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Cyclops and Havok's grandparents

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Rincewind
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Re: Cyclops and Havok's grandparents

Post by Rincewind » 23 Dec 2017, 19:04

Nu-D wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 16:39
But Sinister's failure to change the boys names, and Xavier's failure to try to find Scott's family, are still glaring plot holes, no matter how you look at it.
I've recently been watching early episodes of Dark Shadows (it was on my Netflix Recommended list), and one of the characters, Victoria Winters, is an orphan. It's mentioned the last name is due to the time of year at which she was found. Jon Snow is of a similar vein. So, "Summers" could've been a name along those lines. (Yes, I know that's not the case; just the crazy ramblings of an online weirdo).
Many people who had got to know Rincewind had come to treat him as a sort of two-legged miner's canary, and tended to assume that if Rincewind was still upright and not actually running then some hope remained.

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Nu-D
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Re: Cyclops and Havok's grandparents

Post by Nu-D » 24 Dec 2017, 13:13

Rincewind wrote:
23 Dec 2017, 19:04
Nu-D wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 16:39
But Sinister's failure to change the boys names, and Xavier's failure to try to find Scott's family, are still glaring plot holes, no matter how you look at it.
I've recently been watching early episodes of Dark Shadows (it was on my Netflix Recommended list), and one of the characters, Victoria Winters, is an orphan. It's mentioned the last name is due to the time of year at which she was found. Jon Snow is of a similar vein. So, "Summers" could've been a name along those lines. (Yes, I know that's not the case; just the crazy ramblings of an online weirdo).
In English (and perhaps Germanic?) tradition dating back to the Middle Ages and before, surnames often were assigned related to circumstance...seasonal birth, the trade of the aperant, the first name of a parent, or other circumstance. owever, since at least the colonization of the Americas, the English-language tradition among EuropeanxAmericans has been simply to adopt the surname of the male parent as-is.

Scott & Alex share a surname with their father, Christopher Summers, who shares a surname with his father, Philip Summers. It is probable that they merely follow the custom of most EuropeanxAmericans and we’re assigned at birth their fathers’ surname. It is unlikely that each of them was born in the summer and given that surname independently. Though it is quite possible that some ancestor received the surname of the season of his birth many generations ago.

None of which would explain why Sinister didn’t try to hide Scott and Alex in the orphanage by changing their names.

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RingOtaku
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Re: Cyclops and Havok's grandparents

Post by RingOtaku » 24 Dec 2017, 15:22

I think we overthink this. Summers is kind of a common surname. The grandparents were told by law enforcement the kids were dead for many good reasons. There was no reason to send detectives to look through every orphanage in America "just in case". Pre-Internet when that kind of research had to be done by professionals that's a lot of money to invest that the grandparents probably didn't have.

By the time Xavier came around, Scott was away from the orphanage with unclear memories and had long ago given up on the idea of having a biological family. He probably didn't bring it up until Alex and neither one of them thought a lot about grandparents they never knew for Xavier to "accidentally surface psi-scan" and go "Hey let's do something about this. When we aren't training or saving the world."

The State wouldn't have done it because Sinister himself ran the orphanage and no doubt forged records to prevent a paper trail from leading to "some old folks in Alaska."
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Nu-D
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Re: Cyclops and Havok's grandparents

Post by Nu-D » 24 Dec 2017, 16:18

RingOtaku wrote:
24 Dec 2017, 15:22
...no doubt forged records to prevent a paper trail from leading to "some old folks in Alaska."
The first thing you would do when forging paperwork to hide the origin of an orphan is change the surname. That's the single most basic step you take, but Sinister did not.

It's a plot hole.

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_Rick_
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Re: Cyclops and Havok's grandparents

Post by _Rick_ » 26 Dec 2017, 16:17

Nu-D wrote:
24 Dec 2017, 13:13
Scott & Alex share a surname with their father, Christopher Summers, who shares a surname with his father, Philip Summers. It is probable that they merely follow the custom of most EuropeanxAmericans and we’re assigned at birth their fathers’ surname. It is unlikely that each of them was born in the summer and given that surname independently. Though it is quite possible that some ancestor received the surname of the season of his birth many generations ago.

None of which would explain why Sinister didn’t try to hide Scott and Alex in the orphanage by changing their names.
We actually know the ancestors that first adopted the name Summers and why they did it. Ironically, it actually does explain somewhat why Sinister didn't change their names.

The ancestors' names were Oscar and Daniel. Oscar was a reformed Marauder and Daniel a boy that a scientist named Essex took an interest in was back in the 19th Century when he was conducting experiments on London's most unfortunate to test evolutionary theories. Two time travelers were sent by the Clan Askani supposedly to prevent Essex from becoming Sinister after Apocalypse took an interest. They failed but ended up saving the prisioners, including the boy. Oscar and Daniel went to the US, posed as father and son, and adopted the last name Summers to honor the heroes that enabled their escape. Those people were Scott and Jean Summers (this happened during the "Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix"). Turns out that this was Askani's plan all along. Scott and Jean proved Sinister theories right and made him obsessed with their bloodlines. It was also the "start" of the Summers family line (which Sinister further messed with by having Amanda Mueller (a mutant) marry Daniel later on. Amanda and Daniel are Philip Summers paternal grandparents.

So in conclusion, due to a time loop shenanigans, there would be no point in Sinister changing Scott's name because adult Scott is the one that inspired the name in the first place. Changing the name would only result in the family name being retroactively changed as well.

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Nu-D
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Re: Cyclops and Havok's grandparents

Post by Nu-D » 27 Dec 2017, 11:56

Well there you have it. A great big whopping time travel retcon to fix what was a minor plot hole created by another still-whopping but not quite as much retcon.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Cyclops and Havok's grandparents

Post by Blackcyclops » 27 Dec 2017, 13:45

I loved that mini-series
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Rincewind
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Re: Cyclops and Havok's grandparents

Post by Rincewind » 27 Dec 2017, 15:55

Ugh, time travel gives me such a headache sometimes. And I thought "Future Echoes" (the Red Dwarf episode) was a pain.
Many people who had got to know Rincewind had come to treat him as a sort of two-legged miner's canary, and tended to assume that if Rincewind was still upright and not actually running then some hope remained.

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Cyclops and Havok's grandparents

Post by Blackcyclops » 27 Dec 2017, 18:06

It’s.just a simple time paradox situation...well as simple as a time paradox.
I'm Team Remender, Waid, Hickman and Gillen

My X-Men Draft Picks:
Prof. X, Legion, Polaris, Quicksilver, Meggan, Deadpool, Pixie, and Danger

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