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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 16 Dec 2017, 22:37

After being convinced that there doesn’t need to be any more Star Wars movies, The Last Jedi restored my faith in The Force.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by tokenBG1009 » 17 Dec 2017, 04:19

This was fantastic! I feel like there will be a large subset of fans who won't like it because it basically throws out a lot of legacy type things. As someone who really dislikes the need to tie everything into precious movies it was everything I've wanted in the sequel trilogy.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Juggernaut » 17 Dec 2017, 05:51

I just got back from watching it and while I will say that it was awesome that they went a few unexpected ways and changed things up I wasn't a fan of this installment. There were a lot of plot holes that even my casual friends were saying that doesn't make sense, also I understand where they are trying to take kylo ren but I believe it is poor execution. I didn't hate it but it's probably my least favorite right now outside episode 1. Also
Spoiler: show
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 17 Dec 2017, 13:59

Spoiler: show
They probably killed Ackbar to honor the death of his voice actor, Erik Bauersfeld.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Juggernaut » 17 Dec 2017, 17:13

EvilMonkeyPope wrote:
17 Dec 2017, 13:59
Spoiler: show
They probably killed Ackbar to honor the death of his voice actor, Erik Bauersfeld.
That makes me feel better lol. Thanks

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Crutey Anth » 17 Dec 2017, 20:57

I'm one of those who has problems (not because it didn't fit the pattern of old ones) but rather it was just odd, disjointed

My issues:

1. too many jokes at serious moments-it’s something I’ve noticed in movies recently (Marvel is my classic example) and it takes me out...especially when it doesn’t fit the feel f everything (Luke tossing his dad’s lightsaber away or brushing his shoulder after the laser blasts, Dameron talking to Hux)...the tone of the humour felt a bit too slapstick
2. Finn and Rose’s side-quest was a bit pointless (I can live with that, it was a twist so I can deal) but Finn saw like no character development (and then Rose decided to be in love with him for no reason).
3. Wasted opportunity- Snoke and Phasma are both pointless! Phasma should be Finn’s nemesis! Everything he is not and a reminder of how his life was taken away/what he used to be....in both movies she has been taken down easily
4. Rey is a bit ‘Mary Sue’ she found out she was connected to the force like a week ago and yet she’s just as good with a lightsaber as Kylo Ren and is levitating rocks all over....she also saw no development ‘I want to be a Jedi and hate Kylo Ren’ which is the same place at the end of the last one
5. It just felt like it didn’t have too much of a plot....they’re just waiting for the third essentially
6. Leia’s superman moment was a bit OTT but I can live with it
7. Kylo is still just a whiny teenager with temper tantrums....who now has been ‘beaten’ by Rey twice in two movie, so not really a threat.



My fantasy 're-write' to improve it in my eyes:

I'd get rid of the whole 'fleet fleeing and running out of fuel thing' and instead just have them 'pinned down' on a planet, all of the space battles and the stuff on the planet can still happen. The first third of the movie can progress as it did really.

Three big plot-lines running through the whole thing:
1) Rey and Luke on the island, cut out some of the comedy from the island and have Rey trying to convince Luke to train her, then having him train her a little (during this Luke can force chat with Leia)

2) Running alongside it is Snoke and Kylo doing something similar (trying to 'unfracture' Kylo, even do it after the whole super-woman Leia if needs be to show the conflict)....they can be on some killing spree across the galaxy as much as I care to forge him in the darkside- just reveal who Snoke is/background

The key bit is those two are mirror images of each other- we're seeing the flashbacks to Kylo and Luke's history from both sides, we can still have Rey and Kylo being connected with each other and facing off 'psychically'. Snoke and Luke can get involved in the spiritual battle (play it out physically if needs be)- boosted by their spiritual places of power. Heck finish it the same with Kylo turning on Snoke and killing him before then turning on Luke (who had let his guard down thinking Kylo was coming back, having been convinced by Rey that it would happen). Now we have Rey being trained into being a Padawn, more info on Snoke, A link between Kylo and Rey, Rey has even more reason to HATE Kylo- he killed two father figures she has AND she blames herself for both. Kylo grows as a villain and moves into the main role.

