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House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

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MultipleMadrox
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House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by MultipleMadrox » 07 Aug 2019, 02:46

SO UHHHhhhhhh
Spoiler: show
Moira MacTaggart is a mutant. Her power is that when she dies, she begins her life over again, remembering the life that came before. Otherwise, she is a completely average human and in her first life, she lives a completely average existence. In her second, she figures out she's a mutant after seeing Xavier on television, but she dies in an accident before they can meet.

In her third life, she does meet Xavier after pursuing science in school, but she finds him to be a self-serving d-bag, which who can blame her. However, she swings to the opposite extreme, identifying and then making a cure for the X-gene. This draws the attention of Mystique's Brotherhood, who burn down her lab and kill all her coworkers. Destiny warns Moira that they are arch-nemesii now, and any anti-mutant decisions Moira makes in any future life, Destiny will be there to stop her. Destiny also warns Moira that her powers are limited to living past age thirteen, when her powers activate. She estimates Moira has ten, maybe eleven, goes at it before her luck runs out and she dies forever. She then has Pyro burn Moira alive.

In her fourth life, Moira respects Destiny's advice-murder and gives Xavier a second chance. This time, she sees his softer side and becomes a believer in the dream, helping him found the school. She sticks through him through all of the X-Men reboots, including, hilariously, "The Lost Decade" represented on panel by AvX. Hickman said it, not me. Eventually, they're all killed by sentinels.

In her fifth life, Moira lets Xavier read her mind for the first time, he builds a utopia (though not THE Utopia) called Faraway, but again, they're attacked by sentinels. Interestingly, at the back of the book in a timeline of all her lives, it's stated that Moira is only put in a coma from the sentinels, and later dies from "Genocide at Faraway." :shock:

[SIXTH LIFE LEFT CONSPICUOUSLY MYSTERIOUS]

In her seventh life, Moira assassinates everyone in the Trask bloodline, because listen, she is (mentally) old af at this point and she has HAD IT. Unfortunately, someone else makes sentinels (or it's implied sentinels may have evolved on their own???) and she is killed by sentinels a third time.

In her eighth life, Moira doubles down on murder and allies herself with Magneto, but he is defeated by the X-Men and Avengers and she is said later to have died in a botched prison escape.

In her ninth life, Moira takes it all the way to Apocalypse. Together they kill Xavier and Magneto and found the X-Men themselves. This happens off-panel, which is an absolute shame. They also enslave Sinister and start the Apocalypse War. It is not said how she meets her end, but she apparently has some sort of epiphany because...

Her tenth life is similar to the 616 timeline, or the true X-Men history that we know. She marries Joseph MacTaggart and births Proteus, founds the Muir Island institute, etc. The only discrepancy that I noticed (besides the obvious retcon of her mutant powers and the scene from Powers of X) is that her "death" occurs when she is 50, a year after the Genoshan genocide. Also, she secretly fakes her death by using a Shi'ar golem. Two years after said golem, House of X begins.
I am completely down for this twist. Didn't see it coming in any way, shape, or form. I'm curious if
Spoiler: show
her possible eleventh life is actually our timeline and that's where the story will pick up after House of X/Powers of X.
I absolutely loved loved loved the scene with the Brotherhood.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 07 Aug 2019, 03:38

Now look if we’re to follow Hickman’s own internal logic then
Spoiler: show
X0 from PoX said that year was 10 years before tbe start of the x-men, so Moira is 40 then? And the slaughter of genosha happened how many years before the X1 time?
This is getting more complicated lol and I love it!
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by tokenBG1009 » 07 Aug 2019, 04:07

That's something.

House of X is definitely going to be the side of this story I enjoy. Quote me on this so when both have run their course das or Nu_D can come around and remind me of the silly things I've said.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by EphemeristX » 07 Aug 2019, 04:09

Right now, HoX is the one that has direct consequences for the X-Men. When/if PoX connects to HoX, it'll matter more to me too.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Leo » 07 Aug 2019, 04:28

Holy wow, I didn't see this one coming! I was wondering how
Spoiler: show
Moira
played a role in all of this but never in my wildest dream I thought of this. Damn, Hickman!
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Quick and Dead » 07 Aug 2019, 06:50

I remember Hickman tweeted the page of Moira and Charles staring at each other on the bench and said it would be the most important page in X-Men history and wow, looks like he wasn't overhyping it.

This new direction with Moira sounds so silly on paper and yet it really worked for me here. I'm so excited to see where this goes. The timeline at the back of the issue... if 616 represents Moira's 10th life where she and Chuck "broke all the rules," then it looks like we're going to be seeing a lot of secret history stuff moving forward.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by tokenBG1009 » 07 Aug 2019, 08:18

It's such a weird and unnecessary retcon, but at the same time, it doesn't bother me.

At the same time, it makes no damn sense. Is everything rewound back to the beginning of her life?
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Gremlin » 07 Aug 2019, 08:48

Yeah I’m down for this. So if we are in life 10 then she apparently faked her death with a Shi’ar Golem?
Normally a retcon like this would bug me but this entire issue really fleshed everything out and it felt a bit more natural because of it.

