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Inferno #4

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EphemeristX
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by EphemeristX » 08 Jan 2022, 03:47

There's some nuance there, though. Emma already joined a mutant nation once only to be there when 10 million people died all around her including all of her children. And then, when she joined Xavier, she lost almost all of her children once again. Of everyone who eventually joined the council, she was the one who'd been burned the hardest and who'd suffered the most trauma.

As far as contributions to the council, the Hellfire Trading Company are absolutely vital to the recognition of Krakoa as an independant nation. Without those trade deals, the blackmarket dealings for other places, and the mutant navy patrolling the waters, they would have never been able to broker any sort of political deals.

As far as who pulled the trigger, it's not just a matter of who (though the idea that we'd hold Xavier to the same standard as Raven is strange anyway), but why. Mystique and Destiny hold a vendetta going back decades and Moira used all of her power to keep Raven's wife from her. They weren't just going to turn her human; they did it so that they could kill her and not erase everything. It was Doug's decision to keep her alive and human; a decision which was both merciful and pragmatic.
Last edited by EphemeristX on 08 Jan 2022, 03:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 08 Jan 2022, 03:55

This desire to almost bring down any celebration of Emma is funny…
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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das_boot
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by das_boot » 08 Jan 2022, 14:46

Also I have no idea what you’re alluding to with the “bodily autonomy” comment other than as a balance to that what on earth is Moira doing every time she resets a timeline?
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Lavettye
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by Lavettye » 09 Jan 2022, 12:01

Holland Oates wrote:
06 Jan 2022, 03:25
Did any of you consider that Moira could change her mind? If she found out that Omega Sentinel and Nimrod were, say, suddenly interested in eradicating mutants and humans maybe that would have altered the calculus of depowering mutantkind.
She already found out. Moira has known since the end of Life VI that A.I. was becoming the dominant life-form eradicating both mutants and humans. It was her big "aha" moment 1000 years in the future during her conversation with the Librarian.
Her actions in Lifes VII to IX are the result of her having changed her mind, shifting focus from winning over humanity to prevent A.I. from being created (VII) or quickly dominating humans (VII & IX) to push mutantkind becoming the dominant species and to unite them for the upcoming fight against A.I.
Spectral Knight wrote:
06 Jan 2022, 17:34
Holland Oates wrote:
06 Jan 2022, 15:41
Again, Krakoa would not have existed without Moira. She had Kevin for a reason.
Aren't these two separate points? Krakoa existed as a mutant nation in Life IX (and this was the one with the chimeras already in play), but Kevin was specific to Life X.
Blackcyclops wrote:
06 Jan 2022, 17:43
Was it specifically Krakoa though or just a mutant nation?
Spectral is right. Rasputin and Cardinal traveled through Krakoan gates to Asteroid K/Krakoa.... and one of the eight remaining mutants in the sol system was that Krakoa/Cypher hybrid.
Yet, according to the timeline chart, Moira IX woke up Apocalypse when she was 18, and Apocalypse killed Xavier and Magneto when she was 19/21 years old... therefore, Life IX had a Krakoa without Charles and Magneto.

It may not have been the exact same Krakoa. For instance, it may not have had a ressurection cyle without Proteus' reality warping or Xavier as the main telepath to attach a person's Cerebro recording to their regrown body, but it definitely had an Arrako connection (Apocalypse and Moira reunited with the Horsemen), and it had Krakoan gates giving them access to Mars (Sinister's breeding pens) and a Shi'Ar outpost. (which in Life IX housed the majority of Earth's remaining mutants)
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Jan 2022, 15:04

Thanks for further clarifying…I figured SK knew it better than I since it’s so fresh for him.
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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Spectral Knight
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by Spectral Knight » 10 Jan 2022, 20:46

Blackcyclops wrote:
09 Jan 2022, 15:04
Thanks for further clarifying…I figured SK knew it better than I since it’s so fresh for him.
It's been over a year since I read it!

Although currently working my way through a much older arc... got the Mutant Genesis trade for Chrimbo. Some interesting Moira issues in it, what with the Proteus ressurection, and the "schism". I wonder if, with the benefit of the revelation, the schism will have new layers to it by the time I get to those issues.

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Re: Inferno #4

Post by ultimatekey » 12 Jan 2022, 03:24

I really like how Doug came in a saved the day and they drew him to be a handsome man.

He had his wife, best friend, and environment on his side........

He really came a long way ever since he got shot and died and became a "chew toy" and a depressed "junkie" (Daredevil stories) after his resurrection.

