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X-men Gold #21

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Flapflop
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X-men Gold #21

Post by Flapflop » 07 Feb 2018, 16:03

So team and costume shake up this issue, this story takes place before the "back in time" story of X-men Red then.

In short:
Spoiler: show
Old man Logan leaves. Mesmero/Pyro/Avalanche escape prison to attack Lydia Nance for what she did. Rachel/Prestige has a new look (a variant on her Hound personae) but also on the point of a nervous breakdown (turning into the dark side/Dark Phoenix alert). Kitty assembles a team, Magma insists she joins because she wants revenge, to stop Mesmero but he defeats them all very, very easily.
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Quick and Dead
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Quick and Dead » 07 Feb 2018, 21:38

So this was good up until the end fight. Colossus, Kurt, and Storm get taken down off panel by a copycat Avalanche and Pyro??? Or was Mesmero doing the heavy lifting? Even so... yikes.
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Cosmos666
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Cosmos666 » 08 Feb 2018, 00:20

This is was the first time I was interested in this book beyond the art which was lovely. The Vance plot may give us some good drama and the Rachel plot has my attention. Removing Logan can only give breathing room to the other characters. With Rachel receiving some attention and Kurt in Red where Taylor can give him something to do (hopefully), Ororo is the only one who is window dressing right now.

ultimatekey
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by ultimatekey » 08 Feb 2018, 16:46

Spoiler: show

This issue confirms that the "Pyro" we see is not the deceased St. John Allerdyce. It is a completely new character with the ability to create and control fire.

"Avalanche" is a new character here as well, with similar powers to the deceased Dominic Petros.

When I first read this issue, it contradicted with the appearance of Pyro in Iceman's solo series.

In the Iceman Solo series, it was acknowledged that the Pyro the Icemen were fighting iss St. John Allerdyce, who apparently came back to life through unknown means.

But here in X-Men Gold, Mesmero spoke about St. John Allerdyce in past tense as in he is still dead.

I wonder if this new Pyro was the one portrayed in the Planet X storyline in Uncanny Avengers?

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Milkshake08
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Milkshake08 » 08 Feb 2018, 20:47

I dropped this title during the last arc, picked this issue up and I'm done again. I thought this was AWFUL. The way it was plotted out, the writing, the dialogue, the overly fast pace (I mean each thing was happening on one-two pages). He doesn't seem to know how to use Storm at all. Why bring Magma along without having it mean something to her character? Besides this title, we haven't seen much of her since the New Mutants run a few years back, so why bother if you aren't going to make her interesting? And I want to care about the Rachel stuff but it's just so ham fisted and under developed. Sigh. Give this team and title to a different writer who can actually make these plots interesting. He has good ideas, but can't write them. And Storm is just so not Storm in this. She gets taken out so easily.

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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by InsipidLust » 08 Feb 2018, 22:59

Well, I went from thinking "well this is alright" to "this is on the lower part of middling" and finally to "I hate this" as of this issue.

Also, does Mesmero's power upgrade know no goddamned end? An industrial-grade telepath? Bitch w h e r e?
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Anna Raven
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Anna Raven » 09 Feb 2018, 00:01

Flapflop wrote: ↑
07 Feb 2018, 16:03
So team and costume shake up this issue, this story takes place before the "back in time" story of X-men Red then.

In short:
Spoiler: show
Old man Logan leaves. Mesmero/Pyro/Avalanche escape prison to attack Lydia Nance for what she did. Rachel/Prestige has a new look (a variant on her Hound personae) but also on the point of a nervous breakdown (turning into the dark side/Dark Phoenix alert). Kitty assembles a team, Magma insists she joins because she wants revenge, to stop Mesmero but he defeats them all very, very easily.
But it can't be before X-Men Red bc OML was there in Phoenix Resurrection. Unless he left and already came back.
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Magnus
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Magnus » 09 Feb 2018, 01:39

Anna Raven wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 00:01
But it can't be before X-Men Red bc OML was there in Phoenix Resurrection. Unless he left and already came back.
But Rachel is in her new 'Hound' costume at the start of Phoenix Resurrection, so this has to take place before then.

I agree with the overall dissatisfaction here. The X-Men getting beaten so soundly, and off-panel, was stupid.

