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X-Men #21

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Usernamenotimportant
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Usernamenotimportant » 10 Jun 2021, 16:01

Synch, Laura and Sunfire being selected it's pretty easy to explain: they are flavors of the month. Meaning, they just delivered great victories for Krakoa (the Vault mission and against the Knull thing). Plus, we know a lot of people that could be picked wouldn't run- Storm, Nightcrawler, everyone in X-force, etc.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Blackcyclops » 10 Jun 2021, 16:02

*Black people descended from the slaves that came across with the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade*

Let’s bot sell Bishop short…it wasn’t until later that we even learned he’s related to the Aboriginal people of Australia. And given he was raised in a hellish prison camp in America not actually in Australia (like Manifold), he’s pretty Black American.
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manuel_mc89
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by manuel_mc89 » 10 Jun 2021, 17:35

And there is no reason why Bishop can't be of mixed heritage, with aboriginal and African descendant heritage, which is also the case with Monet. Both characters read black/African descendant to me.
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by manuel_mc89 » 10 Jun 2021, 18:02

Guys, I don't know how to say this, but looking at Remy kiss Rogue in the cheek after being chosen as a member of the X-Men, I really love that pair, I just really love that pair and I guess that now they are my favorite comics couple, and I love how supportive Remy is of his wife.
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Oldmanlogan79 » 10 Jun 2021, 19:57

Oh Manuel! You are a romántico, chico! (BTW me too)
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tokenBG1009
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by tokenBG1009 » 10 Jun 2021, 23:11

manuel_mc89 wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 18:02
Guys, I don't know how to say this, but looking at Remy kiss Rogue in the cheek after being chosen as a member of the X-Men, I really love that pair, I just really love that pair and I guess that now they are my favorite comics couple, and I love how supportive Remy is of his wife.
It was an incredibly touching scene. Rogue/Remy have had their detractors over the years, and I agreed with them to an extent, but they've been the best couple in the comics for a LONG time. I'll be a Emma/Scott lover til the day I die, but Romy > EmSco all day every day.
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Holland Oates
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Holland Oates » 11 Jun 2021, 01:19

Blackcyclops wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 16:02
*Black people descended from the slaves that came across with the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade*

Let’s bot sell Bishop short…it wasn’t until later that we even learned he’s related to the Aboriginal people of Australia. And given he was raised in a hellish prison camp in America not actually in Australia (like Manifold), he’s pretty Black American.
Any way you want to look at it, they had to go to the far flung future to find a black male to become an x-man. And his interview for the spot was telling everyone that there was a traitor on the team. The next time I saw a black male mutant, it was Synch. It made me very happy. But he didn't matriculate on to the x-team. Because there are so few, they count more imo.

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Magnus
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Magnus » 11 Jun 2021, 01:47

I agree this issue was pretty meh for me. Four artists, woof. None of them were bad, but I agree it made things feel disjointed - especially between the first (Namor) segment and the second segment. The art styles really makes the first part feel foreboding and the second part more bright and cheerful.

Also, this is a pretty commonly violated pet peeve of mine, but shout out to that cover that looks like a random "just draw some important Krakoa era mutants" drawing Yu probably did a year or two ago, with no connection to the contents inside. Cable and Wolverine aren't in this issue and Apocalypse isn't even on Krakoa anymore.

The Namor scene was good, but the only other two big parts - the new X-Men selection, and the Omegas walking off at the end - had been spoiled by previews, which really saps the issue of much interest. There's a couple of splash pages but there's not really any 'party' moments here - mostly just Emma, Cyclops and Jean orating. (Ok, Cyclops' talk to Feige isn't a wide oration, but it's a speech.)

The X-Men election in particular was pretty disappointing - there could've been so much more done with this, and so many interesting angles, but instead it basically happens off-panel and in the span of a couple pages.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Jun 2021, 02:06

That’s not the cover I got, thankfully…
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Cable » 11 Jun 2021, 03:38

It is nice that in the final issue of X-Men they finally introduce the X-Men.
'
Let's talk about the roster! Oh wait we already did weeks ago (I hate comics sometimes...)

I agree with das_boot though: I love this line-up but the manner of selecting them seems stupid (I don't mean the idea but rather that the idea would result in this). I am actually not confident that Hickman will bring it up at all later. He frequently presents things as he wants them to be and just expects you to accept it. But maybe I will be pleasantly surprised by a deep delving into these character's motivations and aspirations in the next volume.

I hope they drop that planet on Namor's head.

