Dr. Strange 2

[Spectral Knight]

When can we stop spoilering our thoughts...?

Spoiler: show

I think an easy solution to the problematic Wanda narrative of the film would be to have another player be influencing her to use - and be corrupted by - the Darkhold...

...No, not Mephisto. I was thinking with the emphasis of dreams throughout the movie showing alternate realities it might have foreshadowed classic Strange villain, Nightmare. It would make Wanda less culpable and more redeemable, particularly if she was shown actively fighting his influence, and would set up a major power player for whenever Strange is back. I just never really felt the Darkhold was casting its power over Wanda, so even though there was dialogue on its influence, it kinda felt like she was using the Darkhold rather than be a victim to it, and I think an inanimate object doesn't really allow that balance to be explored properly.

I'm pretty sure Nightmare was previously in Derrickson's plans before he dropped off the project

[sambadaemon]

Mid-credit cameo definitely has one of those “oh Kirby its classic but really ugly” costumes that even when drawn by modern artist, it still lacks alot. So seeing it in real life on *Spoiler* shocked the hell out of me.

Spoiler: show

If Clea is able to show up and if Raimi stays around, I wanna go full on Dr. Strange…I’m talking Cyttorak, Umar, Lemuria, and frigging Dr. Voodoo…matter of fact throw in Shaman and shit too!

Spoiler: show

did Dr. Voodoo survive Dr. Strange 1? It's been forever since I watched it. And I know he's used the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak several times, bud did he ever call them by name?

[EvilMonkeyPope]

It was his brother who died in the first movie, so Dr. Voodoo should totally debut in the next one.

[das_boot]

Gonna make a pseudo-mod ruling here; if anyone is venturing on to this thread to this point a week after release and not expecting spoilers… I dunno what to tell you, Marvel Girl. Try harder.

Parts of this I loved, parts of it… sigh. Honestly I just don’t find Cumberbatch a good lead. At all. I can see y’all have spoken about the problematic narrative re; Wanda and honestly I kind of feel like it could easily combine the plot of Wanda being a nexus being, and having it be the subconscious madness of EVERY Wanda at losing her children be what infected her— like, since we didn’t see any Wanda’s with Vision, I think it’s a fair assumption that Viz doesn’t survive in many universes, and therefore it’s the kids that keep Wanda hanging on to sanity. If dreams are windows to the multiverse, other Wanda’s would have sensed what our Wanda did, and with her powers including telepathy? Our Wanda could have sensed their response to that dream which fuelled her madness.

Anyway. America was great, that actor is SUPER talented for a child actor. Loved the Illuminati (and the fact that the existence of Xavier in one universe means that the X-Men exist in others) ugh. This was really well done, generally. Sure, some problematic elements but it was a strong entry.

[Blackcyclops]

I also really liked the actress…I like that she does kid and smart-ass both so well. She had an air about here that definitely makes me feel like she could, over time, be the next heart of the MCU. It doesn’t feel forced from her…its the same warm feeling I had towards Holland’s Spidey. She’s obviously not as kick-ass and self-sure as current America but current America is essentially a veteran superhero. We never actually goy to see her in her rookie days like we did with Ms. Marvel or Miles.

[das_boot]

I also really liked the actress…I like that she does kid and smart-ass both so well. She had an air about here that definitely makes me feel like she could, over time, be the next heart of the MCU. It doesn’t feel forced from her…its the same warm feeling I had towards Holland’s Spidey. She’s obviously not as kick-ass and self-sure as current America but current America is essentially a veteran superhero. We never actually goy to see her in her rookie days like we did with Ms. Marvel or Miles.

This. I feel like we see glimmers of the REAL 616 Chavez here when she finds her confidence but honestly, it just felt correct. Even when terrified her EDGE was still there which is important for a character like America. Like, even at the moments where she could have been perceived as more damsel-like, it was clear that it was due to a lack of experience, and I feel like she more than made up for that with her experience on how the multiverse worked. It was more interesting for me to see a newbie character being the vehicle for expositonary dialogue than if it had been another Strange or whatever.

