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Avengers 4

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Nu-D
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Nu-D » 24 Apr 2019, 02:12

First round of reviews are in, and they’re ecstatic.

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Re: Avengers 4

Post by tokenBG1009 » 24 Apr 2019, 06:30

Cable wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 14:15
I'm not too worried about spoiler articles that can be avoided. It is people who see it and then make spoiler-filled memes and start sharing them around Facebook and Twitter that are most annoying.
I learned the art of muting words/phrases on twitter for 30 days to avoid as much as possible. Basically every Avenger character is muted along with Hashtags and other names. I do the same for GoT because I'm usually a day behind in watching it.

It would probably be easier to just not login to twitter for the next week.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by manuel_mc89 » 24 Apr 2019, 22:34

I think I got spoiled in Facebook, more than once, it was the same gif. I really can't understand why someone would do that.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by bamf » 26 Apr 2019, 02:22

Just got out of seeing it. No spoilers. Just wanted to say that it’s... it’s really really incredible. I cried a lot. This is truly a love letter to the MCU and the fans.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Juggernaut » 26 Apr 2019, 04:00

The movie is incredible. If you have read the comics this movie does that justice with some modern flare. There was one moment I won’t spoil but the entire theatre cheered and my buddy and I stood up and high fived each other. I think it also did a great job juggling characters given the giant cast. Most of the main characters get some nice moments to shine.

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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Magnus » 26 Apr 2019, 22:20

Liked it a lot, really satisfying ending. I did like Infinity War more, I'd say this one was maybe an A-/B+ to Infinity War's A.

SPOILERS:
Spoiler: show
Certainly went a very unexpected direction with the plot. I mean, yeah, we all probably thought time travel would be involved somehow, and it was, but not in the way we thought. Interesting idea to simply move the universe ahead five years (though now with half the people who are five years younger than the rest). Biggest disappointment from this is we'll not see Abby Ryder Forston as Cassie Lang again, I really liked her as an actress.

Doing a 'time heist' in which they return to different moments and get to see past characters again certainly helped up the ante as a big wrap-up and love letter to the MCU. I do think the middle of the movie dragged a little bit though because of it. The return to New York was good but the Thor/Hela stuff felt a bit undercut by the constant Sad Fat Thor jokes and the bit on Morag was also a bit unnecessary (why did they need to go back to 2014 for it? Surely the Power Stone had been there for a long time and they could've gone to another point?)

I admittedly thought Nebula would get the gauntlet following the comics, but that clearly didn't happen... but we did get Mjolnir Cap, which was great.

The timeline stuff does get a bit weird... I guess the way I understood it is that the timelines do create branching paths from where they went back, but they still had to get the Stones back because the Stones are so important that having them gone from the timeline would be disastrous (which would also mean Thanos' plan would've failed eventually anyways, thanks bud). There's some dang big alternate branches created, chief among them Loki escaping with the Tesseract in 2012 and, well, Thanos and friends just disappearing from 2014 onward.

I fully expected one or both of Cap and Iron Man to bite it, so I wasn't surprised when Tony sacrificed himself, but I still teared up at it (and the funeral scene). The Cap resolution also was surprising but fitting. I like the theory that the 'other man' mentioned in Peggy's life was in fact Future Cap the whole time, which is why they've never named him. Handing over the shield to Falcon made sense, following the comics, though I do wonder if he's 'earned' it in the MCU... just another reason I really wish they had made another movie after Age of Ultron but before Civil War, we really needed to get Falcon, Scarlet Witch and Vision some more screen time I think.

Captain Marvel was barely in the movie! If you had told me they had the plot for Infinity War and Endgame basically mapped out and then they worked her in at the last moment I'd definitely believe you.

Kinda sad they got everyone in the sun in this movie (even Natalie Portman gets a credit, even though I'm pretty sure her one scene is old footage from Thor 2) but they couldn't fit in Coulson.

I think overall the biggest weakness with the movie is that it lacked a strong villain. Thanos gets killed in the first ten minutes, the middle part of the movie is time heist shenanigans, and then 2014 Thanos shows up for the big fight at the end. But since it's not 'our' Thanos it lacks the same emotional heft in some ways. The Thanos in IW was excellently written and even though he was meeting a lot of the heroes for the first time, felt like he knew them. Here he clearly doesn't and instead just feels like generic big bad in many ways. Maybe they could've done something where Thanos doesn't die at the beginning, something with more questioning about whether what he did was right or not; hell they could've even had IW Thanos be shown why he was wrong and help fix things in the end. I dunno. Like I said, I still liked the movie a lot, but it was definitely a grade under Infinity War for me.

