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X-Men #17

Found some news out about the X-Men, Avengers, Batman or even? The monthly previews have been released ? Or perhaps there's a rumour you've heard, then post it here for the world to see.
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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by norwichchris » 10 Jan 2021, 18:30

So what did they actually say? don't obviously mention it on her but would like a link possibly?

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das_boot
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by das_boot » 11 Jan 2021, 17:21

Go to google.

Type in “Brett Booth controversial tweets”.

Hit “search”.

Perhaps also go to the image search tab and check that too.

Honestly, I have no idea what I can tell you other than he’s a misogynist, anti-Semitic and anti-Islam, but glad I could teach you how to use google, I guess 🤷‍♂️
X-Centric podcast: coming soon!

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_Rick_
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by _Rick_ » 11 Jan 2021, 18:50

das_boot wrote:
11 Jan 2021, 17:21
Go to google.

Type in “Brett Booth controversial tweets”.

Hit “search”.

Perhaps also go to the image search tab and check that too.

Honestly, I have no idea what I can tell you other than he’s a misogynist, anti-Semitic and anti-Islam, but glad I could teach you how to use google, I guess 🤷‍♂️
Hum... I have to be honest das... as much as I appreciate the "Oh snap" nature of your response... I can't find it either. I'm by no means doubting you or any other person here, but I googled several variations of "Brett Both misogyny" "Brett Both anti-Semitic" "Brett Both tweets women" and saw nothing that seem to match.

I now followed your instructions to the letter... and still nothing. I got "controversial" tweets about dinosaurs (apparently the man is a paleoartist), about business practices at DC vs Marvel regarding art pages and other stuff that is not relevant or not even about him but other people with similar names. The closest I could find (after clicking 20 links) was an article with tweets about a parody of the Mockingbird feminist cover where he calls out people for promoting violence against women and makes fun of comicsgate people for their hypocrisy about not wanting politics in comics but then defending art mocking other people's politics. I'm guessing that's not what you're referring to either.

One thing that people tend to forget about google results is that they're catered to the individual. Your results will vary depending on location, past search and browsing history, being logged in to a google account at the time, etc. I think that's what is happening here. It's possible that when you type those things, they take you to the controversy because you followed those tweets and read those articles in the past. But for people like myself (and I'm guessing norwichchris) that might not have followed what happened at the time, they end up being buried by other stuff.


And in the end, that probably answers the question about the diference in treatment. When I type "Syaf" (even just by itself) I immediately get hits to anti-Semitic and anti-Christian takes and dozens of articles about the issue that originated the controversy. The image search results are of the Guggenheim x-men issue. I don't even have to follow the links since it's right there on the description. Even his wiki page details the controversy. Both's wiki doesn't mention it and the images search tab doesn't have anything (apart from the Mockingbird example that I gave earlier). Syaf's name is just associated to bad stuff now. Both's name isn't.

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Cable
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by Cable » 11 Jan 2021, 19:11

This is an example of what people are referring to in regards to islamophobic content on his blog. He seems anti-religious in general.
Spoiler: show
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ek9XAWSXYAE ... ame=medium
Spoiler: show
Best Comics of Week 2

X-titles: SWORD #2 by Al Ewing (1) and Valerio Schiti (1)
Non-X titles: King in Black Thunderbolts #1 by Matthew Rosenberg (1) and Juan Ferreyra (1)

In parentheses number of times creator has had best comic of the week this year

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_Rick_
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by _Rick_ » 11 Jan 2021, 19:38

Thanks Cable. I wasn't getting anything even close to that in the search results. It does come across as teen edgy atheist stuff (but from an adult). I looked a bit more into his blog and it seems to have a "religion" tab. He does seem to be an equal opportunity ofender at least since the first entries I saw have him mock the "religious right", Christians and the Bible.

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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by norwichchris » 11 Jan 2021, 20:56

Ahh.... that's a bit more sense know he was referring to the anti-Muslim film and the backlash and riots that ensued. Understand why people were deeply offended by his comments but to me they were more felt anti-religious than racist which is just as bad really.

I hope it wasn't to stir up controversy as if it is should just read them all online if you have too for free. :)

Sorry Das was actually at work and had a long nasty shift - 12 hours with nothing to do.... bluntly speaking feel pissed off with it know!!

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das_boot
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by das_boot » 11 Jan 2021, 23:07

_Rick_ wrote:
11 Jan 2021, 18:50
das_boot wrote:
11 Jan 2021, 17:21
Go to google.

Type in “Brett Booth controversial tweets”.

Hit “search”.

Perhaps also go to the image search tab and check that too.