I’m SLIGHTLY disappointed that it seems like the Mordo plot that was established at the end of the first Doc Strange movie seems to have been dropped— if there had even been a mention or two that certain low-level magic users had gone missing or were uncontactable, I’d have probably forgiven it, and while I GET that it didn’t serve a narrative purpose for this movie, it still would have been nice to reference that.

[EphemeristX]

So, this is industry spoilers, so click at your own risk, but:

Spoiler: show

Apparently, 40 minutes of footage was cut from the initial version of the film that didn't "test well". Of that, 10 of it apparently made it to the semi-final cut before finally being cut out for rating purposes and for time. Of that 10, most of it was gore, including a scene near the beginning where our Mordo gets decapitated. There are also apparently more cameos that had been filmed but were also trimmed out.

There's a bit of clamor for a "Raimi cut" in the veins of the Snyder Cut of the JL movie. If it were to be released on D+, it'd have to be behind parental controls, as this cut would very solidly be rated R (or MA).

[das_boot]

So, this is industry spoilers, so click at your own risk, but:

Spoiler: show

Apparently, 40 minutes of footage was cut from the initial version of the film that didn't "test well". Of that, 10 of it apparently made it to the semi-final cut before finally being cut out for rating purposes and for time. Of that 10, most of it was gore, including a scene near the beginning where our Mordo gets decapitated. There are also apparently more cameos that had been filmed but were also trimmed out.

There's a bit of clamor for a "Raimi cut" in the veins of the Snyder Cut of the JL movie. If it were to be released on D+, it'd have to be behind parental controls, as this cut would very solidly be rated R (or MA).

So, this intrigues me because…

Spoiler: show

I’d have considered both Black Bolt’s death and the bisection (albeit slightly off camera) of Peggy to have been more gory than a decapitation. I’d also argue that a few of the deaths in Endgame/Infinity War were gorier than that (memorably Proxima being splattered all over Okoye, Wanda and Nat), but I guess it is what it is . I suppose there’s always the argument that any kind of violence that’s clearly caused by something too fantastical to be real is allowed.

Given what you’ve said, I’d absolutely want to see a Raimi cut of this movie. I definitely think that this was an exercise in seeing how far they could push the horror/gore element within the bounds of MCU limits, and I think that they largely balanced it pretty well.

[EphemeristX]

So, this intrigues me because…

Spoiler: show

I’d have considered both Black Bolt’s death and the bisection (albeit slightly off camera) of Peggy to have been more gory than a decapitation. I’d also argue that a few of the deaths in Endgame/Infinity War were gorier than that (memorably Proxima being splattered all over Okoye, Wanda and Nat), but I guess it is what it is . I suppose there’s always the argument that any kind of violence that’s clearly caused by something too fantastical to be real is allowed.

Given what you’ve said, I’d absolutely want to see a Raimi cut of this movie. I definitely think that this was an exercise in seeing how far they could push the horror/gore element within the bounds of MCU limits, and I think that they largely balanced it pretty well.

Spoiler: show

Blackbolt's death was confined to the inside of his mask somehow as if it was stronger than his actual skull. And camera completely cuts away from Peggy's bisection. The implications of both are very horrifying, but we don't see any actual gore. An actual shown beheading would be considered gore, though, if we see it occur on screen. Which, going by Raimi's pedigree, we most probably would have.

As far as Proxima, they get around the gore by making her blood blue. Changing the color of blood is a very common trope in reducing a violence rating in media; it happens all the time in video games.

[tokenBG1009]

I've seen some of the possibly cut cameos around the internet. I question what good they really are though considering I can't see how they actually tie into the movie. They'd just be cameos for the sake of cameos and I rather not have that honestly.

[manuel_mc89]

So, i really liked this movie but i dont know what it was that made me not love it, it was great but something was missing. My highlights were that i loved how Wanda was the actual villain, did not saw that coming and was pleasantly surprised by it. Also, the fact that this had some heavy horror moments was great. Strange's highlihgts were his music fight and him using the dead spirits, that was cool. America i loved, but did not loved the fact that she was mexican, when in the comics she is not, latin people are always represented as if they were all from the same two places: Mexico or Puerto Rico, and while we celebrate all latin representation, when you have the chance to have a charachter from a different country other than the usual, you should do it.

