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Extermination #2

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Blackcyclops
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Extermination #2

Post by Blackcyclops » 29 Aug 2018, 10:39

OG X-Force is back!!!!
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das_boot
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by das_boot » 29 Aug 2018, 16:11

Never mind OG X-Force, this whole issue... I’m starting to think that maybe Young Cable is kidnapping the O5 based on how much psychological/physiological changes he has to do to send them back but... DAMN.
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by InsipidLust » 29 Aug 2018, 16:13

Another solid issue, though paced very quickly compared to the last one. I can't wait for the next. I can't wait to read this as a full collection as well.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Blackcyclops » 29 Aug 2018, 16:41

You think he’s going to put Bobby “back in the closest”? I mean that right there would be really messed up, worse than ripping off Warren’s cosmic wings
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das_boot
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by das_boot » 29 Aug 2018, 17:05

Blackcyclops wrote:
29 Aug 2018, 16:41
You think he’s going to put Bobby “back in the closest”? I mean that right there would be really messed up, worse than ripping off Warren’s cosmic wings
If he has to erase all of their memories of their time in the present to send them back, then he kind of has to— otherwise, the point at which Teen Bobby returns to his time, the present then shifts to an adult Bobby who’s never dated women, never chased Polaris... potentially simplifying things for Havok, meaning he and Polaris are potentially married with kids, meaning Magneto legitimately has grandkids etc.

It also means that Warren would know that his original wings would grow back post-amputation, that he would never have attempted suicide and become Archangel, meaning someone else would have become Death...

I know this isn’t guaranteed but the way that i’m choosing to read this now is that the O5 have ALWAYS come to the present and have ALWAYS gone back. Meaning that whatever knowledge they had, has to have been erased and this is just the means to that end. I’m guessing they can write it away as meaning that the reason that the present hasn’t changed is because they’ve always gone back to their own time with no knowledge of it, because if they still had their memories, they’d know to avoid stuff, up to and including all the Phoenix stuff that Jean went through
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by EphemeristX » 29 Aug 2018, 21:15

Beast would never experiment on himself, Cyclops would know his dad is alive and that he has a third brother, Angel would likely know how his parents die and avoid it, Jean would be on the lookout for her sister's disappearance and would potentially stop her entire family from being eradicated, Nate and/or Rachel may never exist, the team would know about Krakoa and would likely deal with it another way, meaning that Moira's team would probably live... the ramifications are insane.
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das_boot
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by das_boot » 29 Aug 2018, 21:28

I feel another thread in X-Pressions coming on...
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Jazzkantine » 29 Aug 2018, 22:04

Maybe young Cable is using Mimic‘s original 05 powers to make the young 05 compatible again to their time? Next to cutting off wings..

I see Omega going havoc again..
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Anna Raven
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Anna Raven » 29 Aug 2018, 22:57

This was another really solid issue. Did it seem like there were two Kitty's in one panel, the big spread where Shatterstar enters? Was that an art mistake or am I mistaking a Kitty for someone else? Or is there a Skrull in the room!?
Last edited by Anna Raven on 29 Aug 2018, 23:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Magnus
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Magnus » 29 Aug 2018, 23:07

It does look an awful lot like two Kitties, but I think the one with the X on her chest is supposed to be Armor (since she shows up in other scenes, and the artist does seem to draw her hair similarly, looking at the last page).

It certainly confused the letterer, since the speech bubble ("Let's get started") is pointing to Armor (behind the desk) instead of Kitty (in front of the desk).

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Blackcyclops » 29 Aug 2018, 23:20

Jazzkantine wrote:
29 Aug 2018, 22:04
Maybe young Cable is using Mimic‘s original 05 powers to make the young 05 compatible again to their time? Next to cutting off wings..
That makes sense actually

I love a good “everybody gathered together” scene...its one of two things that Bendis always did well.
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by das_boot » 29 Aug 2018, 23:47

Clearly we’re going to have a confrontation between the X-Men and Cable and since we know that the O5 are heading back, this actually raises another ethical dilemma— do our time’s O5 have the right to allow Cable to wipe their younger selves memories? It’s essentially them, but with so much having changed... are they ACTUALLY the same people as the O5 in our time?

It feels like that recent Uncanny issue almost set us up to ask the question— is enforced blissful ignorance moral? And considering how much Jean et al complained about how being an X-Man had ruined their lives... would they even ALLOW them to be wiped, knowing how they feel now?

