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Black Panther

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ev82
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Re: Black Panther

Post by ev82 » 17 Oct 2017, 01:05

i'm confused, are there two Black Panthers?
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 17 Oct 2017, 01:07

Is one of them possibly young T'Chaka?

EDIT: I rewatched the trailer - its so hard to catch everything isn't it? I see now they are fighting each other purple (T'Challa) vs. Gold (Killmonger). I guess Killmonger steals a suit.
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tokenBG1009
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Re: Black Panther

Post by tokenBG1009 » 17 Oct 2017, 09:18

I mean, Tom Hiddleston still exists, but I'd take MJB over him.

Also, Killmonger looks to have been the Black Panther for a brief period in the comics.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 02 Feb 2018, 21:20

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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 11 Feb 2018, 00:55

This would have been amazing:

Ryan Coogler Wanted To Put Kraven The Hunter in Black Panther

https://search.app.goo.gl/iXaR
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Cable » 13 Feb 2018, 02:11

With the release almost here, the movie is currently at a very impressive 97% on Rotten Tomatoes. Despite some thought that movie critics might get superhero fatigue, Marvel seems to be able to to keep switching things up just enough to keep it interesting.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Gremlin » 15 Feb 2018, 08:16

Saw this last night. I loved it. The acting, visuals music, plot...all on point.

I was particularly impressed with how much screen time the rest of the cast outside of Black Panther got. All the main cast felt really fleshed out and didn’t feel like supporting roles or anything like that.

I had a couple of minor quibbles such as Shuri being a super genius who literally seems to create anything. I get and applaud the writers for making her smart...but she’s 18-ish, how on Earth can she do all that by herself? Surely there have been super smart scientists before her, where are they? I would have liked a bit more explanation as to how the scientific advancements of a nation came to rest on a teenager.

Aside from a few minor things I thought this was one of the strongest films marvel has done. They have literally created an entirely new country and put so much effort into fleshing it out. The different designs of the Wakandan tribes, the language, the politics...I was very impressed.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by WorldWideWade » 16 Feb 2018, 14:24

This was so good! I echo most of what Gremlin said with a huge nod towards Michael B Jordan.

I never cared much about Black Panther in the comics but Ryan Cooglar has made another phenomenal movie. I need to see it again as I'm not quite ready to declare it my favorite Marvel movie, but it's amazing that I'm even considering it given my history of apathy for the character. The fact that the MCU can take characters I never cared about in the comics (all 3 main Avengers actually) and make some of my favorite movies of all time starring them, speaks to how great Marvel Studios has been. I can't wait for them to actually tackle my favorite characters when the Fox deal goes through.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Blackcyclops » 16 Feb 2018, 16:10

My biggest gripe is that I think the action wasnt as spectacular as I hoped given how great Creed was and I think Boseman’s BP was completely outshined by everyone else in the film. I like the politics of the film but think it could’ve been given more time to breathe. I’m not a person who complains about run time so I could have done with 30 more minutes of film tbh lol
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Crutey Anth » 16 Feb 2018, 16:57

I thought this was a really good movie. I think it was better than Thor 3, Doctor Strange and Guardians 2 and definitely on par with the other top movies (not as good as Winter Soldier or Civil War but still up there). My big thing is they got the tone right for me (the three I mentioned were too lighthearted/slapstick) whereas this one got it perfect- action and drama as the main focus but plenty of comedy thrown in.

Like BC said pretty much everyone outshone BP....but I think that is often going to be a problem with such a serious character who is 'reacting' to things happening around him rather than making decisions/actions.


SPOILERS....



My complaints (mainly not with the movie but 'logic'):


-They need to stop killing villains! I would have really liked seeing Killmonger and Klaw return in future movies- face off against other heroes and now they're dead (those two, Red Skull, Vulture and Zemo are villains I want back)

-I've said it once and I've said it again about BP in comics- trial by combat to pick the nations leader is a stupid idea to sell especially in this day and age. In this the entire nation was about to become a huge terrorist warmongering country and everyone was just going along with it because one guy beat another guy in a fight despite most of them not wanting that. (It also clearly makes BP a dictator but lets not focus on that).

