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WandaVision, season 1.

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tokenBG1009
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by tokenBG1009 » 27 Feb 2021, 20:27

Nu-D wrote:
27 Feb 2021, 19:08
Man, you people must have shitty friends.
Nah, they're just not part of the story being told. I talk about how I haven't really had water in two weeks, but I don't really mention how I've had offers from friends and family of a place to do my laundry or take a shower. It's not because I'm trying to diminish their assistance, but because the story is "I don't have water."

There's also a narrative bit of "No one has asked" regarding why we don't see these things. We only saw that Wanda didn't actually take Vision's body because Agatha wanted to know. Agatha doesn't care about the Avengers. This entire episode was meant to be "Why is Wanda so powerful and how did she do this?" The Avengers being there for her isn't part of this. We, as viewers, know more about the world, but the characters either don't or don't care.
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by das_boot » 28 Feb 2021, 01:20

Nu-D wrote:
27 Feb 2021, 19:08
Man, you people must have shitty friends.
Bold of you to assume I even have friends, but okay.

I’m going to call out a very specific toxic behaviour here that we see all too often on social media nowadays, and it’s this absolute nonsense “OMG IF YOU EVER NEED ME I’M JUST A CALL AWAY I AM A TRUE FRIEND”.

Yeah no, life doesn’t work that way at all and I’m going to break down why this way of thinking is, I think, bogging you down at this point, Nu-D.

The Avengers as we saw by the finale of Endgame were not the Avengers we saw by the end of AoU
Between the newer members having been missing for 5 years (Wanda, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Bucky, Falcon, War Machine, Black Panther), some of them not surviving (Iron Man, Black Widow, essentially Captain America), and some of them having family and loved ones to return to after five years away (BP, Hawkeye, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange) or dealing with their own trauma (Pepper, Falcon, Bucky, War Machine, Hawkeye)... there’s no team. Not really. This isn’t like the FF or X-Men where there’s a genuine family feeling amongst everyone, this is a team forged out of necessity with very distinct cliques within that team. Hawkeye and Widow, Widow and Hulk, Falcon and Bucky and Cap, Iron Man and Pepper and Rhodey, The Wakandans, team Quantum Realm, the GoTG, the Asgardians... and Wanda fits in none of those cliques. Do these people care about her? For sure. Hawkeye is very protective of her, we’ve seen that. But he also has his own darkness to reconcile, the death of Natasha to deal with, AND his family returning. Show me someone who would prioritise the chick from work you know has had it rough over his family and losing his best friend. Show me that person. IT IS ABSOLUTELY UNREALISTIC TO BELIEVE THAT IN THE FACE OF TRAUMA THAT HAS IMPACTED EVERYONE IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS PROCESSING THEIR OWN TRAUMA AND LOSS WOULD PRIORITISE A WORK COLLEAGUE OVER THEIR OWN FAMILY

For any of this series to work, we need Wanda to have a real tangible sense of loneliness— otherwise it doesn’t make sense. If she could have just brought Vision back to life, where’s the conflict? Where’s the story?

Who knew that Vision was dead and that Wanda had basically tried to kill him to protect him from Thanos? I believe we had Cap, Thor, and Hulk there, with Bucky and Falcon being knocked out, and BP and Okoye turning up just after the fight ended. Out of those characters, Bucky and Falcon have to deal with them being left the legacy of Captain America. Thor left with the Guardians because they seemed more fun than the dour Avengers. Hulk was functionally side-lined due to his injuries. Again, while I suspect that the survivors would have been told that Vision had died, we’re STILL in the space where we need to consider which of them is free of any ties and responsibilities to be able to prioritise her over their own personal stuff, but for the most part it could really be as simple as a lot of the survivors not even considering the impact this would have on Wanda because they a) saw Vision as a machine or b) all just assumed someone else would provide her with the necessary support because everyone would know that they were busy...

Which of the Avengers are *ACTUALLY* Wanda’s friend?
Let’s leave that one hanging for a second because it’s a really sad question.

Wanda’s closest allies within the Avengers are dead or grieving their own losses and are in no space to help her out. Also, for all we know, subsequent films and tv series will explain exactly why they were unavailable. I’m really not trying to paint the Avengers as shitty people here, but I’m trying to make it abundantly clear that expecting a collective of people who are all mentally or physically damaged to somehow be able to see the woods for the trees, and that they’re somehow failing one of their own by not being able to be present is just an unfair and unrealistic assessment of these characters.

