Welcome to unstablemolecules.com, the discussion home for mightyavengers.net, uncanon.com and uncannyxmen.net!

House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Here you can express your opinions about released issues of the current X-Titles
User avatar
Nu-D
Posts: 2569
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 00:22
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 09 Aug 2019, 18:31

totaldarknessin wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:02
EphemeristX wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 14:11
Yeah, despite the kneejerk undoing of alot of Morrison's stuff, his legacy is clearly still felt today. Alot of his concepts are still integral to the X-Mythos, like him or not.
I agree, I'm one of the haters of the trend started by Morrison; but acknowledge that some of the changes he made is continuously being felt now; much more so than many of the writers before him (after claremont) and some afterwards.

For example, Beast have been blue ape like since 1972 and that lasted until 2001 by Morrison; then he was changed to cat like and has been changing since. He has yet to go back to his traditional ape like regular beast form ever since.

Morrison committed character assassination with Cyclops and that progressively became worse until he was killed in that run with inhumans; now recently resurrected; seemingly a bit milder; but the repercussions of that change from Morrison remains.

Xavier as the main headmaster of X-men began to be phased out via Morrison's run; and Xavier going from being mostly purely good to being shady really started with that. And I don't mean secretly having a dark side; or a side couped up that may come out when he is knocked out like in Dark phoenix saga or when mixed with Magneto's psyche with Onslaught; i mean simply the man himself. This eventually led to Xavier dying by cyclops; then resurrected into fantomex's body; and acting weird as hell; and now this creepy dude we see in Hickman's run. This Isn't Charles Xavier that I grew up with.

The white queen being a regular of the X-men proper; scott's perpetual lover started with Morrison'' and even recent comics still showed this.

Jean grey being removed from the X-men; killed during Morrison's run; wasn't returned until last year. That is a lasting legacy in the world of X-men.

Mutants being more than simply humans with powers; the few There were only a few weird mutants; most were morlocks; but now you have shark head mutants; mutants with a million eyes; beaks; among other non-nonsensical stuff. This started with Morrison's explosion of mutants and with it then need to make as many different mutants as possible and thus with it; very weird ones. Take a look at X-men cartoon in the 90s; and take a look at the mutants that would then populate and you would think you are in a very different world/book.

The eventual killing of 16 million mutants and forcing the X-men and mutants to feel like they are being decimated. This really wasn't that big of an issue in prior X-men run; other than alternate future DOFP; Morrison really ramped up the whole whole humans trying to eradicate mutants; this eventually lead to Bendis' no more mutant; which then lead to the whole "decimation era".

secondary mutations

the now explosion of the term Omega Level Mutant; something barely referenced in Uncanny X-men 207; to now something that would become persistent cannon.

How Wolverine was treated has vastly changed from the 70s-90s compared to Morrison on. the personality is also a bit different.

I believe other than Claremont' Morrison has been the most influential X-Men Writer there was.
Are we really going down the Morison rabbit hole again? I’m happy to, but I think a lot of folks around here are tired of this discussion.

User avatar
EphemeristX
Posts: 4777
Joined: 09 Apr 2007, 16:50
Contact:

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by EphemeristX » 09 Aug 2019, 18:42

No need. It's been discussed ad nauseam. I only brought it up in comparison to Hickman.
http://dancehall-daze.tumblr.com

"Take your baby by the ears
And play upon her darkest fears"

User avatar
UrbanExplorer
Posts: 572
Joined: 07 Mar 2019, 23:06

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by UrbanExplorer » 09 Aug 2019, 18:51

Here is a professional CBR post about the many lives of Moira

https://www.cbr.com/house-of-x-moira-ma ... explained/

User avatar
Gremlin
Posts: 7317
Joined: 17 Apr 2007, 16:55

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Gremlin » 09 Aug 2019, 18:53

I look forward to 15 years time when we are dissecting Hickman’s legacy.

Anyway, it’s quite interesting how we are 3 issues in Hickman’s run and the issue threads are exploding. For a long while many of the issues just...happened...and they didn’t really generate a big stir. Hickman has lit a fire under the X-line and I hope this level of passion and enthusiasm from the fans continue.

We’ve already had one of the biggest retcons in years and we are in week three. I look forward to seeing how the rest of this run pans out as well as his two new titles going forward.
Everybody is entitled you their opinion...but yours is wrong.

