneto-Charles stories during that time. Magneto was Nazi hunting, but he could also have been working on this. This is also a straight retcon to 616.

Charles and Eric go recruit Sinister. Again, before X-Men #1. Another retcon.

At some point, Sinister (confirmed), Charles and Erik (speculated) get psychic memory blocks, so that the 616 we know can still progress as we know it. Unclear to me if Moira also had memory blocks, or if she just was careful about what to share and when.

From here, 616 progresses as we know it. Hickman may drop a few more retcons, perhaps showing some of the choices we saw were from buried psychic suggestions or small parts of the memory blocks being dropped away, or something.

Here’s what still doesn’t add up: Moira’s death from the Legacy virus. Either she’s not dead, or she found a way to circumvent her powers so that 616 could continue until the right time for Charles to remember. I’m sure Hickman will address this, or already has and I missed it. Was the Shi’ar Golem thing in life 11, or was that elsewhere?

Then, after Age of X-Man, or whatever, the memory blocks lift and Charles starts Moira’s plan. We see him take Doug to Krakoa. We see the opening scenes of HoX #1, where the X-Men are planting Krakoa flowers. He buys the pharmaceutical companies, and land for the embassies.

Current day 616: the embassies, Sabertooth’s trial, and the battle on ORCHIS.

So, where to X2 and X3 fit? Some of X2 seems to be a part of Life 10, so it’s basically been rebooted out of existence. But maybe some (or all) of it is still going to come to pass in Life 11.

I also wonder if X3 is what Charles, Moira and Erik are trying to accomplish. This ascension into a universal consciousness may be the end goal of the new Dream. It brings to mind a marvelous classic Asimov short story, The Last Question, where the arc of human history leads to the ascension into a single universal consciousness, which becomes itself God and creates the universe anew. I could believe that’s Hickman’s vision for Charles’ new Dream.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 16:45

But X2 was explicitly shown to be life 9...that’s the life that ends with Moira being killed by Logan to start Life 10.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 11 Sep 2019, 16:50

Blackcyclops wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 16:45
But X2 was explicitly shown to be life 9...that’s the life that ends with Moira being killed by Logan to start Life 10.
Was it? I’ll have to go back and re-read.

Wait, was the Apocalypse future life 9 or 10? I thought it was 10.

6 — unknown
7 — Trasks
8 — Magneto
9 — Apocalypse

I guess you’re right.

Ok, now I’m confused again. Ignore my bloviating above. Some of what I put in Life 11 above, must be in Life 10. If we’re gonna keep the current status quo, maybe that’s the end of it and life 11 isn’t going to happen. But that’s too big a hint to drop to be meaningless, so I doubt it.

Which means, what have we seen that’s Life 10 that’s going to get erased, and what have we seen that’s Life 11 that will persist?
Last edited by Nu-D on 11 Sep 2019, 16:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Dragonzombie » 11 Sep 2019, 16:52

Lot of new info. More summer brothers? Mr.Sinister has Proudstars DNA. Anyway there's clues about stuff readers can build on.

X2 is part of life 9. That ended. X3 may have similarities but it seems to be part of timeline 10. I don't think timeline 11 even exist.... yet.

Hickman did said he was gonna write about the secret history of X-Men, so retcons here and there.

Moira is alive somewhere after faking her death.
Spoiler: show
solicts show timeline 10 is still going on.
Last edited by Dragonzombie on 11 Sep 2019, 16:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 16:54

Any talk of future solicits need to be bracketed in spoiler tag function, thank you:”.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Lavettye » 11 Sep 2019, 21:01

Wow,.. with that issue I find myself back on the mind-trip. Lots of things I still need to process and will have to re-read other books for, to place together.

The mutiple Sinsters seem to tie in with the second Uncanny X-Men series from 2012. There Sinister was also using dozens of bodies with different personalty traits, and during the Story he also had a Krakoa clone at his disposal. At the time, I thought the story a bit silly, but that was at least partially to the horrible art - constant Greg Lang porn smiles.

These Horsemen were also shown in House of X#2 in the few Images of Moira IX's life as Apoaclypse's partner. Same silhouettes, so apparently in hat timeline, they returned at some point and weren't swallowed forever.

Regarding the Secrets:
- could secret #2 refer to mutant clothing designer Jumbo Carnation, who died of a Kick overdose in Morrison's New X-Men run ?
- As for secret #3, it could point to Hope being genetically related to the Grey and Summers family after all. Maybe that's what Maddie left behind. Hope's birthplace is close to the area where Scott and Maddie lived for a while.
- secret #7 is clearly Adam-X, as originally intended. It makes sense to include him, as there's a Shi'Ar connection throught HoX & PoX with the mentioning of Xandra and mutants living in Shi'Ar space in the future or Moira faking a death via Shi'Ar golem. In one of Adam's first appearances there was even that panel of Sinister spying on somone spying on Adam X.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by UrbanExplorer » 11 Sep 2019, 21:15

Must have been a 24/7 job reading through X-Men history for Hickmann.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Wings » 11 Sep 2019, 21:21

Nu-D wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 16:38
So here’s how I see it:

All of 616 up to the birth of Moira is exactly what we’ve been reading for decades.

