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Immortal X-Men #10

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Gremlin
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Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Gremlin » 18 Jan 2023, 11:24

I thought things were going so well in the attack against Sinister…and then that last page…
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 18 Jan 2023, 13:15

Well damn…I didn’t see that coming
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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Oldmanlogan79
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Oldmanlogan79 » 18 Jan 2023, 19:14

I found it very good... and I'm scared, and I want to read Sins of Sinister right now...
Spoiler: show
Does anyone have a theory about what happened and why that diamond on the bald head?
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 18 Jan 2023, 19:33

Oldmanlogan79 wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 19:14
I found it very good... and I'm scared, and I want to read Sins of Sinister right now...
Spoiler: show
Does anyone have a theory about what happened and why that diamond on the bald head?
Well
Spoiler: show
Given the narration, I think at some point between resurrection and exile, Sinister took back over Xavier, a plot point fans of X-Men Legacy will remember (it’s wild how many comics this month have been drawing on that particular title lately). It makes the most sense since it’s a direct play on the narration’s final points of dialogue. If the symbol had been a Heart, I would’ve been far more uncertain.
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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Holland Oates
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Holland Oates » 18 Jan 2023, 20:03

Chuck has the worst luck.

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Gremlin
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Gremlin » 18 Jan 2023, 20:15

Blackcyclops wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 19:33
Oldmanlogan79 wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 19:14
I found it very good... and I'm scared, and I want to read Sins of Sinister right now...
Spoiler: show
Does anyone have a theory about what happened and why that diamond on the bald head?
Well
Spoiler: show
Given the narration, I think at some point between resurrection and exile, Sinister took back over Xavier, a plot point fans of X-Men Legacy will remember (it’s wild how many comics this month have been drawing on that particular title lately). It makes the most sense since it’s a direct play on the narration’s final points of dialogue. If the symbol had been a Heart, I would’ve been far more uncertain.
I also thought back to that arc in X-Men Legacy but I’m wondering if it’s more of the fact he has been tampering with Xavier’s backup DNA more recently.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 18 Jan 2023, 21:04

Gremlin wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 20:15
Blackcyclops wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 19:33
Oldmanlogan79 wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 19:14
I found it very good... and I'm scared, and I want to read Sins of Sinister right now...
Spoiler: show
Does anyone have a theory about what happened and why that diamond on the bald head?
Well
Spoiler: show
Given the narration, I think at some point between resurrection and exile, Sinister took back over Xavier, a plot point fans of X-Men Legacy will remember (it’s wild how many comics this month have been drawing on that particular title lately). It makes the most sense since it’s a direct play on the narration’s final points of dialogue. If the symbol had been a Heart, I would’ve been far more uncertain.
I also thought back to that arc in X-Men Legacy but I’m wondering if it’s more of the fact he has been tampering with Xavier’s backup DNA more recently.

Yeah that’s what I thought and meant, I should’ve been clearer lol
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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das_boot
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by das_boot » 18 Jan 2023, 21:14

So I spent most of this issue thinking Xavier was going to die-die— like this absolutely read like a character narrating their final moments…

This was really intriguing to me (although I’m starting to wonder whether the events in Sabretooth and the exiles are happening within a vacuum since folk just keep getting thrown in to the pit whilst seemingly not acknowledging that the pit is emptier than it ought to be). I’ve been a bit dubious about some of the writing on this book recently, but I really enjoyed this issue.
Sinister’s Lab now secretly altering other player’s posts in the RPG section

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Tessa1984
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Tessa1984 » 18 Jan 2023, 21:58

I have a hard time wrapping my head around what exactly Sinister is doing with Moira and it's not clear we know why he's after the Quiet Council, but I am digging this. Assuming all we be clarified in time...or not...
Spoiler: show
As for the big reveal, I recall theories back during HoX/PoX that Xavier wore that helmet because there was a big red diamond underneath.

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das_boot
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by das_boot » 18 Jan 2023, 23:16

Tessa1984 wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 21:58
I have a hard time wrapping my head around what exactly Sinister is doing with Moira and it's not clear we know why he's after the Quiet Council, but I am digging this. Assuming all we be clarified in time...or not...
Spoiler: show
As for the big reveal, I recall theories back during HoX/PoX that Xavier wore that helmet because there was a big red diamond underneath.
He’s using Moira clones as a reset point— so he’s cloning her, and the point that clone becomes active is the start of the cycle. If things go poorly for him, the Moira clone is killed and Sinister starts back at that point and is able to pull her memories to see what happened and figure out what he can do differently next time
Sinister’s Lab now secretly altering other player’s posts in the RPG section

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Gremlin
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Gremlin » 18 Jan 2023, 23:22

Xavier had been shown without a helmet lots of times before. I think this new development was implemented after his recent death and resurrection, as a backup by Sinister.

