Welcome to unstablemolecules.com, the discussion home for mightyavengers.net, uncanon.com and uncannyxmen.net!

X-Men Red #4

Here you can express your opinions about released issues of the current X-Titles
User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 2401
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

X-Men Red #4

Post by das_boot » 16 May 2018, 16:12

Best quote of the year: “Being Wolverine doesn’t make me impervious to the wonder of a fucking mermaid”.

Other than that? I’m starting to worry. I like this writer a lot, but the art’s still very hit or miss for me. The characters are well-written and likeable, but this plot just seems to be dragging. I don’t know whether that’s because it’s a monthly title rather than fortnightly, but still. I need a bit more urgency here.
Marvel Fantasy League Team: Laura Kinney, James Howlett, Domino, Luke Cage, Magik, Black Bolt, Sentry, Dazzler, Nick Fury, Dazzler, Hawkeye (not the Hawkguy)

Cosmos666
Posts: 192
Joined: 13 Aug 2017, 01:59

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Cosmos666 » 16 May 2018, 17:09

das_boot wrote:
16 May 2018, 16:12
Best quote of the year: “Being Wolverine doesn’t make me impervious to the wonder of a fucking mermaid”.

Other than that? I’m starting to worry. I like this writer a lot, but the art’s still very hit or miss for me. The characters are well-written and likeable, but this plot just seems to be dragging. I don’t know whether that’s because it’s a monthly title rather than fortnightly, but still. I need a bit more urgency here.
I think that's only the monthly schedule that is giving this impression. Maybe the Trinary rescue mission could be told in a single issue instead of two but Taylor did used this side-plot to expand and flesh out the main story threat. I think that with this issue we finally reached the first issue's prologue. Also is it me or Taylor pulled a bait-and-switch with Gambit and Storm.

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 2401
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by das_boot » 16 May 2018, 17:13

I don’t think it’s a bait and switch. I fully think that Gambit’s joining the team and Storm’s just there temporarily, but isn’t this the title that’s meant to have a loose and rotating cast?
Marvel Fantasy League Team: Laura Kinney, James Howlett, Domino, Luke Cage, Magik, Black Bolt, Sentry, Dazzler, Nick Fury, Dazzler, Hawkeye (not the Hawkguy)

User avatar
Quick and Dead
Posts: 1884
Joined: 12 Feb 2009, 19:34
Location: New York City
Contact:

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Quick and Dead » 16 May 2018, 18:25

I agree that this is dragging and it's also not a lot of fun? The preview pages made me think we were going to get this epic brawl between Ororo and Jean but we just got a lot of talking instead. As much as I like Jean's characterization and the dialogue, we're four issues in and I can't really name any great moments. Taylor said he was inspired by Morrison but besides having Nova around, I'm just not seeing it.
Check out my comic reviews and articles! http://www.comicosity.com/author/anthonyblackwood/

User avatar
Fenix
Posts: 358
Joined: 27 Sep 2007, 00:44

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Fenix » 16 May 2018, 20:52

I was expecting a proper fight as we could see at the begining of Xtintion Agenda or Inferno, its always cool to see them giving us a good show... but no, we havent got that here.
Somehow I expected it as Jean has come back being slightly annoying with this calm attitude and zen mindset. So hurting her best friend while fighting knowing she is under some kind of mental manipulation wouldnt be very much in-character for her now.

I love Jean, and im enjoying this book even if I still find some pick up members just forced into the story in not the most organic way (which is exactly how Xmen red is flowing... forcefully) but I struggle to understand if the Ghost Jean that teen Jean was seeing during her series was actually our Jean or who exactly? I cant see it clearly, I still need to make up my mind about the whole Phoenix resurrection mini, and this upcoming Xmen Red Annual should have been a prelude to the actual series, not the opposite, and this is working against Taylor even if he has not figured it out yet.

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 2401
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by das_boot » 16 May 2018, 22:33

Fenix, I totally agree with you on the ghost Jean thing. We kind of need some clarity on this issue because while my interpretation of it was that ghost Jean was the fragment of the Phoenix Force that was most heavily influenced by real Jean, we just don’t know and that’s grating now.

Honestly, for this series being the return to action of one of the most beloved characters in X-history, I kind of expected more. If anything, at present I kind of wish she’d joined the Avengers instead.
Marvel Fantasy League Team: Laura Kinney, James Howlett, Domino, Luke Cage, Magik, Black Bolt, Sentry, Dazzler, Nick Fury, Dazzler, Hawkeye (not the Hawkguy)

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 17076
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 16 May 2018, 22:53

I don’t feel as negatively about the book as you guys...