3) Finn, Rose, Leia, Poe and all the others defending the planet and trying to break through the First Order fleet...Vs Hux, Phasma and.....THE KNIGHTS OF REN (who are these guys? Where are these other bad jedi?). I'd have them being the force which is wiping out the rebels who Leia and Poe and all the others have to stand against. You can even send Finn and Rose off to the space ship for whatever reason and importantly have Finn face Phasma and just managing to escape, he wins by completing the task but its clear Phasma is a better soldier than him etc. Still have the same plot for Poe (maybe even have him shaken a little because of the failed plan at the start) where he needs to become a leader, faces off against the new general (some other issue he disagrees with now) and she can still have her heroic sacrifice.

The end is Poe now leading like a real leader facing off against the First Order troops, Finn and Rose have some attraction, Leia can use the force to kill some knight of Ren or other (someone she knows...or have him kill her). Rey and Chewie come roaring in at the end to save the day

Same plot, a bit different than usual Star Wars but....imo just better (but you may disagree)



Apparently it gets better on a second viewing

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by tokenBG1009 » 17 Dec 2017, 21:47

As someone who thinks that the idea of lightsabers having some super omega importance I honestly loved that Luke gave zero shits about it when Rey presented it to him. Rey not being his daughter is also the bee's knees. There's no reason she can't be powerful with the Force. She's capable in combat because she's had to survive on Jakku all her life. I'd argue just about all her feats can be explained.

I also don't understand the criticism about the Poe v Hux talk. This is entirely in character for Poe considering his behavior in front of Kylo in TFA. If that scene had been serious it would have been out of character.

Leia's Force moment was amazing to me. We've always known she was strong with the Force, but we'd never seen it before now. It was a little weirdly shot, but I liked seeing Leia was strong. I think it would have been better to show her strength when they were trapped in the cave though. Her coming to the rescue instead of Rey would have been amazing.

I don't think Phasma is dead, but so far she's been a new and improved Boba Fett. There to look cool and honestly do a whole lot of nothing. She at least had a decent fight against Finn though.

I think Rose's "love" of Finn is almost entirely born of hero-worship. She idolized him and he managed to live up to her expectations and almost sacrificed himself. I'm sure the two will end up together by the end of IX, but it's a relationship that will be explored in that movie as well.

I honestly am lost on the Kylo hate. His master tried to murder him. He'd already been corrupted by Snoke. He idolized his grandfather. We're honestly seeing what we should have seen of Anakin's fall. The conflict he experiences Internal is painful. I cheered for him to turn to the Light, but he ultimately fell completely into darkness.

I could have gone without the weird milk scene. I don't know why we needed that.

Overall, I feel like this movie was entirely about just letting go of the past. It was very much a Star Wars movie, but it was one that did it's best to make people realize you can't cling to the previous stories. Anakin's lightsaber is in two pieces. Luke and Han are dead, Leia is going to be gone in some way. It's officially the story of our new stars.

It's going to be interesting to see how JJ wraps this up.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Crutey Anth » 17 Dec 2017, 22:27

tokenBG1009 wrote:
17 Dec 2017, 21:47
As someone who thinks that the idea of lightsabers having some super omega importance I honestly loved that Luke gave zero shits about it when Rey presented it to him. Rey not being his daughter is also the bee's knees. There's no reason she can't be powerful with the Force. She's capable in combat because she's had to survive on Jakku all her life. I'd argue just about all her feats can be explained.

I also don't understand the criticism about the Poe v Hux talk. This is entirely in character for Poe considering his behavior in front of Kylo in TFA. If that scene had been serious it would have been out of character.

I honestly am lost on the Kylo hate. His master tried to murder him. He'd already been corrupted by Snoke. He idolized his grandfather. We're honestly seeing what we should have seen of Anakin's fall. The conflict he experiences Internal is painful. I cheered for him to turn to the Light, but he ultimately fell completely into darkness.
For these ones

1) The whole thing is they have been built to be important, like a Samurai and his sword. It's not even the fact it is a lightsaber it was his dad's who he brought back from the darkside and got him into 'jedi heaven' essentially. Even if he was disillusioned with the whole thing it just came across as odd.

2) The Poe, Hux thing isn't out of character but rather....its the tone. The style of jokes were almost like a parody movie, it'd have been better if Hux hadn't fallen for it repeatedly and then the guy saying 'he's tooling with you'....it played out like a family guy cut away. (I feel the same way about the lightsabre toss, it was done for a laugh instead of an emotional decision if he'd just dropped it or thrown it away). Its not a big thing just tonally off to me. (I have the same problem with a few of the same comedy moments in TFA and Thor, (when he was joking with Sutur and Sutur was responding like he was in on it) just a bit 'cartoon-y')....odd comedy style for a non-comedy movie, I think the humour should just be a bit subtler. It's like the gophers in Indiana Jones.