I wonder what happened in the sixth life as that was mysteriously and blatantly omitted.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by UrbanExplorer » 07 Aug 2019, 08:50

You guys think Hickmann is referring to „Dream‘s End“? I mean after that scene I always believed that Moira did have some kind of power.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by hotknives » 07 Aug 2019, 09:35

This blew my mind! What an exciting decision - putting Moira front and centre of X-Men history and making her truly integral.
I think this is brilliant - I knew Hickman was going to pull the rug from under my feet, but I wasn't expecting him to do something like this so swiftly.

Also - Destiny was fantastic here. Brilliantly written. I'd love to see her back again - there was such a strong sense of unease in her scene.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Flapflop » 07 Aug 2019, 09:50

This was amazing, getting even more interesting. Love the retcon with Moira being a mutant herself, her power being reincarnation. Its ridiculous but makes sense at the same time.

So the Moira we all know is the tenth one, if i read the timelines correct. But that means her 'death' in Dreams End was probably a fake one as well and she is still somewhere now.

Getting more and more eXited where this all will lead. Hickman Chapeaux!
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 07 Aug 2019, 11:47

But what is the Genoshan Genocide he’s referring to? Morrison’s or something else? Because the timelines don’t add up if that’s it.

I’ll be the lone voice who says
Spoiler: show
Life 11 is going to be the actual 616 timeline.


But anyone else curious about what happened to mutants in life 1? And life 6? Also I wonder what happened in the Apoccy Life since we didnt see it end.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Gremlin » 07 Aug 2019, 12:52

Going on the timelines at the back of the issue I think we are in life 10. Each of these lives is essentially an alt reality, every time Moira is reborn she alters the course of events and creates a splinter timeline.

Love the subtle dig at the past decade of stories as the “lost decade”
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Flapflop » 07 Aug 2019, 13:19

Gremlin wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 12:52
Going on the timelines at the back of the issue I think we are in life 10. Each of these lives is essentially an alt reality, every time Moira is reborn she alters the course of events and creates a splinter timeline.
And the current 10th is the 616 universe albeit with some twists still (like she wasn't killed by Mystique)

Moira's mutant power of reincarnation feels to me the most dramatic power someone could have. Reincarnation ok, but remembering all your former lives (the good time and bad times) seems a real curse.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by SW442 » 07 Aug 2019, 13:41

Flapflop wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 13:19
Gremlin wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 12:52
Going on the timelines at the back of the issue I think we are in life 10. Each of these lives is essentially an alt reality, every time Moira is reborn she alters the course of events and creates a splinter timeline.
And the current 10th is the 616 universe albeit with some twists still (like she wasn't killed by Mystique)

Moira's mutant power of reincarnation feels to me the most dramatic power someone could have. Reincarnation ok, but remembering all your former lives (the good time and bad times) seems a real curse.
Ellie (Deadpool's) got a better & worse in some ways version of the power. When she gets killed, she's reborn at the exact age she was when her power manifested. SO unlike Moira, she doesn't have to go all the way back to the womb and be born a human again waiting for the gene to activate.



But in a way, scary because it means she's truly immortal and if she's ever placed in a situation like being set on fire, as Moira was, she's just keep trying to rebirth fast as she burns. As opposed to Moira who can actually die

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by SW442 » 07 Aug 2019, 13:42

SW442 wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 13:41
Flapflop wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 13:19
Gremlin wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 12:52
Going on the timelines at the back of the issue I think we are in life 10. Each of these lives is essentially an alt reality, every time Moira is reborn she alters the course of events and creates a splinter timeline.
And the current 10th is the 616 universe albeit with some twists still (like she wasn't killed by Mystique)

Moira's mutant power of reincarnation feels to me the most dramatic power someone could have. Reincarnation ok, but remembering all your former lives (the good time and bad times) seems a real curse.
Ellie (Deadpool's) got a better & worse in some ways version of the power. When she gets killed, she's reborn at the exact age she was when her power manifested, memories intact. So unlike Moira, she doesn't have to go all the way back to the womb and be born a human again waiting for the gene to activate.



But in a way, scary because it means she's truly immortal and if she's ever placed in a situation like being set on fire, as Moira was, she's just keep trying to rebirth fast as she burns. As opposed to Moira who can actually die
Last edited by SW442 on 07 Aug 2019, 19:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 07 Aug 2019, 13:50

tokenBG1009 wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 08:18
It's such a weird and unnecessary retcon, but at the same time, it doesn't bother me.
Weird, yes. Unnecessary? Hell no! That criticism makes no sense. Her ability to resurrect is the essential piece for the story Hickman's telling and changes everything that we know.
tokenBG1009 wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 08:18
At the same time, it makes no damn sense. Is everything rewound back to the beginning of her life?
Yes, she's reborn the exact same way, at the exact same time.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Flapflop » 07 Aug 2019, 13:55

Usernamenotimportant wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 13:50
tokenBG1009 wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 08:18
At the same time, it makes no damn sense. Is everything rewound back to the beginning of her life?
Yes, she's reborn the exact same way, at the exact same time.
Like Groundhog Day but then from the birth, not already grownup

So basically we have now already 10 diffrent timelines
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by totaldarknessin » 07 Aug 2019, 14:29

1. Interesting twist; Overall I'm not for this as I like the fact that Moira was just a human.

2. However; I still agree that House of X is far better than Powers of X; though there is too limited a sample size to really make that conclusion.