Like I’m glad that these two best friends broke the traditions (for traditions to stay cool for me, they have to be subverted occasionally) of them fighting...I like the team roster and completely disagree with it feeling like a forced roster (please elaborate on that one), it feels like a random conflagration of characters pulled together by circumstances. And I like the art more than I dislike it.
I'm Team Remender, Waid, Hickman and Gillen

My X-Men Draft Picks:
Prof. X, Legion, Polaris, Quicksilver, Meggan, Deadpool, Pixie, and Danger

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 2401
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by das_boot » 16 May 2018, 23:01

I think I might have to re-read this as a complete story.

BC— I honestly think this could be me being a bit impatient because it’s not on a fortnightly cycle and it feels like we got dropped right in the middle of the plot and Jean’s plan without much of her reflecting what she wants to do with her life without Xavier or Scott around.

The team... it doesn’t bother me. I liked Gentle being recruited here and Jean’s reasoning makes sense. I think it’s more that I want to see more of Trinary. I like to get to know new characters pretty quickly and while
I think he did well with Gabby in this respect in Wolverine... she just kind of feels like she’s there because there’s a need in the story for her to be there, and that her character isn’t quite there yet.
Marvel Fantasy League Team: Laura Kinney, James Howlett, Domino, Luke Cage, Magik, Black Bolt, Sentry, Dazzler, Nick Fury, Dazzler, Hawkeye (not the Hawkguy)

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 1113
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 00:54

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Magnus » 16 May 2018, 23:12

I'm still liking this but I agree with it feeling slow. But it's only issue 4! I really think it is just because it's monthly rather than fortnightly and the schedule of Blue/Gold is kinda screwing with perception (as well as them having a 20-something issue head start). I just hope this title gets a chance to tell its story before the next big revamp. It's still weird to have this monumental thing like Jean Grey coming back and not be touched upon in the main books... the 'Wedding Special' this week had Jean but that's still a one-off.

As for the characters... it seemed really close to having a good reason to bring this team together (a lot of characters just happening to be in the wrong place/wrong time for Nova's fixation on taking out Jean) but... what's the reason they have to stay? I guess you could argue that they're now "in the know" that someone's targeting Jean and they'd be targets too, but... not buying it. Especially since we already saw Nova can just go and infect someone like Storm so easily. And it's not as if they know it's Nova yet. They should be contacting ALL the X-Men and giving them anti-nanite suits!

I really do like that Nova's using tech and not just her own psychic powers, though. Getting back to the roots of the character.

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 2401
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by das_boot » 16 May 2018, 23:55

Like you said, they don’t know it’s Nova. I feel like if they did, Jean would be taking the fight to her, or at least working on a solution for the rest of the population, and there’s no guarantee that they haven’t already been brainwashed. I think Jean’s made a smart play here in terms of keeping her team small(ish).
Marvel Fantasy League Team: Laura Kinney, James Howlett, Domino, Luke Cage, Magik, Black Bolt, Sentry, Dazzler, Nick Fury, Dazzler, Hawkeye (not the Hawkguy)

User avatar
Fenix
Posts: 358
Joined: 27 Sep 2007, 00:44

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Fenix » 17 May 2018, 17:39

Blackcyclops wrote:
16 May 2018, 22:53
I don’t feel as negatively about the book as you guys...

Like I’m glad that these two best friends broke the traditions (for traditions to stay cool for me, they have to be subverted occasionally) of them fighting...I like the team roster and completely disagree with it feeling like a forced roster (please elaborate on that one), it feels like a random conflagration of characters pulled together by circumstances. And I like the art more than I dislike it.
I didnt want to make this book have any negative side, at the end its a matter of perspectives and opinions and most of us are enjoying this book as a fresh breeze.

As Magnus mentioned (and its a pretty valid point) some characters just happen to get involved with the plot but this shouldnt be the main reason to be recruited as this squad members, per se.
From my own logic, if I were back from a long absence and I had to assemble and coordinate a team to do a really difficult task I would try to gather my most trusted and competent allies/friends.
Using this as a starting point this roster seems a long departure from Jean's comfort zone, trusted and best friends and longtime teammates.

We dont have a clue what happened after the resurrection mini, the annual is nearly here but Im not sure we will get all the answers we are hungry for.
But as I have said before Jean had a tight and close relationship with the original Xmen as they served in two different eras as Xmen and as XFactor and later rejoining the Xmen, and also most of the Second Genesis including Havok and Polaris and the Xmen member who served during the original Blue and Gold eras, specially the Gold squad.
Then we could add some New Mutants in the mix (even if they would not be a first choice) and, of course, Cable.

