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X-Force #34

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Monolith
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X-Force #34

Post by Monolith » 23 Nov 2022, 19:30

Beast is deliberately enabling Sage's alcoholism in order to keep her out of his hair.

He also built a prison moon.

This black site is run by Maverick and the Mercs, holding prisoners without X-Force or the Quiet Council's knowledge.

Beast is experimenting on the prisoners using Krakoan biotech, because morality doesn't exist any more.
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." -- Oscar Wilde

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EphemeristX
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by EphemeristX » 23 Nov 2022, 19:55

Holy shit, this is sliding into some dark territory super fast. At least Sage's drinking isn't being written off as a joke, as a few folks worried about.
I really wanna blow your mind
but I haven't got the time.

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das_boot
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by das_boot » 23 Nov 2022, 19:58

EphemeristX wrote:
23 Nov 2022, 19:55
Holy shit, this is sliding into some dark territory super fast. At least Sage's drinking isn't being written off as a joke, as a few folks worried about.
I’m actually even more appalled. This is literally screaming “let’s fuck around with the theme of consent to make a sub-par comic edgy” and it’s not a vibe I enjoy.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by Blackcyclops » 23 Nov 2022, 20:28

I guess Duggan read the script for this and was like “Nah too much” lol
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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Milkshake08
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by Milkshake08 » 23 Nov 2022, 22:34

This title shouldn't be so boring for how much totally insane s*** goes on every issue.

At this point, Beast is as bad as Sinister, right? I mean, Sinister is BAD, probably the worst of the X-Villains (other than Shadow King). And Beast is basically right there with him, but without the same self awareness that what he does is straight up evil.

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EphemeristX
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by EphemeristX » 23 Nov 2022, 23:50

das_boot wrote:
23 Nov 2022, 19:58
EphemeristX wrote:
23 Nov 2022, 19:55
Holy shit, this is sliding into some dark territory super fast. At least Sage's drinking isn't being written off as a joke, as a few folks worried about.
I’m actually even more appalled. This is literally screaming “let’s fuck around with the theme of consent to make a sub-par comic edgy” and it’s not a vibe I enjoy.
Not to defend the comic, but I do think it's being presented as a negative. I don't think the writer is intending for readers to think Beast is badass or some kind of anti-hero.
I really wanna blow your mind
but I haven't got the time.

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das_boot
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by das_boot » 24 Nov 2022, 06:36

EphemeristX wrote:
23 Nov 2022, 23:50
das_boot wrote:
23 Nov 2022, 19:58
EphemeristX wrote:
23 Nov 2022, 19:55
Holy shit, this is sliding into some dark territory super fast. At least Sage's drinking isn't being written off as a joke, as a few folks worried about.
I’m actually even more appalled. This is literally screaming “let’s fuck around with the theme of consent to make a sub-par comic edgy” and it’s not a vibe I enjoy.
Not to defend the comic, but I do think it's being presented as a negative. I don't think the writer is intending for readers to think Beast is badass or some kind of anti-hero.
You’re reading the wrong Reddit threads… after the issue of Wolverine I got in to sooooo many arguments where I had to explain that Beast is removing people’s agency and how it’s lazy writing and I got a lot of “he’s protecting Krakoa by any means necessary, why are you pressed?”
Sinister’s Lab now secretly altering other player’s posts in the RPG section

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EphemeristX
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by EphemeristX » 24 Nov 2022, 16:50

Reddit is a cesspool of the shittiest of shit takes. I'm not surprised. There's folks there that will still argue that Tyler Durden is a heroic figure. There's someone butthurt about gay stuff in X-Books about every three hours.
I really wanna blow your mind
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norwichchris
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by norwichchris » 24 Nov 2022, 17:49

Well Beast is I guess protecting Krakoa by any means necessary as he was ordered to do by the Quite Council but it does seem to me he is becoming more and more sadistic and more like AOA Dark Beast with no actual concept what he is doing is evil or wrong. In my view the Quite Council are like I don't want to know, do what you like so long as there is no blow-back on them attitude. I can see this backfiring on them hopefully in the future and Beast will be severely dealt.