3) It's not even the tantrums, I can buy that (the lightsabre thrashing in TFA and lift smashing here) but when you couple that with: Rey and Finn holding their own against him in the first one, him having to sneak attack Snoke, be saved by Rey during the fight, not having the power to beat her in the tug of war....then him losing his temper etc it just makes him look weak, ineffective petulent child who people are humouring. Compare him to Vader- in the first one, no one got the best of him. In the second one he defeats Luke and Luke barely escapes, third one you're waiting for the epic battle because he is a real credible threat who you're wondering is Luke now powerful enough to take. Now imagine he'd been knocked out fighting Han/Luke in the first one, then shown to be Luke's equal in #2.....I want strong villains, not ones who are jokes to make the heroes look better.


The Force is now just also horrendously inconsistent in Star Wars.
1) Original trilogy- its essentially ESP, sensing stuff with a little telekinesis (which in hindsight we can say Luke wasn't really trained and Obi Wan and Vader were old guys), the emporer gets lightning. They key point is he needed training in the force.

2) Prequel trilogy- They're using the force to flip around like who knows what, that plus ESP. Anakin who is massively linked with the force basically gets good reflexes and 'luck'. Again he needed training in using the force.

3) Rey has no training but is using mind tricks, lifting many huge rocks, going on vision walks, can weild a lightsabre as good as someone trained for years by a master jedi and a sith lord....no flippy though. All the way through it seemed that force was something you could tap into but you needed training to use/feel it properly but not anymore

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by tokenBG1009 » 17 Dec 2017, 23:11

1. Anakin was shown to constantly lose his lightsaber. He never seemed to actually care about it in the movies all that much. It's importance in the Original Trilogy is more because there are no Jedi to make more and Obi-Wan's connection to his father. The way lightsabers are treated in the rest of the canon makes it seem like they wouldn't be something that's passed down because they are the identity of that Jedi.

2. Hux, for all of his seriousness, is very much a cartoon villain. He's got zero depth as a character. He's a borderline space nazi. He's never seemed like a character that would be treated with any seriousness by the script.

3. Your point about Vader is precisely why I have little problem with how Kylo ends up portrayed. He's trying, and failing, to be Vader. He's only terrifying to those around him because of Space Magic. Kylo is also someone who is completely inhibited by rage. He's Wolverine. Logan would lose a lot of fights if he didn't nave a healing factor to save his ass.

The Force:

The old EU had Force Adepts who didn't receive training, but learned to use the Force on it's own.

Rey only used mind tricks against Stormtroopers who are completely and utterly conditioned to obey. I'm not surprised it was difficult for her. Her raw power is also propping up her lack of training.

Rey's style of fighting with a lightsaber reminds me a lot of how she fights with her staff, which she is proficient in. The first fight against Ren he had just taken a bolt from Chewie's bowcaster. He was seriously injured. People went flying when shot with that thing and he just fell to a knee. He was bleeding all over the snow. Finn actually had melee combat training prior to his desertion. He also only held his own for a couple moments before almost getting killed.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Blackcyclops » 18 Dec 2017, 11:39

Idk...this feels like one of those movies where i think nerds are overly harsh on for nerdy reasons and film critics like for film critic-y reasons. I usually side with with my nerd-brethren but I really liked this. Rian Johnson killed it as a director and the cinematographer was a boss on this. Easily the best filmed big budgety film in a very long time...
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Blackcyclops » 18 Dec 2017, 13:44

I also love how brightly lit the movie was...like it just reminds you that you don’t gotta film everything in shadows or with drab hues either.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by tokenBG1009 » 18 Dec 2017, 21:15

Blackcyclops wrote:
18 Dec 2017, 13:44
I also love how brightly lit the movie was...like it just reminds you that you don’t gotta film everything in shadows or with drab hues either.
Which is interesting because it was such a dark movie thematically.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Quick and Dead » 18 Dec 2017, 23:15

Great movie, terrible sequel to The Force Awakens. They clearly had no longterm plans for this trilogy and Rian Johnson had no interest in the mysteries that Abrams set up nor the newer side characters he introduced. I've seen some defending the Finn/Rose subplot but I thought it was terrible. It was like Johnson knew he had to include him in the film and someone dug up an unused Clone Wars script for him. He clearly was only focused on Rey/Kylo/Luke so I wish the movie just expanded and gave us more of that and less of all the other inconsequential bs because the Rey/Kylo/Luke stuff was actually good.