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medium13
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by medium13 » 14 Jan 2022, 23:31

I delayed posting on this a while, but have read and re-read the issue a few times. I liked it well enough and I think it's a satisfactory solution and I'm overjoyed that the world of X will maintain it's current status quo. It still feels fresh for the most part and has the air of grandiosity. I too was just in love with Doug's performance in the end game and he's really stepped into a crucial position moving forward. I'm curious how wide his secret has been exposed, if at all. Meaning, does the Krakoa populace know that Doug and Warlock have eyes and ears all over ? Does it matter now that Moira is gone?

The resolution for Moira left me unsettled. I would like to explore this new facet of her character and I especially love to read old issues with her in them now to see if there are any gigantic conflicts and because her tone seems so much more understandable now. This, naturally, doesn't seem like a complete ending for her given if we parallel her situation to Storms, but I suppose I will have to wait.

I found this discussion around Emma very interesting and to be honest, I don't have extremely strong feelings to Emma's behavior. She choose a pragmatic approach and brought a transparency previously unforeseen to the Quiet Council, which I certainly don't have a problem with. In a way, she's taking her power back and asserting her authority as a key player in the future of mutantkind. Truthfully, I think this would have been more interesting with Jean in the same position as Xavier's previous confidant, a guiding force of morality on Krakoa, a sometimes arrogant and out-of-touch character. But mostly, because it would put her in a position of having to behave contrary to Xavier and that's something we don't get to see often.

Unresolved threads and plot points are abundant but I can overlook them when I look at the totality of the story. I don't blame Charles and I hope this won't bear a permanent scar on his character the way previous decisions have. It really shouldn't. I also feel like Omega Sentinel trailed off as such a great character in this plot. She started off so strong and then kind of devolved into a token Nimrod/indestructible machine enemy.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Jan 2022, 00:40

A question: what are the unresolved plot points and threads?
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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medium13
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by medium13 » 15 Jan 2022, 04:51

Blackcyclops wrote:
15 Jan 2022, 00:40
A question: what are the unresolved plot points and threads?
By my count
1) Colossus
2) What was in the box Mystique gave Emma for her vote?
3) Where did Emma get her gift for Mystique and Destiny ?
4) How close is Orchis to the discovery that mutants are immortal?
5) What was Beast up to in Doug’s flashbacks?

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Jan 2022, 04:53

I’m sorry if that came across snotty, I meant it sincerely. Since zi felt the pertinent ones were addressed, left open for the various new titles or really ones about the pre-HoX time that we’ve been told over and over just won’t be addressed.
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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medium13
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by medium13 » 15 Jan 2022, 04:56

I didn’t find it snotty at all, BC. No worries. I know you.
I have trouble calling them unresolved because some will obviously be picked up later but … I want to know. Except Collosus. I think that was a wasted reveal because X-Force is abysmal.

Which ones do we know won’t be addressed?

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das_boot
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by das_boot » 15 Jan 2022, 13:07

I thought the box was the neutraliser?

As for how close Orchis are to discovering mutant immortality
Spoiler: show
it’s being touched upon in X-Men
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elixir86
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by elixir86 » 15 Jan 2022, 13:38

Emma got the neutraliser in Marauders 10

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Jan 2022, 13:50

medium13 wrote:
15 Jan 2022, 04:51
Blackcyclops wrote:
15 Jan 2022, 00:40
A question: what are the unresolved plot points and threads?
By my count
1) Colossus
2) What was in the box Mystique gave Emma for her vote?
3) Where did Emma get her gift for Mystique and Destiny ?
4) How close is Orchis to the discovery that mutants are immortal?
5) What was Beast up to in Doug’s flashbacks?
1) I don’t read X-Force and I think that was Hickman doing a Hickman thing. I don’t think there’s something deeper to it then what he said.
2) now I wasn’t expecting you to pick out mystery boxes from this series (I thought you meant stuff from the HoX/PoX story) but this one prolly will be in Immortal X-Men.
3) Marauders #10
4) See X-Men like das boots said
5) You mean when they made drugs? I thought we already discussed that in the previous issue threads?
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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medium13
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by medium13 » 15 Jan 2022, 16:16

Oops. I don’t remember Marauders #10. I know these aren’t really plot holes or danglers in the real sense and that they will be ongoing. With Colossus it feels like why bother close an issue with this to not have it impact the story at all? Also, why is this an “Inferno” event? We already had one. Minor gripes for a story I really enjoyed.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Inferno #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Jan 2022, 16:35

Hickman said in an interview he liked using older names…of course you could also talk about the fact that it did appear that different parties were going to burn it all down at one point or another in the story (ie Inferno).
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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