However we get Wolverine (X23) which, correct me if Im wrong, Jean had never met as X23 first appearance was after Jean died.
Also we get her clone, Gabby, and Nezno who is an inmensely powerful mutant brawler whose mutation need a jumpstart and fix or it will kill him, both of them never ever talked to Jean neither before this.
Trinary is a brand new character and so far she is probably the only one add to this mix who seems justified enough, but everytime I see her I think of Jean and Forge's "professional" relationship (as they shared some cool moments back in the day when Jean helped him and Banshee to search for the missing Xmen) and why Jean wouldnt just go to Forge from the very start.
We can take Nightcrawler and Gambit as logic pick ups, somehow, even if they are not the ones I would have guessed Jean would find more useful and resourcefull for this... and Storm, who is one of my top bids but if she is staying in this squad remains a mystery just yet.
And while Namor is not one of the most obvious choices as the story unfolds makes sense and its a powerhouse and offers some other aces under his sleeve like Atlantis as a safe place for them and HQ.

Also, as a different topic... I always expected a major psy to fix Alex Summers inversion, I really hope its Emma who finally solves this, but having Jean doing it somehow even if its a combined task with Emma or other telepaths would be amazing and would integrate Jean into continuity as so far she seems to be limited to Xmen Red and nothing else.

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 17076
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 17 May 2018, 18:05

But Magnus kinda refutes your point: he says they have a solid reason for gathering together...it’s happenstance, they were in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time, how is that not logical? Your idea is different than the very circumstances of the book, if that’s the case anybody could argue any roster makes sense if you are just going off any ol’ premise.

This book had an igniting incident and from their a team formed around that...now as Magnus says, you can question why they stay together after the formation, but the way they were gathered makes sense due to the start.

It’s not like Jean sat at Cerebero and did what Cyclops did after Morrison or what Cap did in the #300s for the Avengers and just picked people. If that was the case then of course it would be the best thing for her to either pick the people she’s most familir with or best suited to a task. But that’s the thing: The team formed around the events unfolding in the first four issues.

You can dislike the team and even the incident that led to it’s formation but to say it doesn’t make sense because Jean didn’t pick her best friends well...doesn’t make sense lol, since Jean didn’t really pick this team to begin with. They just sort came together...like the New Warriors, OG West Coast avengers, New Avengers, Defenders, OG Avengers, Fraction’s Defenders, etc

As for why the team stays together, it seems like they still aren’t sure it’s Nova’s doing and given the way the threat could be any where and anything, perhaps it helps to keep it this small group that you know you can trust, idk...
I'm Team Remender, Waid, Hickman and Gillen

My X-Men Draft Picks:
Prof. X, Legion, Polaris, Quicksilver, Meggan, Deadpool, Pixie, and Danger

User avatar
InsipidLust
Posts: 625
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 01:21

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by InsipidLust » 17 May 2018, 19:48

I accidentally stopped reading on the "new mutant nation" page because I thought that was the closer of the book for some reason. Ending it there made this an OK issue (a B-, B issue). I love this take on Jean, even if it isn't really reflective of the character I've known her to be save for who she was starting to become under Morrison's pen (this Jean seems less emotional, somewhat less effusive in her communication style and more action-oriented than she's ever been). I wonder how long-time Jean fans (i'm more of a begrudging eventual convert).

I do see the shades of Morrison in this, but they're muted ones. The scene where Jean used her telekinesis in a "new" way (not really new for the character IIRC but I'll buy it for now) to navigate Storm's brain and extract the sentinite was awesome (although it could have been a little bit longer or tenser rather than jump cutting) and reminded me of how Morrison liked to describe Jean's powers.

Cassandra Nova struck me as an effective villain here and her appearance before these various leaders basically echoed her initial appearances with that Trask guy she eventually killed.

Actually, thinking about this again: Jean's not communicating about this to other X-Men seems both reckless and somewhat out of character to me. Jean's whole thing is being a moral center of trust and integrity—and she's said herself that working together and really caring for others is why the X-Men are able to beat bad guys (this was basically her speech to Nova years ago). That she'd go undercover and not let, like, Kitty or the people up top know what was going on seems strange and like something she might avoid doing considering how this "going underground" and "people thinking you're dead" or "evil" or "gone" thing has regularly caused great trouble in her life and those that she cares about.

The team formation doesn't bother me in the least. Let's try something new.

Still, though. Y'all X-Men can't pick up the phone? And you wonder why things are always going wrong!
Unity Squad Draft: Monet St. Croix. Mr. Fantastic. Professor Xavier. Doctor Voodoo. Tempus.