Well, actually... the Rey/Kylo stuff was good, the Luke was not. In fact, I didn't really see Luke Skywalker in this. Felt like a new character. And that's not Mark Hammil's fault of course but I'm just not sure how the screenwriters thought this would be a satisfying way to portray Luke. Even if it was for a split second, Luke Skywalker struggling with the idea of Ben having dark thoughts that he thought he might murder him? That's as unlike Luke as you can get. The guy refused to murder Vader because he was convinced he had good in him but thought to murder Ben because he might go dark?

I also wish some reshoots were in order and Leia replaced Holdo at the end. They could've managed it with body doubles and stuff. Not only would that awesome sacrifice have had more of an impact(we barely knew Holdo) but I can't imagine them coming up with a better way to do Leia's death in episode 9.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Blackcyclops » 18 Dec 2017, 23:21

Besides mirroring the choice that Kenobi had with Anakin (ending the threat early) in that instance, is it really that hard to believe that a person as naive as Luke (because Luke was definitely naive...it's part of his charm) wouldn't change after years of war and loss and study of a religious order with questionable qualities?

Maybe it's a reflection more of my worldview and the world we live in...but if a person like Luke wasn't to, even for a split second, consider such actions then I'd feel like was too unrealistic...

I'm with Token, I loved that Rey's family weren't special. In the era of #MeToo, that meant alot...

And Snoke just being a space nazi (I still love that Johnson and Abrams go out of there way to show how super-white the First Order is) and him just dying was the perfect end to a macguffin. And for anybody who complains that he didn't get any backstory, well Palpatine didn't either in the films and I think we all accepted him as just "the bad guy". He was less interesting as a presence in TFA than Thanos in any appearance.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by XtremeOne1 » 19 Dec 2017, 08:05

Jesus BC, you did not just throw the Me too movement into a Star Wars discussion about Rey's parents....Come on, dude.

Anyway.....I liked the movie but it's taking a while to process. It was very nihilistic. All the talk of hope, I left with very little.

But it was a beautiful film with great character moments. The Luke/Leia scene was heartbreaking.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Blackcyclops » 19 Dec 2017, 11:34

By the era of the MeToo movement I was referencing our particular historical moment (could’ve said Trump’s America but that was on my mind at the time)...like how intentionally diverse the rebellion was in comparison to the very white and very male First Order was. So no need to “Jesus” me.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by tokenBG1009 » 20 Dec 2017, 08:16

My only complaint with the story of The Last Jedi is Finn again. I feel like they aren't 100% sure what to do with him. In TFA he is basically a vessel to carry Rey's story. In TLJ we, possibly, kill his primary antagonist leaving him without much to do in Episode IX. Rey has a final confrontation with Kylo Ren. Poe is basically the newest leader of the Resistance. If I'm right and Phasma isn't dead it kind of alleviates this, but otherwise, he's almost pointless.

Granted, I think a big part of my opinion here is just how disappointed I've been that Finn has been kind of been in the backseat to Rey's story and hasn't been force sensitive. The trailers of The Force Awakens really put him in a position of being the central character, but that didn't pan out. To me, he hasn't even really been one of the main characters.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Crutey Anth » 21 Dec 2017, 17:48

The redlettermedia guys pretty much sum up all of my issues with the movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Monolith » 22 Dec 2017, 15:40

I enjoyed watching this film, but it was a remarkably poor movie. it was basically a two hour chase scene that was so boring, characters kept leaving the chase to go have other adventures.

Best I can describe it is as a movie that had characters and themes, but no plot. Yes, Hope Is Important. That was very clearly the message of this movie. And a number of characters were moved around from one place in the universe to the next, but...that's it.

Let's look at the overall picture. The movie started with the First Order menacing the Rebellion as they escaped from a rebel base. And the movie ended...with the First Order menacing the Rebellion as they escaped from a rebel base. The "War" did not progress at all in this movie. Lead figures on both sides were killed off and replaced, but the two sides continue in the exact positions they were in when it started. The entire setting of the movie was basically one ship very slowly running away from another.