Also, when did Mimic get resurrected? He died in the event where the O5 went back home.
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Tessa1984
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Tessa1984 » 18 Jan 2023, 23:35

das_boot wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 23:16
Tessa1984 wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 21:58
I have a hard time wrapping my head around what exactly Sinister is doing with Moira and it's not clear we know why he's after the Quiet Council, but I am digging this. Assuming all we be clarified in time...or not...
Spoiler: show
As for the big reveal, I recall theories back during HoX/PoX that Xavier wore that helmet because there was a big red diamond underneath.
He’s using Moira clones as a reset point— so he’s cloning her, and the point that clone becomes active is the start of the cycle. If things go poorly for him, the Moira clone is killed and Sinister starts back at that point and is able to pull her memories to see what happened and figure out what he can do differently next time
So when he decides he needs to start fresh, he needs to ensure he gets back to his lab and kill a Moira, who he's uploaded his own memories to? Then she's killed and the timeline restarts to whenever she was created, but now she's got Sinister's memories? And when her life restarts, she's in a test tube? Lol

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 19 Jan 2023, 00:46

Tessa1984 wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 23:35
das_boot wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 23:16
Tessa1984 wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 21:58
I have a hard time wrapping my head around what exactly Sinister is doing with Moira and it's not clear we know why he's after the Quiet Council, but I am digging this. Assuming all we be clarified in time...or not...
Spoiler: show
As for the big reveal, I recall theories back during HoX/PoX that Xavier wore that helmet because there was a big red diamond underneath.
He’s using Moira clones as a reset point— so he’s cloning her, and the point that clone becomes active is the start of the cycle. If things go poorly for him, the Moira clone is killed and Sinister starts back at that point and is able to pull her memories to see what happened and figure out what he can do differently next time
So when he decides he needs to start fresh, he needs to ensure he gets back to his lab and kill a Moira, who he's uploaded his own memories to? Then she's killed and the timeline restarts to whenever she was created, but now she's got Sinister's memories? And when her life restarts, she's in a test tube? Lol
I don’t think that’s exactly it. When the timeline resets the Moira clone he used is used-up. He talks about that when he remarks on the difficulty of the powerset in the previous issue.
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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Magnus
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Magnus » 19 Jan 2023, 05:46

It's interesting how you just know things are gonna go poorly for the heroes, and you're just waiting for the shoe to drop throughout the entire issue, wondering when it's gonna go wrong... still a great reveal at the end though.

Like OML79 though I am wondering the particulars of what's going on... is this the real Xavier albeit being controlled/influenced, or was he swapped out for a clone, etc. Also curious as to timing too. I'm guessing it's a done deal before Xavier's death last issue, because Sinister only has him listed as a 9/10 to kill (along with Storm, Emma and Destiny) whereas Hope is a 10/10 so I don't think his plan hinges on it. Then again Xavier has already died quite a few times (at least twice I can think of - X-Force #1 and Nimrod - maybe Judgment Day too?) in the Krakoan era. And it could've even pre-dated that too, no reason it had to be tied into resurrection.

The "helmet hides the diamond" is an interesting question to consider, since, as Gremlin points out, he has actually been taking off the helmet every now and then (just did it last week in Legion of X for example). My guess is we're not supposed to read too much into it (I mean, he gets resurrected and is sans helmet this very issue) and it's just something he can show off or hide as he wants.

I did very much appreciate getting some insight into Chuck's thoughts, good way to cut against some of the complaints I've had about how he's been written recently. :lol: Him purposely acting sketchy so everyone keeps tabs on him is an interesting angle.

I felt like the art kinda fell off halfway through, and was surprised to check and see only Werneck listed as the artist, I would've guessed it was a fill-in artist. Maybe he was just rushed?
Tessa1984 wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 23:35
So when he decides he needs to start fresh, he needs to ensure he gets back to his lab and kill a Moira, who he's uploaded his own memories to? Then she's killed and the timeline restarts to whenever she was created, but now she's got Sinister's memories? And when her life restarts, she's in a test tube?
Yup, whenever he wants to create his "save point" he creates a new Moira clone, and near-instantly ages it up (long enough to ensure she hits puberty and her X-gene activates) using Velocidad's power, so that basically becomes the timeline-reset point. He uploads all the data to the clone as it happens, and since she remembers across her rebirths, he can then download all the data from her and figure out what happened in the previous timeline he just reset. Hence his line in this issue asking "information?" and getting a "no data" from the computer. Moira herself has roughly 10 resets before her powers burn out, which Sinister has sidestepped using multiple clones, although he noted last issue that the clones apparently aren't easy to create so he is still somewhat limited in how many save points he can make.

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norwichchris
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by norwichchris » 19 Jan 2023, 09:35

How I see it kind of like a Saved File on a game he can go back to that file and restart only the save gets automatically deleted as the Clone dies.

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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Flapflop » 19 Jan 2023, 10:34

I remeber during HoX/PoX and Xavier was hiding his face all the time I, and i think more on this forum, thought he was Sinister already and had a diamond on his head and hinding it under thet Tropic helmet and later Cerebro helmet. But then we got a lot of times where we saw his head and didn't had it.

