Blackcyclops wrote: ↑
10 Mar 2019, 21:30
P-90 wrote: ↑
10 Mar 2019, 21:10
Nu-D wrote: ↑
10 Mar 2019, 20:46
See, that’s an interesting take and one I wouldn’t have picked up on because I’m a guy and I don’t have that experience very often.
Which was exactly Larson’s point when she said we need more reviews by minorities and we don’t need more reviews by white dudes.
Which is one of the comments people have issue with, just saying 'we need more' of something doesn't always adhere to the reality of the situation, if you're doing press junkets in western nations then of course the majority of those you talk to will be white, most of the people and most of the characters in our media will be white, that in of itself is not a problem nor is it an 'issue' that needs to be addressed (For instance In the US non-Hispanic whites are 77% of the population, the second largest ethnic group is African Americans at 12%, here in the UK the population is 87% white with the black Afro-Caribbean population only making up just 3% of the populace)
Now if you're saying that there needs to be more better written, less one dimensional minority characters then yes, I completely agree.
I mean since you do love to pull out your stats, shouldn’t we say it’s discriminatory if it isn’t perfectly matching those statistics you consistently roll out as a defense? Lol
And for the love of Doom, stop misrepresenting our stats in the US. Non-hispanic whites are only 60% of the population (and that’s shaky given our undocumented population). We are on our way (estimates now put it as close as 2040/-ish) to being a minority majority country.
And as Several reports point out EVERY year TV and film are not nearly close to that (except on TV characters for Blacks in 2018...we made it baby!). Which is the funny part, you’d have no problem if the representation goes in the mainly white/malr direction. Then it’s just “normal”. It’s only an issue when other people want a seat at the table.
It’s prolly be a real issue if representation smore closely match the state TV and film are made in then the US as a whole. Atlanta and Cali are pretty diverse states lol
Wow, you have an uncanny knack for coming to conclusions about what I 'mean' and what I 'would or wouldn't' have a problem with despite neither of those things being alluded to in any part of the words that I've actually posted, it's quite the talent.
I may have been mistaken (there are many sites with conflicting numbers, some say 60% others over 70% but as you said, who knows given the non documented immigration), even so, I still stand by my original point, at least 60% of people in the US are Caucasian, that still's the huge majority of people with the next minority group coming in a just 12%. If you're doing a press tour in US it shouldn't take a genius IQ to realise that the majority of people you interact with will be white and once again that's not actually in any way wrong in the same way as if you were doing a tour of Nigeria most people you speak to will be black.
I've noticed that many people on the extreme left and right don't accept statistics when they don't adhere to their own views, sadly for them facts don't care about feelings. Why shouldn't statistics be used to defend untrue accusation of discrimination? if you're a black actor in the UK accusing the nation of 'institutional racism' because of the lack of black faces in our media (which we've had happen and is in no way true anyway) why shouldn't we be able to shut down such unfairness with the truth, why can't truth and frankly just common sense about a situation be used to dismiss a claim without being labelled racist just because they go against something 'woke'. Just because someone is championing something that seems righteous doesn't make it's automatically correct nor does it make anyone who questions it automatically anti the intention.
If you or I grew up as part of the minority white and black population in in say, Japan or South Korea how seriously would we be taken if we began decrying the overly high number of Asian people/characters in the media or we we're openly accusing the nation of racism because of the lack of jobs for white/black actors? how is that any different from black actors saying the same in a traditionally/predominantly white nation. Western based media is the single most diverse media on the planet, no other media even comes close yet it's western based media that is endlessly being accused of racism and discrimination by minority groups within those nations, it's not just unfair it's actually just not true.
Honestly it's the blinding double standards that irritate me.
1) The race of a black or Asian character, no matter how minor is seen as sacrosanct and is met with accusations of racism/cultural appropriation if changed yet somehow the race of a white character, even a world famous industry icon doesn't matter and if anyone complains about such a change they're just racist. Personally I believe all characters should be treated with equal respect when it comes to casting them in live action, no established character with an existing fan base should be changed, no matter what that change may be (race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality etc.) especially when that change is wholly unnecessary. I don't want to see a black Human Torch anymore than I want to see a white Blade. I've seen untold female, black and Asian fans say the same, they want to see the characters they grew up with fully realised on screen, they don't want to be pandered to and they find the whole race/gender swapping of established character condescending. But I suppose because I'm white my opinion on the subject doesn't matter.