Now, my biggest dislike is the JeanGreyification of Wanda that started all the way back in Age of Ultron, with her using tk and tp, and that has culminated here with her still using tk and tp but know as a flying, super powerful red head, when she started as a brunette and is actually not a red head in the comics. She even had a line about separating atoms that reminded me about the "traumatized atoms" line from Jean in the Morrisson run, and you know why it bothers me so, its because now that the X-Men are gonna appear in the MCU, instead of Jean Grey being the most powerful person, people are gonna say: but Wanda also did that. If we ever see Wanda atomizing someone, im gonna lose it.

[tokenBG1009]

I can understand the Wanda point to an extent, but she's always been massively powerful. It's the problem with magic using characters.

God that music fight was AMAZING. I've never had so much fun watching a superhero fight as I did then.

[Spectral Knight]

Yep, that music fight was nuts. It was a very different take on the cliche coloured energy blasts in some Superhero movies and very distinctive because of it. Particularly as it hadn't been teased in the trailers as far as I recall it was a real surprise.

@Manuel - I agree the horror moments were enjoyable in this. I mean, Strange reanimated the corpse of his multidimensional counterpart. Ludicrously dark and fun.

[tokenBG1009]

That was one of those things that made me go "Oh, the trailer had me completely fooled!" because I expected Zombie Strange to be an antagonist or something. The trailer for this movie was one of the best I've ever seen when it comes to not giving ANY of the plot away while only showing one scene that wasn't in the movie.

[das_boot]

That was one of those things that made me go "Oh, the trailer had me completely fooled!" because I expected Zombie Strange to be an antagonist or something. The trailer for this movie was one of the best I've ever seen when it comes to not giving ANY of the plot away while only showing one scene that wasn't in the movie.

Totally agree. I feel like while it was rumoured that Wanda would be the enemy in this, we were LED to believe that it was going to be Strange, Wanda and Chavez versus the Sorcerers. Even Wanda’s “that doesn’t seem fair” lines felt like they were being delivered almost for laughs, as if she was trying to appeal to Strange for help, so when that line was ACTUALLY delivered? It was kind of chilling.

[EphemeristX]

Alternate/pre-reshoot tea. From a leaked source, but aside from these items, the leak was completely correct:

Spoiler: show

Mordo is hunting down Wanda after the events of Wandavision. He happens upon her cabin and it becomes a nightmare version.
He's armed with a magical bow and arrow. She decapitates him. Presumably this was done to keep our Mordo on the board.

Rintrah actually gives a rousing speech about Wong. This would've been nice since we had this whole weird CGI character that amounted to nothing but a cameo.

The Illuminati had Balder the Brave instead of Blackbolt and Mister Fantastic. Apparently Mount and Krasinki were added later for more easter egg fun. The rumored casting for Balder was Daniel Craig.

At the end, we're shown an aged up Tommy and Billy. Presumably to set up Young Avengers, but now it may be pushed back for a rumored Children's Crusade adaptation.

[XtremeOne1]

Alternate/pre-reshoot tea. From a leaked source, but aside from these items, the leak was completely correct:

Spoiler: show

Mordo is hunting down Wanda after the events of Wandavision. He happens upon her cabin and it becomes a nightmare version.
He's armed with a magical bow and arrow. She decapitates him. Presumably this was done to keep our Mordo on the board.

Rintrah actually gives a rousing speech about Wong. This would've been nice since we had this whole weird CGI character that amounted to nothing but a cameo.

The Illuminati had Balder the Brave instead of Blackbolt and Mister Fantastic. Apparently Mount and Krasinki were added later for more easter egg fun. The rumored casting for Balder was Daniel Craig.

At the end, we're shown an aged up Tommy and Billy. Presumably to set up Young Avengers, but now it may be pushed back for a rumored Children's Crusade adaptation.

Spoiler: show

Any word on who was cast as Tommy and Billy or did they not get that far?

[tokenBG1009]

That casting checks out considering I've seen a lot of "alternate" castings for Reed and he was one of them. I guess the two got combined into "This person was originally going to be Reed!"

The Mordo bit makes sense because the man is noticeably absent in the movie dealing with a rogue spellcaster.

[EphemeristX]

Spoiler: show

Any word on who was cast as Tommy and Billy or did they not get that far?

Not as far as I know.