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Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

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tokenBG1009
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by tokenBG1009 » 11 Jun 2022, 05:18

Yeah, I think a lot of the issues Kamala's mom has are due to thing her own mother dealt with. She seems to really be pushing Kamala from daydreaming of superheroes in particular and I think the family history is why.

Regardless, this was fantastic! I loved Kamala's family. Her brother is a little weak on character so far but he's clearly a loving big brother. I don't know much about Muslim culture and family, but as a black man it felt very authentic to what I'd expect of another minority family.

I know this show probably won't get the hype of the other Disney+ shows due to it being targeted younger and it being more upbeat than the other shows but this is easily my favorite first episode of the five shows so far.
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by Anna Raven » 11 Jun 2022, 17:11

Yeah I was pleasantly surprised. I figured that if they were making that many radical changes to her powers and origin of her powers, they would not hold a lot of respect for the other source material, but it was exactly the opposite. Every one of the secondary characters was completely spot on personality-wise from the comic, and Kamala, while a little younger and more innocent than I imagined her worked as well. I definitely will eat crow and say this is a show worth watching, even if I will still grumble just a tiny bit that she's basically a purple lantern.
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by das_boot » 12 Jun 2022, 14:01

Spectral Knight wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 08:23
Maybe, I dunno. It's just weird as going back to my primary school (more than a quarter of a decade now...I say, counting my grey hairs!) and most of the British Muslims in my year (or immediately above/below) were 2nd or 3rd generation, and I'm not sure the family aspects really aligned with their experience, so seeing the stereotypes as personified by Kamala's mum + dad feels very passé. Not that some of those kids didn't have conservative families and expectations of academic performance, but I think even then there was a much more relaxed feel.
I think that very much depends on whether they were second or third generation SK. I had friends in school who were second generation Pakistani-British, and I had friends who were third generation, and the difference was marked. Second generation (as in, their parents were born in the UK too) still held a fair amount of rigidity to Islamic culture and trappings, and while things like arranged marriages not being enforced, and not being allowed to socialise with the opposite gender was seen as unrealistic, they wouldn’t be allowed to sit in on lessons about sex education, drugs education, and the girls weren’t allowed to take swimming lessons. Meanwhile, my friends who were third generation were actively encouraged to integrate more, with the caveat that they were still encouraged to behave more conservatively and would often either not be allowed to go to parties, or otherwise had to be home significantly earlier/not allowed to stay over. I didn’t find anything about this particularly unrealistic, and if anything? Her mother’s emphasis on “get your head out of the clouds and figure your life out” felt very authentic if I were to compare it to the experiences of my friends— one of my friends was an incredible artist, but his family basically insisted that he choose degrees with a business/accountancy leaning because “that’s guaranteed income and a sound investment”. I also saw the girls being treated more strictly than their brothers element too. Honestly I agree that you’re probably right in that it was maybe emphasised for dramatic effect/conflict purposes here, but I think you also need to consider the context that even in the MCU, this is a series that takes place in a post 9/11 world. Kamala (and probably her brother) are people who were born in to an America with a heavy bias against Islam. I think the element of protectiveness is justified given that you can rationalise that Kamala’s parents were more than likely treated with an element of suspicion and hostility due to this. Also, maybe I’m wrong, but if Kamala’s grandmother from Pakistan is sending stuff over to America for them, that implies to me that Kamala and her brother are actually the first generation born in the US, which… it kind of trends that they’d be slightly stricter.

AAAAANYWAY.

I tried reading Ms Marvel and something about the series didn’t click for me. That’s cool, she’s still a character I enjoy when she shows up in other titles I just didn’t quite mesh with the title— but I’ll also defend to the death that Kamala is an important character for multiple reasons and her story is important, and therefore this series is important.

I loved this. Kamala was SUCH a darling, and I think as an audience we’re meant to feel very protective of her. She’s cool AF and I loved her. I love the style of this, I love the meshing of comic-book art stuff in the background of the scenes, and overall it was very well acted I thought.