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 17076
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 17 May 2018, 20:19

I guess the most Morrison-esque thing to me is the topical nature of the story. But even that’s borderline...Morrison like thumbing his nose at modern stuff (he’s very much a grumpy old man in that regard), whereas Taylor is trying to directly address the world we live in.
I'm Team Remender, Waid, Hickman and Gillen

My X-Men Draft Picks:
Prof. X, Legion, Polaris, Quicksilver, Meggan, Deadpool, Pixie, and Danger

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 2401
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by das_boot » 17 May 2018, 20:35

Totally agree Insipid. It really bothers me that they never just pick up the phone. Like... A STUDENT WAS KILLED EVERYONE. DO SOMETHING. NOTICE.
Marvel Fantasy League Team: Laura Kinney, James Howlett, Domino, Luke Cage, Magik, Black Bolt, Sentry, Dazzler, Nick Fury, Dazzler, Hawkeye (not the Hawkguy)

User avatar
Anna Raven
Posts: 3645
Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 22:53

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Anna Raven » 17 May 2018, 21:54

das_boot wrote:
17 May 2018, 20:35
Totally agree Insipid. It really bothers me that they never just pick up the phone. Like... A STUDENT WAS KILLED EVERYONE. DO SOMETHING. NOTICE.
Like when Gambit does his own Gambit-y thing and doesn't call anyone I get it. But Jean and Kitty should definitely be in communication. I guess maybe the no-prize explanation is Jean doesn't want her "murderer stink" rubbing off on Kitty and the school, but I'm not buying they couldn't have a direct line no one knows about.
Editorial Draft Results: Rogue|Magneto|Mystique|Sabretooth|Madelyn Prior|Lady Deathstrike|Blink

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 17076
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 17 May 2018, 22:05

I can understand Jean not wanting them involved but to not at least tell them? That’s weird...and would really have quelled amy opposition to Jean keeping her team as is.

Because technically Jean’s team is more like CC’s X-Treme team than what Gold is. I mean does Gold have an actual lineup or is like Fraction’s form less big team?
I'm Team Remender, Waid, Hickman and Gillen

My X-Men Draft Picks:
Prof. X, Legion, Polaris, Quicksilver, Meggan, Deadpool, Pixie, and Danger

User avatar
das_boot
Posts: 2401
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 15:24

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by das_boot » 17 May 2018, 22:15

Anna Raven wrote:
17 May 2018, 21:54
das_boot wrote:
17 May 2018, 20:35
Totally agree Insipid. It really bothers me that they never just pick up the phone. Like... A STUDENT WAS KILLED EVERYONE. DO SOMETHING. NOTICE.
Like when Gambit does his own Gambit-y thing and doesn't call anyone I get it. But Jean and Kitty should definitely be in communication. I guess maybe the no-prize explanation is Jean doesn't want her "murderer stink" rubbing off on Kitty and the school, but I'm not buying they couldn't have a direct line no one knows about.
She’s a telepath! She literally doesn’t even need a phone, she just needs to stick on some weird helmet and be all “HEY KITTY SOMEONE KILLED A STUDENT BUT I’M TOTALLY ON IT AND ALSO HERE ARE SOME COSTUMES YOU NEED OKAY KISSES BUT NOT REALLY YOU HORRIFIC PARDOY OF WOMANHOOD BYEEEEEEEE”
Marvel Fantasy League Team: Laura Kinney, James Howlett, Domino, Luke Cage, Magik, Black Bolt, Sentry, Dazzler, Nick Fury, Dazzler, Hawkeye (not the Hawkguy)

User avatar
ev82
Posts: 1848
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 14:47
Location: San Francisco

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by ev82 » 17 May 2018, 22:33

As a long time Jean Grey fan, I am really enjoying this take on her. It very much falls inline with the evolution of the character that started with CC's Revolution, and came to fruition in Morrisons run. I look at Ghost Jean more as being a subconscious astral projection from Jean, when she was in the Phoenix Egg World, that took on a life of its own.

I love this so far, but I agree that being monthly is making it seem slow-I just read all 4 issues together and it was a great read. Obviously there has to be some communication with Kitty since Storm and Nightcrawler are on both teams.
Spoiler: show
Unless this takes place after the wedding, which would make sense considering the need for isolation. I think we will see a new team in Gold after that. (hopefully a new creative team too).
Also, is the author British? I noticed in issue #2 the writer had Jean use the term "car park", which is British English; in American English it would be "Parking Lot".
Last edited by ev82 on 17 May 2018, 22:50, edited 1 time in total.
GOTG Draft:Polaris|Gladiator|Lilandra Neramani|Medusa|Korvus|Major Victory|Hepzibah|Irani Rael (Nova Corps)|Neutron
Nemeses: The Celestials

Cosmos666
Posts: 192
Joined: 13 Aug 2017, 01:59

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Cosmos666 » 17 May 2018, 22:45

About the team's formation, as Blackcyclops said it was happenstance. I think that from Jean's speech at the UN to the end of issue 4 it might have passed 5 days. At most a week.