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Re: Avengers 4

Post by manuel_mc89 » 27 Apr 2019, 02:21

I have no words at the moment, I almost cried a couple times, THAT moment was amazing, and the resolution were fitting, but I'm DEFINITELY mad over one, like, they didn't deserve it.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Blackcyclops » 27 Apr 2019, 03:23

I cried profusely when two words were said...like it was so meaningful.
Spoiler: show
I yelled out loud with A-Force and Sam getting the shield.

I do appreciate that Nat’s sacrifice was her choice, just like Tony. RDJ deserves to be up there with Hugh after Logan.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by manuel_mc89 » 27 Apr 2019, 03:31

Yes, yes, those words. That was amazing, but that other moment you mention, to me, they did them bad, and to me, they deserved more.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Anna Raven » 27 Apr 2019, 04:55

I think I literally cheered out loud or began shedding tears about 8 separate times in this movie.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Quick and Dead » 27 Apr 2019, 05:53

This had a ton to live up to and it truly knocked it out of the park. So satisfying, so emotional, just a perfect way to end out this part of the franchise. Minor gripes and comments below.
Spoiler: show
The only complaint I have was Captain Marvel. Just seemed shoehorned in and didn't really affect the plot in any way which feels odd considering the after credits of Infinity War.

Also would have loved to see Natalie Portman have a scene with Rocket Raccoon and I thought it was building to that so I was let down.

Time travel stuff is always wonky. Why wouldn't Cap shacking up with Peggy cause an alternate reality? Are we to assume he kept such a low profile that it didn't affect the timeline?

Someone above said Coulson would've been a nice inclusion. I don't agree. There's millions of people who watch every Marvel movie and haven't seen single second of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., heck people might not even be aware of that show's existence. It would've caused many viewers confusion. This was a celebration of the MCU and to many MCU fans, Coulson is still dead.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Magnus » 27 Apr 2019, 06:21

Quick and Dead wrote:
27 Apr 2019, 05:53
Spoiler: show
Someone above said Coulson would've been a nice inclusion. I don't agree. There's millions of people who watch every Marvel movie and haven't seen single second of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., heck people might not even be aware of that show's existence. It would've caused many viewers confusion. This was a celebration of the MCU and to many MCU fans, Coulson is still dead.
I was thinking he could've shown up during one of the time jumps, but thinking about it more neither would've worked... he's too young to show up during the 70s one, and already dead by the 2012 one.

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Re: Avengers 4

Post by das_boot » 27 Apr 2019, 07:50

This was just glorious in almost every aspect.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Spectral Knight » 27 Apr 2019, 08:24

Okay, I really need to watch this again (because of all the... that I'll reference in the spoilers) but for me I do have to say it's not quite as strong as what most of the reviews are indicating. Lots of special moments that I'll reference below but on the whole it's nowhere near the perfection of Winter Soldier, the sheer fun yet personal dilemmas of Civil War, or the unadulterated joy of GOTG or Ragnarok. Is it the best Avengers movie? Yep, but not the best MCU movie for me - a very solid 4 out of 5 from this critic.

So... spoilered stuff...
Spoiler: show
Whoa... all got very timey-wimey there didn't it...

No idea how I'm going to structure all my thoughts so apologise for it being a bit stream of consciousness...

As I've mentioned before (probably more times than I can count), as a massive BTTF fan, particularly part 2, jumping into prior scenes and the history of the MCU and viewing them from different angles was very special but it's taken me a bit of time to actually process the rules of time travel they've chosen to use. I think it correlates for the most part with the comics view of time travel - or at least prior rules. I do think tonnes of casual non sci-fi fans will struggle to understand the flow though, as essentially we've just seen anywhere between one and five new universes added to the MCU multiverse, and both my dad and girlfriend did seem confused as to which bits effect the future. It was a bit of a brain puzzler.

The return of Ant-Man - Scott is fast becoming one of my favourite MCU characters and I love his smarts but his still very human appeal.

Great to see so much emphasis on Nebula too. A character I know next to nothing about from the comics has moved from being a sub-villain to one of its biggest heroes precisely because of her journey. Her and Rocket holding hands was heart breaking.

