Welcome to unstablemolecules.com, the discussion home for mightyavengers.net, uncanon.com and uncannyxmen.net!

New Mutants #19

Here you can express your opinions about released issues of the current X-Titles
User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 4386
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

New Mutants #19

Post by das_boot » 16 Jun 2021, 13:28

This was very much a character piece, and we get to see more Dani/Rahne plot beats, Karma gets some nice scenes, as does Proudstar and Warlock.
Spoiler: show
GABBY 😭😭😭😭
X-Centric podcast: coming soon!

User avatar
Gremlin
Posts: 7871
Joined: 17 Apr 2007, 16:55

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Gremlin » 16 Jun 2021, 13:50

I wasn’t a huge fan of the art but I liked a lot of the character interactions that you mentioned. Warpath is one of those characters who I keep forgetting is more than a stabby stabby mutant. But the past two issues he really comes across as a caring big brother type teammate.


I’m wondering if there is more than meets the eye with that last page especially with the body swapping shenanigans from previous issues.
Everybody is entitled you their opinion...but yours is wrong.

User avatar
Flapflop
Posts: 1381
Joined: 13 Sep 2011, 09:10
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Flapflop » 16 Jun 2021, 14:24

das_boot wrote:
16 Jun 2021, 13:28
Spoiler: show
GABBY 😭😭😭😭
This Gala
Spoiler: show
is killing. It has already two deaths in it :o :( And we know we get at least one more because of the Trial of Magneto
"There are some things you're better off not knowing. Believe me. You keep this up and soon...bang bang...you'll cry Havok!."

User avatar
manuel_mc89
Posts: 1024
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 03:12

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by manuel_mc89 » 16 Jun 2021, 15:06

This was an AMAZING issue, all around great charactherization, and i hope that bastard gets a painful death from my girl.
Legion: I will circle around you until the stars die an the world has forgotten what makes us different, and I will shatter any future that dares to divide us.

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 22377
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Blackcyclops » 16 Jun 2021, 18:44

At least I hope Farouk saying that about the Shadow King entity will quell the constant posts about him tricking Xavier or Xavier being evil or whatever.

That letter from Gabby made me tear up.
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 4386
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by das_boot » 16 Jun 2021, 19:42

Blackcyclops wrote:
16 Jun 2021, 18:44

That letter from Gabby made me tear up.
BRO. Solid same.
X-Centric podcast: coming soon!

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 1771
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 00:54

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Magnus » 17 Jun 2021, 02:11

Blackcyclops wrote:
16 Jun 2021, 18:44
At least I hope Farouk saying that about the Shadow King entity will quell the constant posts about him tricking Xavier or Xavier being evil or whatever.
Ever the optimist eh? :lol:

User avatar
Holland Oates
Posts: 335
Joined: 28 Jan 2021, 16:15

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Holland Oates » 17 Jun 2021, 05:02

Farouk was found by the Shadow King in his formative years. He was effectively groomed to be a manipulative predator even in the absence of the Shadow King. Poor Gabby.

User avatar
norwichchris
Posts: 873
Joined: 22 Dec 2019, 18:40

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by norwichchris » 17 Jun 2021, 06:16

Holland Oates wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 05:02
Farouk was found by the Shadow King in his formative years. He was effectively groomed to be a manipulative predator even in the absence of the Shadow King. Poor Gabby.
Indeed although do believe that ultimately as they have both been intertwined for so long they are one in the same entity effectively. Poor Gabby and that letter was like "help I fear my friends are in trouble don't know what to do"

Artwork think was very poor also which is a shame

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 22377
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Blackcyclops » 17 Jun 2021, 13:35

Holland Oates wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 05:02
Farouk was found by the Shadow King in his formative years. He was effectively groomed to be a manipulative predator even in the absence of the Shadow King. Poor Gabby.

That’s what makes everything so much more discomforting…in no uncertain terms it’s very unsettling.
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
Holland Oates
Posts: 335
Joined: 28 Jan 2021, 16:15

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Holland Oates » 17 Jun 2021, 15:05

norwichchris wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 06:16
Holland Oates wrote:
17 Jun 2021, 05:02
Farouk was found by the Shadow King in his formative years. He was effectively groomed to be a manipulative predator even in the absence of the Shadow King. Poor Gabby.
Indeed although do believe that ultimately as they have both been intertwined for so long they are one in the same entity effectively. Poor Gabby and that letter was like "help I fear my friends are in trouble don't know what to do"

Artwork think was very poor also which is a shame
Yeah, I read through this one very quickly because of the downgrade in art. Didn't help that so much of the story revolved around the overly aggressive party-goer.

