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New Mutants #17

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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Blackcyclops » 29 Apr 2021, 15:04

Cable wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 14:28
Blackcyclops wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 14:24
Your post sometimes confuse me...

Anyway, of course we don’t know if what Karma desires will work but given the context of the discussion between her and Mirage, that seems to be the general idea that she wants to return her brother.
I don't think anyone was questioning that, the discussion over her leg was whether she needs some other excuse to go through Crucible. It was thought to be just for the depowered but then Cosmar suggested it could be for a cosmetic reason and now Karma has another purpose. With a huge backlog of resurrections to go just how many reasons for Crucible are there.

Oh norchris’s post was definitely coming across like he was questioning that...and then he was asking would it even work and I was saying that we don’t know but that seems to be her goal.

@Gremlin: that’s exactly what I thought...
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norwichchris
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by norwichchris » 29 Apr 2021, 17:00

I did actually have to research what happened with Tran - Karma because bluntly speaking don't know or have forgotten much of her backstory except she had lots of family members she was caring for.

Xavier could separate them without the Crucible anyway as he would be restoring a dead mutant to life.

The resurrection as many have pointed out to me is limited by resources and time, would have thought a request like want my leg back or want to look normal again would be at the bottom of the pile than hundreds of dead mutants. Going to ignore the depowered Mutants as they should be given more of a priority in my view.

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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by ultimatekey » 29 Apr 2021, 18:09

Gremlin wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 14:44
Isn’t Tran’s soul/essence trapped within Karma? I assumed that’s why she wants to die, so that it can be released and he can be reborn. I will admit I am super sketchy on the specifics. Tran was last seen in New Mutants Dead Souls wasn’t he? I can’t remember how that ended for him.
He was made tangible through a magical artifact that Magik used on him and then she banished him to Limbo. Later, Magik confronted Karma about the scavenger hunt she made them go on and Magik brought Tran back to Earth. Karma possessed Magik (which is odd because she is supposed to be immune to telepathy and any forms of it) and used her Soulsword to cut Tran open and allow Karma to reabsorb his essence/spirit.

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Holland Oates
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Holland Oates » 29 Apr 2021, 21:56

ultimatekey wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 12:37
Fenix wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 11:56
I personally think Farouk and the Shadow King were, once, two different entities but they are now one and the same as their minds merged.
I was thinking if the Shadow King could have assimilated Farouk as it existed before Farouk himself, apparently, but even if we take this as correct it pretty much feels like Farouk is the dominant persona.

Anyway, I agree with Holland Oates and I can see Farouk influencing the kids in a very subtle way.
He has done it before and nobody noticed the full scope of his manipulations till it was very late (hey Moira?)
He seems to be very interested in bringing these kids and, now, Wolfsbane to his fold.
His final intentions remain to be seen.

I wouldn't be surprised if, knowing his past history with Karma, he is awakening Tran and manipulating Karma into going through the Crucible.

But, isn't Crucible a "tool" or procedure to allow former mutants to die and be reborn with their powers? Why would Krakoa accept Karma as a valid candidate to go through the Crucible?
Maybe Karma can use it to have her leg back.
She won't. It would be seen as ableist.

On another note, I think Farouk might have been influenced by the Shadow King so long that he doesn't know how to relate to others beyond manipulating them. He was groomed for lack of a better term. I don't know how Rahne fits in unless he's trying to hide his hand in corrupting these kids.

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Holland Oates
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Holland Oates » 29 Apr 2021, 22:04

Blackcyclops wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 13:04
Wait, people think Karma is using the Crucible to “fix” her leg?

I’m 100% sure she’s using the Crucible so she can die and be resurrected with her brother separated from her.

I don’t think that’s Farouk’s manipulation though...that’s Karma wanting her brother back.
Yeah, it's not for her leg. But why is Karma suddenly seeing images of her brother and having bad dreams? I think she's being steered. Could be Farouk. Could be the Shadow King. Could be Tran. I'm just expecting Xian to show up at the Crucible only to have Cosmar interpret it as her trying to fix a physical defect; further disillusioning the kids. At first, I thought Cosmar was the target because she's new and innocent enough that it would be tragic for her to come under the Shadow King's influence. But now I think that, while it might start out as the plan, Tran is the intended host. He might just be pushing Cosmar towards lashing out with her powers and seriously harming someone.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Blackcyclops » 29 Apr 2021, 22:55

Well she’s only recently absorbed her brother into her body and Dani’s powers were impacted by them being in another dimension…at least that’s how I took it, not as being a product of SK.
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by EphemeristX » 30 Apr 2021, 09:17

Karma coming back with her leg would be seen as ableist, but she's not going to grow back missing a leg. That seems reductive. And they're not going to bring her back and then remove it, are they? Cause that seems worse, someone choosing to lose a limb.
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by das_boot » 30 Apr 2021, 13:32

Holland Oates wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 22:04
Blackcyclops wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 13:04
Wait, people think Karma is using the Crucible to “fix” her leg?

