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New Mutant #20

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Blackcyclops
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New Mutant #20

Post by Blackcyclops » 21 Jul 2021, 15:45

This issue was just okay…not bad but not as good as the last few ones.
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Gremlin
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Gremlin » 21 Jul 2021, 16:03

Yeah there was a bit of treading water. The kids leaping to the defense of Scout is nice and the verbal beatdown of Daken was warranted, but the plot could have moved a little more. I'm still not entirely sure that their ultimate plan is and how they intend to get away with it. This is one of those times when telling an adult would be easier and better in the long run,

Also, Rahne's argument with Karma also felt a little forced. I know she is going through things but snapping at the one close friend who has intimate knowledge of the Shadow King felt out of character.

I am glad they are addressing the issues of resurrection here, both with ones they cannot do like Tier, and the clones who are questionable.

I am pleased Moonstar and Karma seem to be on the Rahne issue though. I feel it'll all come to a head with the Shadow King very soon.
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manuel_mc89
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by manuel_mc89 » 21 Jul 2021, 16:04

I enjoyed watching a country or a nation being protective of their own mutants citizens, not due to nefarious/political/military reasons, but because its still their child, so that was nice.

I also really liked the vignettes of how awesome Gabby is, because she is.

It bothers me that Laura still doesnt show up worried about her sister, even after that letter.

And i feel like im the only one, but i dislike Anole's treatment during this whole era. We have not seen him mourn his best friend death and he seems to have regressed, both in terms of character and in age, to a younger person. I think that Vita Ayala is an amazing writer, and this run is one of the top tier ones, given how it balances so many plots and characters, but i cant help but feeling like Anole's role was meant to be for someone else, perhaps one of Vita's creations, and his inclusion was mandated by editorial, considering he is quite popular, because it just doens't feel like Anole to me.
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das_boot
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by das_boot » 21 Jul 2021, 18:27

Yeah, Anole’s role… I’m not sure it was meant to be Anole either.

ANYWAY.

I liked this issue but I fully get the critiques that it was slower. However, seeing Warpath being the compassionate voice here was really lovely to see, and I DO enjoy the angry kids subplot.

Also, how can you NOT get Rahne’s fight with Karma? Karma’s just been killed to have her brother resurrected and taken out of her mind— whereas Rahne cannot get Tier back (although Rahne should really wind that in a little, given her abandonment of Tier initially but whatever).
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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Blackcyclops » 21 Jul 2021, 19:03

Laura didn’t show up, in my mind, not because she doesn’t care (Daken even brings up Laura) but it’s done to focus on Daken and throw jabs at him. Since he’s been the one to most interact in this book, it was the writer continuing to work on the character who’s had a role in the book. So I liked the scene alot and it was kinda painful for Daken too.
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Gremlin
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Gremlin » 21 Jul 2021, 19:18

I get Rahne’s anger of Tier not coming back, however this issue goes as far back as X-Factor. When Strong Guy became king of hell he said outright that supernatural forces wouldn’t let him bring Tier back. Now with the resurrection 5 also unable to bring him back you would have thought Rahne would see a pattern. I understand her anger but lashing out at Karma the way she did get undeserved.
Also, Karma is getting some flack here but she didn’t die and come back for herself. She died to allow Tran to live again, that’s a pretty big deal for her given their history.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Blackcyclops » 21 Jul 2021, 23:36

I don’t think we’re supposed to think “hey Karma deserved that” but we are supposed to empathize with Rahne’s frustration and pain.

You can think her actions were wrong and still have empathy for her. I think sometimes we forget that and should remember that real life people do irrational things all the time when emotions are involved.
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das_boot
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by das_boot » 22 Jul 2021, 08:14

Oh no, not at all. I can see why Karma went for the Crucible and I also LOVE that she kept robo-leg to avoid any kind of ableism dialogue and rhetoric… but you CAN see why Rahne would see it as almost a personal attack.

Tran, whom we only ever knew as a villain, has been given a resurrection… Tier who was forced into a situation beyond his control, understanding or that was especially “fair” cannot. Rahne isn’t thinking rationally, (which, would anyone?) and is almost siding with the kids in this “one rule of one, one rule for another” debate. I can see her fully supporting the kids in their resurrection of Gabby next issue.
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norwichchris
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by norwichchris » 22 Jul 2021, 11:01

Overall really liked this issue the artwork was a lot better. Loved the story with the villagers protecting the child as they feared he would be taken away and they immediately back of.

I don't think karma deserved that really, she was trying to warn Rahne from asking for assistance from the Shadowking as she felt correctly that he was untrustworthy given there past history. The 5 also told Rahne beforehand that there was something wrong with Tier's backups if he was still being backed up it would assume he was somehow still alive, so it's weird that Rahne would not at least consider this.

It sounds to me that Tier can't be resurrected at this point for unknown reasons so maybe she should try to discover why this is the case?

The kids are trying to resurrect Scout by adding her DNA to one of the eggs thinking this will allow her to be resurrected as they strongly suspect Scout is not eligible being a clone and all.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Jul 2021, 11:18

That’s not their plan bro…they want to place her uploaded consciousness back into her body. That’s why Cosmar is keeping it intact.
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ultimatekey
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by ultimatekey » 22 Jul 2021, 12:53

Wait........I just thought about this.........

And I apologize if this was mentioned before, but is Tier considered a mutant? I know he is the son of a mutant and a son of a god, which makes him a demigod but does that make him a mutant, though?

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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by norwichchris » 22 Jul 2021, 14:22

ultimatekey wrote:
22 Jul 2021, 12:53
Wait........I just thought about this.........