So much of this movie was pointless from the viewpoint of moving The Trilogy forward. Rei needed to go find Luke Skywalker so we could have Luke Skywalker scenes. By the end of the movie he was dead, the First Order continued, the Rebellion continued, and Rei had, like 2 days of extra Jedi training experience under her belt.

Finn and Rose were given an entirely pointless task to keep their characters busy. They left the fleet, traveled to another world, infiltrated the Dreadnought, got captured, escaped, and returned to the Rebellion all without accomplishing a single thing to progress the plot. There was no POINT to their subplot other than to give them a subplot. (And this is without even delving into the plot contrivances of them being sent after a specific cryptographer, "the one man in all the galaxy" who could pull this off, failing to talk to him, but they just happen to get thrown into a cell with the OTHER one man in all the galaxy who could do the same job. Or how Benicio del Toro managed to betray them by telling the First Order about the cloaked ships leaving the cruiser...which is something neither he, Rose, or Finn could have known anything about. Or...no. I'm stopping.)

I'm a straight white male, but even I wanted to smack the privilege out of Poe Dameron by the time Holdo showed up. Were we supposed to be rooting for this guy? Because all I saw was an entitled piece of sh*t who launched a mutiny against his commanding officers because they didn't pat him on the head enough and tell him what a good boy he was. I audibly groaned in the theatre when Holdo and Leia had their moment after the mutiny saying, "Yeah...I kinda like him." NO! He is not the likeable scamp and rogue with a few rough edges! He lost that when he committed treason!

The character I actually sympathized with the most was Benicio del Toro. Here's why: do you realize this movie ran for 2.5 hours without ever telling us WHY the First Order were the bad guys? Seriously. They were the army fighting the protagonists, but that was it. Nothing was said about horrors they committed that the Rebellion wanted to stop, or the ideals that the Rebellion stood for that the First Order would crush. Nada. All we had was one character LITERALLY SAYING "we're the good guys and they're the bad guys." The closest we got was Rose's speech on the planet about how awful her upbringing was and the passive evils of the war-profiteers at the casino getting rich. But as Benicio del Toro rightly pointed out later on, BOTH sides of the war were buying from the profiteers. And chronologically, the Starkiller only blew up the New Republic capital less than a week ago. So Rose's horrible childhood was under the Republic government.

The takeaway I got from this movie was the rest of the galaxy DGAF about the Order or the Rebellion. These two self-absorbed elitist factions are doing battle "for the fate of the galaxy", but they're both completely cut off from the people in the galaxy they're supposedly representing. It was an ongoing theme in this movie that the Rebels keep calling for help, and NO ONE CARES.

It's a wonderful political allegory, just probably not the one the director was intending. I imagine they saw the New Republic as #Resist and "Never Give Up, Never Surrender" in the face of tyranny. But the real comparison to American politics is the Order and the Republic are the Republicans and Democrats (or vice versa), having their own little wars in Congress and Washington D.C. "for the fate of the country", but even when their leadership changes, nothing else actually does. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is too focused on living day-to-day to worry about higher ideals or economic principles or WHATEVER actually separates the Order and the Republic.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 23 Dec 2017, 05:56

The galaxy seems like it DGAF in the original trilogy too. The planets that don't have active military bases are shown going about their business. We never learn about either side's politics. There's tons of inhuman species but only three individual nonhumans are in the rebellion.

We still don’t have a cinematic Force order that balances the Sith & Jedi. Would it be named the Sidi or the Jeth?

I’m still mad the prequels made Palpatine a normal human that became weird looking from using Force Lightning (that can only be wielded by sadists without cybernetic parts?) instead of always being a wrinkly alien. He could’ve been a Dressellian. Star Wars gets dumber the more it tries to explain things.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by tokenBG1009 » 23 Dec 2017, 07:35

I believe the proper theory for why Vader couldn't use Force Lightning is because it would have damaged his cybernetic parts. He was able to do it, but it was far too dangerous.

Also, Balance to the Force isn't a balance of dark vs light. If there are dark side users then there is no balance. Balance = light side only. The dark side is like cancer that needs to be cut out. At least this was all true prior to the Disney buyout.

