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Iceman #8

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Blackcyclops
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Iceman #8

Post by Blackcyclops » 06 Dec 2017, 22:41

I don’t know how accurate it is, but this book gives me an understandable experience to relate to...
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Gremlin
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Gremlin » 07 Dec 2017, 01:46

“Peter No! That’s my special friend!”

This is the best x-book going.

Plus it looks like the Pyro from X-Men Gold is the real Pyro judging by what Bobby said. Looking forward to seeing what Daken is up to.
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das_boot
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by das_boot » 07 Dec 2017, 09:03

Love this book. As a fellow “late in life” gay, I can relate to this on so many levels.
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Anna Raven
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Anna Raven » 08 Dec 2017, 00:16

I wish they'd start portraying the Drakes as a little less ogre-ish at some point though, it's getting weary watching him try so hard to gain acceptance and just not getting anything back. Or if they just aren't going to change they need to drop the plotline so Bobby can move on.
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Monolith
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Monolith » 08 Dec 2017, 13:51

Well, I mean, it is a remarkably consistent portrayal of those characters.

In the 80's, the Drakes were always trying to get him to leave the Defenders and go back to accounting.
In the 90's, Bobby's dad was openly racist when he was dating Opal Tanaka, and treated Bobby as a failure.

Some people will always be close-minded, and you can never win over. It seems like the plotline is less about getting the Drakes to change, but about getting Bobby to realize they never will.
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das_boot
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by das_boot » 08 Dec 2017, 14:08

Yeah, I mean... Rogue even called them out on it. I think this is an example of a really well-handled plot of the Drakes not being homophobic because they hate gay people and think it’s inherently wrong, but it feels a lot like they don’t understand what Bobby’s going through, and from their point of view? They’re not the ones who’ve changed, he is. They were coming to terms with him being a mutant but him being gay is something else for them to get their head around. As far as they’re concerned, he’s flipping the script on them. Obviously, I’m not saying that their behaviour or opinions are correct, but I think the point that the writer’s trying to make is that yes, there’s a far wider respect for gay rights than ever before, but by NO means is it a universally understood and accepted “lifestyle choice”.

This series is literally attempting to drive home the point that most people will be cool with it if someone should choose to come out as gay. Others? Not so much. It’s not an out and out hate for his sexuality that they’re demonstrating, rather that they just don’t “get it”.
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Gremlin
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Gremlin » 08 Dec 2017, 14:28

I agree. It seems like the Drake's had Bobby's life designed for him when he was born. He was supposed to get a nice job, find a girl to marry and then have kids. First he ditched the job thing when he became a mutant and they struggled to deal with that. Now he come out as gay and put a stop to the find-a-nice-girl plan. What they seem to miss is the fact Bobby does have a job and that's with the X-Men. And whilst he won't marry the girl, he will be able to marry the guy.

I really like this portrayal. More often than not the family members of gay characters in comics are very accepting and it's the random no-names who are shown to be bigots. Having the family members struggle to deal with it is refreshing. And it's not a done-in-one issue but rather a long sub-plot that allows the topic to play out naturally and in many different ways. Iceman is my favourite x-book right now.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Blackcyclops » 08 Dec 2017, 15:14

Perhaps your apprehension Anna comes from the fact yhat Bobby is like one of the few older X-Men with any family left. So I could see how it can make it difficult for their portrayal to gel. Claremont and later writers loved orphans (makes it easier to explain why they’d almost blindly follow Xavier and live at his compound) so Bobby is like the only dude with both parents around and they’re normies (Corsair is a space-pirate, far from normal).
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Anna Raven
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Anna Raven » 08 Dec 2017, 15:46

I definitely see what you are all saying, I guess it just seems like Bobby is banging his head against a wall here over and over and over, it would be nice to see the wall give just a little. Either that or for Bobby to just say, "ok I tried, I'm not going to let my parents make me feel terrible anymore" and move on without them. But I guess he's not the kind of person who can just cut ties with his family, regardless of how cruel they are being to him.

I'm the type of person who doesn't like this type of confrontation, I go out of my way to avoid uncomfortable-ness with my family, it's just a thing we do. So it's not my jam in comics either I guess haha.
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Wings
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Wings » 08 Dec 2017, 17:30

I can defnitely relate better to his parents not having come around on his sexuality yet. My parents are pretty liberal in their attitudes and have plenty of LGBT friends, yet it was still a struggle at first for them to come to terms with me being bisexual, and it had less to do with them having a problem with it and a lot more to do with me having told them something that they didn't know about their own child, that I had kept 'secret' from them. So the Drakes' reaction to Bobby coming out reads very true to me.

