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House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Cable » 08 Aug 2019, 18:07

I should also note that the idea that the timeline resets with Moira's ability activation makes no sense because nothing could be happening starting with Secret Wars. Unless you want to try to argue Moira MacTaggert survived the Incurison, which is a pretty big leap to make.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 08 Aug 2019, 18:11

Review of HoX #2 in Vox (with spoilers).

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/8/20758804/x ... el-d23-mcu

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 08 Aug 2019, 18:18

Cable wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 18:07
I should also note that the idea that the timeline resets with Moira's ability activation makes no sense because nothing could be happening starting with Secret Wars. Unless you want to try to argue Moira MacTaggert survived the Incurison, which is a pretty big leap to make.


Great point
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 08 Aug 2019, 18:27

Monolith wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 17:47
I think Larraz is referring to when Moira sits on the bench with Xavier, she's looking to her left (at him). However, in the first few pages, although she's dressed the same, she's looking to her right. So the implication is that Moira is explaining the Many Lives of Moira X to someone other than Xavier, and it's not happening at the same time as the bench scene.

And manuel, about your earlier confusion, imagine Moira's power like David Alleyne's (Prodigy). Moira's power is to transmit the full knowledge of her life from the moment of her death back into the womb. Although infant Moira receives the knowledge, "receiving" is not her power. She has received outside knowledge as a result of a mutant ability she does not have (yet). Comparatively, Prodigy post-Decimation had received outside knowledge as a result of a mutant ability he does not have (anymore).

As for the larger plot, I feel like Moira X's timeline may be the result of her and Xavier selectively removing their own knowledge of Moira's ability throughout the timeline. Like how Xavier erased his own memory of Matthew Malloy. I'm not sure how yet, but I feel like they may try engineering history this way.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Monolith » 08 Aug 2019, 18:31

UXN's Review of House of X --

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 08 Aug 2019, 18:35

Monolith wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 18:31
UXN's Review of House of X --

"Monolith is paying attention."
Lol.

Genuinely, I chuckled.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by summerset » 08 Aug 2019, 18:56

Guys, with all the little clues, like this latest Tweet from Pepe Leraz, I really think my theory that I posted earlier in this thread is not that far fetched.

The thing is Moira life 6 is the 616 timeline until the end of Rosenberg's run. She died before the Genosha genocide and everything that happened from that moment to Uncanny X-men 22 is the lost decade. The decade that she was dead and not around to witness.

Life 10 she decides that life 6 was the best timeline but she changes things by telling Xavier. That's the scene where they are talking on the bench. There's some little differences between both timelines. And that's where Pepe Leraz tweet comes in. I think they are showing us the same scene from both timelines. In one (when they first met) Xavier is at her left and in the other (when she tells Xavier to read her mind) he is at her right.

So they both acted and manipulated events to repeat life 6 until the day of Moira's death. This time she fakes it and spends the next 10 years working to build House of X.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 08 Aug 2019, 19:05

Haven’t read it yet, but how can there be a lost decade after she dies, if upon her death she returns and the timeline resets? When she is reborn with new memories, it changes the past and so the future that existed before her death is erased.

If we’re in the classic shooter-era multiverse, then every re-birth begins a new timeline. That means each old timeline persists after she dies and is reborn. If that’s the case, how does she know anything about the ‘lost decade” unless she learned to travel (or look, at least) between universes in the multiverse?

