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Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by EphemeristX » 19 Feb 2020, 23:00

Okay, that looks pretty damn cool.
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Aeon » 19 Feb 2020, 23:02

Meanwhile the UK veterans wait until somebody knows what to do with them

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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by P-90 » 19 Feb 2020, 23:12

Ooooh this both excites and worries me, on the one hand Britain could always use some new heroes and given that those that already exist rarely get used I hope this becomes successful enough that it peaks interest in British characters. On the other hand given the team name and the nationalities of these new characters I hope it's not too political, I for one am utterly bored with politics, some old fashioned escapist fun would make a nice change of pace.
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Blackcyclops » 19 Feb 2020, 23:28

If you find any time where escapist fun existed, I’d love to see it too because everything has been and will continue to be political. What changes, is whether or not those political things are on your radar or not...Golden, Silver and Bronze Age comics were all political...
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by P-90 » 20 Feb 2020, 00:12

Blackcyclops wrote:
19 Feb 2020, 23:28
If you find any time where escapist fun existed, I’d love to see it too because everything has been and will continue to be political. What changes, is whether or not those political things are on your radar or not...Golden, Silver and Bronze Age comics were all political...
I was actually speaking specifically about Brexit, the name of the team and the fact that the characters seem to each be from one of the nations that make up the UK worries me that the book could become part of the Brexit bullshit we've had to put up with constantly for over four years. As I've stated before politics has it's place, it always has, but there's no need to preach and browbeat, just remember that comic books are first and foremost about entertainment, fun and superhero adventure with a hint of politics is welcome but unrelenting politics with just a hint of superhero adventure is not.

Also it would depend on the political argument, the X-Men being a thinly veiled comment on the civil rights movement and equality is acceptable, a writer using the platform to for personal use, to bitch about an viewpoint/opinion different from their own, or a democratic decision that unfortunately for them didn't go their way is not (something such as Brexit, which I didn't vote for by the way)
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Blackcyclops » 20 Feb 2020, 00:35

I mean that’s really about taste and personal views...like I said above, everything is political (even omission of an overtly political message is a political choice and says something about a person or companies politics) and what really matters is whether or not it grabs your attention. Golden Age comics promoted political messages (Westerns pushed messages on race and morality, romance pushed ideas about sexuality and scifi is rife with political messages) and comics were never apolitical (not even sure if apolitical is an actual thing).

Some people can (and have) argued that the X-Men promoting equality among the races or about sexual orientation is browbeating and pushing one writer’s political view too...

I mean I get if the message isn’t your cup of tea and that you don’t want to see it. But it would be foolish to act as though it’s not something that happens every single time somebody creates a piece of work. And its fine to acknowledge that you don’t want to receive a message you disagree with or you’re tired of debating or refuting those messages...it doesn’t make anyone a good or bad person.
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by P-90 » 20 Feb 2020, 01:16

Blackcyclops wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 00:35
I mean that’s really about taste and personal views...like I said above, everything is political (even omission of an overtly political message is a political choice and says something about a person or companies politics) and what really matters is whether or not it grabs your attention. Golden Age comics promoted political messages (Westerns pushed messages on race and morality, romance pushed ideas about sexuality and scifi is rife with political messages) and comics were never apolitical (not even sure if apolitical is an actual thing).

Some people can (and have) argued that the X-Men promoting equality among the races or about sexual orientation is browbeating and pushing one writer’s political view too...

I mean I get if the message isn’t your cup of tea and that you don’t want to see it. But it would be foolish to act as though it’s not something that happens every single time somebody creates a piece of work. And its fine to acknowledge that you don’t want to receive a message you disagree with or you’re tired of debating or refuting those messages...it doesn’t make anyone a good or bad person.
I just hope that any politics involved comes a distant second to the superhero action. Political debate is not why I read comics, I know there will be those who enjoy that aspect of the medium but personally, that's not what it's about for me. There will be exceptions but the majority of people read comics purely for their entertainment value, a big part of that is being able to escape from the political drudgery of the real world.
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Blackcyclops » 20 Feb 2020, 01:40

P-90 wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 01:16
Blackcyclops wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 00:35
I mean that’s really about taste and personal views...like I said above, everything is political (even omission of an overtly political message is a political choice and says something about a person or companies politics) and what really matters is whether or not it grabs your attention. Golden Age comics promoted political messages (Westerns pushed messages on race and morality, romance pushed ideas about sexuality and scifi is rife with political messages) and comics were never apolitical (not even sure if apolitical is an actual thing).