If you look at statistics for real life traumas— death of a child, Murder within the family, horrible accident that kills a close friend or family member but spares the rest— the relationships within those units deteriorates. There’s very high incidences of divorce in families where a child dies, and oftentimes friendships break down in the wake of a tragic accident. In that respect, this is a fairly true reflection of what would happen to a collective of people largely brought together by circumstance, after facing something that has absolutely devastated them all— they’ve gone their separate ways and have probably not even realised how isolated Wanda is.

Also, let’s get really really REALLY real here for a second—

Show me the Avenger that could stop her, at this point. Maybe Carol. MAYBE Doctor Strange, and as an outside bet, sure, what about maybe Mantis... but that’s assuming they wouldn’t be effected by the hex as much as everyone else who isn’t Agatha has been. Literally, what could we really expect from any of the Avengers? At this stage it really does seem like the best chance at this ending is for Wanda to reject her fake reality for actual reality, or Agatha somehow shutting her down, but I absolutely reject this notion that the Avengers should have reformed as soon as they caught wind of this... and hey, again, we’re assuming that there are channels open for that to happen in the first place... who’s to say SWORD would have shared intel?
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Blackcyclops » 28 Feb 2021, 01:34

Thinking about it, who are the Avengers left at this point? Spider-man the teenager, BP the King, Thor the guy who left for space, Hawkeye the guy who did some effed up stuff but got his family back (who incidentally has a show coming to tell his story) and the duo of Falcon and Bucky (also with a show telling their story).

I think in both of those two show instances we can not expect the Avengers to show up either, similarly with Loki and maybr even SI and Armor Wars.
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 28 Feb 2021, 02:47

How long has SWORD had Vision's body for? Has it been the whole five years or just recently? Surely Wakanda or Stark would've hung on to it?

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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Spectral Knight » 28 Feb 2021, 05:33

Blackcyclops wrote:
28 Feb 2021, 01:34
Thinking about it, who are the Avengers left at this point? Spider-man the teenager, BP the King, Thor the guy who left for space, Hawkeye the guy who did some effed up stuff but got his family back (who incidentally has a show coming to tell his story) and the duo of Falcon and Bucky (also with a show telling their story).

I think in both of those two show instances we can not expect the Avengers to show up either, similarly with Loki and maybr even SI and Armor Wars.
Hmmm... did either Iron Man's or Cap's respective "sides" in CW count as official Avengers? As I don't believe Bucky was ever inducted into the team, and Spider-Man / BP feels a bit of a stretch too given it felt they were brought together specifically to combat Cap's squad rather than official members.

I know Cap did the whole Avengers Assemble rally call in Endgame, but that also included half of Wakanda, Rescue, the Guardians, Doctor Strange etc, even Howard the Duck, and it'd be a major stretch to consider all those as Avengers.

Certainly there's very few left on Earth. From the founders Hulk and Hawkeye, then War Machine and Falcon were confirmed official members too. I'd also suggest Ant-Man was made an Avenger for the time travel mission (he even got one of those snazzy team costumes). But... as a unit? It's not the most tight knit of groups.

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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Magik84 » 28 Feb 2021, 06:36

Yeah agree the people Wanda are closest to are dead or have their own family priorities now.

It's funny the 5 year blip has also got me thinking about pandemic as well. A few days ago a ran into a friend, I hadn't seen in over a year, we weren't super close, but we've known each other for 10 years and we used to meet up every few months, and message. Because of lockdown and our own things going on, with restrictions we are not high on each others priority list to meet, so when we can only meet 1 person outside at time, there are other closer friends I've met. We had nice chat for little bit but havent even messaged for like 6 months. I feel Hawkeye and Cap would fall into this category 5 years they've had other things going on, and that's 5 years they weren't working on relationship with Wanda, so yeah shes a friend but yep not high on the friendship/family priority list
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by sambadaemon » 28 Feb 2021, 13:54

Also, keep in mind that she had been on the run for a while (a year I think she says?) at the start of infinity war. How much trust does she even have left for the remaining team? Cap and Widow save her from the Dark Order, but they're both essentially dead now. That's it

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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by XtremeOne1 » 28 Feb 2021, 14:32

True, it would really only be Hawkeye(who again, is busy but given what happened in Civil War, that might not even be the case) and Falcon, who is dealing with his own stuff.