But there it gets wonky; Moira lives life one, when she dies the whole of 616 is rebooted. This happens 10 times, and she learns a lot. Still a mystery what happened in Life 6, but we know what happened at the end of Life 10.

Life eleven is the 616 we’ve read before. But with some retcons. Moira comes with what she learned from Apocalypse. At the beginning of HoX #2, Moira tells Charles. this is a straight retcon of what we’ve known since forever, because it changes what Charles and Moira were working on together during the early years. It can be slotted in between other scenes and stories, so those are not necessarily untrue. Just that this was going on at the same time.

During those years, Moira and Charles recruit Erik. This is after they had a break in Israel, but before X-Men #1. I’m not sure if there are any published Magneto-Charles stories during that time. Magneto was Nazi hunting, but he could also have been working on this. This is also a straight retcon to 616.

Charles and Eric go recruit Sinister. Again, before X-Men #1. Another retcon.

At some point, Sinister (confirmed), Charles and Erik (speculated) get psychic memory blocks, so that the 616 we know can still progress as we know it. Unclear to me if Moira also had memory blocks, or if she just was careful about what to share and when.

From here, 616 progresses as we know it. Hickman may drop a few more retcons, perhaps showing some of the choices we saw were from buried psychic suggestions or small parts of the memory blocks being dropped away, or something.

Here’s what still doesn’t add up: Moira’s death from the Legacy virus. Either she’s not dead, or she found a way to circumvent her powers so that 616 could continue until the right time for Charles to remember. I’m sure Hickman will address this, or already has and I missed it. Was the Shi’ar Golem thing in life 11, or was that elsewhere?

Then, after Age of X-Man, or whatever, the memory blocks lift and Charles starts Moira’s plan. We see him take Doug to Krakoa. We see the opening scenes of HoX #1, where the X-Men are planting Krakoa flowers. He buys the pharmaceutical companies, and land for the embassies.

Current day 616: the embassies, Sabertooth’s trial, and the battle on ORCHIS.

So, where to X2 and X3 fit? Some of X2 seems to be a part of Life 10, so it’s basically been rebooted out of existence. But maybe some (or all) of it is still going to come to pass in Life 11.

I also wonder if X3 is what Charles, Moira and Erik are trying to accomplish. This ascension into a universal consciousness may be the end goal of the new Dream. It brings to mind a marvelous classic Asimov short story, The Last Question, where the arc of human history leads to the ascension into a single universal consciousness, which becomes itself God and creates the universe anew. I could believe that’s Hickman’s vision for Charles’ new Dream.
Moira didn't die from the Legacy Virus. She died from injuries sustained during Mystique's attack on Muir Island. Or that was the case before Hickman retconned it so she faked her death with the Shi'ar Golem. That was in life 10.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 21:43

Lavettye wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 21:01
Wow,.. with that issue I find myself back on the mind-trip. Lots of things I still need to process and will have to re-read other books for, to place together.

The mutiple Sinsters seem to tie in with the second Uncanny X-Men series from 2012. There Sinister was also using dozens of bodies with different personalty traits, and during the Story he also had a Krakoa clone at his disposal. At the time, I thought the story a bit silly, but that was at least partially to the horrible art - constant Greg Lang porn smiles.

These Horsemen were also shown in House of X#2 in the few Images of Moira IX's life as Apoaclypse's partner. Same silhouettes, so apparently in hat timeline, they returned at some point and weren't swallowed forever.

Regarding the Secrets:
- could secret #2 refer to mutant clothing designer Jumbo Carnation, who died of a Kick overdose in Morrison's New X-Men run ?
- As for secret #3, it could point to Hope being genetically related to the Grey and Summers family after all. Maybe that's what Maddie left behind. Hope's birthplace is close to the area where Scott and Maddie lived for a while.
- secret #7 is clearly Adam-X, as originally intended. It makes sense to include him, as there's a Shi'Ar connection throught HoX & PoX with the mentioning of Xandra and mutants living in Shi'Ar space in the future or Moira faking a death via Shi'Ar golem. In one of Adam's first appearances there was even that panel of Sinister spying on somone spying on Adam X.
Loved that story and the idea Gillen made for Sinister lol...


I’ll go with the Adam-X thing but I’m still open on the Maddy thing and who the trendsetter is. It would be cool if Hickman is digging that hard in the crates or he could be talking about a bigger name.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by UrbanExplorer » 11 Sep 2019, 21:46

A baseball cap counts as trend. Turn it backwards and you are a trendsetter.

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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by InsipidLust » 11 Sep 2019, 22:02

Girl, why is Charles cosplaying as Cassandra Nova?
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by EphemeristX » 11 Sep 2019, 22:06

Ha. I noticed that too. I guess Cass is more like Charles than she thought.
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Re: Powers of X #4 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Sep 2019, 22:07

InsipidLust wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 22:02
Girl, why is Charles cosplaying as Cassandra Nova?
See I was struggling NOT to read into that...but maybe we should?
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