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kalibeast
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by kalibeast » 09 Feb 2018, 01:44

Ugh Magma flying... πŸ˜‘

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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by znop » 09 Feb 2018, 03:39

kalibeast wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 01:44
Ugh Magma flying... πŸ˜‘
Is Warpath flying besides her?

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Anna Raven
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Anna Raven » 09 Feb 2018, 05:26

Magnus wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 01:39
Anna Raven wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 00:01
But it can't be before X-Men Red bc OML was there in Phoenix Resurrection. Unless he left and already came back.
But Rachel is in her new 'Hound' costume at the start of Phoenix Resurrection, so this has to take place before then.
Aaaaaand I've gone cross-eyed....
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znop
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by znop » 09 Feb 2018, 07:51

znop wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 03:39
kalibeast wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 01:44
Ugh Magma flying... πŸ˜‘
Is Warpath flying besides her?
Yeah... I mean he can fly too, right?

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Feb 2018, 11:15

Anna Raven wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 05:26
Magnus wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 01:39
Anna Raven wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 00:01
But it can't be before X-Men Red bc OML was there in Phoenix Resurrection. Unless he left and already came back.
But Rachel is in her new 'Hound' costume at the start of Phoenix Resurrection, so this has to take place before then.
Aaaaaand I've gone cross-eyed....
This arc could simply be not that long and does take place before PR.
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Fenix
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Fenix » 09 Feb 2018, 11:19

Guggenheim needs to get another job, seriously.
The explanation why Old Man Logan leaves left me out cold. Senseless.
Kitty has the whole Xmen cast living in the damn mansion, Magma who is clearly compromised wants to come and join them forcefully and:
- Why didnt she ask Rachel to calm her down and put her to rest? Sounds mean but clearly Amara is not in her right mind, much less to join them in a fight with her captor.
- If Rachel is compromised as well... isnt another telepath around? I mean, where is Karma? or the bloody Ink? Quentin? Or just go without telepaths, its not a requirement for every mission.
- Then if they are one man down (OML left) why wouldnt she get any other Xman to help? I mean, Iceman is around, isnt he? Forge? from the New Mutants she could get Magik, Karma, Warlock, Cypher or Moonstar too, Dazzler should be around too. And all the whole New Xmen bunch? Anole? Rockslide? Hellion? Surge? So here is where you see how poor and unresourceful our Guggs is.

Then again, the whole team goes down off panel, as usual. This is beyond a joke now.

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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Cyke » 09 Feb 2018, 16:28

I still like the developing relationship between Kurt and Rachel but that's about it for this issue though.
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Magnus
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Magnus » 09 Feb 2018, 19:58

Yeah, I know Kitty is hated around these parts but her decisions regarding the team that Fenix listed may be some of the dumbest things she's done yet.

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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by tokenBG1009 » 10 Feb 2018, 12:51

Fenix wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 11:19
Guggenheim needs to get another job, seriously.
Words the Arrow fanbase has been shouting for the last 3 years...

Guggenheim has shown a lot of issues I have with Arrow in this book mainly he's miserable at writing relationships and leaders just making terrible decisions. Granted, unlike Arrow, I gave up on this title and have mostly just been reading what you guys have to say about it.
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Wings
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Wings » 10 Feb 2018, 13:38

Why did Guggs act like Rachel having her Hound marks back was a big deal when she had them right up until he took over?
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Wings
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Wings » 10 Feb 2018, 13:38

Why did Guggs act like Rachel having her Hound marks back was a big deal when she had them right up until he took over?
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Cosmos666 » 10 Feb 2018, 19:25

tokenBG1009 wrote: ↑
10 Feb 2018, 12:51
Fenix wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 11:19
Guggenheim needs to get another job, seriously.
Words the Arrow fanbase has been shouting for the last 3 years...

Guggenheim has shown a lot of issues I have with Arrow in this book mainly he's miserable at writing relationships and leaders just making terrible decisions. Granted, unlike Arrow, I gave up on this title and have mostly just been reading what you guys have to say about it.
I'm so happy that I left Arrow behind years ago. And judging from his current output in Gold he hasn't got any better.
Wings wrote: ↑
10 Feb 2018, 13:38
Why did Guggs act like Rachel having her Hound marks back was a big deal when she had them right up until he took over?
Guggenheim doesn't care about previous continuity. Even his own.