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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by das_boot » 28 Feb 2021, 14:36

sambadaemon wrote:
28 Feb 2021, 13:54
Also, keep in mind that she had been on the run for a while (a year I think she says?) at the start of infinity war. How much trust does she even have left for the remaining team? Cap and Widow save her from the Dark Order, but they're both essentially dead now. That's it
Also a good point. She was a fugitive from the law by the opening of Infinity War, and not just a local law, but an international one. From “her” team of Avengers from Civil War, even then Ant-Man was allegedly retired, Bucky was living his psychological rehab life in Wakanda, Falcon was... somewhere, and Hawkeye had hung up his bow for a family life. BW and Cap were doing espionagey type things it would appear, and War Machine was firmly team Stark (as well as being grievously injured). That literally leaves Vision. So, as well as having her only true companion killed in front of her, and already using their relationship as something to mask (not deal with) her EXISTING PTSD, when she’s literally left with no one, of COURSE she’s going to snap.

I really hope that the fall out of this and DS2 is that she actually finds some people within the Avengers that she can build a friendship with, to be honest.
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Anna Raven » 28 Feb 2021, 16:55

I think if Hawkeye knew exactly what was happening in New Jersey he'd come help if possible. They shared a moment of loss together and a hug at Tony's funeral. But even if Clint showed up, would he even be any help? He doesn't have any powers, and his skills aren't exactly geared toward solving this problem (ie. He's not a scientist).

I actually think T'Challa might come help Wanda if given a heads up. Not that he has a bond with Wanda, he probably only really knows her as the girl who accidentally got his father killed, but who was willing to help save the planet from Thanos. He seems to have both a soft spot for helping people who need it, but who also kind of need to be looked after for their own good (ie. Bucky). Of course, T'Challa night have no idea this is even happening, depending on how well the government has clamped down on it leaking to the press, and they certainly aren't going to ask a foreign country for help. T'Challa is most likely oblivious, managing post-Endgame affairs in Wakanda, not to mention we know what the Real Life issues are there (no more Chadwick).

So really, what I imagine is going to happen is after this all wraps up Dr. Strange will show up to help Wanda along, because magic is his responsibility as Sorcerer Supreme.
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by das_boot » 28 Feb 2021, 19:43

I mean, shall we get real here? Doctor Strange is REALLY dropping the ball here in terms of something majorly magical happening and he hasn’t even the good grace to show his weird face.

Also, I read something and totally forgot to bookmark it for later, but I read online that Emma Caulfield had to be signed off on joining WandaVision by Kevin Feige, whereas a lot of the other Westview residents were just left up to casting for the show. Perhaps a stretch, but doesn’t that seem like something that would only happen if she was to become a character that would appear in future instalments?
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Nu-D » 01 Mar 2021, 00:39

das_boot wrote:
28 Feb 2021, 01:20
Nu-D wrote:
27 Feb 2021, 19:08
Man, you people must have shitty friends.
Bold of you to assume I even have friends, but okay.

I’m going to call out a very specific toxic behaviour here that we see all too often on social media nowadays, and it’s this absolute nonsense “OMG IF YOU EVER NEED ME I’M JUST A CALL AWAY I AM A TRUE FRIEND”.

Yeah no, life doesn’t work that way at all and I’m going to break down why this way of thinking is, I think, bogging you down at this point, Nu-D.

The Avengers as we saw by the finale of Endgame were not the Avengers we saw by the end of AoU
Between the newer members having been missing for 5 years (Wanda, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Bucky, Falcon, War Machine, Black Panther), some of them not surviving (Iron Man, Black Widow, essentially Captain America), and some of them having family and loved ones to return to after five years away (BP, Hawkeye, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange) or dealing with their own trauma (Pepper, Falcon, Bucky, War Machine, Hawkeye)... there’s no team. Not really. This isn’t like the FF or X-Men where there’s a genuine family feeling amongst everyone, this is a team forged out of necessity with very distinct cliques within that team. Hawkeye and Widow, Widow and Hulk, Falcon and Bucky and Cap, Iron Man and Pepper and Rhodey, The Wakandans, team Quantum Realm, the GoTG, the Asgardians... and Wanda fits in none of those cliques. Do these people care about her? For sure. Hawkeye is very protective of her, we’ve seen that. But he also has his own darkness to reconcile, the death of Natasha to deal with, AND his family returning. Show me someone who would prioritise the chick from work you know has had it rough over his family and losing his best friend. Show me that person. IT IS ABSOLUTELY UNREALISTIC TO BELIEVE THAT IN THE FACE OF TRAUMA THAT HAS IMPACTED EVERYONE IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS PROCESSING THEIR OWN TRAUMA AND LOSS WOULD PRIORITISE A WORK COLLEAGUE OVER THEIR OWN FAMILY

For any of this series to work, we need Wanda to have a real tangible sense of loneliness— otherwise it doesn’t make sense. If she could have just brought Vision back to life, where’s the conflict? Where’s the story?