Some people can (and have) argued that the X-Men promoting equality among the races or about sexual orientation is browbeating and pushing one writer’s political view too...

I mean I get if the message isn’t your cup of tea and that you don’t want to see it. But it would be foolish to act as though it’s not something that happens every single time somebody creates a piece of work. And its fine to acknowledge that you don’t want to receive a message you disagree with or you’re tired of debating or refuting those messages...it doesn’t make anyone a good or bad person.
I just hope that any politics involved comes a distant second to the superhero action. Political debate is not why I read comics, I know there will be those who enjoy that aspect of the medium but personally, that's not what it's about for me. There will be exceptions but the majority of people read comics purely for their entertainment value, a big part of that is being able to escape from the political drudgery of the real world.
I agree insofar that most people read superhero comics for the entertainment they bring them but (and I hope I’m being clear here) we can’t act as though that entertainment is somehow free of politics. That somehow a good guy (who gets labeled as the good guy and what they do they is political) beating up a bad guy (again, it’s political picking who is or isnt the bad guy and what their bad actions are) is somehow an escape from reality isnt fully true. And to ask that of a medium is impossible because as long as comics are made by people with social and political beliefs and views, there beliefs and views will be found in that work. Sometimes it’s overt like a Mark Millar but most of the time it’s not but it’s very much still there...

And when someone says they want politics out of something, they mean they don’t want the politics they disagree with involved or having to engage with the ones they do agree with. Which again, is fine and something a person can want...but this whole “comics should just be fun” thing is bordering on the absurd because they have never been “just fun”, politics are intertwined in anything a human makes.

Now will this book be devoid of overt politics? I don’t know but if the writer is actually from the UK it’s probably impossible for an adult from that country to write anything and not have some of the current politics in their work...it’s in the milieu of the moment.
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by EphemeristX » 20 Feb 2020, 04:06

Art is a direct reflection of the current goings-on of the world. Always has been. But, I don't know why "The Union" would trigger a knee-jerk response about Brexit when the UK itself is a union and the four new characters each represent a different part of the UK -- England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. Characters look sick, though.
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by P-90 » 20 Feb 2020, 05:48

EphemeristX wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 04:06
Art is a direct reflection of the current goings-on of the world. Always has been. But, I don't know why "The Union" would trigger a knee-jerk response about Brexit when the UK itself is a union and the four new characters each represent a different part of the UK -- England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. Characters look sick, though.
Those that want to leave the union have used the Brexit result as a rallying cry, none more so that the SNP (Scottish National Party). The Scots voted to remain part of the union, they were told it was going to be a once in a lifetime vote but the SNP almost immediately began to call for another and have since used Brexit as the primary excuse for that second vote. The SNP are constantly calling on the Westminster government to grant permission for another referendum (so they can overturn the result of the previous vote) and then accusing the government of 'denying democracy' when the government denies the request (in honour of that result), it's all hugely hypocritical.

Funnily enough prior to the referendum there was an unofficial poll regarding the Scots leaving and a higher percentage of those in England voted for them to leave than they did in Scotland.
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Spectral Knight » 20 Feb 2020, 06:34

So as a Brit, I should love this right?

Nope... seriously, did every character have to have a national tie-in? Also, the medieval theming of the characters feels a bit Knights of Pendragon for me. With an array of great British characters that don't have "Country of Origin" stamped on their costume, this feels a bit of a step back for me into parochial views of Blighty compared to the joys of Connell's MI13 for example.

Please, please someone give McKelvie and Gillen a Marvel Brit team assignment!

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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by EphemeristX » 20 Feb 2020, 06:53

*has a team about America*

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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Wings » 20 Feb 2020, 09:00

I don't mind the nationality aspect just because it means we finally get more rep for Wales and an Northern Irish hero (who hopefully doesn't need to have some kind of IRA-linked back story like Siryn, Banshee,Shamrock, every other Irish/Northern Irish character etc).