Cap wielding both Mjolnir and the power of Thor was crazy in a good way. Shows the spirit of Steve like never before.

The A-Force reference was a little cringe. Know some fans will love it, and there were a few girls who really cheered at this point in our showing but it seemed a little convoluted that all of the female players managed to get in shot in one part of an absolutely hectic battlefield.

After the fun of Carol's debut I think off-planeting her for so much of this movie was a mistake. Was she too OP'd in CM, or just a creative decision not to have too much focus on a relative newbie.

Also whilst there were three Infinity Stones on Earth at the same time on NYC 2012, it was a terrible strategy to go there first as it was also carnage being post Battle of NY. Surely the most sensible route would be to go straight to Pym sometime between him leaving Shield and making contact with Scott, and grab a tonne of Pym Particles at the same time, so far less potentially chaotic time periods could be raided for the subsequent stones without the risk of no go-arounds.

Loved some of the returns. Seeing Rumlow, Sitwell and the Ancient One again was fun. Valkyrie's return was fantastic, and think this version of someone who couldn't care less about Asgard now becoming the monarch of New Asgard is a great side story.

Did anyone think Frigga seemed really "off"... I was sure that halfway through their heart-to-heart that we'd actually see her turn into Loki.

Surprised Nat bit the big one. With the reveal of the Widow movie and the Hawkeye series I didn't have a clue which way this one would go... great scenes of an incredible friendship that was clearly platonic love without the strings of a hook up. Beautifully filmed.

Is old Cap proof that the MCU we've been watching isn't MCU Prime but an offshoot universe where he stayed in the past with Peggy?

Prof Hulk seemed a little too light for me. Banner Hulk can still have shades of grey...thought he was too light in this for my tastes. Also after the awesomeness of Thor taking Thanos' head, allowing him to be a joke without really taking his personal despair didn't work at all. It felt there should have been more anguish and less a source of humour. I can appreciate Rocket taking pot shots at him, but Rhodes?

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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Crutey Anth » 27 Apr 2019, 11:21

I thoroughly enjoyed this movie, very satisfying, very fun.


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.A few minor things: 1) Is Thor now 100% a joke character? I like light hearted party Thor but I always find it so jarring that in the last 3 movies he was in its all been about jokes from him (again I have a problem with Bathos which really grinds me) 2) It wouldn't have killed them to have had a float for Black Widow too 3) I really really wish we'd gotten to see Peter and Aunt May meet again (assuming she wasn't snapped and he was)
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Blackcyclops » 27 Apr 2019, 11:35

Far from Home is next guys! Going to weird seeing a post-Endgame film
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by manuel_mc89 » 27 Apr 2019, 13:47

[I took it the time travels rules were the old comics ones, were if you change something you will create an alternate timeline instead of changing your present, and that's how I interpreted here and explained it to my friends.
Spoiler: show
But regarding Back Widow, I just can't believe it is a satisfying ending for her, I mean, yeah, she was acting like the head of this planetary, and even interplanetary "organization", trying to keep things going and helping everybody when apparently even Captain America had retired, but u felt like it wasn't really developed and it felt like and afterthought.

After that, she knew how Clint was acting and she chose to sacrifice herself for him, basically, instead of letting him atone for all that his done by doing this to also bring back his family. This didn't seem so much as heroic for me as depressive, she was feeling so down after everyone disappeared that she HAD to help bring them back, and going back to the feelings of not being able to have her own family, literally giving her life so Clint could have his back, because she didn't have a family and he did. You know, depressive.

And she didn't even considered that if everything would work out, Clint would get his family back, but as a killer, and a wanted one after having pissed off a lot of gangs around the world, so know that all of them are back, he has a big mark on his forehead, and they would/will go against his family's, which wouldn't happen if he was dead. I think the right idea was to have Clint atone for everything and doing the extreme to bring his family back.

And finally, she missed the last battle, I get that contractually this had to be her last movie, same as the bigger players, but, why couldn't we let her have her died at the last battle or a battle. The first female heroe, and founding avenger died sacrificing herself over her friend that really should've gone, and she didn't even had a memorial.