The powers… hm. Okay. I kind of liked them. Sure, it’s not comics accurate but I also don’t think we’re going to get comics accurate Photon either, but that’s another matter. I hope that the band awakened her powers and it was something inherent within her, and not just a MacGuffin that grants her powers because honestly, the metaphor of “the power was inside you all along” is something that I feel is quite important for the character arc as we’ve seen so far. I loved the organic “no this is the character’s culture and we’re just not going to explain things, it’s there, deal with it” approach to their home life and culture, even nods as small as her father watching cricket on TV (a very popular sport in India and Pakistan). I loved that Kamala wanted to bring something of herself to her cosplay, that was SO lovely and immediately paves the way for her to design her own costume with nods to her heritage.

Overall this was just FUN. Kamala feels like a character we could reasonably expect to interact with the MCU’s Spider-Man, and what I feel worked really well here was that she maintained a more realistic hero worship of the Avengers than, say, Kate Bishop, while we also haven’t seen her being this kind of hyper-competent wunderkind who’ll know a million martial arts and how to fight immediately.

Ugh. I loved this.
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by sambadaemon » 13 Jun 2022, 02:30

das_boot wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 14:01
Spectral Knight wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 08:23
Maybe, I dunno. It's just weird as going back to my primary school (more than a quarter of a decade now...I say, counting my grey hairs!) and most of the British Muslims in my year (or immediately above/below) were 2nd or 3rd generation, and I'm not sure the family aspects really aligned with their experience, so seeing the stereotypes as personified by Kamala's mum + dad feels very passé. Not that some of those kids didn't have conservative families and expectations of academic performance, but I think even then there was a much more relaxed feel.
I think that very much depends on whether they were second or third generation SK. I had friends in school who were second generation Pakistani-British, and I had friends who were third generation, and the difference was marked. Second generation (as in, their parents were born in the UK too) still held a fair amount of rigidity to Islamic culture and trappings, and while things like arranged marriages not being enforced, and not being allowed to socialise with the opposite gender was seen as unrealistic, they wouldn’t be allowed to sit in on lessons about sex education, drugs education, and the girls weren’t allowed to take swimming lessons. Meanwhile, my friends who were third generation were actively encouraged to integrate more, with the caveat that they were still encouraged to behave more conservatively and would often either not be allowed to go to parties, or otherwise had to be home significantly earlier/not allowed to stay over. I didn’t find anything about this particularly unrealistic, and if anything? Her mother’s emphasis on “get your head out of the clouds and figure your life out” felt very authentic if I were to compare it to the experiences of my friends— one of my friends was an incredible artist, but his family basically insisted that he choose degrees with a business/accountancy leaning because “that’s guaranteed income and a sound investment”. I also saw the girls being treated more strictly than their brothers element too. Honestly I agree that you’re probably right in that it was maybe emphasised for dramatic effect/conflict purposes here, but I think you also need to consider the context that even in the MCU, this is a series that takes place in a post 9/11 world. Kamala (and probably her brother) are people who were born in to an America with a heavy bias against Islam. I think the element of protectiveness is justified given that you can rationalise that Kamala’s parents were more than likely treated with an element of suspicion and hostility due to this. Also, maybe I’m wrong, but if Kamala’s grandmother from Pakistan is sending stuff over to America for them, that implies to me that Kamala and her brother are actually the first generation born in the US, which… it kind of trends that they’d be slightly stricter.

AAAAANYWAY.

I tried reading Ms Marvel and something about the series didn’t click for me. That’s cool, she’s still a character I enjoy when she shows up in other titles I just didn’t quite mesh with the title— but I’ll also defend to the death that Kamala is an important character for multiple reasons and her story is important, and therefore this series is important.

I loved this. Kamala was SUCH a darling, and I think as an audience we’re meant to feel very protective of her. She’s cool AF and I loved her. I love the style of this, I love the meshing of comic-book art stuff in the background of the scenes, and overall it was very well acted I thought.

The powers… hm. Okay. I kind of liked them. Sure, it’s not comics accurate but I also don’t think we’re going to get comics accurate Photon either, but that’s another matter. I hope that the band awakened her powers and it was something inherent within her, and not just a MacGuffin that grants her powers because honestly, the metaphor of “the power was inside you all along” is something that I feel is quite important for the character arc as we’ve seen so far. I loved the organic “no this is the character’s culture and we’re just not going to explain things, it’s there, deal with it” approach to their home life and culture, even nods as small as her father watching cricket on TV (a very popular sport in India and Pakistan). I loved that Kamala wanted to bring something of herself to her cosplay, that was SO lovely and immediately paves the way for her to design her own costume with nods to her heritage.