About Jean going underground, I think Jean is concern about who else might be infected by the sentinites and the consequences of it. Remember that once Storm was neutralized she tried to off herself during her possession before Laura kicked her unconscious. And Ororo was infected while in the mansion. The group that formed around her is trustworthy because she knows they aren't infected. Anyone else would be an unnecessary risk.

And finally about Kyle, does Jean even know that someone killed a student?

User avatar
Wings
Posts: 1187
Joined: 12 Sep 2013, 14:42

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Wings » 17 May 2018, 22:51

ev82 wrote:
17 May 2018, 22:33

Also, is the author British? I noticed in issue #2 the writer had Jean use the term "car park", which is British English; in American English it would be "Parking Lot".
He's Australian.
Sign-ups for Betrayal Game 76: Murder in Manhattan now open! Help Jessica Jones solve the unexplained murder of a group of super-villains! Link to the thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=24&p=169031#p169031

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 1113
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 00:54

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Magnus » 18 May 2018, 00:27

Cosmos666 wrote:
17 May 2018, 22:45
About Jean going underground, I think Jean is concern about who else might be infected by the sentinites and the consequences of it. Remember that once Storm was neutralized she tried to off herself during her possession before Laura kicked her unconscious. And Ororo was infected while in the mansion. The group that formed around her is trustworthy because she knows they aren't infected. Anyone else would be an unnecessary risk.

And finally about Kyle, does Jean even know that someone killed a student?
I think it would be quite easy to read into it that Jean's team can't trust anyone except themselves, but, I'd like to have just seen that on the page itself instead of having to headcanon it. I can buy that even contacting Kitty or someone would be a risk, since it's possible all the X-Men are infected and telling them wouldn't do anything (assuming only Jean and/or Trinary are skilled enough to disable the nanites, so if they met up with any other X-Men it could be a trap).

And yeah, for the dead kid, I don't think Jean knows. Heck it's also possible no one at the mansion knows depending on how Cassie cleaned it up.

User avatar
InsipidLust
Posts: 625
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 01:21

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by InsipidLust » 18 May 2018, 04:55

My guy Forge needs to do something about getting mind controlled into making horrible implements of hatred
Unity Squad Draft: Monet St. Croix. Mr. Fantastic. Professor Xavier. Doctor Voodoo. Tempus.

User avatar
Blackcyclops
Posts: 17076
Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by Blackcyclops » 18 May 2018, 09:07

InsipidLust wrote:
18 May 2018, 04:55
My guy Forge needs to do something about getting mind controlled into making horrible implements of hatred
That’s his secondary mutation
I'm Team Remender, Waid, Hickman and Gillen

My X-Men Draft Picks:
Prof. X, Legion, Polaris, Quicksilver, Meggan, Deadpool, Pixie, and Danger

User avatar
kalibeast
Posts: 23
Joined: 16 Dec 2013, 22:41

Re: X-Men Red #4

Post by kalibeast » 18 May 2018, 13:10

This team is such a collective booger.

You have Jean, who is a beige character at best, who is perhaps best defined by her relationships with MANY X-characters (the O5, Storm, Wolverine, Emma, Cable, Rachel Grey), and choose to utilize none of them.

Instead, you use Kurt, who, despite a long-standing friendship with Jean, has never really been portrayed as an extremely close friend. This I'm actually fine with, except he has yet to really do or say much in four issues.

You have Laura, who has literally no relationship with Jean, and Gabby, who I actually enjoy in this book for her comic relief, but has even LESS to do with Jean than Laura. Also, Laura has said like 8 words throughout the run so far, and the best ones have been about a mermaid. What is their actual reasoning for joining up with this team?

I understand bringing Wakanda into this book because of the movie and #Wakandaforever, but I feel like Gentle just happening to be there/joining this team is a forced way to stick the X-Men's noses into Black Panther popularity. And why is Jean suddenly able to help Gentle when no one else could before? What were they all doing, just sitting around and laughing at him?

Namor is just... I can't. What's the point? Like Gentle, he provides a reason for a new setting for our new X-Adventures, but I just can't get into him as an X-character. That one's just more personal preference than anything.

Trinary seems cool.

Post Reply