Who knew that Vision was dead and that Wanda had basically tried to kill him to protect him from Thanos? I believe we had Cap, Thor, and Hulk there, with Bucky and Falcon being knocked out, and BP and Okoye turning up just after the fight ended. Out of those characters, Bucky and Falcon have to deal with them being left the legacy of Captain America. Thor left with the Guardians because they seemed more fun than the dour Avengers. Hulk was functionally side-lined due to his injuries. Again, while I suspect that the survivors would have been told that Vision had died, we’re STILL in the space where we need to consider which of them is free of any ties and responsibilities to be able to prioritise her over their own personal stuff, but for the most part it could really be as simple as a lot of the survivors not even considering the impact this would have on Wanda because they a) saw Vision as a machine or b) all just assumed someone else would provide her with the necessary support because everyone would know that they were busy...

Which of the Avengers are *ACTUALLY* Wanda’s friend?
Let’s leave that one hanging for a second because it’s a really sad question.

Wanda’s closest allies within the Avengers are dead or grieving their own losses and are in no space to help her out. Also, for all we know, subsequent films and tv series will explain exactly why they were unavailable. I’m really not trying to paint the Avengers as shitty people here, but I’m trying to make it abundantly clear that expecting a collective of people who are all mentally or physically damaged to somehow be able to see the woods for the trees, and that they’re somehow failing one of their own by not being able to be present is just an unfair and unrealistic assessment of these characters.

If you look at statistics for real life traumas— death of a child, Murder within the family, horrible accident that kills a close friend or family member but spares the rest— the relationships within those units deteriorates. There’s very high incidences of divorce in families where a child dies, and oftentimes friendships break down in the wake of a tragic accident. In that respect, this is a fairly true reflection of what would happen to a collective of people largely brought together by circumstance, after facing something that has absolutely devastated them all— they’ve gone their separate ways and have probably not even realised how isolated Wanda is.

Also, let’s get really really REALLY real here for a second—

Show me the Avenger that could stop her, at this point. Maybe Carol. MAYBE Doctor Strange, and as an outside bet, sure, what about maybe Mantis... but that’s assuming they wouldn’t be effected by the hex as much as everyone else who isn’t Agatha has been. Literally, what could we really expect from any of the Avengers? At this stage it really does seem like the best chance at this ending is for Wanda to reject her fake reality for actual reality, or Agatha somehow shutting her down, but I absolutely reject this notion that the Avengers should have reformed as soon as they caught wind of this... and hey, again, we’re assuming that there are channels open for that to happen in the first place... who’s to say SWORD would have shared intel?
You know, I wrote a reply to this, but it’s probably best to let it drop. I’m sorry I offended you with my joke about shitty friends. It was admittedly kinda snotty. I shouldn’t have made it.
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by das_boot » 01 Mar 2021, 00:48

No no, I was being fairly facetious about that comment, but also surely you’ve interacted with me enough by now to know that I’m awful 😂
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Spectral Knight » 01 Mar 2021, 06:44

das_boot wrote:
28 Feb 2021, 19:43
I mean, shall we get real here? Doctor Strange is REALLY dropping the ball here in terms of something majorly magical happening and he hasn’t even the good grace to show his weird face.

Also, I read something and totally forgot to bookmark it for later, but I read online that Emma Caulfield had to be signed off on joining WandaVision by Kevin Feige, whereas a lot of the other Westview residents were just left up to casting for the show. Perhaps a stretch, but doesn’t that seem like something that would only happen if she was to become a character that would appear in future instalments?
This is more debatable... if Agatha could sense such an outlay of magic shouldn't Strange?

A couple of things on this... Doctor Strange's magic seemed a little... different to Agatha's. Look at the way Strange (and previously, the other followers of the Ancient One) casts and its visual effects compared to both Agatha and Wanda's respective power signatures. It feels like it's a different discipline / origin. Almost a different code to using it.

