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Black Panther

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Spectral Knight
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Spectral Knight » 27 Feb 2018, 20:03

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Re: Black Panther

Post by Nu-D » 02 Mar 2018, 13:48

I don’t know, I guess I’m pretty sympathetic to his criticisms. After all, his is the only African voice I’ve heard on the matter.

Moreover, he criticizes some of the same plot points that I (and others on this board) were criticizing. Specifically, the ritual combat scenes which make little sense, and frankly are leaden with tropes of primitive Africa. The columnist is clear that he thought it was a good movie, but also that it wasn’t able to escape colonial visions of Africa, and I think he’s right.

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Spectral Knight
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Spectral Knight » 02 Mar 2018, 13:56

What route would you propose the movie should have taken to avoid such colonial visions?

Do you think it'd need a rethink of the comics canon to such an extent that it wouldn't be comparable to the source material.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Nu-D » 02 Mar 2018, 14:03

As I said above, I think it would have been easy to set up the royal succession as a democratic process. The hereditary leadership of the five tribes come together and vote one of the five to be BP. The border tribe and the mountain tribe vote against T’Challa, but he wins 3-2. The disaffected border tribe allies with Killmonger to stage a coup d’etat. The plot mechanics generally move the same, but the people are shown to have sophisticated ideas of governance and leadership, rather than primitive ones based on who’s the best hunter gatherer. This would have stripped the most egregious example of colonial vision from the movie.

Most of the other criticisms he had were related to style—the bad dialects in particular, and the hodge-podge of visual styles. I don’t really know what to make of that. Of course, to my eye it all seemed “authentic,” but I have a white American’s view. I can’t tell Swahili from Ubuntu, Malian garb from Ethiopian. I loved the feel of the style, and the casting felt pitch perfect to me. So the suggestion that a more authentic, specific culture should have been drawn doesn’t resonate with me. But I hear and sympathize with the criticism. It would be as though someone wrote a story set in London, but the dialects ranged from cockney to Texas drawl to Fargo, and they dressed like a cross between Canadian lumberjacks and Parisians.

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Gibbering Fool
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Gibbering Fool » 02 Mar 2018, 22:39

Just saw the film. So hot money's on the Soul Gem being in the heart of that vibranium asteroid right? I guess that could explain how the vibranium, via the heart shaped herb, lets a person talk to the dead.

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Re: Black Panther

Post by AntiBody » 02 Mar 2018, 23:16

Gibbering Fool wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 22:39
Just saw the film. So hot money's on the Soul Gem being in the heart of that vibranium asteroid right? I guess that could explain how the vibranium, via the heart shaped herb, lets a person talk to the dead.
Oooh!! I love that!! And could explain why Thanos is coming to Earth - where’s the last stone? Great theory!
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Anna Raven
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 03 Mar 2018, 00:46

Well Ryan Coogler said in an interview they did not want to put the Soul Stone in Black Panther because they considered Vibranium the one "supernatural thing" in their movie. That's not to say they couldn't still have the Soul Stone show up there in Infinity War.
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Gibbering Fool
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Gibbering Fool » 03 Mar 2018, 02:07

Anna Raven wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 00:46
Well Ryan Coogler said in an interview they did not want to put the Soul Stone in Black Panther because they considered Vibranium the one "supernatural thing" in their movie. That's not to say they couldn't still have the Soul Stone show up there in Infinity War.
Yeah it wasn't necessary for this film, it wouldn't add anything, and can be easily revealed in Infinity War

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Re: Black Panther

Post by znop » 03 Mar 2018, 17:46

Did anyone else notice that in the very beginning of the movie Vibrainum was touted to be the "strongest" metal in the universe?
Last edited by znop on 03 Mar 2018, 23:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 03 Mar 2018, 19:30

znop wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 17:46
Did anyone else notice the in the very beginning of the movie Vibrainum was touted to be the "strongest" metal in the universe?
Well Adamantium doesn't even exist right? And Uru might only be found in other dimensions. So it might actually be true.
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Gibbering Fool
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Gibbering Fool » 03 Mar 2018, 21:32

Anna Raven wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 19:30
znop wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 17:46
Did anyone else notice the in the very beginning of the movie Vibrainum was touted to be the "strongest" metal in the universe?
Well Adamantium doesn't even exist right? And Uru might only be found in other dimensions. So it might actually be true.
Seconded

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Re: Black Panther

Post by znop » 03 Mar 2018, 23:16

Well Adamantium doesn't even exist right? And Uru might only be found in other dimensions. So it might actually be true.
Seconded
The two of you are kidding right?

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Anna Raven
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 04 Mar 2018, 00:25

znop wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 23:16
Well Adamantium doesn't even exist right? And Uru might only be found in other dimensions. So it might actually be true.
Seconded
The two of you are kidding right?
Why would I be kidding? Am I missing something? :P
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Gibbering Fool » 04 Mar 2018, 02:58

Anna Raven wrote:
04 Mar 2018, 00:25
znop wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 23:16
Well Adamantium doesn't even exist right? And Uru might only be found in other dimensions. So it might actually be true.
Seconded
The two of you are kidding right?
Why would I be kidding? Am I missing something? :P
There's never been any adamantium in the MCU films, presumably because either a)Fox held the rights or b)Marvel felt it had too strong connections to Wolverine to use. That may change no that Disney has bought Fox studios (is that official now?) but for the time being at least Vibranium is the strongest metal in the MCU

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Anna Raven
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 04 Mar 2018, 03:03

Gibbering Fool wrote:
04 Mar 2018, 02:58
Anna Raven wrote:
04 Mar 2018, 00:25
znop wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 23:16




The two of you are kidding right?
Why would I be kidding? Am I missing something? :P
There's never been any adamantium in the MCU films, presumably because either a)Fox held the rights or b)Marvel felt it had too strong connections to Wolverine to use. That may change no that Disney has bought Fox studios (is that official now?) but for the time being at least Vibranium is the strongest metal in the MCU
Congress still has to approve the deal and until then there is still a chance for it to get mucked up. Comcast recently put in a bid for one of Fox's British properties and if that goes through it's believed Disney may want to renegotiate at the very least.
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XtremeOne1
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Re: Black Panther

Post by XtremeOne1 » 04 Mar 2018, 11:17

I really hope it goes to Disney. No more FOx movies!