I just hope her prequel movie is amazing, cause the did her bad here
Edit: Also,
Spoiler: show
I consider myself a huge fan o the female characters, like I would love an A-Force movie, but that scene felt a little :roll: to me, like it felt cheap in a "look how pro women we are, see how we have such college female characters" like we are going to forget that this is like the 20th film and this scene should have been a few years back, at least. I think it worked better in IW having Okoye, Black Widow and Scarlett Witch worked together
Also, also, guys, which are the community actors left to appear in a Marvel film? Just Britta, Jeff and Annie?
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Blackcyclops » 27 Apr 2019, 14:19

A few years back you didn’t have all these characters though (BP just came out two years ago for example)...like you didn’t have all those films yet. You can definitely argue there should’ve been more done earlier (but you can say that at any time). It was a fan service moment, just like those two words (you could say he should’ve been said that too a few years back), and it served in my mind to usher in something better going forward. And then on top of that from a straight logistical standpoint, hard to blame these writers and directors for the scene taking so long they aren’t in control of alot of stuff (financing films, contracts, etc), so the fact they (and the actors involved, don’t forget their agency) pushed to get that included (TT had teased it awhile back) doesn’t make me feel like it was “oh look how progress we are” but “hey these characters are bad-ass and this is the future”. It’s just like the final passing of a gift to somebody else...you can argue maybe it should’ve happened earlier too but him doing it at that moment really had weight to it that I truly enjoyed and saw alot of Black men in the theater actually tear up as well.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by manuel_mc89 » 27 Apr 2019, 14:55

Ok ok, you convinced me, I won't be so cynical about that moment, it was cool.

This has me intrigued about the state of the universe that we might see in Homecoming, because the whole 5 years difference is quite complex, and if that is a prequel, I think we will see the effects in one of the tv shows.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Magnus » 27 Apr 2019, 16:46

RE: Black Widow
Spoiler: show
I'm not 100% certain she's dead. Hulk made it clear he tried really hard to bring her back but... would he know? It seems entirely plausible to me that he did manage to bring her back, but maybe she's stuck on Vormir or something.

Also, it would seem logical to me that 2014 Gamora would be dead from Tony's snap, since I'm sure his thinking was 'kill all of Thanos' forces' and he hadn't seen that she had turned to help them out.
manuel_mc89 wrote:
27 Apr 2019, 14:55
This has me intrigued about the state of the universe that we might see in Homecoming, because the whole 5 years difference is quite complex, and if that is a prequel, I think we will see the effects in one of the tv shows.
Yeah I'm definitely hoping they dig into the 5-year-gap a fair amount.

Though, it occurs to me... (do we still need to spoil things at this point?)
Spoiler: show
People have already talked about how Thanos's "kill half the universe" would probably be catastrophic and kill a lot more than that. Think about how half the airplanes flying crashed, half the cars driving crashed, half or more of all the other dangerous things could've gone wrong, etc. I don't think a lot of the infrastructure we have scales linearly, and I bet a whole bunch of people starved from having half the people involved in food cultivation and transportation die.

So, anyways... we live in a world five years later. Clearly some society still exists (even if MLB doesn't seem to). The power's on and people are eating, great. But now the Avengers just brought back the 50% who got snapped while keeping everything else the same. All that destroyed infrastructure now has to support twice the people, etc. A whooooole lotta people are gonna suddenly starve...

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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Quick and Dead » 27 Apr 2019, 17:20

Do we really need to do spoil tags in the official topics?
Spoiler: show
I don’t see Black Widow being dead anymore than I see Gamora being dead. At the end, Hawkeye is talking to Scarlet Witch about how he hopes Nat knows they won and Wanda replies “She does, they both do.” Could this be implying Wanda can communicate with Gamora and Nat in the soul stone?

Also, how in the world could Cap have returned the Soul Stone? Is that possible to do? He might still have it.
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Magnus » 27 Apr 2019, 18:07

Also, did he have to inject the Reality Stone back into Jane, or could he just leave it there as a rock?

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Re: Avengers 4

Post by AntiBody » 28 Apr 2019, 02:47

LOVED this. Just got back and I loved it. So much to say, but for now, just...
Spoiler: show
I, too, SCREAMED when A-Force showed up!!!
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Blackcyclops » 28 Apr 2019, 02:55

Kudos to Chris Evans to doing for Captain America what no actor has yet to do for Cyclops: make him feel like a complete character instead of the “lame” foil to the “cool” characters.

Also shout out to Amy Pond (sorry Karen) for giving Nebula an actual arc...more of one than Storm ever had.

Paul Rudd and Don Cheadle are comedic geniuses lol...why fox never get us jokes in x-men films?