The gala overall has been fine but the celebrity cameos are going to age badly. It is also kind of funny how big of a controversy some of the outfits were for how little they really matter. Iceman looks like that?! Yeah for like two panels in the background and then you can forget it ever happened. In some ways this event was actually more fun before it started when we were getting those fabulous reveals.
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X-titles: Excalibur #22 by Tini Howard (3) and Marcus To (3)
Non-X titles: Extreme Carnage--Scream by Clay Chapman (1) and Chris Mooneyham (1)

In parentheses number of times creator has had best comic this year

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Re: X-Men #21

Post by ultimatekey » 11 Jun 2021, 11:10

To some ( or most) people, Synch, Prodigy, and Bedlam do not count because they were not part of the official X-Men roster but they were part of the junior teams or the "spin-off" teams.

After Bishop, who would be considered the "second" black person to join the X-Men team?

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Re: X-Men #21

Post by das_boot » 11 Jun 2021, 11:24

I mean I’m kind of okay with Bobby’s outfit. The inspiration for this event is the Met Gala, which derives its inspiration from the New York Ball scene which is a part of gay culture— you “walk” categories based on a theme (so, “category is: Royalty”— watch Pose or Drag Race or Paris is Burning for a better idea of what it means). Bobby’s understood the assignment and, much like when the theme for the Met Gala was “Camp”, he’s embracing the theme of the Gala. That’s literally it. It’s a gay culture reference that not everyone is going to understand unless they do their research 🤷‍♂️
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Cable » 11 Jun 2021, 12:15

das_boot wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 11:24
I mean I’m kind of okay with Bobby’s outfit. The inspiration for this event is the Met Gala, which derives its inspiration from the New York Ball scene which is a part of gay culture— you “walk” categories based on a theme (so, “category is: Royalty”— watch Pose or Drag Race or Paris is Burning for a better idea of what it means). Bobby’s understood the assignment and, much like when the theme for the Met Gala was “Camp”, he’s embracing the theme of the Gala. That’s literally it. It’s a gay culture reference that not everyone is going to understand unless they do their research 🤷‍♂️
I'm not talking about the reactions of anyone here. I am talking about if you went on the Facebook comments section (yes I know that was my first mistake) and all the dudebros are crying like these were going to be the uniforms the X-Men wore for the rest of their lives.
Best Comics of Week 28

X-titles: Excalibur #22 by Tini Howard (3) and Marcus To (3)
Non-X titles: Extreme Carnage--Scream by Clay Chapman (1) and Chris Mooneyham (1)

In parentheses number of times creator has had best comic this year

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Re: X-Men #21

Post by tokenBG1009 » 11 Jun 2021, 12:48

I get the argument y’all are having, but I don’t think a black person on the planet would say “Storm isn’t the first black person on the X-Men” and try to argue it away because she’s closely associated with Africa. No black person is going to go “Well she doesn’t represent me because she’s from Africa.”

Storm is the first black member and Bishop is the second. Make arguments that there should be more, but don’t disregard people because of where they’re from. Believe me when I say neither one of them would get any mercy from a racist twat just because “Well, technically I’m of Aboriginal descent.”
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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by norwichchris » 11 Jun 2021, 13:05

I agree that the excitement of the Gala and who will be the new X-Men has been severely sapped when the issue comes around, why do they bother with the previews exactly is it so they can test out how readers react to the comics? Refuse to read them from now on as want to be surprised about what happens not already now beforehand or can easily guess.

Interesting enough there are a few African-American villains who appeared first such as Frenzy in X-Factor and later appeared as an Acolyte in the X-men comics and Hairbag from the Nasty-Boys.

Don't really feel the lineup represents Krakoa but more they want to appease the nations of the world and look as good as possible to them for political points. None of the X-men former enemies have been chosen but could possibly want to join?

Jean's uniform thought was the best and hope she keeps it for the future.

I Was under the impression most of the costumes were for the party only, refuse to believe either Magneto or Xavier would to spend all day dressed up like that!

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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Jun 2021, 13:40

@token: Agreed

So anyway…Hickman is leaving Duggan with quite a lineup. Power-wise they’re one of the stronger lineups. You have an omega in Jean. A Wolverine, always great. Rogue is a brawler but also with her ability to take and use others powers she’s versatile. Polaris is almost as strong as Magneto so she’s a powerhouse. Cyclops and Sunfire are slouches and then you have Synch who is basically everybody rolled into one.

You have experience: Cyclops and Jean are OGs. Polaris joined them pretty early and while her career was spotty back then, she’s basically been consistently associated with superhero teams since the 90s. Sunfire been around almost as long as Polaris and has experience battling threats in Japan, assisting Alpha Flight and was an Avenger. Wolverine has basically been in fights since she debuted. Synch is the least experienced as an X-Man BUT he spent a lifetime in the Vault.

And then you have a range of personalities for some interesting dynamics. This isn’t the most “X-Men as family” team but it has the vibe of the Extinction or Astonishing teams: very official superhero team.