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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Crawler » 12 Feb 2018, 01:09

kalibeast wrote: ↑
09 Feb 2018, 01:44
Ugh Magma flying... πŸ˜‘
The Pyro/Avalanche mess I shrugged off. The timeline with OML leaving? I shrugged it off too.

Magma flying, though. That one got me. Her powers are from the earth, dang it. She's not Firestar-lite.

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Fenix
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by Fenix » 13 Feb 2018, 11:49

We, as geeks, love power developments, we love relationships, we love smart uses to their powers, we love changes in team rosters, new costumes...

But all of that has to come with dialogs, explanations, character interaction. Claremont was really good with this because he was free to do as he wanted and many times he explained and developed his changes over several issues giving us those old fashioned but charming inner dialogs or thoughts.
If you want Magma to fly then get us to the Danger Room where she is training with Iceman or whoever, show us some dialog explaining how is it possible or something, tell us what our characters think about it... We get NOTHING here. Is she gliding in hot air? Can she actually fly? why is she more and more like Mutant X's Firestar or Ultimate Xmen's Firestar instead of her own person with her cool and signature powers?
Then Kitty.
Paint a beard on her and we have Oliver Queen from Arrow. I absolutely hate Bendis but his Kitty was 200 times better than this. And rushing into a relationship with Peter and even getting married to him like this is... the opposite to a strong woman who loves herself. Its like a teenager playing adult who finally got what she wanted and rush to get it. I cant understand all this developments because even if they have always liked each other, even if they care, even if they love each other... its being played so badly and so rushed that It doesnt fit their personalities.

Then Guggs knocking down the team off panel is becoming a tool and recurrent. Storm was KOd when they were facing the russian Bratva/ninjas some months ago.
Even the whole spaceship crash two issues ago could have been delivered so much better. He doesnt even know how their powers work.
Peter should have turned into steel instantly so the whole point of him being badly injured didnt make sense.
And even in worst case scenario Kitty should have been able to lift him and get him wherever she wanted. She already lifted him when she was 14 and they kissed for first time, is Guggs telling us she can phase a whole building and then she cant phase him and levitate him?
Or Storm self doubts? Really? She went from the alpha Lady calling the shoots to need OML pushing her and cheering her up? O_O

Then, coming back to this last issue.
Can somebody explain how is possible that Mesmero, not Exodus, not Cassandra Nova... Mesmero, a C-List enemy, beat Rachel and the rest of the Xmen?? (Because i refuse to think fakePyro and fakeAvalanche did that)
So Guggenheim is giving us the most one dimensional Xmen we have got in years, Lemire was god compared to him and Bendis who has many issues when writing team books was actually a pro compared to him.
God, even Matt Fraction and his signature "as you wish" Xmen was brilliant compared to Guggs, at least Fraction knew what he wanted to tell us with Scott and Emma and some other characters like Dr Nemesis or Pixie.

Can we start a petition? Should we?

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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by WorldWideWade » 14 Feb 2018, 19:04

Petitions don't really do anything at least for this kind of thing. I also feel like petitions for pop culture grievances have really devalued the importance of the petition and its original intent.

That aside, the only way things will change is if we as X-fans stop buying the book. We have to get over our completionist mentality and if you have to read the books, get a Marvel Unlimited account and wait for the issues to be uploaded 6 months later. It means not being able to discuss the issues topically but is paying money for something you dislike better?
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MrFOOM
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by MrFOOM » 14 Feb 2018, 19:53

WorldWideWade wrote: ↑
14 Feb 2018, 19:04
Petitions don't really do anything at least for this kind of thing. I also feel like petitions for pop culture grievances have really devalued the importance of the petition and its original intent.

That aside, the only way things will change is if we as X-fans stop buying the book. We have to get over our completionist mentality and if you have to read the books, get a Marvel Unlimited account and wait for the issues to be uploaded 6 months later. It means not being able to discuss the issues topically but is paying money for something you dislike better?
Would Marvel see that as a sign to change the writer though or to cancel the series outright? There have been good books cancelled because nobody buys them what would they do to a bad book?
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Re: X-men Gold #21

Post by WorldWideWade » 14 Feb 2018, 21:42

I think it's safe to say that they will keep a flagship X-men title around. In my opinion I would like them to send the O5 back in time, cancel Blue and Gold and relaunch Uncanny X-men with the original numbering.
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