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Nu-D
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Nu-D » 05 Mar 2018, 17:01

Anna Raven wrote:
04 Mar 2018, 03:03
Gibbering Fool wrote:
04 Mar 2018, 02:58
Anna Raven wrote:
04 Mar 2018, 00:25


Why would I be kidding? Am I missing something? :P
There's never been any adamantium in the MCU films, presumably because either a)Fox held the rights or b)Marvel felt it had too strong connections to Wolverine to use. That may change no that Disney has bought Fox studios (is that official now?) but for the time being at least Vibranium is the strongest metal in the MCU
Congress still has to approve the deal and until then there is still a chance for it to get mucked up. Comcast recently put in a bid for one of Fox's British properties and if that goes through it's believed Disney may want to renegotiate at the very least.
I believe it’s the FCC that has to approve the deal, not Congress. I think that were Congress to grant that kind of administrative authority to itself, there would be a separation of powers problem.

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Anna Raven
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 05 Mar 2018, 18:50

Nu-D wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 17:01
Anna Raven wrote:
04 Mar 2018, 03:03
Gibbering Fool wrote:
04 Mar 2018, 02:58


There's never been any adamantium in the MCU films, presumably because either a)Fox held the rights or b)Marvel felt it had too strong connections to Wolverine to use. That may change no that Disney has bought Fox studios (is that official now?) but for the time being at least Vibranium is the strongest metal in the MCU
Congress still has to approve the deal and until then there is still a chance for it to get mucked up. Comcast recently put in a bid for one of Fox's British properties and if that goes through it's believed Disney may want to renegotiate at the very least.
I believe it’s the FCC that has to approve the deal, not Congress. I think that were Congress to grant that kind of administrative authority to itself, there would be a separation of powers problem.
Sorry you are right FCC, although I think I did read something about Dems wanting Congressional hearings.
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Milkshake08
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Milkshake08 » 07 Mar 2018, 20:28

This is on it's way to be the first origin film for Marvel to make over $1 billion. It's at $900,000,000 right now. :o

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Re: Black Panther

Post by Blackcyclops » 07 Mar 2018, 20:53

Milkshake08 wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 20:28
This is on it's way to be the first origin film for Marvel to make over $1 billion. It's at $900,000,000 right now. :o

Oh it’s definitely going to make a billion...once it made those records the first week I knew it was making a billi.


Funny thing is some people were saying that It was successful in spite of Disney and it made me laugh...they spent 200 mill on advertising. Disney is NOT in the business of losing money...they make movies with the intention of winning lol...They got Coogler and Jordan for a reason.


And Disney is looking to campaign for this and Mary Poppins for an Oscar next year.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 07 Mar 2018, 21:27

Blackcyclops wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 20:53
Milkshake08 wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 20:28
This is on it's way to be the first origin film for Marvel to make over $1 billion. It's at $900,000,000 right now. :o

Oh it’s definitely going to make a billion...once it made those records the first week I knew it was making a billi.


Funny thing is some people were saying that It was successful in spite of Disney and it made me laugh...they spent 200 mill on advertising. Disney is NOT in the business of losing money...they make movies with the intention of winning lol...They got Coogler and Jordan for a reason.


And Disney is looking to campaign for this and Mary Poppins for an Oscar next year.
I will simultaneously be ecstatic and eye-roll a little if this is the Marvel movie that wins an Oscar. :P
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Re: Black Panther

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 08 Mar 2018, 00:11

It has such good costume porn!

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Re: Black Panther

Post by Wolfthomas » 08 Mar 2018, 06:20

I had a big problem with Erik Killmonger...he wasn't in the film enough. Like I was captivated by him in every scene but they felt really brief to me. I really needed him has the villain of a Netflix style series.

My favourite moment was the spear-breaking scene. It's such a great reference both in universe and meta. Shaka Zulu redefining African warfare with the Assegai short spear, a much more brutal close and personal weapon. Erik Killmonger having studied African history knows this. He's not just doing it for practical reasons but he setting up this symbolic echo on purpose.

While he died more recently I came to the atonishing conclusion that Marvel really could bring any of their dead villains back. It happens in the comics why not in film (at least once?).

If you had a Masters of Evil film post infinity war you could have Zemo and the Enchantress find a way to bring a bunch of dead villains back like Skurge, Killmonger, Whiplash etc back (depends on whose contracts let them/still want to). Plus I think Abomination is still alive (could just use CGI). Actually Whiplash could be just a CGI suit too.

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Re: Black Panther

Post by Milkshake08 » 08 Mar 2018, 23:24

EvilMonkeyPope wrote:
08 Mar 2018, 00:11
It has such good costume porn!
WORD. And get me Shuri's Orange top STAT.

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Re: Black Panther

Post by tokenBG1009 » 15 Mar 2018, 07:41

It's a travesty I haven't been able to see this yet, but today I found one of the articles that I assume BC was talking about with the racist crap people are saying about the movie.

I mean, really? Black Panther is Alt-Right? Black Panther validates the idea of ethno nation-states? What is wrong with people?
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