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Re: Black Panther

Post by Magik84 » 16 Feb 2018, 20:37

Crutey Anth wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 16:57
My complaints (mainly not with the movie but 'logic'):


-They need to stop killing villains! I would have really liked seeing Killmonger and Klaw return in future movies- face off against other heroes and now they're dead (those two, Red Skull, Vulture and Zemo are villains I want back)

-I've said it once and I've said it again about BP in comics- trial by combat to pick the nations leader is a stupid idea to sell especially in this day and age. In this the entire nation was about to become a huge terrorist warmongering country and everyone was just going along with it because one guy beat another guy in a fight despite most of them not wanting that. (It also clearly makes BP a dictator but lets not focus on that).
It would have been good to see these villains return, especially when they are more memorable than others and had great potential. That being said I think Killmonger's death scene was really well done. Michael B Jordan was a highlight in this film.

As for the trial by combat, in the case of the movie, it wasn't like Killmonger didn't have support, some people seem to be on board with the idea particularly after he bringing Klaw to them (though I did wonder why T'Challa didn't reveal that the two had been working together)
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 16 Feb 2018, 21:05

Crutey Anth wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 16:57
-I've said it once and I've said it again about BP in comics- trial by combat to pick the nations leader is a stupid idea to sell especially in this day and age. In this the entire nation was about to become a huge terrorist warmongering country and everyone was just going along with it because one guy beat another guy in a fight despite most of them not wanting that. (It also clearly makes BP a dictator but lets not focus on that).
I think this is actually a good point, but I wouldn't say it was necessarily a weakness of the film. To me, one of the big takeaways I got was Wakanda was a nation struggling to find its place because on one hand they are extremely advanced technologically and culturally, but because they've hidden themselves and been isolated for so long, they are stunted politically. They fall back on these traditions that make no sense because a) "its how its always been done and we have this extremely strong connection to our ancestors" and b)its never backfired on us before. Well now scenario B has come to fruition and it has backfired, and that's one of the things that T'Challa is struggling with about pulling Wakanda into the modern world. Honestly, most of us would probably argue that any kind of monarchy is an outdated form of government (no offense to the Brits on our board - but we all realize the Queen is primarily a ceremonial title at this point). But it's one step at a time, first get rid of ritualistic combat, second look at instituting a popular vote.

It's all sort of intertwined into the real-world history of Africa as a struggle between tradition and modernization, and Coogler did a masterful job of illustrating that.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by LockheedAndLoaded » 17 Feb 2018, 19:01

Shuri and M'Baku were definitely the breakout characters here.

Also, I guess Killmonger goes on to confirm that the most compelling MCU villains are the one's who were tragically screwed over. We need more of them rather than "generic rich guys in suits".
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Anna Raven » 17 Feb 2018, 20:22

LockheedAndLoaded wrote:
17 Feb 2018, 19:01
Shuri and M'Baku were definitely the breakout characters here.

Also, I guess Killmonger goes on to confirm that the most compelling MCU villains are the one's who were tragically screwed over. We need more of them rather than "generic rich guys in suits".
Who else would you group in that category? Loki, Zemo, Vulture, and Whiplash come to mind.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by XtremeOne1 » 17 Feb 2018, 22:31

Loved this! Terrific Movie. Definitely my favorite since Civil War, and on par with that as well(definitely placing it in my Top 5, though not sure where. Could be Top 3!).

From top to bottom this was an excellent film. The cast was AMAZING, though I do agree with BC that Black Panther kind of got outshined by the rest, which was no fault of his own. He was the lead and therefore his character had to hold a different burden then the rest. It's kind of the Buffy-syndrome(I'm talking about likable season 1-5 Buffy). Boseman was excellent, the character was excellent, the costume is my favorite superhero costume of all time, so there was no fault at all in the character/actor.

Shuri was amazing. Letitia Wright needs to be in more stuff. Shuri was Funny, smart and charismatic. Here's hoping they find more opportunities for her to shine as, IMO, that kind of character is important. A young, black, woman in STEM? Who goes out and fights when needs be? In today's terrible environment, those are roles that need to be seen. But yeah, outside of that, she was an amazing character. Future Black Panther, please?