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EphemeristX
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by EphemeristX » 24 Nov 2022, 18:19

Agreed. This seems like convenient ignorance on the part of the Council.
I really wanna blow your mind
but I haven't got the time.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by Blackcyclops » 24 Nov 2022, 19:16

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say NC and Stormdoesn’t know but not on purpose.

Xavier? well…
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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WorldWideWade
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by WorldWideWade » 25 Nov 2022, 04:10

The circle is complete and 616 Beast is straight up Dark Beast now. One of my favorite Xmen is now an irredeemable A-hole. I may need to change my profile pic because I cannot defend any of this.
Books to be excited for:
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norwichchris
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by norwichchris » 25 Nov 2022, 09:34

WorldWideWade wrote:
25 Nov 2022, 04:10
The circle is complete and 616 Beast is straight up Dark Beast now. One of my favorite Xmen is now an irredeemable A-hole. I may need to change my profile pic because I cannot defend any of this.
I have a few theories over this,

option 1 - most likely: Sinister spliced Beast DNA with his own to make him more like himself and thus controllable for some unknown reason.

option 2 - Dark Beast somehow spliced his mind into Beast when he was first resurrected and is slowly taking over which explains his slide into sadism.

We don't actually know when the X-men were first killed then resurrected so it was likely during the six month gap no one will dare revisit

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tokenBG1009
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by tokenBG1009 » 25 Nov 2022, 17:32

There it is.

I'm just going to say, if they try and 'fix' Beast by saying "No! It was Dark Beast all along!" or "He was being controlled by an outside source." It will be one of the worst decisions Marvel has allowed in a book since One More Day. This is Hank. This has been Hank. Has he gotten worse? Yes. He went from "I can do this because I know better than you" to "I am without fault because I know better than you." This isn't recent even discounting the Krakoan era. It's no different than Cyclops' fall from grace in the time between the Post-The Twelve to IvX. It was a steady progression of the character taking into account the history of the character.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by Blackcyclops » 25 Nov 2022, 18:14

One could almost argue that the comical and bouncy Beast that everyone knows from the cartoon and on the Avengers was the departure from his established continuity. I mean I could be misremembering but prior to being on the Avengers, Beast wasn’t a jokey brain. He was actually very serious and was the type of guy to experiment on himself.

I think the cartoon’s popularity led to the change in perception of his character (even on X-Men Blue, at first he wasn’t the same as his cartoon depiction).
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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tokenBG1009
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by tokenBG1009 » 25 Nov 2022, 19:05

His origin story is partially based on him experimenting on himself. I also feel like one does not start banging Abigail Brand without being equally as terrible a person.


...last bit is mostly a joke. They're both bad people though.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

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norwichchris
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by norwichchris » 25 Nov 2022, 19:57

Honestly I hated how they treated Cyclops as well as Xavier betraying him over his younger brother being killed. Who know if he had just restored after he had rescued the X-Men from Krakoa then it might have been alright? maybe Xavier couldn't un-erase them so he thought it best to leave it to spare him further pain. Basically I feel that if you want to compare the two then well Cyclops was far more justified to act the way he did than Beast ever will be given what he discovered about Xavier and how it made him feel.

I will admit its similar but nothing really bad has happened to Hank to my knowledge to make him go down such a dark path but I think his will be a far worse and with more deadly consequences for the future.

I read the comics from the 90s onwards and obviously watched the cartoon series so my opinion of Beast is mostly based of these. Having said that I do remember in the comics Hank preparing to do almost anything to cure the Legacy Virus so will admit you may have a point. I just don't see anything severely negative happen to him to make him snap like this, he's too sadistic like they are trying to say something. Also really want Dark Beast to return in the future really liked the character...

Well in one more day we did get a really good Spiderman Film out of it "No Way Home" which was based of this comic loosely...

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tokenBG1009
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by tokenBG1009 » 25 Nov 2022, 20:11

Oh, I forgot about Xavier too. They didn't pivot Xavier into being an asshole. Dude has been terrible from the word go.