User avatar
Monolith
Posts: 6153
Joined: 20 Feb 2007, 17:29

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Monolith » 09 Aug 2019, 18:58

UrbanExplorer wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:51
Here is a professional CBR post about the many lives of Moira

https://www.cbr.com/house-of-x-moira-ma ... explained/
Ah yes, a "professional" CBR article, right next to the one where they call Moira X an Omega mutant, even though that was never said in the issue.
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." -- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
UrbanExplorer
Posts: 572
Joined: 07 Mar 2019, 23:06

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by UrbanExplorer » 09 Aug 2019, 19:08

That’s why I put the „professional“ next to CBR. But it is a handy overview overall

:roll:

totaldarknessin
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Apr 2007, 03:07

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by totaldarknessin » 09 Aug 2019, 19:33

Monolith wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:58
UrbanExplorer wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:51
Here is a professional CBR post about the many lives of Moira

https://www.cbr.com/house-of-x-moira-ma ... explained/
Ah yes, a "professional" CBR article, right next to the one where they call Moira X an Omega mutant, even though that was never said in the issue.
Though it is inaccurate to call her an omega level mutant since the person writing her has explicitly listed the total current omega level mutants; Her reach though as a character is Omega like as we have seen her able to elicit massive change to the world in the form of Live 9 with Apocalypse domination; Live 8 with Magneto wars; Live 7 with the assassination of the trask; Live 6 with the faraway dome living. As I said in my original post; it is so far limited to X-men; but we have seen Life 9 affect the Avengers as Apocalypse killed them all; what makes you think some of the decisions wouldn't have potential universal effect for example; finding a way from preventing Secret Wars (the new one) from ever happening. Unless killed prior to reaching puberty; she literally has the ability to create an infinite alternate timelines; at least that's what I deduce so far.

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 18925
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Aug 2019, 20:08

Monolith wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:58
UrbanExplorer wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:51
Here is a professional CBR post about the many lives of Moira

https://www.cbr.com/house-of-x-moira-ma ... explained/
Ah yes, a "professional" CBR article, right next to the one where they call Moira X an Omega mutant, even though that was never said in the issue.

Lmao...that’s hiliarious
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
UrbanExplorer
Posts: 572
Joined: 07 Mar 2019, 23:06

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by UrbanExplorer » 09 Aug 2019, 20:17

.... now I know why some people never come back to the forum

Image

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 1379
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 00:54

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Magnus » 09 Aug 2019, 20:48

tokenBG1009 wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 12:33
I always wondered if Morrison knew House of M was coming or if it was another thing that showed Marvel just didn't want to continue with his direction.
I've had the feeling that Marvel just wasn't sure what to do with Morrison's "mutants will naturally out-populate humans within 10 years" idea and so they came up with some big event to reverse it. And decided to go extra far with the 198 idea to really 'up the stakes' for the mutants (and something that's resulted in repeated near-extinction stories ever since, sadly).

Nu-D wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 13:11
My preliminary view of HoX/PoX is that there’s a lot of room for satellite titles to play in this sandbox, but it’s going to be very difficult for other flagship titles to navigate around this status quo. What are the Avengers going to do with Sovereign Mutant Nations and amnesty?
SPOILERS BASED OFF SOLICITS FOR POST HOX/POX TITLES
Spoiler: show
Hickman will still be helming an ongoing (Adjectiveless, so the flagship title, especially with no Uncanny). That one and at least one other are Starjammer related so I think there will be at least some books set in space. My guess is that mutants might get their own world or moon (not sure if they'll still have Krakoa) but still spend a lot of time on Earth too. I'd bet the Krakoa portals at least survive.

User avatar
Usernamenotimportant
Posts: 146
Joined: 30 May 2019, 10:46

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 09 Aug 2019, 21:02

Magnus wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 20:48
tokenBG1009 wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 12:33
I always wondered if Morrison knew House of M was coming or if it was another thing that showed Marvel just didn't want to continue with his direction.
I've had the feeling that Marvel just wasn't sure what to do with Morrison's "mutants will naturally out-populate humans within 10 years" idea and so they came up with some big event to reverse it. And decided to go extra far with the 198 idea to really 'up the stakes' for the mutants (and something that's resulted in repeated near-extinction stories ever since, sadly).
Actually, Morrison had mutantkind being the majority only in a 100 years, IIRC. Marvel's reaction had to do with the movie rights (wanting to reduce the X-men's importance and elevate the Avengers') and, specially, Quesada's bitterness about Morrison going to DC.

