Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[Jindianajonz]

Well, I guess I'm in the minority here. There were a ton of great moments in this film, but overall it left me luke warm

Spoiler: show

The movie was about showing that Shuri can step into the role of Black Panther, and that Wakanda is in good hands- but damn, the country didn't fare well here at all. She and Okoye botched what should have been a simple retrieval mission for Riri, they get their asses handed to them when Atlantis invades and kills the queen, they have moderate success in the sea battle at first, but as soon as the much-portented Midnight Angel armor launched, the Wakandans literally found themselves pushed up against a cliff. By the time Namor announced they were retreating, it didn't feel like a victory as much as a mercy, and certainly didn't give me faith that they'd be able to navigate the next crisis. If there's any reassurance to be had from this film, it's the stinger that reveals "don't worry, Shuri won't be on the throne for long", which is almost certainly not the intended message.

In retrospect, the earlier scenes of Wakanda standing up to the powers of the world felt especially hubiristic after seeing their military revealed for a paper tiger. And as somebody who works in national security, it was really hard to get behind Ross who absolutely belongs in jail regardless of his intentions- he actively worked against the United States for the betterment of a competitor.

I like that the movie had the courage to play with anti-colonialism and grievances against the Western World, but I was very disappointed by the execution.

[Magnus]

Spoiler: show

If there's any reassurance to be had from this film, it's the stinger that reveals "don't worry, Shuri won't be on the throne for long", which is almost certainly not the intended message.

Spoiler: show

Keep in mind though the mantle of Black Panther and the monarch of Wakanda are not tied together - T'Challa was BP while T'Chaka was king, for example. While not 100% confirmed, it certainly seems like M'Baku is going to be King of Wakanda now, while Shuri is the Black Panther (and not Queen). T'Challa Jr. could certainly be either (or both) in the future, but no guarantee he'd be either. Though I think every BP has been part of the same family, so, good chance he'd be BP eventually.

[XtremeOne1]

The movie is in its third week. We’re good on spoiler tags haha.

And Shuri very purposefully passed the throne to M’Baku. She wants to be Black Panther and continue sciencing it up

[Spectral Knight]

Spoiler: show

If there's any reassurance to be had from this film, it's the stinger that reveals "don't worry, Shuri won't be on the throne for long", which is almost certainly not the intended message.

Spoiler: show

Keep in mind though the mantle of Black Panther and the monarch of Wakanda are not tied together - T'Challa was BP while T'Chaka was king, for example. While not 100% confirmed, it certainly seems like M'Baku is going to be King of Wakanda now, while Shuri is the Black Panther (and not Queen). T'Challa Jr. could certainly be either (or both) in the future, but no guarantee he'd be either. Though I think every BP has been part of the same family, so, good chance he'd be BP eventually.

I think I understood it was the BP mantle was one by rights as the monarch's, but that s/he could delegate the role of BP to someone else. So T'Chaka initially was BP, but passed on the mantle when he was too old/ too fat. (According to T'Challa). But when Kilmonger won the throne he also won the right to be the BP.

[Jindianajonz]

Spoiler: show

Keep in mind though the mantle of Black Panther and the monarch of Wakanda are not tied together - T'Challa was BP while T'Chaka was king, for example. While not 100% confirmed, it certainly seems like M'Baku is going to be King of Wakanda now, while Shuri is the Black Panther (and not Queen). T'Challa Jr. could certainly be either (or both) in the future, but no guarantee he'd be either. Though I think every BP has been part of the same family, so, good chance he'd be BP eventually.

Thanks for that. I was really confused with that last scene of M'Baku showing up to the challenge

[Cable]

For those of us that didn't see this in theaters, it has been announced to release on Disney+ on February 1.

[Cable]

I didn't watch it in theaters, watched it on Disney Plus this week. With some of the acclaim for it I was surprised by how poor it was. At least by Marvel standards. It did have some positive qualities of course, like a real emotional weight due to the fact that these actors' portrayals of grief were quite real, but it also suffered some bad writing, overall narrative bloat (I'm pretty sure if you removed every single Martin Freeman scene the movie would be unchanged...), and also looked ugly (not the fault of the costumes or set designers who did great). I thought this might just be because I watched it on the small screen, but searching I see some critics thought the same about the visuals on the big screen. Overall Phase 4 of Marvel has been a pretty disappointing round of film-making in my opinion, with Shang-Chi, Dr Strange, Thor, and Black Panther all having real potential but ultimately falling short due to some bad directorial decisions (the exception this phase is the nearly flawless No Way Home).

You do wonder what movie would have happened if we still had Boseman. The mid-credits scene with his child felt so awkwardly forced given the near total aromantic relationship of T'Challa and Nakia that we saw. I also thought the initial set-up of this film was kind of a slap in the face of some of the great work he did in the first. When he confronts the ancestors to tell them they were wrong to turn their back on the rest of the world it might be the best scene of that movie. And the movie ends with him sending that message out to the world. And then this one opens with them basically going back to "all of you suck, f*#$ you" lol. It just felt like the first movie had some intellectual heft and this one had none. Considering Michael B Jordan is gone from the franchise it is a bad sign when the best part of this movie is when his character shows up!

[EphemeristX]

T'Challa and Nakia cemented their relationship at the end of the first movie. The son storyline, afaik, was always going to happen.

Wakanda's tensions with the world are directly explained. A number of countries are outright hiring mercs to obtain vibranium.

Sorry you didn't like it. I loved it.

[Cable]

T'Challa and Nakia cemented their relationship at the end of the first movie. The son storyline, afaik, was always going to happen.

The problem with their barely existing relationship I don't think was a fault of the Black Panther movies, but of Marvel Studios as a whole deciding their house style would be films that are completely unsexy (I specify movies because on the tv side they did get a bit more raunchy in She-Hulk. And Thor's ass doesn't count because its played for laughs lol).

[Blackcyclops]

He’s not wrong…until Phase 4 we really only ever got anything close to romance from Pepper and Tony. And that’s really because RDJ is just SO charismatic that he comes across like he’s flirting with everybody. Shit I thought him and Chris Evans was gone make out lol

Until we got Eternals, there really hasn’t been any sexy. I mean Zendaya and Tom are an actual couple and have chemistry but compare there romance to Tobey and Kirsten…that shit was SEXY.

[tokenBG1009]

The one thing I could definitively say about the romance in the Raimi films is sexy isn't in the top 100 words I'd use to describe it.

It's always interesting, to me, how DC and Marvel have various points in their movies that the other does so much better. For DC it's 100% relationships. Which is funny considering DC's more depressing tone. Maybe they figure "We're making movies for ADULTS! We can have romance!"