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Wolverine #13

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Oldmanlogan79
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Wolverine #13

Post by Oldmanlogan79 » 23 Jun 2021, 22:20

It seems that this time Beast takes off his mask completely and shows his new ideology for these new times. By the way, how far are those times when Beast was scandalized by almost any decision of Cyclops in Utopia. I have loved Emma, ​​Sage and Wolverine in this comic ...
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das_boot
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by das_boot » 24 Jun 2021, 08:57

We Stan Sage for that backhand
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EphemeristX
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by EphemeristX » 24 Jun 2021, 15:22

Beast had that shit coming for a long time. I'm all for a righteous slap.
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norwichchris
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by norwichchris » 24 Jun 2021, 15:34

Think Mystique was driving the boat and did she just kill Christian? Emma won't be pleased...

Yes Beast did and then tried to make the point he was doing his job which is bad enough....

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tokenBG1009
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by tokenBG1009 » 24 Jun 2021, 16:01

The problem is, Beast isn't entirely wrong. Nations need people to work in the shadows and do shit no one wants to talk about. There's a reason X-Force is basically the CIA of Krakoa.

Flip side, like all destructive ideaologies he's only half right. He sees what he does as righteous when he's becoming a bigger monster than any other.
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norwichchris
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by norwichchris » 25 Jun 2021, 11:27

Beast is in my view completely wrong as he does not consider the consequences of his actions at all and acts with a reckless attitude towards Krakoa security and it's allies abroad. He for example paraded Colossus around as a threat, insulted him and accused him of being a traitor when it was plain it was Omega Red. He also allowed Telefonic lifeforms to spread on Krakoa and nearly destroyed the nation of Terra Verde would if was the council begin monitoring his actions and stop him if necessary he has gone too far many times...

Your right nations do have secret services operating in the shadows though and they do a lot of shitty things like the CIA overthrowing the Government of Iran and installing the Shah only to have it blow up in there faces years later.

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Cable
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by Cable » 27 Jun 2021, 12:19

Them allowing Terra Verde to go away in peace makes little sense. The whole reason they originally went there was over fear of what the technology would BECOME. The Terra Verde were not at that time making aggressive actions against Krakoa; it was pre-emptive. They have now left them in an even more dangerous position. They can all point fingers at Beast (who obviously deserves the most blame) but the accusations of 'colonialism' can apply to everyone in X-Force.

And speaking of hating on Beast, I recall there have been people on the forum who have made very similar arguments that because mutants face annihilation by humans their means justify their ends...
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X-titles: Excalibur #22 by Tini Howard (3) and Marcus To (3)
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 27 Jun 2021, 14:43

What ends are you referring to in terms of Krakoa?

And given that some of the biggest critics of beast are Token and Das boot, that’s not really a strong point lol…they’ve been two of the most vocal, consistent and honest critics of Krakoa since day 1 Without making alot of illogical leaps.
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das_boot
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by das_boot » 27 Jun 2021, 15:31

Like… okay.

There’s a difference in being pro-active to send a warning shot across the bow, and finding a way to basically do what EVERYONE is terrified of mutants doing, and finding a way to control nations.

Beast has LITERALLY justified further fear of mutants in his actions. How could he not? This isn’t a “dont fuck with us, fellas” kind of move, it’s a “look how we can turn your own technology and defences against you so easily, FEAR US”. This isn’t proactively gathering intel and acting on it before it becomes a threat, this is him fully bullying, posturing, and ACTIVELY showing the world that you cannot trust Krakoa.
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by Cable » 27 Jun 2021, 18:06

To be clear, I am not defending Beast; I am just saying I think he is sometimes a scapegoat for having an ideology that is actually applicable to Krakoa as a whole. It is true he takes it to an extreme, but all of X-Force was ok with undermining the poor indigenous people of Terra Verde for the sake of Krakoa's political domination.
Best Comics of Week 28

X-titles: Excalibur #22 by Tini Howard (3) and Marcus To (3)
Non-X titles: Extreme Carnage--Scream by Clay Chapman (1) and Chris Mooneyham (1)

