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"Song of Ice and Fire" Discussions

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EvilMonkeyPope
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Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 05 Mar 2013, 16:08

She deserves no sympathy after what she did to Brienne!

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Milkshake08
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Post by Milkshake08 » 06 Mar 2013, 14:45

I liked FFC. I really enjoyed Asha and Arrienne, and I have grown a great fondness for Jaime and Brienne, while I find Cersei and Sansa fascinating. I actually want Margery to go down. I was more of a fan of that book than dance with dragons.

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medium13
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Post by medium13 » 07 Mar 2013, 13:09

I'm going to start my reread of DwD soon. I'll see if a second read changes my mind. I was oh, so confused with all the exotic names and locations.   I'm a huge fan of cut-throat Catelyn and my only wish is that she could be the one to strangle Cersei to death - but I'm sure it will be Jaime.

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Post by XtremeOne1 » 07 Mar 2013, 13:10

I want her to strangle all Freys to death...I want all Freys to die a slow and horrible death...and Theon. Sure he's a tragic character but tragic characters need to die...and I would like it a Stark can kill him :)

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Post by medium13 » 08 Mar 2013, 10:39

Aw, Xtreme you big softie. You want vengeance for the North.  Fear not, the North remembers.
medium132013-03-08 10:39:56

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EvilMonkeyPope
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Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 08 Mar 2013, 11:46

I was so mad when she stopped being dead. Greywind's head on Robb's body would've been a way cooler zombie.

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XtremeOne1
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Post by XtremeOne1 » 08 Mar 2013, 12:35

[QUOTE=medium13]


Aw, Xtreme you big softie. You want vengeance for the North.  Fear not, the North remembers.
[/QUOTE]I love the Starks.....

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Post by Wolfthomas » 12 Mar 2013, 19:14

"Death," he heard himself say, "there will be death, aye. Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King's Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!"





Man I love Davos.Wolfthomas2013-03-12 19:15:54

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medium13
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Post by medium13 » 13 Mar 2013, 12:44

Davos is the Westeros version of the everyman. I tried not to like him, but I do.

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Post by XtremeOne1 » 13 Mar 2013, 14:58

Davos is awesome and apparently so is the actor who plays him on the show. I listened to his commentary track and it was hilarious. He and the actress who plays Mellisandre are apparently friends who've worked together before(and after the "Shadow Birth" scene, I'm sure they're really close) and they're both just cracking jokes the whole time.Lena Heady and Peter Dinklage are also apparently VERY close. Peter was the one who convinced Lena to take the role of Cersei.
XtremeOne12013-03-13 14:58:44

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Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 25 Mar 2013, 05:54

I just finished A Dance with Dragons. It was the book that A Feast For Crows should've been. Now I will post some assorted musings that the rest of you probably already thought of.
It was a bit annoying that the chapter headings for secondary viewpoint characters kept changing instead of just using the characters' names.
Can something just be a plain old farce for once rather than a mummer's farce?
Does Essos have crazy seasons like Westeros?
Why are dragons & direwolves the only semi-magic sigil beasts? Why don't the other major houses have awesome totem beasts to aid them? In Essos, it's briefly mentioned that there are manticores & bsilisks available at bazaars. Shouldn't these mythic animals of mass destruction be bigger deals? Are lizard-lions of the crannogs just alligators or something more monstrous? If the dragons are fire incarnate, why don't the direwolves have ice powers?
There should be a rom-com about Dany & her suitors. Rom-coms need more dragons.
It troubles me that most of the women in the series are terrible decision makers. Cersei & Dany only rule wisely when they have guys second guessing their gut instincts. Arya & Sansa seem to be forfeiting their agency. Catlyn undermined Robb's rule & now she just a bloodthirsty monster. Lyssa was a crazy pawn. Arianne's plan backfired. Asha seems to be an exception, but she was stripped of her power. Melissandre is doing very well, but her skill at prophecy is questionable. There's plenty of guys that also make lousy decisions in the books, but it seems more eggregious when it comes to the women. Wasn't this series supposed to be more  progressive?
It seems like Brynden Bloodraven the 3-Eyed Crow is using his warg abilities to control the White Walkers/Others/wights & wants to corrupt Bran. The last of the Children of the Forest have teamed up with him to kill the Andals for driving them to the brink of extinction. The Children of the Forest's pact to stand with the Night's Watch against the Others has been broken.
Shouldn't I care about Rickon by now? He's had barely any character development. Where in Westeros is Osha hiding him where there are cannibals?
If Varys wants peace, why is he so determined to put a Targaryen back on the Iron Throne when the Westeros civil wars finally seemed to be winding down? Why isn't he helping the winning Lannister-Tyrell alliance to consollidate power? Varys claims Aegon has been thoroughly prepped to be king, but does the realm really want another Targaryen king?
Roose Bolton has escaped the curse of Harrenhal thus far. He should be Hand of the King. He can beat the odds on that too & do a kick-ass job at it!
Is Patchface an underwater zombie bound to the Drowned God?
Is Brienne a fire zombie enslaved by Stoneheart?
How'd Qyburn turn The Mountain into a (robo?) zombie?
If not Mance's spearwives, who was killing Bolton's men at Winterfell?
Did Lord  Manderly bake the missing Freys into the wedding pork pies? Did he survive having his throat slashed?
Did Brynden Blackfish refuse all marriage allainces because he's homosexual, asexual, or just opposed to the marriage institution?
What is the Citadel's masterplan? The magic cat is already out of the bag. If the Grand Maesters aren't warlocks themselves, their rein of skepticism & false servitude isn't going to be useful. What's up with the obsidian candle?
What killed the previous generation of dragons?
Did noble Ned Stark rape & murder Ashara Dayne? Why was it so important for Ned not to reveal Jon's true parentage if he's not a secret Targaryen?
Will Arya & Nymeria ever be reunited?