The supporting cast was top notch. Each had a function role in the film, beyond cameo or "I'm servicing a plot function and nothing more!" Nakia and Okoya were badass but I also like that they struggled with their roles in Wakanada too. Tradition vs modernization.

And Michael B. Jordan was, as always, perfect. I actually teared up as his death scene. I don't normally do that for villains!!

Also, can I say Angela Basset with the white hair made me WANT to cry HARD. Ugh, #ThatsMyStorm. Seriously, I don't care if she's considered " too old" for Storm by Hollywood standards, I'll take her!

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Re: Black Panther

Post by Blackcyclops » 18 Feb 2018, 01:32

I just think Boseman feels more like what people who didn’t read Priest’s BP think BP is like, whereas an actor like Michael B. Jordan would have KILLED in the role. But just as Hemsworth and Evans took time to fully fit their roles, I think Boseman will too. Wright killed it from jump though...if there weren’t other Black women in the film I’d have rolled my eyes because then she’d be the anti-stereotype role which is just as grating as a stereotype. But the diversity overall allows there to be a variety of Black women types. And given how well she was received when they filmed it, Fiege had the Russos put her more in the following films (same with Thompson lol).
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Monolith » 18 Feb 2018, 03:48

Everett K. Ross as a kickass fighter pilot?

...

Imma need a minute here.

...

Okay.

Regardless, this movie was fantastic. Exceptional reimagining of a number of characters while still maintaining the core essence of the characters. Except for Shuri. Her they wrapped in layers of Queen Divine Justice and Q from Bond. But since Shuri has never been remotely interesting as character in 13 years, I accept these changes.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by LockheedAndLoaded » 18 Feb 2018, 08:29

I like Martin Freeman, but Ross is a discount Agent Coulson.

Seriously, he's the polite, straight-faced government man whose dry humor comes from how he's an everyman among superbeings...
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Re: Black Panther

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 19 Feb 2018, 00:14

Image
Why would you cast Serkis as a character ideally suited to mo-cap without letting him play a mo-cap character? This was my biggest gripe. The movie is so good even my nitpicks underwhelm me. Having too many compelling characters is a good problem to have.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Nu-D » 19 Feb 2018, 14:21

Well, all the hype and BlackCyclops’ mild guilt-trip caused me to go see this in the theater instead of waiting for it to stream on prime. Also, I wanted to see it before Infinity War. Overall, I liked it a lot. In particular, the performances of the five leads—Jordan, Boseman, Nyong’O, Wright and Gurira were all exceptional.

Despite liking it, I do have some criticisms.

I did find the he plotting to be a little ropey. As others have pointed out, ascension to the throne by hand-to-hand combat is an idiotic idea, and plays on stereotypes of African primitives. All the dancing and chanting really played up the hokey colonial ideas in those scenes. Those two scenes had the poorest effects, with the green-screened waterfall painfully obvious. When the second combat scene began, I groaned aloud. I strongly disliked that part of the film.

It would have made a lot more sense to have T’Challa ascend to the throne more democratically, but with two of the five tribes dissenting (the border tribe and the mountain tribe). Then Killmonger could use the disaffected border tribe to stage a violent coup d’etat. The ritual combat scenes could have been cut. This would more realistically depict some post-colonial African politics. Indeed, there could have been hints that Killmonger was secretly supported by the CIA to infiltrate/overthrow Wakanda. I know Wakanda is not supposed to be post-colonial, but if there’s a thread of CIA interference, it could be used to portray how colonialism grave rise to some of the strife in modern Africa by sowing discord between tribes.

This also would have also made the characters motivations more realistic. The justification for the border tribe’s alliance with Killmonger was thin, to say the least. And there were too many times when characters did an about-face for no good reason (the leader of the mountain people refusing to help, without explaining why, and then turning up to help anyhow, without explaining why. The leader of the border tribe’s abrupt about face had an express, but pretty shallow reason). Genuine tribal unrest would have laid a stronger ground for the character’s shifting alliances.

I liked Wright a lot, but I thought she should have been shown as a prodigy within a larger department, not the sole scientist in the entire film. I really liked the early scene with her remote driving the car, because I thought it played well with the idea that she’s not physically fit for combat, but can participate remotely; that was undercut by putting her in combat in the third act.

