Legion of X #9

[Blackcyclops]

WHOA!!!!!!!!

That’s it. WHOA!

[das_boot]

That was SUCH a lot

[norwichchris]

What did Xavier do to Legion and why is he such a jerk to him for no apparent reason?

[das_boot]

What did Xavier do to Legion and why is he such a jerk to him for no apparent reason?

I think it’s safe to say that Xavier sees Legion as his biggest failure— he failed him as a father on numerous occasions and he’s absolutely failed to help him control his powers— in fact, it could be argued that Legion was the most in control he’s ever been in the wake of his father’s death. I feel it’s quite overtly stated but I’m reading this as because Xavier’s failed David so hard, and because David is one of the few mutants who poses a serious risk to all of reality should he lose control again (see; Age of Apocalypse, Age of X), Xavier’s kind of doubling down on Legion being such a threat, partially due to his own short-comings as a father, by keeping distant with him and perceiving him as a threat before a person.

[Blackcyclops]

What did Xavier do to Legion and why is he such a jerk to him for no apparent reason?

I think it’s safe to say that Xavier sees Legion as his biggest failure— he failed him as a father on numerous occasions and he’s absolutely failed to help him control his powers— in fact, it could be argued that Legion was the most in control he’s ever been in the wake of his father’s death. I feel it’s quite overtly stated but I’m reading this as because Xavier’s failed David so hard, and because David is one of the few mutants who poses a serious risk to all of reality should he lose control again (see; Age of Apocalypse, Age of X), Xavier’s kind of doubling down on Legion being such a threat, partially due to his own short-comings as a father, by keeping distant with him and perceiving him as a threat before a person.

Bingo…

I take it Norchris you haven’t read X-Men Legacy but I highly recommend it, along with Legion Quest and the classic NM stories with Legion to get a full grasp or check out his spotlight on the site.

[Cable]

It is weird that this series exists on its own, its events never really being touched on in any other book, because it has like the biggest events happening regarding the fate of Krakoa! This title also always feels satisfying too with how much Spurrier has going on in every issue.

[norwichchris]

What did Xavier do to Legion and why is he such a jerk to him for no apparent reason?

I think it’s safe to say that Xavier sees Legion as his biggest failure— he failed him as a father on numerous occasions and he’s absolutely failed to help him control his powers— in fact, it could be argued that Legion was the most in control he’s ever been in the wake of his father’s death. I feel it’s quite overtly stated but I’m reading this as because Xavier’s failed David so hard, and because David is one of the few mutants who poses a serious risk to all of reality should he lose control again (see; Age of Apocalypse, Age of X), Xavier’s kind of doubling down on Legion being such a threat, partially due to his own short-comings as a father, by keeping distant with him and perceiving him as a threat before a person.

Bingo…

I take it Norchris you haven’t read X-Men Legacy but I highly recommend it, along with Legion Quest and the classic NM stories with Legion to get a full grasp or check out his spotlight on the site.

This is where I stopped reading Marvel comics oddly enough as I felt Marvel was ruining them and the Spiderman one more day/brand new day fiasco.

I am wondering know if Xavier do something to him so he could assume control over him or block his powers, I do see Xavier being capable of anything he has clearly lost his way whilst leading a Mutant nation.

I must confess I don't really like Legion much as a character anyway but did love Legion Quest where he tries in vain to ensure his fathers legacy but ends up killing him and himself. I also am starting to dislike Xavier an awful as he has become corrupted by power and has done some very odd things.

[Gremlin]

Honestly X-Men Legacy (2nd Series) is gold. Spurrier’s writing can be tricky to navigate at times, but that series is a very character focused affair that really brings David out and establishes him as a fantastic character. Blindfold co-stars in that title and she also receives some great characterisation she she sorely needed.

[Magnus]

It is weird that this series exists on its own, its events never really being touched on in any other book, because it has like the biggest events happening regarding the fate of Krakoa! This title also always feels satisfying too with how much Spurrier has going on in every issue.

Yeah it's a bit weird how not-connected Spurrier's stuff is given how much it reaches into the core of Krakoa. Stuff like Onslaught and the Altar and what's happening here feel like stuff that would be a Big Deal, but they're not really tied in anywhere else, it feels like they're just letting Spurrier do his own thing. Which may be a good idea from a writing standpoint though given how intricate and detailed his plots are.