User avatar
Jindianajonz
Posts: 46
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 19:32

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Jindianajonz » 19 Jun 2021, 02:59

I thought this issue was fantastic, with tons of great beats and short vignettes that adroitly focus in individual characters. Every arc landed for me, from Karma confronting the a-hole artist, Warpath getting stuck in his suit, and the OG New Mutants group text. My only two complaints: The Artist was a bit too much of a stickman, even if Karma's verbal beatdown was effective; and Warlock was not included on the group text.

In particular, I love what Ayala is doing with Shadow King. He has become much more sympathetic than I thought possible, even if the specter of him remaining corrupted (either maliciously, or through unintentionally repeating the conditioned actions of his abuser) still hangs over him.

I'm also reevalutating Children of the Atom after seeing Ayala's work here. They are a very capable author, but I feel like their New Mutants has consistently hit the mark with its cast, while CotA has meandered a bit too much despite having very fleshed out characters. I think the big different are the New Mutants are known commodities that come with preexisting audience attachments, while CotA hasn't been around long enough for that same emotional pull. It leaves me hopeful that the CotA kids will be given time to develop into something just as wonderful, because they are all great characters.

User avatar
norwichchris
Posts: 873
Joined: 22 Dec 2019, 18:40

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by norwichchris » 21 Jun 2021, 05:33

I was actually very sympathetic to Warlock trying to fit in with new friends when there best friend gets married and starts spending less time with him also everyone else slowly cutting him out.

Find the story very dark and disturbing which it's supposed to be yet none of the Adults are the least bit suspicious of the Shadowking? Seem to not be concerned what is happening to the Children even if they are immortal know he can still cause them severe psychological harm.

If a Mutant kills another Mutant is that not a crime as it destroys the idea of Mutants all being in it together?

User avatar
Monolith
Posts: 6702
Joined: 20 Feb 2007, 17:29

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Monolith » 21 Jun 2021, 12:43

The law is "Kill No Man". There is no law about mutants killing mutants.

However, like Gabby was afraid of, she falls into a category of clones and doppelgangers that the Quiet Council has ruled not to resurrect (like Madelyne Pryor).

There's a legal case to be had if someone kills a mutant who won't be resurrected, is that the equivalent of killing a Man or not? The genesis of the law was to consider it wrong to kill someone who couldn't resurrect, so the doctrine of intentionalism would support punishing someone for killing Gabby. Then again, Gabby CAN be resurrected -- the Council had simply chosen not to resurrect mutants of her type.

If this turns into a courtroom drama of precedent over a three word law, I'm down for it.
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." -- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 4386
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by das_boot » 21 Jun 2021, 16:54

Also… on re-reading this… do we think that Rahne was mentally forced to taking Gabby to Shadow King?
X-Centric podcast: coming soon!

User avatar
tokenBG1009
Posts: 6587
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 20:34

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by tokenBG1009 » 23 Jun 2021, 15:09

norwichchris wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 05:33
If a Mutant kills another Mutant is that not a crime as it destroys the idea of Mutants all being in it together?
Monolith wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 12:43
The law is "Kill No Man". There is no law about mutants killing mutants.
On top of that, the law was LITERALLY made after Sinister tried to make a law saying you can't kill other mutants. The entire argument being "Well, mutants can't really die so why are we really worried about this?. Humans don't have this same protection."
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

User avatar
WorldWideWade
Posts: 1610
Joined: 04 Mar 2013, 18:49
Location: Texas

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by WorldWideWade » 23 Jun 2021, 18:03

Warlock is that friend that is purposely left out of a group text because they will flood the chat with too many comments.

I like the questions they are raising about the technicalities of resurrection in this title. Hopefully they address Karma's leg as well. I would just like confirmation that some mutants are embracing their disabilities and use it to tie into Cosmar's arc.
Current Pull List
Hickman's X-men, Runaways, Champions, Immortal Hulk, X-Factor, New Mutants, Hellions, Marauders

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 22377
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Blackcyclops » 24 Jun 2021, 11:30

tokenBG1009 wrote:
23 Jun 2021, 15:09
norwichchris wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 05:33
If a Mutant kills another Mutant is that not a crime as it destroys the idea of Mutants all being in it together?
Monolith wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 12:43
The law is "Kill No Man". There is no law about mutants killing mutants.
On top of that, the law was LITERALLY made after Sinister tried to make a law saying you can't kill other mutants. The entire argument being "Well, mutants can't really die so why are we really worried about this?. Humans don't have this same protection."
Lol
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

User avatar
norwichchris
Posts: 873
Joined: 22 Dec 2019, 18:40

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by norwichchris » 24 Jun 2021, 12:36

Karma's leg to me is a weird one she lost it fighting against Bastion so given the choice why should she not have it restored?

