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Draft Discussion Thread

Want to invite new players to your role-playing/ Draft / Betrayal game?Needing help starting one? want to join one? This is the place to talk and participate
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Lavettye
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Lavettye » 13 Dec 2020, 19:40

Maybe me, or maybe a Betrayal Game by booty (see other thread) if we start alternating between drafts and BGs.
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WorldWideWade
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by WorldWideWade » 14 Dec 2020, 16:31

With Drafts of Vengeance completed it seems like the consensus is that SpectralKnights Avengers Generations will be next, then Alpha Flight speed draft followed by BlackCyclops Krakoa-like draft (Black Cyclops if you have a more official title you want me to put on the front page let me know).

Is this the correct order?

Also there was something about a Betrayal game. Is that before or after Generations on Jan 4? I don't think I'll track those games on this thread since I think it should be Draft focused.
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das_boot
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by das_boot » 15 Dec 2020, 07:58

Totally agree, this should be for drafts.

I only brought up the BG after talking with a few people about it privately and wanted to see if there would be much interest— they used to be very popular and I didn’t know whether slightly reduced numbers for a few of the drafts were due to burn out or not, and thought maybe it could be a good alternative if we switched between the two, but if there’s no interest for them, I totally understand that, the BG can be far more intensive in terms of role play than a draft :)
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Dec 2020, 14:15

I’m debating between Krakoa II Draft or the Post X of Swords draft
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Cable
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Cable » 15 Dec 2020, 14:30

Put me on the list after BC. I have my next idea and I don't know how to do it but hopefully I will by then lol
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by das_boot » 26 Jan 2021, 08:07

Friends, I have a confession to make.

Since I noticed some stark similarities between the initial posts on the forum of the users Aeon and Sequoia, I’ve been watching carefully. Both mentioned having done Star Trek drafts previously, which seemed oddly specific to me. I remember Omnicon and Aeon have mentioned previously that they knew one another prior to joining here, through other forums that they’ve used. I knew UrbanExplorer showed up around the time that JazzKantine got into several arguments with people on the forums, and that if you want the full truth, I’ve actually defended JK privately because I suspected it could have been a language/interpretation issue, not to mention that I knew JK as someone who used the site way back when I was first writing fan fiction and I wanted to believe the best in him, but I’d long suspected that JK and UE were the same person, especially when UE mentioned an oddly specific cosplay they had previously done that I KNEW was JazzKantine.

So you can imagine my surprise when I used the admin function to see which IP addresses people had used (especially given that our dear Omnicon has previously left the forum for an extended period of time due to disputes on other parts of the forum, and that Omnicon was passing messages on to other users on behalf of Aeon after the other user had fallen out with Aeon behind the scenes, which I was told about privately)— and discovered that Omnicon and Aeon have used the same IP address despite allegedly being some 519 km apart from one another.

But what’s this? A thickening of the plot?!

A deeper inspection showed that the rest of these forum members named above, despite claiming to be from different areas of Europe, have all used IP addresses registered to the same town in Austria, which is odd, because none of these users have mentioned actually knowing one another in real life, and only Omnicon and JK have mentioned living in Austria. Sequoia states that they live in France. For comparison, I’ve checked my own historic IP addresses against those of people that I know have lived within fifty miles of me at some point or another, just to see if there was the possibility that there could be some kind of geographical mix up happening and no. Not the case. I’ve also looked at instances where I’ve used a VPN and I’ve never had the same IP address twice, so for SEVEN profiles to have the same IP address using the same VPN, I find very unlikely.

I posit, dear friends, that one of the following situations is therefore likely:
-Aeon has been using Omnicon’s profile to access the site and to interact with people he knows he’s annoyed, and that Omnicon has several other profiles on here.
-Aeon, Omnicon and JazzKantine have multiple profiles on the forum and share the spares around.
-These people are ALL the same person and pass a precursory investigation into this by having Facebook profiles linked to at least two of their accounts.

Now, while I have to admit, at first I thought it was just weird, but the more I thought about it, the more I got annoyed. There have been many drafts where several of these profiles have been playing, and I know that Aeon has reached out to people previously to discuss tactics... but that then means that whomever has spoken to Aeon hasn’t just discussed tactics with Aeon, but with up to another FOUR profiles (stand out being the Krakoa draft where five of these personalities were among the players). Whilst largely this isn’t really a problem, when there’s elements like blind picks for other players (such as in Cable’s recent draft, which featured FOUR of these players, and while I could probably figure it out, I have no desire to scroll through and figure out who picked for whom in that draft and whether they essentially picked for one another). It’s just a bit cheap that essentially one player gets four picks per round...


So I have a series of questions here for Aeomnijazzseqfolkforceexplorer:
-Why?
-At what point did you think that it was acceptable to break the forum rule of not having multiple profiles in use at the same time? (Not knowing the rules not being a defence, as an FYI BTW. It’s not as though they’re hidden).
-At what point did you think it was fair to the other players and the hosts of the game to cheat all of us?
And finally, to quote Oprah:
-What IS the truth?