And there really is a LOT going on here. Almost too much, maybe. It's interesting to compare to other books - Marauders under Orlando seems clearly a case of too much, this doesn't go that far. But compare it to X-Men #18 this week, which is basically an entire issue all around one conversation between the two Lauras. There's a couple of pages on the B-plot with the X-Men rescuing Orchis, and some set dressing for a tie-in with X-Terminators (which, until this, also felt in a bubble!), but it's pretty much all about the meeting, and even then it's not that much of a conversation.

This issue OTOH has the demon mutations, Xavier 'reaching out' to his son, the attack on the Altar by Nimrod, Margali (!) is revealed to be behind the demon stuff, but twist she's really just hired by Orchis, and the Technarchy is also involved, and you've got Ghost Rider Banshee (still a really bizarre concept to me) and Mother Righteous hanging around... it's a LOT, indeed. Still, I'd rather too much than too little, and this generally holds together and is followable, if just barely.

Also Xavier sucks and at this point I kinda wish he'd get some redemption, feels like everyone recently has been writing him as an insufferable jerkwad. I know there's plenty of material for "Professor Xavier is a jerk" but eventually it gets too much and it isn't believable that any other characters would put him up with him anymore. What's going on with Beast I think gets more of the flak now (rightly so) but Xavier isn't much better. Magneto was sorta going down the same road, but 1) treated his kids a lot better and 2) got out at the right time and had a nice redemptive story arc in X-Men Red.

[norwichchris]

Also Xavier sucks and at this point I kinda wish he'd get some redemption, feels like everyone recently has been writing him as an insufferable jerkwad. I know there's plenty of material for "Professor Xavier is a jerk" but eventually it gets too much and it isn't believable that any other characters would put him up with him anymore. What's going on with Beast I think gets more of the flak now (rightly so) but Xavier isn't much better. Magneto was sorta going down the same road, but 1) treated his kids a lot better and 2) got out at the right time and had a nice redemptive story arc in X-Men Red.

Well heres a point how far can they go before they become Irredeemable and if they were redeemed it wouldn't feel right. Some actions the writers make can really damage characters just look at Beast, he does have fans who are probably not happy with his turn for the worst. The writers also have a frankly bizarre habit of character assassinating Xavier often but also providing justification for what he has done be it good or bad. A classic example is him wiping Cyclops mind of Vulcan and the first second X-men team.

I will re-read X-Men Legacy maybe then will like the character although one interesting note was that Xavier never opposed Cyclops setting up Utopia and this does lead to Krakoa and everything else.

[Blackcyclops]

This’ll be your first time reading it right? Since you said before thats when you dropped the books.

[Blackcyclops]

Double post

[Blackcyclops]

Unsurprisingly to me and Magnus forever disagreement lol, I disagree a bit about your Xavier claim. Not just because historically Legion is the one area he’s always kinda messed up with so I don’t even begin to compare it to Beast’s path but because here Xavier was actually trying to do the right thing given his whole history with David. He was shown feeling remorse and again being the flawed father he’s always been. The problem is that his tactics happened at the wrong moment, which is I believe Spurrier’s point broadly about Xavier and Legion: it’s always the wrong time.

[das_boot]

“It’s always the wrong time” is probably the best summary of their entire relationship. Like, there’s SO much that could be done with a father/son reconciliation storyline that… well… sigh. We’ve seen it before, on a smaller scale in terms of power levels… but the dynamic between these two is way more interesting to me as an “I WANT to love you and be your father/son, but it’s ALWAYS the wrong time for that to be reconciled”

[Blackcyclops]

It is weird that this series exists on its own, its events never really being touched on in any other book, because it has like the biggest events happening regarding the fate of Krakoa! This title also always feels satisfying too with how much Spurrier has going on in every issue.

Is it really that much of an outlier? I mean most of the books besides maybe X-Men and Percy’s two books, rarely have significant crossover. In fact, I thought that was a good thing? It’s not like the books ignore each other but they don’t bog each other down.

And as far as the events being the biggest, couldn’t someone had said that about NM’s Ayala run with SK basically being SK and was just as potential a problem as Onslaught? Or how about in Marauders, where a wrong move in the past could have literally erased Krakoa? Or Knights of X, where OtherWorld, the one weakness to Krakoa, was at their door? I’m not saying Spurrier isn’t making big moves here but it’s not as though other seemingly self-contained stories aren’t as well.