Ugh.

Anyway, I also think that the grey kids from last issue are related to Ahab in some way. One of them touched OML and then minutes later, OML is a Hound. Hmmmm. I smell something fishy...
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Jazzkantine » 30 Aug 2018, 00:09

Beast should have saved Petra, Sway, and non-crazy Vulcan just before they died and team them up with Darwin again.
In my opinion there could have also been some great stories written. Just my 2 cents...

I am waiting for Nate Grey to make his entry and doing some revenge stuff after Cable‘s death.
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by WonderDoug » 30 Aug 2018, 02:19

Jazzkantine wrote:
29 Aug 2018, 22:04
Maybe young Cable is using Mimic‘s original 05 powers to make the young 05 compatible again to their time? Next to cutting off wings..

I see Omega going havoc again..
That's what I'm thinking is going to happen. I mentioned in the preview thread for this issue that it seemed like
Spoiler: show
Mimic looked really young and I couldn't tell if this was present or past Mimic, and unfortunately we are going to have to wait.
Did I miss something or
Spoiler: show
where is Bishop in all this? We are dealing with a lot of time travel and having him appear in the promo for Uncanny, but not seeing him here? Maybe they're stalling on bringing him in towards the end and his actions will be something so noteworthy it will redeeming his character?
Last edited by WonderDoug on 30 Aug 2018, 03:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Aug 2018, 02:24

I know you just got to collecting, so some Bishop pointers to get you up to date: Bishop’s future is now just an alternate timeline (so his knowledge of events won’t jive with this seemingly new Lil Cable), and current Bishop’s only time-travel related thing is his Doomsday scenario meter (forgot the exact name of it) that helps him stop apocalypses (not THe Apoccy). So it’s possible Ahab or even the future Lil Cable saw in #1 could be events that show up on his radar now but I guess we won’t know until he possibly shows up.

Fyi: if you reference future stuff (even covers), use spoiler tags because not everyone here looks at solicits and stuff.
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by WonderDoug » 30 Aug 2018, 03:08

Gotcha on the Spoilers. I made an edit. Sorry the board have been upgraded since I left and I'm working out some of the kinks.

Thanks for the catch up on Bishop. It's been interesting trying to pick up the pieces and play catch up since I quit reading. I was reading monthly for years and stopped right around the time Hope appeared and the Messiah crossovers started. Between trades and catching up on Character Spotlights, I'll get there. lol
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by kalibeast » 30 Aug 2018, 04:21

Blackcyclops wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 02:24

Fyi: if you reference future stuff (even covers), use spoiler tags because not everyone here looks at solicits and stuff.
Man, where would this forum be without Cyke?

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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Jazzkantine » 30 Aug 2018, 08:46

There are two options about Mimic:

1. He is the adult Mimic hiding his wings and then being used to restart the young 05‘s original powers

or

2. He is pre-Mimic Calvin just before he got his powers. Young Cable could transfer the teens’ cosmic powers on Mimic, like some sort of buffer. (Otherwise there are a couple of Mimic-type mutants out there)

But I am not sure about young Mimic, there would usually be a „Then“ textbox on the page.
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Nu-D » 30 Aug 2018, 14:25

Apropos of something:

I’d like to see the Shooter-era rules of Marvel timelines reinstated. When the O5 were taken, a new timeline was born. Hand wave away the Bendis’ ersatz Back to the Future plot. Hell, leave it as a dangler. It was a bad idea anyhow, because it trapped the rest of the writers into the memory erasure or paradox problem.

When the O5 go back, yet another new timeline is born. Then I’d like to see a 4-6 issue alt-U miniseries where the new O5 live the X-Men’s history with the changes we’ve seen. Some of the plot elements y’all have listed above get explored. The X-Men rush into known dangers thinking they’re extra prepared with their foreknowledge; in fights against Cobalt Man and Factor 3 and Erik the Red, that knowledge serves them well. But then some key historical events—Krakoa, D’Ken, Dark Phoenix—somehow go askew and catch them off-guard—rookies being part of the Krakoa team results in some character deaths; Xavier expecting L’landra’s arrival causes the X-Men to be proactive, and D’Ken accelerates his plan, and Jean has to call on the Phoenix to save the universe; etc. the theme being that some historical developments are inevitable; that history and character inexorably lead to certain things happening. How they get there may change, but it will happen nonetheless.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Aug 2018, 16:02

Nu-D wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 14:25
Apropos of something:

I’d like to see the Shooter-era rules of Marvel timelines reinstated. When the O5 were taken, a new timeline was born. Hand wave away the Bendis’ ersatz Back to the Future plot. Hell, leave it as a dangler. It was a bad idea anyhow, because it trapped the rest of the writers into the memory erasure or paradox problem.