Maybe I should just read it.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Monolith » 08 Aug 2019, 19:10

IIRC, the "Lost Decade" was a term used in Powers of X #1, from 100 years in the future, describing a period of time in the X-Men's development that wasn't properly chronicled by history in that era.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 08 Aug 2019, 19:17

Gah. Single issues are so f@#$ expensive. Six dollars for a single issue, and no discount for digital? Ugh.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Gremlin » 08 Aug 2019, 19:56

@summerset - I like your theory. Especially with this new info from the artist.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Quick and Dead » 08 Aug 2019, 20:15

Cable wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 16:59
Quick and Dead wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 13:54

I keep thinking about Proteus too. Moira broke up with Professor X without explanation while he was serving in Korea. Knowing the importance of Omega Mutants, could she have intentionally gone back to Joe MacTaggert specifically to produce Proteus?
You kind of get into a Story of Your Life situation (referring to the short story) but you have to think there is a specific reason for Proteus because why in the world would she let that happen again?
Well to be fair, Moira basically kept him chained up in a lab his entire life. He escaped by accident. Maybe she knew how dangerous he was yet wanted him as a failsafe for when things got too bad. But I had forgotten that Proteus was heavily implied to be a product of rape so perhaps this theory isn't so great after all.
Monolith wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 17:47
As for the larger plot, I feel like Moira X's timeline may be the result of her and Xavier selectively removing their own knowledge of Moira's ability throughout the timeline. Like how Xavier erased his own memory of Matthew Malloy. I'm not sure how yet, but I feel like they may try engineering history this way.
Just so I'm reading correctly, Mono, your theory is that Moira approached Xavier in life 10 and had him erase her mind of her past lives and the fact that she had a mutant ability?
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 08 Aug 2019, 20:24

Just bought and read all three.
Monolith wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 19:10
IIRC, the "Lost Decade" was a term used in Powers of X #1, from 100 years in the future, describing a period of time in the X-Men's development that wasn't properly chronicled by history in that era.
Not quite. In PoX #1, there’s a lost period in history, when mutants were leaderless. In HoX #2, Moira mentions a “lost decade” in life four. Life four looks like 616, but Moira didn’t die of the legacy virus.
Quick and Dead wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 20:15
Just so I'm reading correctly, Mono, your theory is that Moira approached Xavier in life 10 and had him erase her mind of her past lives and the fact that she had a mutant ability?
Maybe more of a selective forgetting, with specific memories emerging when necessary based on triggers?

Anyhow, I can see why friends are all worked up over this. This is the first time since Decimation that X-Men is being written like there’s a future worth fighting for. Mutants are being shown as dynamic, adaptive, and full of exciting possibilities. I haven’t felt this energy in an X-Men book since Morison. (Granted, my X-history is spotty from Decimation to now, because whenever I dip my toe it’s been dull, dreary or downright awful).

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 08 Aug 2019, 20:30

Life four differs from 616 in that Moira stayed with Xavier.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 08 Aug 2019, 20:33

summerset wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 18:56
Guys, with all the little clues, like this latest Tweet from Pepe Leraz, I really think my theory that I posted earlier in this thread is not that far fetched.

The thing is Moira life 6 is the 616 timeline until the end of Rosenberg's run. She died before the Genosha genocide and everything that happened from that moment to Uncanny X-men 22 is the lost decade. The decade that she was dead and not around to witness.

Life 10 she decides that life 6 was the best timeline but she changes things by telling Xavier. That's the scene where they are talking on the bench. There's some little differences between both timelines. And that's where Pepe Leraz tweet comes in. I think they are showing us the same scene from both timelines. In one (when they first met) Xavier is at her left and in the other (when she tells Xavier to read her mind) he is at her right.

So they both acted and manipulated events to repeat life 6 until the day of Moira's death. This time she fakes it and spends the next 10 years working to build House of X.

That’s the best theory I’ve seen any where yet...I’m saving this in case you’re right. The only point against it is again you can’t have an actual lost decade if X0 is 10 years to X1. And X1 is the start of HoX and X0 is the beginning of thr X-Men.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 08 Aug 2019, 20:41

Curious,

Back on the HoX #1 thread, there was a lot of speculation that this is a “all is not what it seems” story. Xavier brainwashing or mind controlling mutants. The X-Men in stasis, and these are clones. Etc.

Y’all still feel that way?