The scripting was hit-or-miss. Some of it was fantastic—particularly Wright’s lines, and Jordan at the British Museum—but there were some parts that were really stilted, like the flashback scenes to Oakland. On the other hand, I loved, loved, loved hearing the Xhosa language being spoken. I have no idea, of course, whether the actors did a good job, but to my ears it gave a real authentic feel.

Couple that with the art and costumes, and I felt effectively immersed in an Afro-futurist world. Two things took me out of that; the ritual combat, and the battle scenes with clubs and swords. The latter I was able to overlook; the former, as I said above, really was jarringly inappropriate.

I liked that the handful of white people were all ridiculous. Klaue, the CIA agent and the European diplomat in the end-credits scene all deflated the white-centric worldview nicely. The CIA guy getting barked into submission was hilarious on a meta level. “You have nothing of value to say here, white man.” It was pitch perfect.

I would have liked a little more of a tie-in to the other films; some short scene with Cap or Tony somehow playing in to the plot. Not too much to distract from the overall Afro-centric tableau, but just enough to tie it more tightly to the actual MCU continuity instead of just through the flashback to Civil War. As it is, if you’re trying to follow the MCU up through Infinity War, you could skip this and not miss a beat. I think that’s unfortunate.

But again, some of the acting was fabulous, and the visual and sonic experience was marvelous. The weak plotting and up-and-down scripting puts this movie squarely in the middle of the MCU pack, IMO.
Last edited by Nu-D on 19 Feb 2018, 14:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Black Panther

Post by Blackcyclops » 19 Feb 2018, 14:30

Don’t say that NuD that makes me feel bad...we might disagree greatly about comic stuff but as a general worldview thing, we are on the same wavelength and I’d never want to hit you with guilt like that bro.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Nu-D » 19 Feb 2018, 14:33

Blackcyclops wrote:
19 Feb 2018, 14:30
Don’t say that NuD that makes me feel bad...we might disagree greatly about comic stuff but as a general worldview thing, we are on the same wavelength and I’d never want to hit you with guilt like that bro.
Oh, I deserved it. I should have understood how important it was to go see this in the theater. I just needed a nudge.

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Re: Black Panther

Post by Magik84 » 19 Feb 2018, 14:38

Nu-D wrote:
19 Feb 2018, 14:21


I would have liked a little more of a tie-in to the other films; some short scene with Cap or Tony somehow playing in to the plot. Not too much to distract from the overall Afro-centric tableau, but just enough to tie it more tightly to the actual MCU continuity instead of just through the flashback to Civil War. As it is, if you’re trying to follow the MCU up through Infinity War, you could skip this and not miss a beat. I think that’s unfortunate.
With so many marvel films I'm at the stage where I prefer if they are more standalone, I thought the call back to Civil War and Bucky in the after credits was enough. Otherwise you can get something like Thor:Ragnarok where you have the out of place forced appearance of Dr Strange.
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Re: Black Panther

Post by AntiBody » 19 Feb 2018, 15:16

Just wanted to drop in and say that I'm seeing this today and I AM SO EXCITED!! Avoiding press and spoilers has been a little challenging, but the day is here!! Can't wait to share my thoughts later!!
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Re: Black Panther

Post by Blackcyclops » 19 Feb 2018, 15:23

I thought Strange’s appearance was pretty much on point cause of his position...

Watching this again with clearer eyes and my fiancée with me, I think my views on the movie have cooled. I think as an “origin” (aka first) solo film its pretty good. It’s about tied with Spidey with me. I don’t think it’s as good as the team films or any subsequent Cap sequel or Iron Man 1...


And my fiancee made the point that she thinks that part of the reason the film is getting such glowing reviews is that no mainstream white film critic wants to be known as the person who came down on Black Panther and no Black critic wants to be that Black person...and she thinks that shifts over to the general audience as well. She thinks that years down the line if more representation does occur (as the trajectory suggests) BP will be looked back on much more critically. I think that of course some people do love it because they love it but after watching it again without the sheen of “Blackness in the Trump era”, I agree with her in alot of ways. Of course that’s not a shot at anyone who did love it though...so please nobody take it the wrong way.
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