Also, I think we saw very clearly that the First Order is bad when they destroyed an entire star system. This is the same way we knew the Empire was bad when they destroyed Alderaan. This may also be why it seems like no one else cares about the fight. They're too afraid.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Nu-D » 26 Dec 2017, 21:08

Blackcyclops wrote:
18 Dec 2017, 13:44
I also love how brightly lit the movie was...like it just reminds you that you don’t gotta film everything in shadows or with drab hues either.
+1000. I didn't actually notice, but that's because I could see what was happening. I do notice the dark, drab colors in other films cause I can't tell what's going on.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Cyke » 30 Dec 2017, 16:18

Blackcyclops wrote:
18 Dec 2017, 23:21
And Snoke just being a space nazi (I still love that Johnson and Abrams go out of there way to show how super-white the First Order is) and him just dying was the perfect end to a macguffin. And for anybody who complains that he didn't get any backstory, well Palpatine didn't either in the films and I think we all accepted him as just "the bad guy". He was less interesting as a presence in TFA than Thanos in any appearance.
Lucas did have a general outline for the Emperor which he then expanded upon in three prequel films that showed his rise to power and his corruptive influence on Anakin. Here in this trilogy though, I am being force-fed the same story beat with little context to justify it. In fact, this is my main problem with these films so far. Abrams, Johnson, the Mouse, they all espouse that they want to push the franchise into new directions, to grow past the saga of the Skywalkers. Okay, that's fine but how are you doing that by repeating the exact same story beats and scenarios from the OT?

When Kylo made his speech to Rei about letting the past burn, all of it, to become who we are meant to be, I could almost get behind that, something new, something interesting. But he then followed that up with the same type of offer to Rei that Vader made to Luke. It killed all momentum for me literally. They're simply re-treading the same ground, with new characters but they haven't shown any real development with them to me that would make me care for their fates.
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Blackcyclops
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Joined: 12 Apr 2007, 21:03

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by Blackcyclops » 30 Dec 2017, 17:32

That’s kind of a cop-out answer to bring in the prequels...by that standard, Johnson can say “hey in 20 years I’ll drop some in-between-quels to fully flesh out Snoke” lol
I'm Team Remender, Waid, Hickman and Gillen

My X-Men Draft Picks:
Prof. X, Legion, Polaris, Quicksilver, Meggan, Deadpool, Pixie, and Danger

LimboMaster
Posts: 75
Joined: 18 Nov 2013, 22:10

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Post by LimboMaster » 31 Dec 2017, 19:29

Monolith wrote:
22 Dec 2017, 15:40
Or how Benicio del Toro managed to betray them by telling the First Order about the cloaked ships leaving the cruiser...which is something neither he, Rose, or Finn could have known anything about. Or...no. I'm stopping.)
Yeah, this really irritated me during the movie. I assume there was something on the cutting room floor that made him aware of the cloaking, but how it played out made no sense in the final cut. On the upside related to this sub-quest I was worried that they were just repeating the smuggler-saves-the-day genre of the Solo/Falcon from Star Wars with Del Toro's role (i.e., semi-bad guy with questionable motives who ends up getting them away from bad guys and saving the day) so I was glad that didn't play out that way in having yet another repeated theme, but the execution was terrible.

The Rose role was ridiculous as well. What exactly was her skill set supposed to be? She was a security guard who happened to be a highly skilled engineer of some sort (or and let's not forget that she's a badass pilot too). In spite of most of the rebellion having been wiped out they can find no better use for her than too guard escape pods? C'mon people.

Luke with Rey and Yoda acting like a naive, immature, petulant child when he's supposedly an aged jedi master? Yoda treating him like a young padawan in schooling him and Luke acting like he did when he was a kid just learning the ways of the force?

There is just no excuse for all of this nonsense.

I totally agree that they should have swapped out Leia for Holdo. We would have lost the Luke and Leia scene at the end but I can think of no better way to have her character be killed off in a totally heroic way and honor Carrie Fisher appropriately. I hope they find a way to accomplish the same thing in IX but since she's supposedly not being edited in, it doesn't seem likely.

I very much like the idea of extending force-strong characters outside of the Skywalker clan but that doesn't explain why Rey was drawn to the Skywalker lightsaber in Force Awakens (maybe her vision when touching it could be explained by general force-sensitivity, but not why she was drawn too it initially). So, I'm not buying that her parents were nobodies. It just doesn't add up. If they hadn't shown her clear connection to the lightsaber I could happily buy that, but either they changed direction from Force Awakens or this is some sort of red herring.

I didn't like it as much as Force Awakens but it was still way better than I, II, III, and VI.

P.S., Love, love, love the new little Chewbacca buddy.

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