To me, this is much more like E is for Extinction, where we are just launched into a whole new status quo with a whole new mood. Some of the details suggest a discontinuity from what came right before, but that will be explained later. Overall, I just sense this is a bold new direction, not some kind of bait and switch. Frankly, I’ll be disappointed if this new direction turns out to be sinister, and the heroes have to destroy the utopian dreams. It’ll just be another retread of stories done a thousand times before.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Quick and Dead » 08 Aug 2019, 20:45

Jordan also posted about Jean's line in Morrison's run so I feel a bit less crazy.

https://twitter.com/cracksh0t/status/11 ... 6727434240
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by EphemeristX » 08 Aug 2019, 20:46

I think it's a bit of Column A and a bit of Column B. Everything is definitely not what it seems with Xavier and Krakoa, but I don't think we're going to return to the previous status quo afterwards. It may not be the complete utopia we're being sold, but I think things are going to fundamentally change for the X-Men and how they're viewed by the world as a whole.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 08 Aug 2019, 20:52

I wonder whether, as events unfold in HoX, we might not see shifting futures in PoX. Maybe the next issue will show a different future based on Moira’s revelation to Charles.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by EphemeristX » 08 Aug 2019, 20:55

I think the PoX future is Moira X's future, but the actual future of the books is going to be what happens with Moira XI.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Nu-D » 08 Aug 2019, 21:13

EphemeristX wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 20:55
I think the PoX future is Moira X's future, but the actual future of the books is going to be what happens with Moira XI.
Yes, clearly part of the climax will be whether Moira makes the right choice to get her eleventh life.

But, if the only way to stop her reincarnation is to kill her before puberty, then we know the Moira sitting with Charles and showing him her memories must be reincarnated, right? And we know in her eleventh life, if she gets it, she dies before puberty. So, this can’t be the eleventh, and she must get (at least) one more reincarnation.

Also, Destiny has been wrong before. The future is always shifting and in motion. At the moment she saw Moira during her third life, clearest possible future was 10/11, but much has changed since then, and lesser probability futures may have become more likely.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by tokenBG1009 » 08 Aug 2019, 21:20

This is my biggest issue with the retcon. Moira's whole "you're all forced to live this life over with me" kind of gives me a headache. What the hell did I do in the last 9 lives? Is chaos theory proven untrue simply due to the fact that outside of Moira's influence I managed to live the exact same life every time? I'm going to be real pissed if I win the lottery this Saturday and she dies on Sunday only to get winning numbers and make my jackpot smaller.
Nu-D wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 21:13
EphemeristX wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 20:55
I think the PoX future is Moira X's future, but the actual future of the books is going to be what happens with Moira XI.
Yes, clearly part of the climax will be whether Moira makes the right choice to get her eleventh life.
She determines that her existence in the world is the cause of mutant strife and upon being conceived as Moira XI she pulls a Butterfly Effect.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Lavettye » 08 Aug 2019, 21:21

Actually that bears an interesting question.... what if Moira succeeded in finding all the answers to create a glorious future. How could she even hold on to it? At some point she dies of old age and starts her life all over, and the bright future is gone, with her possibly unable to re-create all the neccessary events to get there again. So would she willingfully put herself in a coma or suspended anmiation to make sure not to die, so that everyone else can experience the bright future?

Also, I'm missing Sinister in these timelines. Sure he was mentioned on the chart, but maybe Moira VI alligned herself with Essex ?
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by EphemeristX » 08 Aug 2019, 21:33

She wouldn't, but I'd assume that reality would still exist beyond her. Maybe I'm wrong in that assumption.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Oldmanlogan79 » 08 Aug 2019, 21:33

EphemeristX wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 20:55
I think the PoX future is Moira X's future, but the actual future of the books is going to be what happens with Moira XI.
Thinking the same thing. Makes more sense according to Hickman when said was not a alternative relity story, so Moiras X would be and ended world and XIs or VI or something 616
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