Listen, I GET lockdown/quarantine/isolation has been tough. We discuss it enough in Random Thoughts. But this is a safe space for a LOT of the posters here. This is somewhere they feel they can be themselves and potentially more honest than they could be on other sites, and I know that I personally have forged decades long friendships here, and if you had ONLY been honest about yourself/selves, it could have been that for you, too. We have a strong community here. I may not always see eye-to-eye with everyone and there may be some posters that I have epic clashes with on occasion; but we’re a community. People have posted some deeply personal stuff in a place they thought was safe for them to do so and you’ve made a mockery of that by deceiving us all.

We have blatant manipulation, and wasting people’s time (admittedly mostly mine because this was several hours of my life I’m never getting back in the investigation of this), and breaking forum rules.

I’m going to give you a day or so to respond to this, and to explain to people why you thought this was okay, and then I’m likely going to ban the lot of you, and will do whenever another of your profiles appears here, because I have no doubt that they will at some point.

I look forward to hearing your responses from multiple profiles trying to explain your way out of this.
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Spectral Knight
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Spectral Knight » 26 Jan 2021, 09:23

Ouch. Das is on a warpath.

Tbh, I'd thought Jazz + UE were the same person and remember mentioning it before the cosplay reveal, but if they're all the same, that's some Moon Knight level of nuttiness. I really do HOPE it's not the case, not least as it'll cut the potential draft players list off in half, but can't help but agree that if it is the case, whipping out the old ban-hammer's not a bad resolution.

Despite ALL of my many an argument with multiple other posters (hey Das! :D ) if we don't "know" who posters are when they're posting, or in some cases, essentially cheating in board games (I mean, really... you're only cheating yourselves fella(s)...), it's just not cool.

(Side note my IP addresses might be quite fun to see the origin of...just outside London, or slap bang in the Middle East depending on if I'm on VPN or not!).

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Lavettye
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Lavettye » 26 Jan 2021, 10:33

Jazz = UE was confirmed quite a while ago, and it was sort of let go... despite the person behind that profile trying to deny it and not owning up to their mistake.

And while I have to admit that the free agent pick of "Omnicon" in this last draft round aroused my suspicion, I am totally baffled by the magnitude of the parallel usage of these multiple identities. I mean I sort of get a mentality of "this identity got involved in too many heated arguments and is now burned", and then trying to start over with a new persona, but then one would retire the old identity. But if you keep running into the same sort of arguments, then maybe it's not the other posters' perception of you that's the problem, but your own attitude...

Also this certainly doesn't explain why one would be operating up to three or four profiles at the same time. Was it for "ganging up" on people, or for altering majorities, like two or three different profiles supporting certain ideas or vetoing others? I don't know. It's a deep violation of trust. It's absolutely deserving of a ban.


I know that I myself came back to the forum with a new identity and didn't say who I was right away... but several years had passed in between, I never operated more than one account at the same time, and I had been barely posting before I came clean on my own... without anyone even suspecting it was me. It was because I felt guilty over posting with you not knowing that I was me.... the person/people behind JK/UE/Aeon/Sequoia/WF/Omnicon apparently have no such concerns.
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das_boot
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by das_boot » 26 Jan 2021, 10:42

^^^ you missed FolkLore.

Seven profiles for potentially one person.
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Anna Raven
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Anna Raven » 26 Jan 2021, 15:17

So I believe this is something that is done regularly on other websites (they are called "socks"), so it's probably learned behavior sadly. I agree though, the individual should have realized it was not acceptable behavior to use several socks in what is a VERY casual, leisurely game. On the other hand, because these games are so casual, so low stakes, I honestly am peeved, but not really horribly upset.

The other things you mentioned about breech of trust are more important issues than the draft games imo.
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Magik84 » 26 Jan 2021, 15:37

I really haven't kept track enough to realise these people are the same. Agree with Anna Raven the other stuff is more of an issue, for draft games seems they would be creating more work for themselves to keep track of things and taking the challenge out of the game somewhat, which seems so pointless and weird!
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WorldWideWade
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by WorldWideWade » 26 Jan 2021, 15:50

Well this certainly explains all the radically weird teams in the Krakoa Draft.

I went back and, sure enough, those 4-5 accounts made up a majority of the incredibly obscure teams. So at least the player wasn't trying to hog all of the good mutants between their various accounts I guess.

In future drafts, maybe we should start planning for a smaller player base, like closer to 10 players with a max of 15. As Lavettye pointed out, up to a third of the players in recent drafts were made of those accounts and if character pools are geared towards a player base of 20, the game becomes too easy.
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Anna Raven
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Anna Raven » 26 Jan 2021, 15:57

WorldWideWade wrote:
26 Jan 2021, 15:50
I went back and, sure enough, those 4-5 accounts made up a majority of the incredibly obscure teams. So at least the player wasn't trying to hog all of the good mutants between their various accounts I guess.
Also on the plus side, the individual has almost always been good about picking quickly and not making people wait. :lol:
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Lavettye
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Lavettye » 26 Jan 2021, 16:10

Well, in retrospect it does explain why in my Marvelous Comics draft one of these identities drafted with the wrong team/title in mind... it was a title that was assigned to another of their IDs.