What is House Frey's official motto?
Martin pulls the "writing a character's lastest scene like a death scene only to have that character reappear later" trick so often that I'm unfortunately convinced Jon & Stannis will be fine in the next book. Speaking of which, when is Syrio Forrel coming back?
Varys's little birds armed with knives was creepy cool yet also completely random.
Is anybody else rooting for the Boltons to murder Stannis & his troops?
This was a good book, but I still don't feel that the story has progressed much. The dragons still haven't arrived in Westeros! Martin's decompressed style makes me worried that two giant books still won't be enough to wrap up all his plot threads. Are we headed for another Lost/BSG ending?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KocHhWTwMw&feature=player_embedded 
 EvilMonkeyPope2013-03-25 23:14:00

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Post by medium13 » 26 Mar 2013, 11:04

I just started my reread of DwD! I can't wait to discuss.

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Post by XtremeOne1 » 26 Mar 2013, 16:51

Catlynn didn't undermine Robb's rule. Save for letting Jamie go, she was pretty much a better and wiser ruler then he was. If Robb had listened to Cat a few more times, well...things would have turned out very different.And considering the Boltons are evil rapists....I say, nope haha...Ergh I hated the Boltons. They were just despicable in every way possible. You have so many questions and it's a bit hard to read all clustered together haha...but yeah, this big did leave me asking more questions then having any answered. Ergh I don't want to wait another three to four years :(....No way is that guy surviving it. I've seen him all over the place and he just doesn't look like a healthy dude.
XtremeOne12013-03-26 16:54:14

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Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 26 Mar 2013, 19:19

Catlyn letting Jamie go was a colossal mistake. It was an emotional choice that didn't take the tactical consquences into account. He was the best leverage the Starks had. It caused the Karstarks to break ranks & probably disillusioned more of his bannermen. With Jamie no longer a hostage, it allowed Tywin the opportunity spring the Red Wedding upon the northern forces. It's not as if Tywin's penchant for merciless lateral thinking was unkown throughout the realm.
Why can't Melissandre make a host of fire zombies to fight the ice zombies?

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Post by medium13 » 27 Mar 2013, 14:16

I've been thinking about the Dragon having three heads again. The characters in the book seem to think this means three people - given the initial dragons siblings - but what if it's just the three main aspects that make up Dany's personality are embodied in her dragons? The dragons were made from her sacrifice, so it would make sense that they embody her spirit. Did her dragon really eat Hazzea?  I don't see much evidence of Dany being a warg like the Starks. I wasn't looking for this evidence, but I don't believe she's dreamed through their eyes or shared their meals. Speaking of, is Sansa's ability gone? Will she ever bond with an animal again and make use of it? Arya does, why can't she?

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Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 27 Mar 2013, 19:07

I think Sansa could still warg but she just hasn't tried after the horrific execution of Lady. When Arya warged into Nymeria, Nymeria thinks about her "silent brother." I thought she was referring to Ghost & Jon Snow, as Jon might not be able to warg because he doesn't have a mix of Stark & Tully genes. It seems, however, that Jon can warg into Ghost to some degree. So did Nymeria just mean that Ghost is mute or unable to communicate telepathically with the rest of his siblings?
I'm going to start calling Joffrey, Tommen, & Myrcella the Purratheons.
http://www.themarysue.com/game-of-thrones-wall/EvilMonkeyPope2013-03-27 21:27:37

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Post by medium13 » 28 Mar 2013, 14:00

I kind of remember that passage - and I assumed she was referring to Ghost as well. I think I write off that as "wolf think". They don't maintain their normal intellegence when they warg, with the exception of Bran who I think is obvioulsy more talented than the others, despite Varymr claiming that Jon is uber powerful. Anyway, while with the wolf, they don't indentify things like hands, armor and swords but will think about "man's paws".  I think Nymeria meant that Ghost is literally silent. He's always stalking around without making noise.

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Post by Milkshake08 » 29 Mar 2013, 12:35

But EMP, while I agree Cat letting Jayme go was stupid, it wouldn't have caused the Red Wedding if Robb had married a Frey like he was supposed to. Sure it sucks, but it was honorable, his duty, and his promise. He was too young to lead, though, really.