When the O5 go back, yet another new timeline is born. Then I’d like to see a 4-6 issue alt-U miniseries where the new O5 live the X-Men’s history with the changes we’ve seen. Some of the plot elements y’all have listed above get explored. The X-Men rush into known dangers thinking they’re extra prepared with their foreknowledge; in fights against Cobalt Man and Factor 3 and Erik the Red, that knowledge serves them well. But then some key historical events—Krakoa, D’Ken, Dark Phoenix—somehow go askew and catch them off-guard—rookies being part of the Krakoa team results in some character deaths; Xavier expecting L’landra’s arrival causes the X-Men to be proactive, and D’Ken accelerates his plan, and Jean has to call on the Phoenix to save the universe; etc. the theme being that some historical developments are inevitable; that history and character inexorably lead to certain things happening. How they get there may change, but it will happen nonetheless.
Actually I think it was Gruenwald who had the rules about time travel and even he had a paradox and predestination rule in time-travel, not just the “time travel is always dimension travel” rule that people always bring up...before that in ththe Silver Age they followed no rules really. But even then during Gruenwald’s time time travel to the past was the “always supposed to happen” predestination thing (best example is THE thing is as Blackbeard, that didn’t create an alt-timeline, The Thing was always meant to be Blackbeard). Nobody has ever really explored something like this with main characters like this.
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by kalibeast » 30 Aug 2018, 19:34

Blackcyclops wrote:
29 Aug 2018, 10:39
OG X-Force is back!!!!
I may be in the minority, but I wish we could have Feral back to complete the lineup.

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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Quick and Dead » 30 Aug 2018, 19:42

That scene with Warren was pretty chilling. No monologuing, no explanation, just sipping his coffee.

But seriously, RIP to Warren's cosmic fire wings. They were pretty awesome.
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by Cable » 30 Aug 2018, 23:01

Nu-D wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 14:25
Apropos of something:

I’d like to see the Shooter-era rules of Marvel timelines reinstated. When the O5 were taken, a new timeline was born. Hand wave away the Bendis’ ersatz Back to the Future plot. Hell, leave it as a dangler. It was a bad idea anyhow, because it trapped the rest of the writers into the memory erasure or paradox problem.
Yeah I agree. Secret Wars was the out. When the universe was destroyed their link to the past was severed. When they go back it just starts a new timeline.

This story is alright. As far as events go Return of Wolverine has been better. And I don't even like that Wolverine is returning so that is sad lol
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by das_boot » 31 Aug 2018, 00:07

Cable wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 23:01
Nu-D wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 14:25
Apropos of something:

I’d like to see the Shooter-era rules of Marvel timelines reinstated. When the O5 were taken, a new timeline was born. Hand wave away the Bendis’ ersatz Back to the Future plot. Hell, leave it as a dangler. It was a bad idea anyhow, because it trapped the rest of the writers into the memory erasure or paradox problem.
Yeah I agree. Secret Wars was the out. When the universe was destroyed their link to the past was severed. When they go back it just starts a new timeline.

This story is alright. As far as events go Return of Wolverine has been better. And I don't even like that Wolverine is returning so that is sad lol
You know, my one issue with this... um... issue... anyway. My one problem with this issue was that Young Cable is stone-cold. Like... at the end of this issue one of my immediate thoughts was that you’d hate this because of young Cable. Again, Young Cable being here means that, to Cable, this had ALWAYS happened and it was pre-determined that he killed his older self and sent the O5 back by cutting off Warrens wings, apparently ENTIRELY without anaesthetic. I suppose my point is that yes Cable is always written as pretty pragmatic, but this stone cold? Nope. Never.
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Re: Extermination #2

Post by EphemeristX » 31 Aug 2018, 00:18

I really don't think this is the same Cable. He wasn't fully white-haired until after he made his jump back into the past to start X-Force. This Cable also seems to not be T-O infected.
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