I’m 100% sure she’s using the Crucible so she can die and be resurrected with her brother separated from her.

I don’t think that’s Farouk’s manipulation though...that’s Karma wanting her brother back.
Yeah, it's not for her leg. But why is Karma suddenly seeing images of her brother and having bad dreams? I think she's being steered. Could be Farouk. Could be the Shadow King. Could be Tran. I'm just expecting Xian to show up at the Crucible only to have Cosmar interpret it as her trying to fix a physical defect; further disillusioning the kids. At first, I thought Cosmar was the target because she's new and innocent enough that it would be tragic for her to come under the Shadow King's influence. But now I think that, while it might start out as the plan, Tran is the intended host. He might just be pushing Cosmar towards lashing out with her powers and seriously harming someone.
That’s what I meant by my previous post Re; Karma going through Crucible— no matter the actual reason, if she comes back with her flesh leg rather than the prosthetic, to someone like Cosmar whose personality appears slightly angry due to her new physical appearance, all she’s going to see is that Karma underwent Crucible and something that was physically different about her got “fixed”. It would absolutely serve to drive a wedge, which I think is the goal, plot-wise
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Holland Oates
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Holland Oates » 30 Apr 2021, 13:54

das_boot wrote:
30 Apr 2021, 13:32
Holland Oates wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 22:04
Blackcyclops wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 13:04
Wait, people think Karma is using the Crucible to “fix” her leg?

I’m 100% sure she’s using the Crucible so she can die and be resurrected with her brother separated from her.

I don’t think that’s Farouk’s manipulation though...that’s Karma wanting her brother back.
Yeah, it's not for her leg. But why is Karma suddenly seeing images of her brother and having bad dreams? I think she's being steered. Could be Farouk. Could be the Shadow King. Could be Tran. I'm just expecting Xian to show up at the Crucible only to have Cosmar interpret it as her trying to fix a physical defect; further disillusioning the kids. At first, I thought Cosmar was the target because she's new and innocent enough that it would be tragic for her to come under the Shadow King's influence. But now I think that, while it might start out as the plan, Tran is the intended host. He might just be pushing Cosmar towards lashing out with her powers and seriously harming someone.
That’s what I meant by my previous post Re; Karma going through Crucible— no matter the actual reason, if she comes back with her flesh leg rather than the prosthetic, to someone like Cosmar whose personality appears slightly angry due to her new physical appearance, all she’s going to see is that Karma underwent Crucible and something that was physically different about her got “fixed”. It would absolutely serve to drive a wedge, which I think is the goal, plot-wise
I agree with all of that

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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Holland Oates » 30 Apr 2021, 13:57

EphemeristX wrote:
30 Apr 2021, 09:17
Karma coming back with her leg would be seen as ableist, but she's not going to grow back missing a leg. That seems reductive. And they're not going to bring her back and then remove it, are they? Cause that seems worse, someone choosing to lose a limb.
Option three - it's removed against her will by an angry individual. Or the absent leg is part of her will. It's not reductive if she's taking a stance.

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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by ultimatekey » 30 Apr 2021, 14:27

How was Callisto able to regain her scars and lose her eye again after being resurrected? She must have done it to herself?

Unless she likes wearing an eyepatch when she does not necessarily need it.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Apr 2021, 14:33

Her eye patch pre-dates her first appearance right? If she’s had it for so long and given her personality, it would be reasonable to say she asked to be reborn without that eye and with her scars intact.
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norwichchris
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by norwichchris » 03 May 2021, 13:52

I was wondering that exact same thing do they restore damage to the husk they originally had or not? it could be something Proteus does automatically maybe alter the Husk to match the original body as much as possible to ensure there essence can be easily restored?

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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by tokenBG1009 » 03 May 2021, 14:10

Far as we can tell Scott still needs his visor after being brought back so they seem to be bringing people back either in their "ideal" form and for some reason Scott's ideal self requires his visor or they're bringing them back as they died.
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Holland Oates
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Holland Oates » 03 May 2021, 19:51

The visor certainly makes it easier to use his powers/adjust the beam width. And it probably feels weird not to have it on since he's been practicing with it since his teens.

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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by WorldWideWade » 03 May 2021, 20:16

I chalked the Cyclops thing up to it being a psychological issue rather than a physical problem that Scott has. So basically, because Scott's brain pattern is the same, he still hasn't mentally gotten past his mental blocks to control his power.