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Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 29 Mar 2013, 16:24

I agree that Robb marrying a non-Frey was stupid. I recall he marries Jeyne after the Kingslayer is freed, sort of a "well my mom did something impulsive so now I get to do something impulsive too." No doubt Lord Tywin had been plotting Robb's downfall off the battlefield for sometime, but he didn't dare risk the life of his hostage son. Cat freeing Jamie is the key factor that gave Tywin the opportunity to launch Opperation: Red Wedding (now I want Billy Idol to sing a song about it) without fear of reprisals.
I think the best female character for both personality & power is the Queen of Thorns. Too bad she's not in it much.
Why didn't Doran Martell send his kids to Pentos when he knew the Targaryens would be there?
Does anyone understand why Vargo Hoat unhanded Jamie? Why did he expect the Lannisters to be cool with this? Did anybody else envision him as Kraven?
Aren't all the direwolves super-stealthy to begin with? I remember them attacking without warning, which I think would be difficult for clydesdale-sized wolves.

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Post by Savant » 31 Mar 2013, 01:34

I tend to think that Robb's stupid marriage works better in the book, because he is so much younger, than on the television show, where convention forced the aging of the characters. I just have a really hard time accepting that adult Robb would be so incredibly insanely stupid to break his word without him being a hormone-infested adolescent trying to play at being a man. Even Paul Atreides wasn't that dumb.
 
The actress cast to play the Queen of Thorns looks like a great choice. Looking forward to her wit this season.

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Post by XtremeOne1 » 31 Mar 2013, 13:44

I agree Savant. The show made Robb's decision seem incredibly dumb. In the book it was dumb too but it at least made sense. He was young, it was his first love, he was grieving and he had sex with her, meaning his honor had bound him to do it. That never came across in the show. I like the actor who plays Robb and think he's terrific in scenes with Cat, but I didn't sense much chemistry between him and the actress who played Talsia. So given that, the boring character who doesn't have the same tragic undertone as Jeyne, and the actress just being sort of hoo-hum, I think they made a big mistake in that role...which is really important in things to come.I think if Robb had learned about Bran and Rickon's "death"...had sex with not-Jeyne and then married her because he felt he had too THAT would have worked much better. Or married her because he was grieving and felt lost...because that would have been a nice parallel to Cat's mistake in letting Jaime go. I think this is a storyline they dropped the ball on.

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Post by Wolfthomas » 01 Apr 2013, 05:02

[QUOTE=EvilMonkeyPope]

Does anyone understand why Vargo Hoat unhanded Jamie? Why did he expect the Lannisters to be cool with this?[/QUOTE]Hoat switched sides to the Starks (through Roose Bolton), before he realised Roose was likely going to turn coat and/or abandon him at Harrenhal. Maiming Jaime was a last ditch attempt to burn Roose's just begining brides with the Lannisters. But it didn't work.



Edit: Also he is a vicious piece of work and not very clever.Wolfthomas2013-04-01 05:04:44

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Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 09 Apr 2013, 01:01

Does anybody else really enjoy the parts that seem more like horror? Not that similar events of graphic and or supernatural violence don't happen in fantasy & fairy tales, but they're given more immediacy & detail here.
When I read that the Shadow Lands of Ashai were in the fair east I thought it was equivalent to Asia like Westeros is to Europe & the Summer Islands to Africa. I was a bit taken aback that the TV show didn't cast Asian actresses as Melissandre & Quailthe. Was that just me?
I also thought the Giants were supposed to be Yetis/Sasquatches. I'm disappointed that the spoilery pictures I've seen of them so far look more like regular fantasy giants.
The Stark sigil on TV looks very much like the alien hellhounds from Chronicles of Riddick.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/whats-your-game-of-thrones-name
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CLCOvZOh1o 

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Post by WorldWideWade » 09 Apr 2013, 14:58

Bad news on the author front. I attended a convention at Texas A&M University a couple weeks ago and George R.R. Martin was the guest of honor. He did a Q&A where very little useful SoIaF information was revealed. I took the opportunity to ask him a question that I probably could have phrased better. I asked with his work on the show and his popularity having exploded, how does he schedule his time and do the show makers pressure him to finish the books, possibly putting a tiny bit too much emphasis on the last three words. I felt like a bit of a jerk when everyone laughed and you could tell the question unsettled him.However, from his answer we were able to get a bit of an idea as to his schedule over the next few years. Anyone who has any hope of him even starting to write the books in the next couple years best squash it. While nothing is definitive it sounds like he is very backed up in projects and appearances for up until almost 2017! He said he won't get the kind of time he really wants to work on his books until his project load lightens. Again nothing is definitive but it looks like we are definitely in for the long haul. Here's to hoping the show can make the book content hold out for at least another 4 years.

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Post by XtremeOne1 » 09 Apr 2013, 16:08

Yeah, the problem is I don't think he's in it for the long haul. 

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