I think Bobby Squared storming off is indicative of Bobby realising they're not going to get it. He's already been down this road with them as a mutant and the only reason it seemed he wanted to go to dinner in the first place was to tell them that he was moving across the country and for O5 Iceman's sake.
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das_boot
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by das_boot » 09 Dec 2017, 02:03

Not just that, but I think that part of why his parents are such a big part of this title is to show that it’s BOBBY making the effort. He knows it’s going to be awkward EVERY time, but he wants to make that effort. They think that they’re making equal effort by turning up and trying to show an interest but... yeah. It’s not the same. I think that what’s most important here is that his parents ARE trying. They aren’t villains and they aren’t trying to be awful, they’re just not really sure what they should be doing here.
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AntiBody
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by AntiBody » 09 Dec 2017, 02:37

Anna Raven wrote:
08 Dec 2017, 15:46
I definitely see what you are all saying, I guess it just seems like Bobby is banging his head against a wall here over and over and over, it would be nice to see the wall give just a little. Either that or for Bobby to just say, "ok I tried, I'm not going to let my parents make me feel terrible anymore" and move on without them. But I guess he's not the kind of person who can just cut ties with his family, regardless of how cruel they are being to him.
I understand all of that: not wanting the story to get into uncomfortable territory. What sucks is that this fictitious story is so many peoples' reality. You want the wall to give a little, but it won't. You want Bobby to just forget his parents and move on, but they're his parents. Sometimes there are people you just can't cut out of your life, no matter what they do or who they are (or perhaps because of who they are).

Definitely not saying you shouldn't want the story to be anything it isn't - just that it's very likely there are a lot of folks getting something major out of this. :)
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Anna Raven
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Anna Raven » 09 Dec 2017, 03:56

AntiBody wrote:
09 Dec 2017, 02:37
Anna Raven wrote:
08 Dec 2017, 15:46
I definitely see what you are all saying, I guess it just seems like Bobby is banging his head against a wall here over and over and over, it would be nice to see the wall give just a little. Either that or for Bobby to just say, "ok I tried, I'm not going to let my parents make me feel terrible anymore" and move on without them. But I guess he's not the kind of person who can just cut ties with his family, regardless of how cruel they are being to him.
I understand all of that: not wanting the story to get into uncomfortable territory. What sucks is that this fictitious story is so many peoples' reality. You want the wall to give a little, but it won't. You want Bobby to just forget his parents and move on, but they're his parents. Sometimes there are people you just can't cut out of your life, no matter what they do or who they are (or perhaps because of who they are).

Definitely not saying you shouldn't want the story to be anything it isn't - just that it's very likely there are a lot of folks getting something major out of this. :)
I know, you are 100% right and I definitely appreciate the realism. :) I should really follow my own advice, which is you shouldn't criticize an author or creator because you wanted them to tell a different story. I'll try to keep an open mind, I really like a lot of aspects of this title.
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Daytripper
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Daytripper » 10 Dec 2017, 01:23

I like that the Drakes continue to be portrayed in this way - there are still people like this in today's society.

I always enjoy the interaction between both Bobbys, and hope that this will continue even when older Bobby moves to the West Coast.

Anyone else still waiting for Bobby and Northstar to spend some time together? I know I am. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

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AntiBody
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by AntiBody » 10 Dec 2017, 18:32

Daytripper wrote:
10 Dec 2017, 01:23
Anyone else still waiting for Bobby and Northstar to spend some time together? I know I am. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.
YES, I am!! The Bobby/Jean-Paul thing was a big deal in the early 00's - or at least it was for me cause I had just come out then - so I would REALLY love to see it brought up. Maybe Jean-Paul could even tell Bobby he had a thing for him back then and use some snark to put Bobby in his place a little lol. But yeah I'd like to see Bobby talk to an experienced gay outside of Daken and some character we just met. I think it would do wonders for his story!
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Jesse James II
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Jesse James II » 10 Dec 2017, 23:03

I also think Hercules should have brought this up... given how he would not understand the fuss surrounding Bobby's sexuality. He had a thing going on with Northstar and talked to Snowbird after having sex with not yo be ashamed about as as their ancestors would not inly lay with women and men, but also with their next of kin and animals... 😂

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tokenBG1009
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by tokenBG1009 » 12 Dec 2017, 03:54

Daytripper wrote:
10 Dec 2017, 01:23
I like that the Drakes continue to be portrayed in this way - there are still people like this in today's society.

I always enjoy the interaction between both Bobbys, and hope that this will continue even when older Bobby moves to the West Coast.

Anyone else still waiting for Bobby and Northstar to spend some time together? I know I am. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.
Marvel has always prided itself on telling stories in the real world. I'm not sure I'd enjoy the story if Bobby's parents just flipped like a switch.
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Anna Raven
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Anna Raven » 12 Dec 2017, 04:29

Well hey hold on, I never said flipped like a switch.
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tokenBG1009
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by tokenBG1009 » 12 Dec 2017, 13:09

Anna Raven wrote:
12 Dec 2017, 04:29
Well hey hold on, I never said flipped like a switch.
I was generalizing, sorry about that!
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Anna Raven
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Re: Iceman #8

Post by Anna Raven » 12 Dec 2017, 14:36

Haha it's ok, yeh I'd just like to see them sloooowly become less racist and homophobic haha. All staying in character of course.
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