Overall this was just FUN. Kamala feels like a character we could reasonably expect to interact with the MCU’s Spider-Man, and what I feel worked really well here was that she maintained a more realistic hero worship of the Avengers than, say, Kate Bishop, while we also haven’t seen her being this kind of hyper-competent wunderkind who’ll know a million martial arts and how to fight immediately.

Ugh. I loved this.
Re interacting with spiderman: we think of Kamala as being young, but she's 16. That's only a year or two younger than Peter. He's just now graduated high school

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by Blackcyclops » 13 Jun 2022, 04:09

If you get into the weird McU math of the Blip and everything then Kamala was born 16 years ago whereas Peter was born 23(?) years ago right?
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by sambadaemon » 13 Jun 2022, 12:50

Blackcyclops wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 04:09
If you get into the weird McU math of the Blip and everything then Kamala was born 16 years ago whereas Peter was born 23(?) years ago right?
Yeah, but as Flash found out to his detriment, those years don't count. Also, I guess Kate Bishop passed Peter in age, too?

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by das_boot » 13 Jun 2022, 21:50

sambadaemon wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 12:50
Blackcyclops wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 04:09
If you get into the weird McU math of the Blip and everything then Kamala was born 16 years ago whereas Peter was born 23(?) years ago right?
Yeah, but as Flash found out to his detriment, those years don't count. Also, I guess Kate Bishop passed Peter in age, too?
Was it confirmed that Kate didn’t blip? Honestly, I consider Hawkeye to be the weakest of the series so far so I’m not sure I remember it correctly, but I can’t remember her saying that she did or didn’t blip
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by EphemeristX » 13 Jun 2022, 22:27

I'm guessing no due to her age during the Battle of New York. For her to be an adult college student, she couldn't have blipped.
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by sambadaemon » 14 Jun 2022, 01:22

das_boot wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 21:50
sambadaemon wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 12:50
Blackcyclops wrote:
13 Jun 2022, 04:09
If you get into the weird McU math of the Blip and everything then Kamala was born 16 years ago whereas Peter was born 23(?) years ago right?
Yeah, but as Flash found out to his detriment, those years don't count. Also, I guess Kate Bishop passed Peter in age, too?
Was it confirmed that Kate didn’t blip? Honestly, I consider Hawkeye to be the weakest of the series so far so I’m not sure I remember it correctly, but I can’t remember her saying that she did or didn’t blip
Probably not, but I was just referring to her being at least a year into college and Peter just graduating from high school in No Way Home

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by das_boot » 15 Jun 2022, 05:48

Also, reading Ms Marvel on Unlimited— If the series is following the comics, Kamala’s parents mention that they moved from Pakistan to America— so Kamala and her brother are first generation Pakistani-American
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by sambadaemon » 16 Jun 2022, 13:04

Really enjoyed this week's episode. Kamala's great-grandmother's name jumped out at me. We've seen someone else with that name in the past in the MCU.
Spoiler: show
And a Kingo reference!

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by Blackcyclops » 16 Jun 2022, 13:31

The more I see this show, the more I want her and Peter to meet up. Like I can imagine Peter trying to act all mature and older than Ms. Marvel but she just keep poking holes in it lol
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by XtremeOne1 » 16 Jun 2022, 17:45

sambadaemon wrote:
16 Jun 2022, 13:04
Really enjoyed this week's episode. Kamala's great-grandmother's name jumped out at me. We've seen someone else with that name in the past in the MCU.
Spoiler: show
And a Kingo reference!

Ooo where did we see the name referenced before and in what regard?

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by das_boot » 16 Jun 2022, 18:01

XtremeOne1 wrote:
16 Jun 2022, 17:45
sambadaemon wrote:
16 Jun 2022, 13:04
Really enjoyed this week's episode. Kamala's great-grandmother's name jumped out at me. We've seen someone else with that name in the past in the MCU.
Spoiler: show
And a Kingo reference!

Ooo where did we see the name referenced before and in what regard?
Spoiler: show
Aisha, Guardians of the Galaxy. It seems like it could indeed be a Quantum Band
I’m really enjoying this series and I’m also really grateful that while there are explanations for the Islamic references, it’s not being spoon-fed to a western audience.