Honestly, I have no idea what I can tell you other than he’s a misogynist, anti-Semitic and anti-Islam, but glad I could teach you how to use google, I guess 🤷‍♂️
Hum... I have to be honest das... as much as I appreciate the "Oh snap" nature of your response... I can't find it either. I'm by no means doubting you or any other person here, but I googled several variations of "Brett Both misogyny" "Brett Both anti-Semitic" "Brett Both tweets women" and saw nothing that seem to match.

I now followed your instructions to the letter... and still nothing. I got "controversial" tweets about dinosaurs (apparently the man is a paleoartist), about business practices at DC vs Marvel regarding art pages and other stuff that is not relevant or not even about him but other people with similar names. The closest I could find (after clicking 20 links) was an article with tweets about a parody of the Mockingbird feminist cover where he calls out people for promoting violence against women and makes fun of comicsgate people for their hypocrisy about not wanting politics in comics but then defending art mocking other people's politics. I'm guessing that's not what you're referring to either.

One thing that people tend to forget about google results is that they're catered to the individual. Your results will vary depending on location, past search and browsing history, being logged in to a google account at the time, etc. I think that's what is happening here. It's possible that when you type those things, they take you to the controversy because you followed those tweets and read those articles in the past. But for people like myself (and I'm guessing norwichchris) that might not have followed what happened at the time, they end up being buried by other stuff.


And in the end, that probably answers the question about the diference in treatment. When I type "Syaf" (even just by itself) I immediately get hits to anti-Semitic and anti-Christian takes and dozens of articles about the issue that originated the controversy. The image search results are of the Guggenheim x-men issue. I don't even have to follow the links since it's right there on the description. Even his wiki page details the controversy. Both's wiki doesn't mention it and the images search tab doesn't have anything (apart from the Mockingbird example that I gave earlier). Syaf's name is just associated to bad stuff now. Both's name isn't.
While I appreciate that you appreciate the “oh snap” comments, in all the examples you gave in response, you spelled his name wrong; perhaps why you weren’t getting any hits? Brett Booth, not Brett Both.

The example Cable gave was a VERY tame example compared to some of the other stuff I’ve seen. Specifically, the fact that he encouraged people to leave horrific responses to a female comic writer/critic’s survey asking women for their experiences of sexual harassment within the comics community. If he’s encouraging people to do it, I’d imagine he was also leaving comments, including those that encouraged sexual violence against the author of the post. You can read about that here (first post that came up when I googled “Brett Booth misogynist”)

https://gimpnelly.tumblr.com/post/8270 ... -women-in

There’s also this stream of tweets that I found by googling “Brett Booth anti-religion”
https://twitter.com/RobertSecundus/sta ... 3080815616

There are several threads available on Reddit that explain the situation, and CBR have actually made a post explaining that some of their writers have refused to review the issue because of him being on it.

Again, I’d apologise for the sarcasm that my previous post was dripping in, and appreciate the attempt to point out I was maybe a little overly snarky, Rick, but I’m getting to the explanation here.


NorwichChris. I’m having a VERY hard time taking you seriously of late. I appreciate you might have been at work etc, but several of your recent posts that I’ve responded to have either been you repeating someone else’s post/theory from previous weeks, or have been you asking a question that’s either easily googled or has, in fact, already been answered a few posts prior. And don’t get me wrong, sometimes there’ll be a really long post, or several long posts that I, personally, couldn’t be bothered to read... but it’s a pattern here. Apologies for the snark, but honestly, could you PLEASE start paying attention to what people are saying on here? Once or twice is understandable, but this is a pattern with you.
X-Centric podcast: coming soon!

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_Rick_
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by _Rick_ » 12 Jan 2021, 00:06

Thanks for the links. It's possible that I misspelled his name in previous searches and that explains some of it (my bad). Still, in my last attempt (following your instructions) I know I used your spelling because I selected the keywords directly from your post instead of typing them out myself. To give another example, when I googled “Brett Booth misogynist” right now, your link is not the first post. I had to go to the second page of google results to find it (though some of the results of the first page mention the right controversy this time rather than the Mockingbird one).
I should note that I'm currently in an EU country so maybe the data protection laws also affect the searches (beyond the other stuff I mentioned).

Seeing those tweets (and blog posts), I get why some people aren't happy. The kindest way of putting it would be "really unprofessional". I'm always amazed by what some people are willing to place on twitter in association with the same profile they use for work. It does bring up the question of where the line is drawn. For me the clear line in the sand that cannot be crossed is placing it on the page (the Syaf stuff was clear to me) but I really can't blame anyone for skipping Booth's work. The only reason I don't think it should be an automatic blacklist is because it will never be applied equally. If nothing else, the foreign artists that Marvel hires say a bunch of stuff in other languages that I'm sure gets missed. I've seen some of it. Many are highly political. There's no way Marvel would be able to keep up with it all (and approach it with the necessary understanding of different cultural sensitivities).