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 18925
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Aug 2019, 21:16

I thought we werent gonna beat the same dead horse over our theories on Morrison and stuff? Lol
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 18925
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Aug 2019, 21:18

I’m just glad it was Moira he used instead of some dude...
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
Gremlin
Posts: 7317
Joined: 17 Apr 2007, 16:55

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Gremlin » 09 Aug 2019, 21:37

You say that BC, but I could totally see the same story beats applied to Legion or Proteus. In fact, Hickman could have used Legion’s multiple personality disorder within the story. He could have leaned on Legion’s “erratic and unstable” mind as being a symptom of living multiple lives.

I’m still adjusting to the X-Men’s most prominent non-mutant ally actually being a mutant. In some way it detracts from position, now that’s she a mutant. However, I feel that Hickman is going to elevate the character in a way that she’s never been seen before and that will outweigh any negativity.
Everybody is entitled you their opinion...but yours is wrong.

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 18925
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Aug 2019, 22:38

I meant that because it rises the prominence of a female character (that’s why I didn’t say any other character, just some dude lol)...

Although Legion would have been seen as repetitive because of AoXM. Proteus isn’t as significant a character. Now there are other male characters I think you could use though.
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
Monolith
Posts: 6153
Joined: 20 Feb 2007, 17:29

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Monolith » 09 Aug 2019, 22:41

If Moira were still around and they tried to say "she's been a mutant all along!", I'd be more eyeroll-y. I'm most accepting of this because of the context of "This is how we're bringing Moira back."
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." -- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 1379
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 00:54

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Magnus » 09 Aug 2019, 22:43

Yeah I didn't mean to wade too much into the weeds on the Morrison stuff (ignoring totaldarknessin's post, for example) but if you wanna move this elsewhere I understand.
Usernamenotimportant wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 21:02
Actually, Morrison had mutantkind being the majority only in a 100 years, IIRC. Marvel's reaction had to do with the movie rights (wanting to reduce the X-men's importance and elevate the Avengers') and, specially, Quesada's bitterness about Morrison going to DC.
Quick look at NXM #114, Cassandra Nova says "the human race will be as extinct as Neanderthal man within four generations." Which would be 80 years, but also talking about extinct vs. minority. But yeah seems I'm misremembering the 10 years.

I really doubt there was any thought of the movie rights in 2005 when No More Mutants happened. Iron Man didn't come out until 2008, and no one knew how much of a hit it would be (a lot of people thought it would be another middling super hero franchise at best, a bomb at worst since he was a B-list hero). Now, if we're talking about the Avengers vs. X-Men era of 2012 when Avengers was the biggest thing at the box office, that's different, but there's no way No More Mutants was a plan to try and prop up a movie franchise that didn't even have a director or star signed yet.

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 18925
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Aug 2019, 22:54

Monolith wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 22:41
If Moira were still around and they tried to say "she's been a mutant all along!", I'd be more eyeroll-y. I'm most accepting of this because of the context of "This is how we're bringing Moira back."
The biggest question is still imo, what the hell was life?!?!?
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
Nu-D
Posts: 2569
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 00:22
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 09 Aug 2019, 22:57

Moreover, Daredevil and Elektra has just flopped. Marvel didn’t even have the rights to Iron Man until the end of 2005.

To the extent the X-men comics may have been sandbagged to prop up movies, it certainly has not begun when GM was on NXM.

User avatar
Cyke
Posts: 1181
Joined: 29 Jun 2008, 00:26
Location: The Bright Sunny South

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Cyke » 10 Aug 2019, 01:25

EphemeristX wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:42
No need. It's been discussed ad nauseam. I only brought it up in comparison to Hickman.
I'm trying to determine the difference for myself and I can't quite put my finger on it.

With just three issues, Hickman has managed to re-vitalize the franchise in ways that we haven't seen in over a decade, certainly not since Morrison. However, I find Hickman's work (so far) more compelling and enjoyable than Morrison's (or at least those portions of his work that I have read). Maybe it is the inclusion of Big Ideas and Science that make it so for me. Hickman will drop in snippets of theory and/or science that make you think you're about to get a dry info-dump yet he weaves it into a thought-provoking comment or conversation.