Sorry guys I just watched Apocalypse for the first time five minutes ago lol
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Re: Avengers 4

Post by Nu-D » 28 Apr 2019, 12:28

This was a really satisfying movie to watch. But as I’ve been thinking about it and reading y’all’s comments, I realize that the whole is not as good as he sum of the parts. There were many touching and inspiring character moments, creative, interesting and exciting stories, and good visuals. But when you add it all together, it doesn’t quite make a fantastic movie. I’m downgrading my initial assessment from A- to B+.

The first twenty minutes were a shock, and frankly annoyed me. I know CM was already introduced to the Avengers, but just having here there with not explanation or any relationship development was off putting. The rescue of Tony And Nebula came out of nowhere. How did CM know where to look for them, or even that they were alive? I expected that to be a major part of the first act, but it just happened with hardly a blink. Then they promptly go off and kill Thanos, and I was like WTF?

I gasped at the five years later caption. They hesitated just a beat between “five” and
“years” and it was really very effective. Then it was off to the races...

I cried when Scott was reunited with Cassie. I wish she had been able to stay with him for more of the first act. They hugged at the door, and next thing you know he’s at HQ cracking jokes, and she’s not mentioned again.

As others have noted, the time travel rules don’t seem to add up, and to me that undercuts the movie as a whole. I’m fine with the Shooter/Gruenwald time travel rules, but they seems to be inconsistently applied here. I guess we have to assume that Cap always went back to be with Peggy, and nobody ever mentioned it before. So when young Steve went to see dying Peggy, old Steve was hiding in the waiting room across the hall.

And speaking of, I thought Caps arc was really good. Going back to live the life he was deprived of while in the ice made perfect sense. But it satisfied me intellectually, and I wasn’t particularly emotionally invested. His on-screen relationships with the Avengers have been far more developed than with Peggy, and I thought his goodbye to some of them was underdone (BW, of course, but also Bucky).

I actually thought Tony’s arc was a little flat. He didn’t sell me well on his family, and his decision to rejoin the Avengers didn’t feel particularly weighty. They could have played up some doubt about whether the stones could reverse the snap without reversing the five years to give him some more conflict.

But I think the context of the MCU as a whole, this was a very fitting send off. The film did a good job of giving him one last heroic spin, while also handing it off to the newcomers.

Speaking of the newcomers. I was satisfied with Carol’s role. I think she was established as a powerhouse and a future player, but they left to focus on the old guard for the send off. On the other hand I was disappointed at how little T’Challa, Shuri and especially Okoye had to do. Why wasn’t Okoye part of any of the time heists? She should have gone with Thor. And whatever happpend to Lupita’s character? She seems to have been written out of the MCU.

And why didn’t Valkyrie also help with the time heists? I’m pleased we’ll be seeing more of her. I hope it’s as part of A-Force, not just as a sidekick to Thor, or a cameo in AsGotG. She’s got an established friendship with Bruce, and there’s I guess some rumors about a same sex relationship with Captain Marvel.

My heart swelled when the women of A-Force were first shown together. But as the camera pulled back and the number of women went from six to like fifty, my head said, how the heck are all these women in one spot, and the men are nowhere around. Is Peter just that much of a babe magnet?

I’m just thrilled that the MCU can show women and men having friendships, without sexual tension or jealous wives. Valkyrie and Bruce, Valkyrie And Thor, Nat and Steve, Nat and Clint. Nat and Laura. I mean really, when was the last time a movie showed a married male protagonist had a close relationship with a sexy female assassin, and the wife was friends with her too? The MCU has really grown to shine here.

And finally Nat. Johansson really shone brightly in this film. She genuinely looked like she was having fun acting the role, which always sells me on a performance (in contrast to Portman, who always seems to hate being in these movies). Her character had the strongest motivations and development. Quite a standout throughout the movie, BW’s best turn since Civil War. I love how important being a hero became to her. She’s being a hero because it’s helping her heal. It was a wonderful arc.

It’s frustrating to me that the movie itself undercut her final sacrifice. It was buried in the middle, and because time travel and infinity stones were involved, I spent most of the movie watching to see how she would be resurrected. I don’t know how they could have fixed that, but her death really had little impact. Maybe a little more dialogue with the Red Skull to reinforce that it would be for real would have helped.

(Also, since you have to sacrifice “what you love most” to get the soul stone, how exactly does suicide work?)
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