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das_boot
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by das_boot » 12 Jan 2021, 17:11

My issue with just labelling it as “highly unprofessional” would be the nature of the threats that the female critic received in response to his clap back at her included those of sexual violence— I can’t claim to know Booth’s mind, but when there are posters here who have found tweets of his denouncing the vile stuff said by Comicsgate towards women in the industry, to then actively give some of those same people another target? Whether intentionally or not, he simply cannot claim ignorance of what would happen to her, nor can I see him criticising any male reviewers who said similar. Furthermore, I believe this was at the height of female creators telling their stories of harassment within the industry, which, again, he could NOT have been ignorant of. In an era where the Big Two are actively trying to encourage diversity among their creators and their characters, it just seems like SUCH a step backwards to then hire an artist who unashamedly seeks to court controversy against anything that promotes diversity.

Further to that, Hickman has commented on diversity and its importance in comics. I’d argue that his work on X-Men, including the inclusion of polyamory, hinting at pansexual/bisexual themes, bringing two female writers and a non-binary POC writer on board, a title like X-Factor with a lot of explicitly LGBTQ/ LGBTQ coded characters... it’s probably the most diverse we’ve seen the X-Line ever. But it just screams of tokenism when he brings aboard an artist, at his own request, who openly mocks and belittles those things, as well as someone who is critical of publishers in trying to court a wider demographic (ie; gain more female readers, specifically) and not cater specifically and solely to men.
X-Centric podcast: coming soon!

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norwichchris
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by norwichchris » 12 Jan 2021, 17:43

das_boot wrote:
11 Jan 2021, 23:07
NorwichChris. I’m having a VERY hard time taking you seriously of late. I appreciate you might have been at work etc, but several of your recent posts that I’ve responded to have either been you repeating someone else’s post/theory from previous weeks, or have been you asking a question that’s either easily googled or has, in fact, already been answered a few posts prior. And don’t get me wrong, sometimes there’ll be a really long post, or several long posts that I, personally, couldn’t be bothered to read... but it’s a pattern here. Apologies for the snark, but honestly, could you PLEASE start paying attention to what people are saying on here? Once or twice is understandable, but this is a pattern with you.
You are correct and my apologise have recently started a new job reluctantly but find it really does not agree with me long hours and the drive is a bit too much making me a bit stressed out and frustrated.

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XtremeOne1
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by XtremeOne1 » 12 Jan 2021, 18:22

Also, it's one thing to be 'anti' religious(and I say this as someone who is 100% not religious) but to continuious make remarks about "Muslim Extremists" and mentioning "The Jew Extremist, you aren't just being anti-religion, you're promoting fear and hate. Hell even the wording of "The Jew Extremist" is pretty anti-Semitic.

This is something only BC(or other Community fans would appreciate)

Image

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Blackcyclops
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by Blackcyclops » 12 Jan 2021, 19:02

i miss early Community...
Morrison Era 2001-2005, Decimation Era from 2005-2012, Bendis Era 2012-2016, M-Pox era 2016-2017, and Resurrxion 2017-2019, Hickman Era 2019-?

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Milkshake08
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by Milkshake08 » 14 Jan 2021, 03:03

Another example that I'll try to find for you guys - a female comic reviewer reviewed a Teen Titans cover (art) poorly, and in the review, she mentioned that the main focal point of the cover was a 16 year old Wonder Girl who's positioned sexually and has anime-gag sized breasts. A bunch of comicsgaters then proceeded to harass her online and give her death threats, and the artist encouraged it and was amplified by Booth, who disagreed with the reviewer. One of the quotes I remember reading was "Sexism doesn't exist in comics" and that's what raised my eyes. Then I read the story das posted and that's all I really needed.

And das, great point. If I was one of the other creators on this larger X-team, I'd be a bit offended if my boss fought to bring in a guy who basically dismisses my work and the need for or validity of my viewpoint in the comics industry.

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das_boot
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Re: X-Men #17

Post by das_boot » 14 Jan 2021, 11:28

Honestly, anyone who says sexism doesn’t exist in comics isn’t paying attention. All you have to do is check Twitter the day after an issue of Excalibur, X-Factor, Captain Marvel... anything written by a woman. Hell, look at the stuff that was levelled against Vita Ayala (instigated by Leifeld, I might add) because they identify as non-binary.

If I were any of the female/NB writers or artists on the X-Line right now I would be PISSED.
X-Centric podcast: coming soon!

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