Case in point here: Moira's comment about being in her mother's womb with a fully developed consciousness. She drops some biology/embryonic reference but ends with saying that (paraphrase), Mother is safe, Mother is home, it's the outside world that drives you mad. A thought-provoking insight about her ability (and life in general for that matter), loved that.

Furthermore, I am very pleased with Hickman's characterization so far as well. Moira runs the gamut from happy to sad to clinical to driven to anger to focused and beyond. The Brotherhood scenes have to be one of the more chilling scenes I've read in quite some time.

This is an amazing retcon, one that changes not one iota of what we have seen before of Moira, instead adds new layers of mystery and fun to those events surrounding her. Mind. Blown!

I will leave the parceling of the timelines of her lives up to others more suited to the task although I will agree with BC and Cable, it seems like she is creating alternate timelines with each new life. It suits the overall theme of Hickman's work in general and Occam's Razor would suggest it's the simplest answer as well.
Verda Gildr- 'Become Worthy'

User avatar
Cable
Posts: 4116
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 18:31
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Cable » 10 Aug 2019, 03:10

Magnus wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 20:48

SPOILERS BASED OFF SOLICITS FOR POST HOX/POX TITLES
Spoiler: show
Hickman will still be helming an ongoing (Adjectiveless, so the flagship title, especially with no Uncanny). That one and at least one other are Starjammer related so I think there will be at least some books set in space. My guess is that mutants might get their own world or moon (not sure if they'll still have Krakoa) but still spend a lot of time on Earth too. I'd bet the Krakoa portals at least survive.
I've seen speculation elsewhere too that X-Men end up in space after this, which is amusing because during the height of X-Men being ostracized at Marvel that was one of the many theories that fan rants threw out there: post-IvX the mutants would be booted off to some corner of space and Inhumans would replace them as a franchise. Now people welcome Hickman as a herald of the return of X-Men and he might boot them off to space lol
Best X-Comic last week: Powers of X #4
Best non X-Comic last week: Silver Surfer Black #4

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 18925
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 10 Aug 2019, 03:16

Lmao
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
XtremeOne1
Posts: 3804
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:03

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by XtremeOne1 » 10 Aug 2019, 03:53

I'm definitely not a fan of "Mutants in Space Dogs"(The Spin-off to the now defunct USA television network UPN's classic Homedogs in Space) because I just don't like the thought of them off in their own segregated space....but I trust Hickman enough to go on the journey. Back when we were really scared of that happening, the books were in utter disarray with hardly a quality book in sight. Now with HIckman helming the books, and Marvel owning X-Men, them going off into space seems less like, "Get them away from Marvel" and more like "An Actual Arc".

totaldarknessin
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Apr 2007, 03:07

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by totaldarknessin » 10 Aug 2019, 04:43

It's interesting that folks are like; Ignoring my post...then the proceed to go back and reference Grant Morisson's run over and over again. I'm not mad or anything; it just proved my point that his run had a lot of impact.


Now that someone brought up space; I wonder how does the whole space side of the X-men interact with the whole humans; sentinel; end of the world side of things. For example; What's to stop Moira from eliciting help from some X-men Allies in the imperial Guard/Shiar empire. Surely that must come into play. I highly doubt you would truly be able to wipe out mutants with such strong multi-galaxy conquering/spanning conflomerate of an alien race; especially if there remain any Xavier sympathizers that remain from when he was First Consort.

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 1379
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 00:54

Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Magnus » 10 Aug 2019, 07:05

totaldarknessin wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 04:43
Now that someone brought up space; I wonder how does the whole space side of the X-men interact with the whole humans; sentinel; end of the world side of things. For example; What's to stop Moira from eliciting help from some X-men Allies in the imperial Guard/Shiar empire. Surely that must come into play. I highly doubt you would truly be able to wipe out mutants with such strong multi-galaxy conquering/spanning conflomerate of an alien race; especially if there remain any Xavier sympathizers that remain from when he was First Consort.
In POX #1, its said the two large remaining groups of mutants live in a border state of the Shi'ar or as stock for the Imperial Guard. So quite possible we'll see them show up.

Post Reply