But the mechanism from X-men Legacy that when a Sinister dies he transfers to someone else could also be correct. We got Miss Sinister back then. Also after AvsX he transfered to that lawyer/pr lady.
"There are some things you're better off not knowing. Believe me. You keep this up and soon...bang bang...you'll cry Havok!."

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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by norwichchris » 19 Jan 2023, 13:23

Flapflop wrote:
19 Jan 2023, 10:34
I remeber during HoX/PoX and Xavier was hiding his face all the time I, and i think more on this forum, thought he was Sinister already and had a diamond on his head and hinding it under thet Tropic helmet and later Cerebro helmet. But then we got a lot of times where we saw his head and didn't had it.
Think that was mainly due to the fact he had Fantomex body he was borrowing for Krakoa then he was shot and killed by assassins and resurrected by the 5. So actually he could have been a Sinister all along but hidden his Diamond which he can do I think.
Flapflop wrote:
19 Jan 2023, 10:34
But the mechanism from X-men Legacy that when a Sinister dies he transfers to someone else could also be correct. We got Miss Sinister back then. Also after AvsX he transfered to that lawyer/pr lady.
Could it be possible he could now transfer his essence to any Mutant who has been resurrected if he felt threatened in anyway.

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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Flapflop » 19 Jan 2023, 13:47

Another possibility is that Sinister switched Cerebrofiles. So the Sinister in the pit is Xavier and Xavier is Sinister. Mutant powers are connected to the body not necessary the mind in the body. Though the right mind is necessary to know thy powers best. But Sinister could manage it I think.

In time, probably with Sins of Sinister, they will tell what really happened here.
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Oldmanlogan79 » 19 Jan 2023, 15:01

There is an image of Xavier resurrecting here where there is no sign of the diamond..this is very intriguing..
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 19 Jan 2023, 15:13

Oldmanlogan79 wrote:
19 Jan 2023, 15:01
There is an image of Xavier resurrecting here where there is no sign of the diamond..this is very intriguing..
Which is why I believe the change happened later.
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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norwichchris
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by norwichchris » 20 Jan 2023, 12:59

The change must have happened after he was resurrected. It can't have been before because then he would have known about Moira. It could be that he has implanted his Genes into every mutant resurrected allowing himself to be resurrected inside another mutants body, he just picked Xavier as his host.

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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by WorldWideWade » 20 Jan 2023, 15:55

Pretty dang good. I actually thought he had somehow switched his brain during the resurrection process but the X-men Legacy plotline makes a lot of sense.

The Mimic being alive is questionable. Did they ever retcon him to be a mutant in 616? Maybe they backed him up because of his former X-men status and made an exception for him.
Books to be excited for:
Immortal X-men, X-men Red, She-Hulk, The Fall of X

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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Cable » 20 Jan 2023, 19:32

I just came in here to say that this is one of the best single issues of an X-Men comic I have ever read. Just such a fascinating dive into Charles Xavier. Even after decades of reading and hundreds of issues it allowed me to look at the character in a new way.
Best Comics of Week 7

X-titles: Wolverine #43 by Victor LaValle (2), Benjamin Percy (3) and Geoff Shaw (1)
Non-X titles: Amazing Spider-Man #43 by Zeb Wells (2) and John Romita Jr (2)

In parentheses number of times creator had best comic this year

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by Blackcyclops » 20 Jan 2023, 20:24

Cable wrote:
20 Jan 2023, 19:32
I just came in here to say that this is one of the best single issues of an X-Men comic I have ever read. Just such a fascinating dive into Charles Xavier. Even after decades of reading and hundreds of issues it allowed me to look at the character in a new way.
I was going to post saying that while the mystery is cool, we can’t overlook just how Gillen peels back and evolves Xavier here. I thought those last few pages were a perfect encapsulation of Xavier’s change from the Carey days till now. And honestly who blames him? It’s important to remember that Xavier has gone having his evil twin return and exposing his secret to the world and endangering his students, watching mutantkind get decimated, facing off with his closest student as a mad god, dying, coming back and seeing mutants even worse off and so much more…like all of that would certainly changr a man’s way of seeing the world.
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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Re: Immortal X-Men #10

Post by clayford » 21 Jan 2023, 02:44

Echoing Blackcyclops, as cool as the ending reveal is and as excited as I am for what comes next, Xavier's inner monologue is the most fantastic piece of character work I've seen since PAD had Quicksilver explain how slow the rest of the world is to him. The bit about how it's Xavier's dream and not Xavier's five year plan to me perfectly summed up how Krakoa has not been the fulfillment of what we were led for decades to believe Xavier's dream was. And the bit about CHOOSING who to bring in to the fold and who NOT to bring in, I NEVER thought Charles would acknowledge that.
Formerly on here as Cly, but forgot my password...and which email address was associated with the account...

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