Cosmar's arc is more complicated she actively despises her appearance and wants to look like she did before but her mutation altered her DNA so that it would be impossible to remove without making her human which is unacceptable. Basically she can't accept this is who she is know rather than Karma who was forced to lose a leg.

The whole point of Krakoa was for Mutants to live together in peace away from humanity it's not going to work if they go round killing/abusing each other even if they can resurrect what about trauma?

User avatar
tokenBG1009
Posts: 6587
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 20:34

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by tokenBG1009 » 24 Jun 2021, 14:28

That doesn't change things. Is it wrong to kill another mutant? Most likely. You probably won't end up in exile for doing it unless you KEEP doing it, but remember "Krakoa had no prisons" so who knows what happens. We've never seen a murder of Krakoan on Krakoan violence that was actually discovered.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 4386
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by das_boot » 24 Jun 2021, 15:36

norwichchris wrote:
24 Jun 2021, 12:36
Karma's leg to me is a weird one she lost it fighting against Bastion so given the choice why should she not have it restored?
We’ve discussed this previously, but…

In-story: no real explanation given, but assuming that Xi’an would have her personality restored from her previous back up, it would be a back up that had gotten accustomed to her cybernetic leg— she’s never mentioned it as something she was particularly conscious about other than MAYBE when she first got it fitted, but like… we’ve never really seen her be angry or mad about it. Also, her crucible was literally to get her brother out of her head, nothing more.

We know from X-Force that QQ has a litany of demands regarding his appearance post resurrection— it would seem that Karma expressly stated she wanted to keep her prosthetic, would be the inference there.


Out of story: it would leave a VERY nasty taste in the mouths of any readers who have a physical difference/wear a prosthesis if a character who wore one saw it as something that was “wrong” with them. Furthermore, it’s ableist as hell. “You have a prosthetic leg? I bet you wish you had a real one”. It would also strengthen Cosmar’s argument that the X-Men don’t really care about her self-consciousness about her appearance following her mutation. Cosmar asked to go through Crucible due to her appearance. Karma asked to go through it because she and her brother are intrinsically linked due to the way in which Karma beat him in their first appearance and the developments in New Mutants: Dead Souls.

If Karma had been given her flesh and blood leg back, how does that then look to mutants like Cosmar and Anole who would like the option to “pass” for normal. It’s an argument that not only feeds into an ableist dialogue, but also one that could be extended to trans issues, LGBTQ issues etc.
X-Centric podcast: coming soon!

User avatar
tokenBG1009
Posts: 6587
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 20:34

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by tokenBG1009 » 24 Jun 2021, 15:49

I can't remember which is true anymore, isn't Cyclops's inability to control his power based on injury? I know Whedon made it a mental block, but it's clear they aren't "fixing" people when they're brought back.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

User avatar
EphemeristX
Posts: 6000
Joined: 09 Apr 2007, 16:50
Contact:

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by EphemeristX » 25 Jun 2021, 18:38

During Cyclops' first Krakoan resurrection, we see him able to control his optic blasts until his mind is restored, at which point he suddenly no longer can.
"You can leave your valuables here
with me," he smiled.

User avatar
Monolith
Posts: 6702
Joined: 20 Feb 2007, 17:29

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by Monolith » 25 Jun 2021, 19:06

It's not entirely clear that's what happened -- his eyes were sparking as Xavier handed him his visor. Cyclops does require energy to power his optic blasts. His brand new husk may simply not have existed long enough to build up the charge for a real optic blast.
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." -- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
norwichchris
Posts: 873
Joined: 22 Dec 2019, 18:40

Re: New Mutants #19

Post by norwichchris » 28 Jun 2021, 06:49

Its possible Xavier held back his Optic blast also.

I just wanted to see a conversation where Karma debated having her leg restored but decided against it, doubt very much the 5 have a collection of Karma clones with one leg missing it seems they modify the Husk how the resurrect Mutant requests.

For Cosmar and Anole it's not the same thing as there Mutations caused them to be the way they are. Altering this could change who they are as a person and give in to people's negative views of Mutants as well as cause them to be depowered which is unacceptable to everyone on Krakoa.

Post Reply