And I apologize if this was mentioned before, but is Tier considered a mutant? I know he is the son of a mutant and a son of a god, which makes him a demigod but does that make him a mutant, though?
Negative Cerebro only backs up Mutants so why would it not backup Tier if he was not not a Mutant at all? Shogo & Kyle don't have backups either
Blackcyclops wrote:
22 Jul 2021, 11:18
That’s not their plan bro…they want to place her uploaded consciousness back into her body. That’s why Cosmar is keeping it intact.
It was No-girl actually who was keeping Scout intact, but you are correct misread that part. They need the DNA though to make the clone viable as well as age it to the correct age can't see how they plan on inserting her consciousness without the 5 being present.

Also is there any reason No-Girl does not have her body restored?

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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Jul 2021, 14:48

No, No-Girl is in the body animating it with her mind but it specifically says (through Anole) that Cosmar is keeping the body from rotting.

Also, how can you say “I’m correct” but again repeat the same inaccurate initial plan?

Let me repeat it: the kids believe that through their synergy they can take Gabby’s consciousness from the upload and place it back in her original body. Martha is currently in Gabby’s body and animating it. Cosmar is using her powers to keep it from rotting. And the plan is to do what they’ve done before with the moving of consciousness to move Gabby’s back in her body (Martha is a telepath, remember). This was all the water dude’s plan.

Now Cosmar does suggest that it may be possible for them to use her powers to change a husk…but this is all speculation on her part, just like their initial plan.

It also shows that the kids’ don’t really have a full idea on how the 5 do their resurrection either though (since they don’t even really know where the minds’ are uploaded).

I’d say you might need to re-read it again to help clarify it for you.

And no, nobody has ever stated outright why Martha wasn’t given a body since Krakoa started. Prior to this she did do some cool shit with a robot body during the Gold series.
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Gremlin
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Gremlin » 22 Jul 2021, 15:44

Yeah this whole plot seems to be kids trying to do the R5's work without involving them. I don't think for one second that Xavier or anyone would deny Gabby a resurrection if they discovered she died. They have brought old Cable back with Kable still around, Esme and Sophie Cuckoos are back, and even the Marauders are scheduled for resurrection. This whole situation would be sorted if they went to the adults.

It's a good point about No-Girl. You would have thought by now a new body would have been grown for her. Malice was given one so why not Martha.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Jul 2021, 15:55

We spent alot of time on the Cuckoos one and it was explained why it’s different in-universe and the Marauders were at one point actual mutants and not clones, so they make sense…really it’s the Cable/Kable situation that would stand out as a “hey if you did that, then you can bring back Gabby thing”. But I highly doubt Jean, at the very least, wouldn’t fight to get her resurrected. The youths are just being youths though…
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tokenBG1009
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by tokenBG1009 » 22 Jul 2021, 18:39

Yeah, outside of Maddie, Gabby is the first real test of the "No clone" rule because she actually is a clone. I imagine if the argument came up for the Cuckoos we would learn either "they are one gestalt being so reviving one is like regrowing an arm" or "they're quints and genetically different enough to be counted as sisters" so the rule doesn't apply.

Is Nate Grey eligible? He's not technically a clone, but he should be genetically identical to Cable/Kable. Would he be considered an "identical" twin instead? Stryfe certainly wouldn't be eligible though right as he's a straight up clone.

As BC said, the Marauders are clones, but they're clones of original beings who are dead. So it could be argue the most recent version wasn't brought back, but the original that Sinister first recruited to the team.
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Magnus » 22 Jul 2021, 18:52

I don't know that the Cable situation can be pointed to just yet... maybe it's just me, but I have this feeling that Old Cable's resurrection is an allowed breach of the rules by Xavier, only for a one-way mission that's going to result in Old Cable dead again or gone off elsewhere in the timeline. Outside of the group involved in the mission, the public might not learn he was back. Basically a black ops/"off the books" resurrection, much different scenario that bringing back Gabby or Maddie on a permanent basis. (This is of course, all speculation until we see what happens in Cable #12).

It is a very interesting question though. I like to think Xavier and company would be more lenient and resurrect Gabby... depends on if you think they're really firm rules they're trying to follow with the 'no clones' thing, or if it's a convenient excuse to not resurrect Maddie. When you drill down on it, its quite a fundamental issue about whether Krakoa adheres to rule of law... even apart from the understandable nature of kids being kids and not wanting to involve the adults, I think it's still very questionable if going to the adults would sort everything out.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Jul 2021, 18:56

Nate isn’t technically dead though, right?????
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Gremlin
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Gremlin » 22 Jul 2021, 18:59

He's in his pocket universe, which I assume the X-Men know about. Other characters have referred to events in the Age of X-Man so it's common knowledge, hence why he isn't brought back.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Jul 2021, 19:53

Yeah that’s what I thought.
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by tokenBG1009 » 22 Jul 2021, 22:56

I was more asking as a hypothetical because of Nate's unique situation.
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Re: New Mutant #20

Post by norwichchris » Today, 06:20

Nate is definitely not dead but also don't think they would ever consider wanting him back on the Island rather like how Xavier didn't really want Legion back his own son. His powers and personality are just too unstable.

The problem have is "Scout's body is dead" I don't entirely know what SK did to her but it would prevent her from healing. How can they restore her backup if the body is dead?

But after reading the issue again it do feel as BC said that the kids have no idea how the resurrection process works or how they plan on reviving her.

Thought Cosmar only created nightmare illusions?

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