Plus...Doctor Strange doesn't know Wanda. Other than mid-battle and Tony's funeral, they'd never met before, and Strange barely knew very few of the other Avengers at all to have any sort of connection as even friends of friends (Peter, Tony?). And certainly at that point it wasn't established that she was a chaos magik user rather than a Mind Stone powered TP/TK user. The Hex wasn't even assumed to be magic at all first, but esoterically scientific instead.

Plus talk about other things to be dealing with... 5 years the Earth had no Sorcerer Supreme, with potentially a still pissed off Mordo on a magic killing spree (if he didn't get snapped) and one of his strongest assets, the Time Stone...gone...?
Spoiler: show
We know Wanda will be in DS2, so he might even be on the scene by the end of the series

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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by das_boot » 01 Mar 2021, 11:27

Re; the origin/appearance of their magic, I think that’s intentional. If you look at the power signature, a lot of the magic in Doctor Strange was based on an Eastern philosophy, hence the mandalas in their shields/portals, and the almost martial arts stances they take when they’re using magic. It’s the result of training and (I think) The Ancient One even references that it’s a body/mind/spirit triad.

The witches that we’ve seen so far seem to indicate that it’s innate, and regardless of training, that power will come out at some point or another. Even Agatha’s opening this episode was indicative that her magic was something she hadn’t fully learned to control. It seems like there’s a very distinct difference between taught magic (which is dependent on natural ability but still, we saw that most people could be taught SOME magic), and natural affinity for it. The first thing that people were taught under the Ancient One was control, hence the intricate patterns in their spells, whereas natural magic users seem to have less of a distinct pattern beyond just a colour that their magic manifests in.
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Spectral Knight » 01 Mar 2021, 11:52

It might also be to do with where the energy itself comes from. In DS, the Ancient One seemed to imply the 'magic' they used was energy from other dimensions. They could well be tapping different 'wells' / sources in their respective feats.

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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Blackcyclops » 01 Mar 2021, 13:08

In the normal MU magic does come from three sources: innate, environmental, and otherdimensional/gods/demons/deities.

So both follow the model set up by the MU.
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by das_boot » 01 Mar 2021, 13:17

Blackcyclops wrote:
01 Mar 2021, 13:08
In the normal MU magic does come from three sources: innate, environmental, and otherdimensional/gods/demons/deities.

So both follow the model set up by the MU.

This. I’d also say if you follow this model, you can see evidence that those with more of an innate gift are the ones displaying feats of higher magic (Doctor Strange, Mordo, Ancient One, Mads Mikkelsson cosplaying as Kesha), whereas you have folk like the guy who could use magic to make his legs work again are probably lesser gifted innately but still able to use a small amount of magic.

Before she was exposed to the Infinity Stone, Wanda already used a probability hex that basically took the path of least resistance— it didn’t yeet the bomb away, turn it into butterflies, or rewind time so she could save her parents, it just stopped the bomb from detonating.

It feels more to me like a magic user is basically just a person with the ability to act as a conduit for energies— the more able you are to act as a channel, the more magic you can wield. Folks like Strange et al learn to channel it in a very precise way, but the “natural” witches/sorcerers seem to just learn by doing
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by sambadaemon » 01 Mar 2021, 14:10

das_boot wrote:
01 Mar 2021, 11:27
Re; the origin/appearance of their magic, I think that’s intentional. If you look at the power signature, a lot of the magic in Doctor Strange was based on an Eastern philosophy, hence the mandalas in their shields/portals, and the almost martial arts stances they take when they’re using magic. It’s the result of training and (I think) The Ancient One even references that it’s a body/mind/spirit triad.

The witches that we’ve seen so far seem to indicate that it’s innate, and regardless of training, that power will come out at some point or another. Even Agatha’s opening this episode was indicative that her magic was something she hadn’t fully learned to control. It seems like there’s a very distinct difference between taught magic (which is dependent on natural ability but still, we saw that most people could be taught SOME magic), and natural affinity for it. The first thing that people were taught under the Ancient One was control, hence the intricate patterns in their spells, whereas natural magic users seem to have less of a distinct pattern beyond just a colour that their magic manifests in.
This is my thought as well. I've been thinking of it similar to Aes Sedai from the Wheel of Time. Some people could learn, but wouldn't manifest without training and some would manifest no matter what. Based on the numbers in Endgame, I'd wager the ratios are probably about the same as well. The learners are much more common than the naturals.