I look forward to what Duggan is going to so next.
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by tokenBG1009 » 11 Jun 2021, 14:35

It's almost weird that Synch and Rogue are on the team together as they have somewhat similar powersets, but I suppose they're different enough that it isn't really a problem.

I really am looking forward to the relaunch because Duggan has been one of the quieter stars at Marvel when it comes to writing. He's not as big a name as Ewing, Cates, or Aaron, but he's consistently turned in great work with fantastic characters.
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Holland Oates
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Holland Oates » 11 Jun 2021, 14:55

tokenBG1009 wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 14:35
It's almost weird that Synch and Rogue are on the team together as they have somewhat similar powersets, but I suppose they're different enough that it isn't really a problem.

I really am looking forward to the relaunch because Duggan has been one of the quieter stars at Marvel when it comes to writing. He's not as big a name as Ewing, Cates, or Aaron, but he's consistently turned in great work with fantastic characters.

It makes sense strategically in a way. They always have a backup. I'm hoping that they will start using their powers in tandem more, as shown in the New Mutants book. They called it mutant technology.

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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Holland Oates » 11 Jun 2021, 14:59

ultimatekey wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 11:10
To some ( or most) people, Synch, Prodigy, and Bedlam do not count because they were not part of the official X-Men roster but they were part of the junior teams or the "spin-off" teams.

After Bishop, who would be considered the "second" black person to join the X-Men team?
Maggot? if we're talking about males. :shrugs:

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Jun 2021, 15:28

Holland Oates wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 14:55
tokenBG1009 wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 14:35
It's almost weird that Synch and Rogue are on the team together as they have somewhat similar powersets, but I suppose they're different enough that it isn't really a problem.

I really am looking forward to the relaunch because Duggan has been one of the quieter stars at Marvel when it comes to writing. He's not as big a name as Ewing, Cates, or Aaron, but he's consistently turned in great work with fantastic characters.

It makes sense strategically in a way. They always have a backup. I'm hoping that they will start using their powers in tandem more, as shown in the New Mutants book. They called it mutant technology.
And in SWORD and Excalibur…I think X-Factor too.
Last edited by Blackcyclops on 11 Jun 2021, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.
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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by norwichchris » 11 Jun 2021, 15:32

I Wonder though if Rogue absorbed a mutants powers would Synch be able to copy it as well?

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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Monolith » 11 Jun 2021, 16:14

Bad stuff happened when Rogue, Mimic, and Weapon Omega tried to copy off each other in X-Men: Legacy, but every situation is different, I guess.
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by ultimatekey » 11 Jun 2021, 18:28

Holland Oates wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 14:59
ultimatekey wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 11:10
To some ( or most) people, Synch, Prodigy, and Bedlam do not count because they were not part of the official X-Men roster but they were part of the junior teams or the "spin-off" teams.

After Bishop, who would be considered the "second" black person to join the X-Men team?
Maggot? if we're talking about males. :shrugs:
Maggot is South African, not African-American.

Also, fun fact: Maggot was originally supposed to be Australian but the creative team decided to change his nationality/origin at the last minute and made him South African. That was shown in his first and second appearance in Generation X.

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tokenBG1009
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by tokenBG1009 » 11 Jun 2021, 21:27

ultimatekey wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 18:28
Holland Oates wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 14:59
ultimatekey wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 11:10
To some ( or most) people, Synch, Prodigy, and Bedlam do not count because they were not part of the official X-Men roster but they were part of the junior teams or the "spin-off" teams.

After Bishop, who would be considered the "second" black person to join the X-Men team?
Maggot? if we're talking about males. :shrugs:
Maggot is South African, not African-American.

Also, fun fact: Maggot was originally supposed to be Australian but the creative team decided to change his nationality/origin at the last minute and made him South African. That was shown in his first and second appearance in Generation X.
Just curious, why are you so hung up on this weirdly narrow view of black characters? Maggot is as black as Luke Cage or Bill Foster. Trust me when I say this, almost no black person is going to discount them because they aren't American.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #21

Post by Blackcyclops » 11 Jun 2021, 21:47

I mean given the lack of representation over the years, I agree with token. Of course realistically there is alot of culturally difference among people who would identify in each group.

Ignoring the complexity of how they would self-identify, Storm was born in America, which (I’m not sure ultimate is American, so he might not know this) makes her an American citizen regardless of where she spent her formative years.

Similarly, while of mixed heritage, Bishop spent his formative years either in a concentration camp or a cop in a future American city. If the camp he was born in was in the USA (and the USA’s govt functioned anyway close to it does no) and Bishop had a Black American parent, he would also be considered Black American
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