X-Force #34

[tokenBG1009]

This is valid. I think there's some ways it could work, but it is a pretty two sided fight.

[norwichchris]

But it would still be Humans vs Mutants as the Artificial Machines are created by humanity to combat Mutant-kind ascendence. Although the Machines do revolt against them but I never really understood this as both Omega/Nimrod were originally humans or converted into Cybernetic organisms so would that not imply some loyalty to humanity.

I understand the end goal is to get assimilated by the Phalanx but they need humanity to aide in there creation as have not yet seen artificial machines replicating each other except with Uranus machines he used on Mars.

[Blackcyclops]

But it would still be Humans vs Mutants as the Artificial Machines are created by humanity to combat Mutant-kind ascendence. Although the Machines do revolt against them but I never really understood this as both Omega/Nimrod were originally humans or converted into Cybernetic organisms so would that not imply some loyalty to humanity.

I understand the end goal is to get assimilated by the Phalanx but they need humanity to aide in there creation as have not yet seen artificial machines replicating each other except with Uranus machines he used on Mars.

It’s not humanity, at least according to the books. That’s kind of Hickman’s point: that artificial life will arise regardless. He’s explored that before during his Avengers run with the Mapmakers and the Ultron-world future. Even a benevolent AI has the potential to evolve to a point that it is a threat to organic life. And we see through the Phalanx (who weren’t made by humans) that artificial life will arise somehow.
It’s a point not too far off from real world futurist who cautioned about AI.

[tokenBG1009]

Because I'm still stuck on the idea, the third pillar may not be Nature, but regression. Both Mutants and Machines are agents of change. It would be interesting, though this probably isn't entirely on topic, for a force to come out not wanting to change at all. The more I think about it the more I'm surprised we haven't seen a force that's coming out against both mutants and machines. While it's still Natural vs Artificial, the third branch is looking at both as the young upstarts trying to change shit.

Nature has always been there and will always be there unless the machines consume everything. It then gives an interesting question of where Krakoa falls. Would Krakoa turn against mutants or would it be similar to Warlock?

[Blackcyclops]

Problem is that nature itself is about “change”…evolution is of course a normal process that occurs. Similarly so is mutation…

The conservative position against change is humanity, technically (but the thing is by the very nature of life on Earth, change/evolution/mutation is inevitable both pre and post-Hickman). The thing is, that as they are, they can’t compete. So they start toward the machines…but the thing is that artificial intelligence would arise on Earth even if mutants weren’t the problem. We’ve seen that on Earths were machines only ended up coming out and killing the non-mutant superheroes and we see out in space that artificial lifeforms arise independent of a humanity.

[tokenBG1009]

The way I'd see it is that mutants are a natural change, but it's a change by design, especially when Sinister is on the field.

It doesn't really work, but it was interesting to me when I was thinking on it

[Blackcyclops]

Well you could argue that nature (ie Gaea) is natural change whereas mutants (even before Aaron’s Avengers and Gillen’s Eternals) are always discussed as a byproduct of Celestial meddling. So perhaps have a battle between mutants and Gaea

[norwichchris]

But it would still be Humans vs Mutants as the Artificial Machines are created by humanity to combat Mutant-kind ascendence. Although the Machines do revolt against them but I never really understood this as both Omega/Nimrod were originally humans or converted into Cybernetic organisms so would that not imply some loyalty to humanity.

I understand the end goal is to get assimilated by the Phalanx but they need humanity to aide in there creation as have not yet seen artificial machines replicating each other except with Uranus machines he used on Mars.

It’s not humanity, at least according to the books. That’s kind of Hickman’s point: that artificial life will arise regardless. He’s explored that before during his Avengers run with the Mapmakers and the Ultron-world future. Even a benevolent AI has the potential to evolve to a point that it is a threat to organic life. And we see through the Phalanx (who weren’t made by humans) that artificial life will arise somehow.
It’s a point not too far off from real world futurist who cautioned about AI.

Well the problem with your argument as mentioned in Hickman's and other books the rise of Artificial intelligence automatically means the end of mutant and by definition natural evolution regardless of what happens on Earth "they will always lose". AI is both inherently dangerous but also incredibly helpful in the real-world but I can see it causing an awful lot of problems with Jobs, Wars and Governments even know if you look at Facebook and what they have been doing.

I would consider even with Celestial meddling Mutants to be a natural evolution as we have seen that they can also evolve and change naturally.