In parentheses number of times creator has had best comic this year

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 27 Jun 2021, 18:56

*Human people…

Which don’t know if they were Indigenous people or not lol…could be the descendants of colonizers.
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Cable
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by Cable » 27 Jun 2021, 19:21

Blackcyclops wrote:
27 Jun 2021, 18:56
*Human people…

Which don’t know if they were Indigenous people or not lol…could be the descendants of colonizers.
The telefluronics that X-Force destroyed (or tried to) out of fear of weaponization were the heritage of the indigenous peoples.
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Best Comics of Week 28

X-titles: Excalibur #22 by Tini Howard (3) and Marcus To (3)
Non-X titles: Extreme Carnage--Scream by Clay Chapman (1) and Chris Mooneyham (1)

In parentheses number of times creator has had best comic this year

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 27 Jun 2021, 23:17

All that said was where the tech came from…

I was jokingly saying the citizens of Terra Verde, given they’re in South America, are prolly a mix of Indigenous people, prolly Africans and some good ol’ European colonizers because colonialism lol
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norwichchris
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by norwichchris » 28 Jun 2021, 06:24

A lot of indigenous groups in South America adopted Catholicism as there Religion and may not necessary have been fully colonized by the Europeans. It does make you wonder though what knowledge did they possess we have now lost sad....
Cable wrote:
27 Jun 2021, 18:06
To be clear, I am not defending Beast; I am just saying I think he is sometimes a scapegoat for having an ideology that is actually applicable to Krakoa as a whole. It is true he takes it to an extreme, but all of X-Force was ok with undermining the poor indigenous people of Terra Verde for the sake of Krakoa's political domination.
I don't think he is being scapegoated as such many of his actions he did of his own free will without the council even knowing about like "colonizing" the people of Terra Verde then using them to spy on South America Nations. No one authorized him to do this however I do feel that Krakoa ideology as a whole is leading towards Mutant Domination much like the House of M reality and further justified peoples fear of Mutants.

It reminds me of the Snowden leaks and how much trouble it caused the US intelligence agencies.

Beast just went too far and needs to be reigned in...

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 28 Jun 2021, 10:51

Which groups did so? I would love to know which ones because Catholicism’s adoption was the consequence of colonialsim, not because entire societies chose to have their religion and cultures erased.
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XtremeOne1
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by XtremeOne1 » 28 Jun 2021, 14:58

Let's not get too deep into the discussion of colonialism guys, that can get off topic very quick

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Monolith
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by Monolith » 28 Jun 2021, 18:18

Beast's argument for his work is "This is a job that NEEDS to be done for Krakoa."

The counter-argument is, "Yes, and you're doing it horribly. Do better."
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by Blackcyclops » 28 Jun 2021, 18:29

XtremeOne1 wrote:
28 Jun 2021, 14:58
Let's not get too deep into the discussion of colonialism guys, that can get off topic very quick
Sorry Xtreme
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norwichchris
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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by norwichchris » 29 Jun 2021, 08:55

Monolith wrote:
28 Jun 2021, 18:18
Beast's argument for his work is "This is a job that NEEDS to be done for Krakoa."

The counter-argument is, "Yes, and you're doing it horribly. Do better."
I completely agree what is worse Beast is failing to realize this and refuses to accept he did anything wrong even when it does go wrong.

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Re: Wolverine #13

Post by tokenBG1009 » 29 Jun 2021, 22:22

I keep trying to come up with witty analogy for Beast and Doctor Doom. I do this because both seem to believe they know what's best for everyone and only they can truly bring this about. The problem is, and this is saying something because I HATE Doctor Doom, but Beast just doesn't deserve it. He's a genius, I will not discount this, but he's the ABSOLUTE worst person to be running X-Force because his arrogance completely blinds him. Doom suffers from this as well, but Doom is at least multi-faceted and won't bullshit you about how he's a good man doing disturbing things.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

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