Really the 1 thing Spurrier hasn’t done is actually write a crossover/big book. Duggan had the Hellfire Gala, Hickman had Inferno, Howard of X of Swords, Williams had the Trial of Mags, Percy had his Wolverine crossover, and Gillen has Sins of Sinister.

[Cable]

It is weird that this series exists on its own, its events never really being touched on in any other book, because it has like the biggest events happening regarding the fate of Krakoa! This title also always feels satisfying too with how much Spurrier has going on in every issue.

Is it really that much of an outlier? I mean most of the books besides maybe X-Men and Percy’s two books, rarely have significant crossover. In fact, I thought that was a good thing? It’s not like the books ignore each other but they don’t bog each other down.

And as far as the events being the biggest, couldn’t someone had said that about NM’s Ayala run with SK basically being SK and was just as potential a problem as Onslaught? Or how about in Marauders, where a wrong move in the past could have literally erased Krakoa? Or Knights of X, where OtherWorld, the one weakness to Krakoa, was at their door? I’m not saying Spurrier isn’t making big moves here but it’s not as though other seemingly self-contained stories aren’t as well.

These don't really apply because the question is whether people on Krakoa would notice it. SK operates in the shadows, Marauders was in another time, Knights of X was in another dimension. Events in this book have gotten so momentous that it seems like anyone else on Krakoa would surely take notice. And it doesn't have to be 'significant crossover', it could be as much as a mention of things. True that Nightcrawler's new appearance has been brought up elsewhere, but the actual events now seem worthy of acknowledgement.

[norwichchris]

This’ll be your first time reading it right? Since you said before thats when you dropped the books.

It was a while ago think it was just after Messiah complex then read a few more graphic novels from Uncanny X-Force which I thought where actually really good and far superior than current ones. Did think read about Xavier in Legacy trying to recover his memories after Bishop shot him in the head and it had him travelling across the USA searching for his past. I know Magik resurrected Legion to kill the Elder gods because she hated them for abusing her. Honestly I was starting to loose respect for Marvel as they where blatantly trying to ruin the X-Men as much as possible with the inhumans.

“It’s always the wrong time” is probably the best summary of their entire relationship. Like, there’s SO much that could be done with a father/son reconciliation storyline that… well… sigh. We’ve seen it before, on a smaller scale in terms of power levels… but the dynamic between these two is way more interesting to me as an “I WANT to love you and be your father/son, but it’s ALWAYS the wrong time for that to be reconciled”

Well I want to see Xavier/Cyclops have a heart to heart over Cyclops killing Xavier in AVX as well as Xavier violating his mind.

The art I still feel is superior to the current set of artists who was the artist for Legacy? did it change I just remember from the ones I read being really impressed with the Art and even Messiah complex although messy was well drawn as well.

[Blackcyclops]

It is weird that this series exists on its own, its events never really being touched on in any other book, because it has like the biggest events happening regarding the fate of Krakoa! This title also always feels satisfying too with how much Spurrier has going on in every issue.

Is it really that much of an outlier? I mean most of the books besides maybe X-Men and Percy’s two books, rarely have significant crossover. In fact, I thought that was a good thing? It’s not like the books ignore each other but they don’t bog each other down.

And as far as the events being the biggest, couldn’t someone had said that about NM’s Ayala run with SK basically being SK and was just as potential a problem as Onslaught? Or how about in Marauders, where a wrong move in the past could have literally erased Krakoa? Or Knights of X, where OtherWorld, the one weakness to Krakoa, was at their door? I’m not saying Spurrier isn’t making big moves here but it’s not as though other seemingly self-contained stories aren’t as well.

These don't really apply because the question is whether people on Krakoa would notice it. SK operates in the shadows, Marauders was in another time, Knights of X was in another dimension. Events in this book have gotten so momentous that it seems like anyone else on Krakoa would surely take notice. And it doesn't have to be 'significant crossover', it could be as much as a mention of things. True that Nightcrawler's new appearance has been brought up elsewhere, but the actual events now seem worthy of acknowledgement.

Okay, that’s fair.
And by significant crossover I didn’t mean actual crossover, I meant like something that just occurred in X-Men last week with the X-Terminators. Or like how Legion popped up in X-Men Red during AXE.

[tokenBG1009]

Forever going to remember Judgement Day and Xavier's failure. That scene hurt more than just about any other.