This is just the cutest series and I really love it.
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by sambadaemon » 16 Jun 2022, 19:03

das_boot wrote:
16 Jun 2022, 18:01
XtremeOne1 wrote:
16 Jun 2022, 17:45
sambadaemon wrote:
16 Jun 2022, 13:04
Really enjoyed this week's episode. Kamala's great-grandmother's name jumped out at me. We've seen someone else with that name in the past in the MCU.
Spoiler: show
And a Kingo reference!

Ooo where did we see the name referenced before and in what regard?
Spoiler: show
Aisha, Guardians of the Galaxy. It seems like it could indeed be a Quantum Band
I’m really enjoying this series and I’m also really grateful that while there are explanations for the Islamic references, it’s not being spoon-fed to a western audience.

This is just the cutest series and I really love it.
Yeah,
Spoiler: show
Aisha (Ayesha) was the leader of the Sovereign in Guardians 2. And I like the possibility mentioned in this episode that the band is just a trigger/activator for a power she already had.

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by tokenBG1009 » 19 Jun 2022, 01:05

While I'm still unsure Marvel wants to bring the Inhumans back in, I wouldn't be surprised if the crystals on the band are Terrigen crystals.
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by sambadaemon » 22 Jun 2022, 13:08

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
Spoiler: show
THEY'RE CLAN DESTINE!!! An evil version. And the bangle being part of a pair makes it more likely it's a Quantum Band.

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by Blackcyclops » 22 Jun 2022, 13:47

DEEP CUT!!!!!!

Marvel: remember when we made a talking tree and raccoon like household names?
Fans: yeah, there’s no way you can top that kind if deep cut for normies.
Marvel: *hold our beer*
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by P-90 » 22 Jun 2022, 19:53

Been on Earth for over a century, can't wait one day for Kamala to attend a wedding before they attack? so rude.
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by Cable » 23 Jun 2022, 01:55

I continue to despise the power change and don't think that is going to change.

Which is unfortunate because there is so much otherwise enjoyable about the show. They once again have succeeded in creating a series with a very different vibe than the others. Marvel is showing superhero is not a genre but rather something that can encompass all genres.

For a show airing during Pride month I am going to be disappointed though if the Zoe's crush on Nakia subplot from the comics is dropped for the show. They should at least tease it for a potential season 2.
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by Anna Raven » 23 Jun 2022, 04:54

The problem with the power change is it's also an origin story change. And that's having ripple effects across the story parts that early on WERE faithful to the comics, but now are not.

And I'm still going to be PISSED if we never hear her say Embiggen all season.
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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by sambadaemon » 23 Jun 2022, 13:07

Anna Raven wrote:
23 Jun 2022, 04:54
The problem with the power change is it's also an origin story change. And that's having ripple effects across the story parts that early on WERE faithful to the comics, but now are not.

And I'm still going to be PISSED if we never hear her say Embiggen all season.
Yeah, I'm still not happy about the power change. Power changes don't usually bother me, but this change changes her entire character and motivation for being who she is.

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by Blackcyclops » 23 Jun 2022, 13:49

This had definitely been the most positive PR for the Inhumans on TV I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen people online be so pissed that her origin is changed and really want that Inhuman connection.


I would’ve loved if they made her a mutant lol
So on one hand we have the existence of a being who can reset the entire timeline, destroying everything…, and on the other hand we have a few mind wipes and some gaslighting. You're right, totally evenly weighted.
-Cly

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by sambadaemon » 23 Jun 2022, 14:35

Blackcyclops wrote:
23 Jun 2022, 13:49
This had definitely been the most positive PR for the Inhumans on TV I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen people online be so pissed that her origin is changed and really want that Inhuman connection.


I would’ve loved if they made her a mutant lol
My issue with the change isn't that she's not an Inhuman. I couldn't care less about that. She could still be what it was revealed this week she is and it would work. It's the loss of the shapeshifting that makes her character arc different. Her powers don't really tie into the "uncomfortable in her own skin/trying to find her place" aspect that made her so interesting (to me at least).

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Re: Ms. Marvel (June 2022)

Post by Jindianajonz » 23 Jun 2022, 17:09

Has there been an explanation for why her powers changed? I assumed it was budget reasons, but never heard anything official.

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