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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Blackcyclops » 01 Mar 2021, 14:30

It might also depend on the origins of the user.

Witches and warlocks maybe be a different sub-sect of magic users than those of sorcerers.
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by das_boot » 01 Mar 2021, 19:00

Won’t lie, I lasted about three chapters into the first Wheel of Time and tapped out because it bored me, but the analogy makes sense 😂
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by tokenBG1009 » 02 Mar 2021, 15:33

Blackcyclops wrote:
01 Mar 2021, 14:30
It might also depend on the origins of the user.

Witches and warlocks maybe be a different sub-sect of magic users than those of sorcerers.
As someone who's played D&D off and on for nearly 20 years this makes sense.

In D&D there are many types of spellcasters.
Divine Spellcasters
Clerics/Paladins: Get their spells through prayer
Druids/Rangers: Nature
Divine Souls: Innate talent

Arcane Spellcasters
Sorcerors: Innate talent
Wizards: Practice and learning
Warlocks: Other beings (Eldritch, Fae, Demonic, etc...)

I would assume Doctor Strange would be a D&D Wizard while Wanda and Agatha would be D&D Sorcerers.
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Anna Raven » 03 Mar 2021, 02:40

tokenBG1009 wrote:
02 Mar 2021, 15:33
Blackcyclops wrote:
01 Mar 2021, 14:30
It might also depend on the origins of the user.

Witches and warlocks maybe be a different sub-sect of magic users than those of sorcerers.
As someone who's played D&D off and on for nearly 20 years this makes sense.

In D&D there are many types of spellcasters.
Divine Spellcasters
Clerics/Paladins: Get their spells through prayer
Druids/Rangers: Nature
Divine Souls: Innate talent

Arcane Spellcasters
Sorcerors: Innate talent
Wizards: Practice and learning
Warlocks: Other beings (Eldritch, Fae, Demonic, etc...)

I would assume Doctor Strange would be a D&D Wizard while Wanda and Agatha would be D&D Sorcerers.
So D&D uses what's called the Vancian magic system which means you have to memorize your spells before using them and they wipe from your memory afterward (this is from the author Jack Vance who wrote the Dying Earth series that used this system). Originally clerics and wizards were the only two spellcasters, since then they've added sorcerers, bards, and warlocks who can cast spells spontaneously, but they still use up what are called "spell slots" as opposed to using like a mana system, that can recover after a cooldown.

Technically speaking then, I think all the Marvel spellcasters, including Dr. Strange, would be Sorcerers, in the sense that they don't have to memorize their spells each day ahead of time. Rather, they all seem to have the ability to call upon whatever spells they know spontaneously.

Now, that doesn't really jibe with the traditional lore (mentioned by Token) that wizards are "book-learned" while sorcerers are "oh would you look at that, I know magic". But there's actually nothing in the rules that says a sorcerer can't have learned his spells through practice and books, and there's nothing in the rules that says a wizard can't just rely on his natural talent. That's just tropes that people use depending on their campaign.

Now let's say that we learn later that Wanda and Agatha are getting their powers channeled through the Darkhold, by Chthon. In that case they would actually be warlocks, because they are getting their spells directly from a primal, powerful being.
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EphemeristX
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by EphemeristX » 03 Mar 2021, 21:17

Doctor Strange also invokes beings in many of his spells. Aggamotto, Hoggoth, Vishanti, Oshtur, Cyttorak, etc. I think he'd be a bit of a Warlock on top of a straight Wizard.
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Anna Raven
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Re: WandaVision, season 1.

Post by Anna Raven » 03 Mar 2021, 23:49

EphemeristX wrote:
03 Mar 2021, 21:17
Doctor Strange also invokes beings in many of his spells. Aggamotto, Hoggoth, Vishanti, Oshtur, Cyttorak, etc. I think he'd be a bit of a Warlock on top of a straight Wizard.
I think it depends on whether the spell is called that because it's powered by the entity (like Crimson Bands of Cyttorak) or if it's a spell named for its creator (the Light of Aggamotto). Since Cyttorak, Hoggoth, Ikon, and Valtorr, etc. are mystical or demonic entities yes those seem like warlock spells.

In D&D a lot of wizard spells are named for their creators (who happened to be some of the earliest players in games run by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson). These include spells like Tenser's Floating Disk, Melf's Acid Arrow, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Leomund's Tiny Hut, and Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion. So that feels similar to like the Light of Aggamotto or the Winds of Watoomb.
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