I also think with the current Brexit stuff and a literal cultural embodiment of Britain on the team, that investigating what Britishness/United Kingdom-Ness means to these characters is kinda important and interesting and is what's going to help this book stand out from the plethora of team books Marvel is currently publishing, and set it apart (and maybe in opposition to?) from Excalibur. The UK books have always had a healthy dose of politicking involved, even back in the beginning. Communities in NI would have a reaction to an NI hero on a team called "The Union", and I think this comic should reflect that.
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Spectral Knight » 20 Feb 2020, 09:31

I don't mind the political aspects as long as it is handled sensitively. For all the talk of the end of the Troubles, it was only this week where police have warned of a potential bombing by dissident Republicans.

The nationality aspect is more annoying from a crude national stereotyping perspective. Whilst you're right in that it'd be interesting to look at what means to be British, I just hope it doesn't use each character's national identity to colour what this means, i.e. this is the Scots' view, this is the Welsh view etc. It should be more nuanced than that. Also I think it's a little tiresome to be a national emblem in terms of future developments and where they can go from there.

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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by P-90 » 22 Feb 2020, 02:57

Spectral Knight wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 09:31
I don't mind the political aspects as long as it is handled sensitively. For all the talk of the end of the Troubles, it was only this week where police have warned of a potential bombing by dissident Republicans.

The nationality aspect is more annoying from a crude national stereotyping perspective. Whilst you're right in that it'd be interesting to look at what means to be British, I just hope it doesn't use each character's national identity to colour what this means, i.e. this is the Scots' view, this is the Welsh view etc. It should be more nuanced than that. Also I think it's a little tiresome to be a national emblem in terms of future developments and where they can go from there.
I just Googled the comic for more info and the majority of links are to posts reporting Scots kicking off about it, some have even called for a boycott :lol:
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Gibbering Fool » 22 Feb 2020, 05:38

When I saw the original group image I genuinely thought there was a character that was a Lion's head in a floating orb. I now realise it's just Britannia's shield :?

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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Jesse James II » 22 Feb 2020, 06:11

I sincery think a floating lion's head would be more intriguing the this Wonder Woman from Coronation Street 🤷‍♂️

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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Spectral Knight » 22 Feb 2020, 08:05

P-90 wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 02:57
Spectral Knight wrote:
20 Feb 2020, 09:31
I don't mind the political aspects as long as it is handled sensitively. For all the talk of the end of the Troubles, it was only this week where police have warned of a potential bombing by dissident Republicans.

The nationality aspect is more annoying from a crude national stereotyping perspective. Whilst you're right in that it'd be interesting to look at what means to be British, I just hope it doesn't use each character's national identity to colour what this means, i.e. this is the Scots' view, this is the Welsh view etc. It should be more nuanced than that. Also I think it's a little tiresome to be a national emblem in terms of future developments and where they can go from there.
I just Googled the comic for more info and the majority of links are to posts reporting Scots kicking off about it, some have even called for a boycott :lol:
To be fair if the Scots character drank Buckie like it's water, plants a Glasgow kiss on anyone that comes near her, and talks in a Rabb C Nesbitt dialect, my opinion on this would change. Instant mark for her. Doubt it'll happen though :(

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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Feb 2020, 11:30

That wouldn’t be fair SK lol...
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Spectral Knight » 22 Feb 2020, 16:08

True, but it'd be soooooo good though. :D

I also realise most non-British posters on here would have no idea on what Buckie is, nor who Rab is either. I guess the phrase Glasgow Kiss is fairly well known though, right??

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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Feb 2020, 17:18

Yes....very well known if you’ve ever watched a mobster or gangsta film
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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Spectral Knight » 23 Feb 2020, 20:05

Really? Glasgow Kiss is used in gangsta movies? Not sure if I am pleased or disappointed ;)

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Re: Marvel Introduces a new British Team of heroes during Empyre

Post by Anna Raven » 23 Feb 2020, 22:20

Hmm I've watched a lot of gangster movies and never heard any of those phrases, so I guess BC watches way different ones than me. Most of the ones I watch are about the typical Italian mafia...
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