Nothing bad needed to happen to Hank for him to be this way. He has simply been allowed to continue to believe that he's in the right regarding all of his decisions and no one truly challenges him. Now they've given him this task of "doing what needs to be done" and it led down a predictably dark path.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

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Milkshake08
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by Milkshake08 » 25 Nov 2022, 23:02

Yeah whenever I think "Man, Xavier's become a real douche" I can look back on the Dark Phoenix Saga and also when he tried to hustle in on Storm's leadership during the Romita Jr years and....he's always been a know-it-all jerk. I don't think Claremont wanted the audience to like him much - probably didn't like him much himself considering he wrote him out twice.

I honestly don't have much grasp on Beast pre him joining the Avengers. I couldn't get into the early issues of X-Men, so I just know him from his guest appearances in the late 70's/early 80's, then X-Factor on. He wasn't too jokey in X-Factor, really, but he did spend a lot of that time dumbed down or angsty over Trish Tilby. It really is his animated appearances that have made him so beloved.

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Re: X-Force #34

Post by WorldWideWade » 25 Nov 2022, 23:15

tokenBG1009 wrote:
25 Nov 2022, 17:32
There it is.

I'm just going to say, if they try and 'fix' Beast by saying "No! It was Dark Beast all along!" or "He was being controlled by an outside source." It will be one of the worst decisions Marvel has allowed in a book since One More Day. This is Hank. This has been Hank. Has he gotten worse? Yes. He went from "I can do this because I know better than you" to "I am without fault because I know better than you." This isn't recent even discounting the Krakoan era. It's no different than Cyclops' fall from grace in the time between the Post-The Twelve to IvX. It was a steady progression of the character taking into account the history of the character.
I absolutely agree that this is real Hank. I was saying that 616 Beast has fully descended into the Dark Beast like personality allowed to foster in AoA reality. They are basically the same character and I see why they killed off Dark Beast in the Rosenberg run. The two characters are completely redundant. I actually don't want him to be redeemed and think that him and Sinister may soon team up in Sins of Sinister since their goals are starting to align in many ways.
Books to be excited for:
The X-cellent, Immortal X-men, X-men Red, Knights of X, X-men XCII, She-Hulk

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tokenBG1009
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by tokenBG1009 » 26 Nov 2022, 00:52

That was 100% towards NWC. Who, to be clear, I'm not trying to attack. I just know he tends to come in with theories of why Hank is acting the way he is.
"Sometimes I do feel like I'm a failure. Like there's no hope for me. But even so, I'm not gonna give up. Ever!" -Izuku Midoriya

ultimatekey
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by ultimatekey » 26 Nov 2022, 09:21

I don't know much about Sage's backstory.......but what "terrible" things was she doing in Afghanistan?

Is she herself Afghani?

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das_boot
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by das_boot » 26 Nov 2022, 11:16

ultimatekey wrote:
26 Nov 2022, 09:21
I don't know much about Sage's backstory.......but what "terrible" things was she doing in Afghanistan?

Is she herself Afghani?
In X-Treme X-Men (Claremont volume 1), it’s revealed that Sage has been a spy for Xavier since she found him in the Afghan mountains (I believe just after the incident with Lucifer which cost him his legs?). In those few panels she was definitely drawn to look as though she was either military or part of a mercenary cell. If we’re going on the sliding time scale for her to be recruited around the time of the O5, I believe that would put her in Afghanistan around the time of the Russian invasion (I might be wrong), which means she could have either been taking part in guerilla warfare AGAINST Afghanistan on behalf of Russia, or vice versa.

I don’t recall it ever being outright stated what her ethnicity is. She was drawn as borderline albino in her earliest appearances in X-Treme but whether that was just leaning in to a goth aesthetic I’m not sure. She’s always been drawn to be caucasian-looking, but it could just be that she’s incredibly fair skinned.
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MichaelWagner
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by MichaelWagner » 26 Nov 2022, 20:37

ultimatekey wrote:
26 Nov 2022, 09:21
I don't know much about Sage's backstory.......but what "terrible" things was she doing in Afghanistan?

Is she herself Afghani?
Believe she is Iranian. But I don’t know if that’s on page or from Cerebro podcast.

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Magnus
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Re: X-Force #34

Post by Magnus » 27 Nov 2022, 17:57

X-Treme #9 has Lifeguard get sucked into Sage's mind, and the first vision she sees is a war-torn "Balkan village" with a child Sage, which heavily implies she's European.

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