3. I would definitely would have liked to see that Moira and Apocalypse team up play out. That would have been interesting.

4. Her powers really isn't a re-incarnation as it is a Time loop and again; I still think playing with time; playing with alternate dimensions and overly amping up peoples powers lead to bad story telling. She is not being re-incarnated in the future; she is looping time back over again to when she is conceived and having the knowledge of prior lives baked in. In a way; she is bending the time line of the entire universe/multiverse as every being is subjected to the change and other than Destiny; they all are unaware of said change. like for example; she could conceivably prevent the avengers from forming; prevent Thanos from getting the infinity rings; make the mutants aware that Galactus will be coming prior to him even coming and so forth. Right now Hickman is limiting it to just the X-men but any Marvel event can now be undone if it has a negative consequence; by simply having moira be aware of it; kills herself and act on the event prior to it occur in the next roll back of the time line.

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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Quick and Dead » 07 Aug 2019, 14:43

In typical Hickman fashion, the graphic at the end of the issue raises a lot more questions than answers.

- Where is life 6?
- How and when did Moira die in life 9?
- Is 616 life 10? If so, why is her fake death placed after the Genosha genocide and what are they referring to when they mention the Magneto/Xavier/Moira schism?

Speaking of the graphic at the end, I'm not sure how I feel about Hickman relying so heavily on prose, charts, etc. to deliver information. The blend of art and text is what makes comic books such a beautiful form of storytelling so to see so much story delivered on pages that don't embrace that is kind of a bummer.

Also, that might have been the best Destiny scene ever. Chilling. And how do we feel about Pyro calling her "mother"?
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 07 Aug 2019, 14:47

Usernamenotimportant wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 13:50
tokenBG1009 wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 08:18
It's such a weird and unnecessary retcon, but at the same time, it doesn't bother me.
Weird, yes. Unnecessary? Hell no! That criticism makes no sense. Her ability to resurrect is the essential piece for the story Hickman's telling and changes everything that we know.
tokenBG1009 wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 08:18
At the same time, it makes no damn sense. Is everything rewound back to the beginning of her life?
Yes, she's reborn the exact same way, at the exact same time.

Not to dig up old arguments but it’s funny to see you and token being on opposite sides of similar argument yall had about certain things being unnecessary or necessary for a Rosenberg story lol...irony is our collective mutant power lol
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 07 Aug 2019, 14:49

Quick and Dead wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 14:43
In typical Hickman fashion, the graphic at the end of the issue raises a lot more questions than answers.

- Where is life 6?
- How and when did Moira die in life 9?
- Is 616 life 10? If so, why is her fake death placed after the Genosha genocide and what are they referring to when they mention the Magneto/Xavier/Moira schism?

Speaking of the graphic at the end, I'm not sure how I feel about Hickman relying so heavily on prose, charts, etc. to deliver information. The blend of art and text is what makes comic books such a beautiful form of storytelling so to see so much story delivered on pages that don't embrace that is kind of a bummer.

Also, that might have been the best Destiny scene ever. Chilling. And how do we feel about Pyro calling her "mother"?
All the questions I have QaD...Although I guess the schism like when Xavier and Mags went there separate ways? Which would be weird because that apparently happened 2 years before the events of E is for Extinction or Dream’s End? So when was X0 then in relation to X1 in this timeline. See this is why I’ll still stick my idea that the “real” 616 will be life 11...

Also, pyro calling Destiny mother was terrifying...
Last edited by Blackcyclops on 07 Aug 2019, 14:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by das_boot » 07 Aug 2019, 14:50

What... what the fuck? WHAT THE ACTUAL. Oh. My. God.
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Blackcyclops » 07 Aug 2019, 14:53

Now before I get yelled at, just wanna point out that Hickman put in ages lol...

So if Moira is 52 at the time of X0...Xavier should be mentally like what? 58 maybe? That makes Magneto a hell of a lot older than Xavier (mentally) lol
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Re: House of X #2 (SPOILERS)

Post by Crutey Anth » 07 Aug 2019, 14:54

Still digesting this issue so will have some thoughts later.

If people do find this powerset interesting I'd suggest the book 'the first fifteen lives of Harry August' which has the same set-up. It gets bigger and more complicated though as other people have the same power so their lives cross-over and intersect (and the future can get messages back to the past through a life-time version of telephone. On your death bed a toddler walks in and tells you they have a message to pass they recieved on their death bed etc). It's interesting.


I'm now wondering if Destiny plays a bigger role as we go forward....does she know all of the futures Moira experienced?

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