As I stated before I've spent a lot of time (probably too much if I'm honest) watching reaction videos to movie trailers, you want to know what I noticed? a huge huge number of them were female, black and Asian fans, there are literally thousands of clips (featuring single viewers to whole groups of people) and not a single person seemed to have any problem 'Identifying' with the characters, not one was complaining about the characters being predominantly white males, they were all just ecstatic to see the characters they love on screen. I've always believed genuine fans don't use race or gender as an indicator as to whether they like a character or whether they'd pick up a title or not but could never really point to anything tangible to prove that point, now because of these reaction videos I believe I was correct all along.
If race is so damn important to some people, if seeing someone of their own (in this case non white) ethnicity is a primary factor behind whether they can identify with a character then there a entire industries featuring almost solely black and Asian characters in traditionally/predominantly black and Asian nations. These entertainment industries are an accurate representation of the nations in which they're based, why then in predominantly white nations where obviously white people/characters are the majority is this seen as wrong or discriminatory.
2) The whole 'cultural appropriation' argument rarely stands. All movie/entertainment industries on the planet take stories from elsewhere and tailor them to better suit their target audiences including casting their own bankable stars, western based media in no different. White actors playing gods in the 'Gods of Egypt' movie was met with cries of racism and cultural appropriations (despite them being mythical, known shape-changers) yet those same people who made such a fuss were perfectly fine with black actors portraying characters from Norse mythology (Heimdall, Valkyrie etc.) and openly accused anyone who queried that casting of being racist. Norse mythology is a part of the culture of millions of people across Europe, why is their culture deemed less important, why are their wishes about how their culture is represented ignored.
The 'Ghost in the Shell' movie was another perfect example of this double standard, not only was the character supposed to look completely different to her original body (that was kind of the point of the movie) when asked the Japanese themselves had no issues with the movie. They were mostly excited that something of 'theirs' was getting the big budget Hollywood treatment and were perfectly fine with casting a western actor, in fact not only did they expect that to happen some even said they preferred that to a 'non-Japanese' Asian pretending to be Japanese. Once again it was a minority in the US who were the ones crying foul, they even had the audacity to say that the Japanese 'were wrong' and that they 'didn't understand' I mean seriously, how condescending can you be.
What about Apu in the Simpsons, there's recently been a call to axe him from the show (or at least change his voice actor) why? yes he's a stereotype but so are all the characters in that show, that's kind of the point. No his accent isn't a true representation of an Indian accent but neither does Willy have a genuine Scottish accent. What's more is that Apu is generally liked, he's as popular as any other characters in that show, him being Indian doesn't matter to any of the fans, he's treated the same as the rest. Surely that's a good thing.
And yes I'll revisit the whole unfair furor over the Iron Fist TV show where Marvel was accused of racism for casting a white actor to play a long established white character. As I said I don't want any established character changed but in this case Danny's race is an important aspect of his characterisation. He's the noticeable outsider in K'un-Lun who had to train and fight harder than anyone else just to gain acceptance. Then having spent his formative years in K'un-Lun he again feels like the outsider when he returns to New York. His race is also important as a comment on race relations when it comes to his sibling-like relationship with Luke Cage. There's no cultural appropriations as K'un-Lun isn't real, it's a mystic city state situated in another dimension founded by aliens. The white saviour trope doesn't stand either, there have been over 60 Iron Fist's throughout history, Danny is only the second white man to hold the title. Also in the real world anyone from anywhere can become martial arts champions. If a white person being a better martial artists than most Asian's equals 'white saviour' then that would make characters such as Batman and Daredevil white saviours, it would also make someone like Blade a 'black saviour'
The worst part of this was when comic book writer Marjorie Liu called out the casting when she as someone in the industry should know the importance of Danny's race and know how the fans would react to such ridiculousness. We also had the actress Chloe Bennett backing the change, which is frankly laughable given that she's primarily known for playing a character that was race swapped from white to Asian and who stars in a show where multiple white characters have been changed.
But no let's all ignore all his established history, important aspects of his character, the wishes of the actual fans of the character and race swap him to Asian, why? because he does Kung-Fu
Oh and of course if you disagree you're racist.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'