Was it in Astonishing that Emma identified that to be the case or before that even?

On the other hand, the Callisto thing makes no sense to me. BlackCyclops explanation that Callisto requested to be brought back looking the same makes as much sense as anything else. Callisto in particular seems the type to be proud of her scars and healing them would be like erasing her past or something.

I doubt Karma or characters such as Hellion would feel the same and we will probably see them revert back to their original looks before this is all said and done.
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by norwichchris » 04 May 2021, 12:01

The 5 edit/modify the husks based on the persons genetic template and customize according to their wishes think is what BC is getting at? in some cases though they can be denied for example Domino or to remove trauma. Why does Wolverine still have Adamantium bones?

Here's a point after Rosenberg run of X-Men finished Cyclops only had one eye then when HOX/POX started he has two? did think it could be healer but doubt it?

Technically does Karma need to perform to Crucible to retrieve her brothers she could just ask Xavier to have him removed and then installed into a new body so she could then make peace with him.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Blackcyclops » 04 May 2021, 12:34

That’s not at all what I was getting at…I’m saying that given Callisto’s attitude, she wouldn’t ask for any cosmetic changes to her body.
And your question about Wolverine’s bones has literally been answerer before by me in a thread last week lol
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by XtremeOne1 » 04 May 2021, 15:09

Which I'm pretty sure you replied to Norwhich, or at least were a very active part of discussion....Let'ts try to keep discussions about more focused and not bring up things discussed and finalized on older threads, and not bring up Wolverine in a book he's not connected to at all.

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Holland Oates
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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Holland Oates » 04 May 2021, 17:19

norwichchris wrote:
04 May 2021, 12:01
The 5 edit/modify the husks based on the persons genetic template and customize according to their wishes think is what BC is getting at? in some cases though they can be denied for example Domino or to remove trauma. Why does Wolverine still have Adamantium bones?

Here's a point after Rosenberg run of X-Men finished Cyclops only had one eye then when HOX/POX started he has two? did think it could be healer but doubt it?

Technically does Karma need to perform to Crucible to retrieve her brothers she could just ask Xavier to have him removed and then installed into a new body so she could then make peace with him.
I honestly don't know. What if this is just her way of officially burying him? Her death would mean their death. But she might only intend to be resurrected without him. The "peace" might just be exorcising a ghost. Interesting that this plot shows up when Malice just regained a physical form.

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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by norwichchris » 04 May 2021, 17:52

Blackcyclops wrote:
04 May 2021, 12:34
That’s not at all what I was getting at…I’m saying that given Callisto’s attitude, she wouldn’t ask for any cosmetic changes to her body.
And your question about Wolverine’s bones has literally been answerer before by me in a thread last week lol
Well she would get cosmetic changes to her body as she is getting a brand new one! I would assume her cosmetic request would be for it to be as near as possible to her original body scars, missing eye and all.

I agree I will never mention him again in this thread unless its relevant
Holland Oates wrote:
04 May 2021, 17:19
norwichchris wrote:
04 May 2021, 12:01
The 5 edit/modify the husks based on the persons genetic template and customize according to their wishes think is what BC is getting at? in some cases though they can be denied for example Domino or to remove trauma. Why does Wolverine still have Adamantium bones?

Here's a point after Rosenberg run of X-Men finished Cyclops only had one eye then when HOX/POX started he has two? did think it could be healer but doubt it?

Technically does Karma need to perform to Crucible to retrieve her brothers she could just ask Xavier to have him removed and then installed into a new body so she could then make peace with him.
I honestly don't know. What if this is just her way of officially burying him? Her death would mean their death. But she might only intend to be resurrected without him. The "peace" might just be exorcising a ghost. Interesting that this plot shows up when Malice just regained a physical form.
Well if he doesn't have a body then presuming Karma buried it or had it stored? his essence is trapped inside her so Xavier could reach in and remove him to a new body. That's what I was saying similar yes to Malice.

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Re: New Mutants #17

Post by Cable » 04 May 2021, 18:11

norwichchris wrote:
04 May 2021, 17:52
Blackcyclops wrote:
04 May 2021, 12:34
That’s not at all what I was getting at…I’m saying that given Callisto’s attitude, she wouldn’t ask for any cosmetic changes to her body.
And your question about Wolverine’s bones has literally been answerer before by me in a thread last week lol
Well she would get cosmetic changes to her body as she is getting a brand new one! I would assume her cosmetic request would be for it to be as near as possible to her original body scars, missing eye and all.
Even if her husk didn't come out that way she of course knows Masque. It could be a way of keeping solidarity with Morlocks.
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