But indeed - the trouble they went through to then be picking barely recognizeable characters most of us hadn't even heard of seems so pointless.
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Cable
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Cable » 26 Jan 2021, 17:27

WorldWideWade wrote:
26 Jan 2021, 15:50

In future drafts, maybe we should start planning for a smaller player base, like closer to 10 players with a max of 15. As Lavettye pointed out, up to a third of the players in recent drafts were made of those accounts and if character pools are geared towards a player base of 20, the game becomes too easy.
You are definitely right. Games going forward will probably have to be designed for less than 10 players. Makes it a bit harder for hosts who have to make hard choices for lists or come up with new mechanics!
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Blackcyclops » 28 Jan 2021, 23:30

Wow...this is like Alec Baldwin’s wife level of catfishery lol

Omnicon and Aeon always acted sorta odd but Folklore, Sequoia and WF? Sheesh
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by EphemeristX » 29 Jan 2021, 00:21

Yeah, I fully suspected at least three or four of these were the same person. I'm not at all surprised.
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BardicOne
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by BardicOne » 29 Jan 2021, 03:58

Oof. Yes, Socks are done on social media as a way to feign support when you put your foot in your mouth or want to "shout down" people who disagree with you. I've played online games where I had multiple accounts but there were roleplaying games and it was part of the nature of things, admins knew who had what accounts and what characters. This is why when I came back with this profile the first thing I did was publicly explain so there was no sense of "trust issues" with this new profile.

End of the day we have a rule about multiple active accounts. It is not an obscure rule hidden away where no one can find it.
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Lavettye
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Lavettye » 29 Jan 2021, 22:33

Why are they called "socks" ?
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Anna Raven
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Anna Raven » 29 Jan 2021, 22:48

Lavettye wrote:
29 Jan 2021, 22:33
Why are they called "socks" ?
Maybe because they come in pairs?

Here's what wikipedia says:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sock_puppet_account
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Spectral Knight
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Spectral Knight » 29 Jan 2021, 23:34

Does that mean these odd accounts will gradually disappear as one inexplicably disappears on any given laundry run? I'm sure there's some sort of fundamental undiscovered rule in the quantum mechanics of the universe that explains the odd sock phenomenon.

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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by EphemeristX » 30 Jan 2021, 03:17

What do you guys think of an A-Force draft? It'd be small and light and fun, maybe six to seven picks and eight to ten players.
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Anna Raven » 30 Jan 2021, 06:30

EphemeristX wrote:
30 Jan 2021, 03:17
What do you guys think of an A-Force draft? It'd be small and light and fun, maybe six to seven picks and eight to ten players.
I think it would be super fun!
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Lavettye » 30 Jan 2021, 10:24

I was next in line to host, but I'm not entirely feeling the AF speed draft... considering that three of the people initailly pushing for it have now been lost in the laundry. 8-)

I know that the "anti-Krakoa cast" idea was never received that well, but I've further tweaked it, and I think it would be worth it. It's now a mix of an Exiles theme, with a bit of Cable's genres in there and the aforementioned cast. I'm calling it "Crisis of Multiverse X" The basic idea is that there's a crisis in the multiverse where alternate realities collide, a bit like Secret Wars/Battleword... and in the end a proper order is restored, but it's not like it was before. People have been distributed among the many variant realities and they have to stay there and make new homes/lifes there, just like Mike Morales in the 616 universe.

It would be eight rounds, during which you will pick a type of reality and seven members for an X-Men team having to operate in that reality. It would be no fixed order, you could either first try securing the reality you want and then draft members, or focus on group dynmaics first and go after the reality.

Available realities could include:
- dystopian future / post-apocalyptic
- mutant utopia
- DOFP styled (Sentinels and mutant concentration camps)
- no technology, medieval
- mutant supremacy (AoA)
- corporate run (2099)
- alien overlords (Badoon or Skrulls conquered Earth)
- similar to present day 616
- peaceful coexistence
- wildcard - your choice as long as its none of the above

The cast would be
- all ORIGINAL mutants from alternate realities (X-Men and X-Nation 2099, Bishop's X.S.E., Wild Thing and the X-People from MC-2, Rancor and her Lieutenants from GoTG, Askani rebels ...)
- all noteable alternate versions of established characters BUT only one version per character. Like if someone were to grab "Storm Goddess of Thunder with Thor's hammer" then nobody could grab Bloodstorm anymore. These characters may be from AoA, DOFP, AoX, any What If story...
- optional one 616 character per player (but with same limitation, no counterpart of them is used by anyone else)


So? What do you think ?
I'd also be up for Ephs A-Force thing, btw.
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Spectral Knight
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Re: Draft Discussion Thread

Post by Spectral Knight » 30 Jan 2021, 13:32

Both A-Force and Crisis of Multiple X sound good, the tweaks you've made to the latter has heightened my interest, Lavettye.

I am suffering a bit of draft wear out but I guess by the time a draft is officially announced plus sign ups etc. I should be good to for either.

(At dome point I'll try to finish my drawings from the Acts of Vengeance draft... I've stupidly set myself a bit of a challenge on the first one, and it's taking aaaages.)

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