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Re: Random Thoughts

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Anna Raven
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Anna Raven » 21 Jun 2021, 00:33

Crutey Anth wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 19:31
Blackcyclops wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 18:34
Since I’m a hardcore atheist (sorta kind of a nihilist if we’re being honest) I give the mainstream religious belief the same benefit of the doubt I give something “new age” or “alternative”.

My stance is that if it’s not hurting anybody and it makes your life better than more power to you. Just don’t shove it down my throat or try and make me feel bad.

I usually don’t tell people I’m an atheist tbh…I’ve experienced more direct and explicit discrimination for that than I have for being Black lol…
Sorry to hear that mate. (About the discrimination not the tolerance you have for other faiths ha)

That’s always one of the odd things I think about across the pond.
1) Britain is kind of ‘religion’- like we have an official state religion, we have the Christian Church of England and the queen is the head of it...but very few people are religious. I think it was something where it’s 40odd% are ‘non-religious’, the number is a lot higher though I.e. my Dad always puts down on forms he’s a Christian but he hasn’t been to church for anything other than weddings or funerals since he was a kid and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t believe in god/doesn’t follow any biblical teachings. I generally assume more people are A-religious and it doesn’t play a huge part in their lives (I’m always a bit surprised to find out people go to church on a Sunday when they do). Regular church goers are like a few million out of 70,million....yet America very much seems RELIGION! Everyone on TV or the media, all the politicians etc talk about God in their lives constantly.

I know America was founded by a hardcore Christian group (I’ve got that right? The founders went to America because Europe was kind of ‘you’re a bit too hardcore please stop’)

2) I think Americans in general are more political (and because of (1) religion is much more important in your elections*). In the Uk we gripe about politics and I know plenty of people who hate the Tories but it’s very much ‘what a bunch of wankers’ rather than ‘Those people are evil!’—-polarisation and political engagement I suppose. I think partially it’s because we have far fewer politicians (senators, governors, councilmen, sheriffs etc etc)...we’ve got your MP and your local council

*Tony Blair famously was told ‘don’t do God’- he was Christian and wanted to talk about his values and was told he wasn’t allowed if he hoped to be elected
Haha, that's a bit reductive. The Pilgrims were the first English settlers yes, but they were a very small group who had a relatively small impact on the US as a whole. The Puritans were more impactful, and are probably the group you are referring to. However, many of the other English colonies had completely different roots and goals, including colonies founded around making money off of farming tobacco, a colony that was escape from debtor's prison, etc. There were many motivating factors for why English settlers came to America beyond feeling like their religious beliefs were being persecuted. Not to mention the Spanish settlers and explorers in the Southwest, French settlers in Louisiana, etc.

I'd say the American fascination on religion was something that really exploded later in our history, starting with several "Great Awakenings" that occurred in the 1800's that spread religious fervor into more rural areas. It was a populist movement, that encouraged people from the lowest ranks of society to become Christians, and resulted in the more evangelical, grass-roots churches you see in America today like the Baptists, the Methodists, the Presbyterians (who evolved out of the Anglican Church). Then a few years later came another wave which led to the Mormons and the Church of Christ.

And then of course even later you had a wave of immigrants from Ireland, Italy, and other places where Catholicism was prevalent, so that introduced another element. And then Russian and Polish immigrants who introduced Judaism, etc. etc.

American religion is really just an extension of European religion, except it was more isolated, and so I think that control the Vatican held over most of Europe wasn't there, letting American Christians evolve into a much more individualistic brand of believers. The lack of a "Central Leadership" like you have with Catholicism isn't there, and so Christianity just kind of morphed into "American individualism" and then eventually into "right-wing politics".
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 21 Jun 2021, 03:19

And you can’t untangle that religious evolution from our economic and social revolutions that were also benefited by our isolation.

I’d wager my life that without the Pacific and Atlantic Ocean’s separating us, we would probably have a more similar history in some ways as parts of Europe. But our distance allowed us for basically all the way until the mid-20th Century to develop in a very different fashion.
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Spectral Knight
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 21 Jun 2021, 04:48

das_boot wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 22:24
Oh, THAT. Like, on a base level, every religion is essentially just “be cool, yo. Here are some examples on how to be a cool dude and live a good life”. Do all of them still work in modern times? Nope. But does the MESSAGE still apply? Pretty damn much 🤷‍♂️
This is always interesting to me..my own (very) casual approach to Christianity has allowed me to "pick and mix" what works, but there's no doubt I could find massive contradictions. I can't understand the word-for-word faithful (of any creed), to have such a pure and powerful belief and yet be confronted by continuous contradictions.

I tend think if you're religiously minded a human rationality is needed to kind of distinguish the overall message and assess what is most relevant for your life now from holy writings that are hundreds or thousands of years old. I can't abide "parrotry" myself.

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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 21 Jun 2021, 13:49

Most of my friends of faith are the same. They don’t see it as “picking and choosing” but that there are simply some ways in which society has changed that aren’t going to be reflected in a 2000+ year old collections of parables and fables. I’ve only ever had one of them give me the “save your soul” speech, and I actually have one where we’ve both discussed our various spiritual experiences (they’ve come with me when I was doing some outdoor ritual work, and I’ve gone to their church), and we’ve come to the conclusion that both of us find similar strength, peace and faith despite our different beliefs.

I *have* also told off a former vicar who attended a pagan wedding for leaving during the dedication service, and again at the toast, but was happy to stay for the free meal 🙄
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 23 Jun 2021, 08:11

Marvel app isn’t working because I’m in Italy :(
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by EphemeristX » 23 Jun 2021, 08:41

Mine works because I'm right here where I haven't traveled from in over a year.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 23 Jun 2021, 09:48

EphemeristX wrote:
23 Jun 2021, 08:41
Mine works because I'm right here where I haven't traveled from in over a year.
First time leaving the tri-state area since February of 2020 right before lockdown lol…
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by EphemeristX » 23 Jun 2021, 13:21

Haha, I'm hella jealous. Italy, man.
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Spectral Knight
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 23 Jun 2021, 14:59

Italy is class. Could happily go back there. Been to Rome(mainly for work), and been to Puglia (for a holiday/family wedding - took a few extra days).

Beautiful weather, scenery and food. Lovely country.

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tokenBG1009
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by tokenBG1009 » 23 Jun 2021, 15:15

I've never even left the country...
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Spectral Knight
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 23 Jun 2021, 15:52

Thing is there's so much variety and you've got such a big country your domestic tourism is far better than smaller nations!

I've been to the following countries:
USA, Canada, Brazil, Republic of Ireland, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Hungary, Italy, Turkey, Israel, UAE (Dubai and Abu Dhabi) and Qatar.

Some of these are work only versus some which are only for leisure - I get around a bit.

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Anna Raven
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Anna Raven » 23 Jun 2021, 16:11

tokenBG1009 wrote:
23 Jun 2021, 15:15
I've never even left the country...
I've only been to Mexico and just across the border at that.

But I have been to probably 40 of the 50 states.
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Spectral Knight
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 23 Jun 2021, 16:16

I think I've done 5 or 6 states of US - I know I've been to/through:
Florida
Arizona
Nevada
California
North Carolina

(And then Texas and New York but only on transfers, so I didn't even get land-side, so I don't think I can really count them...!)

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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by tokenBG1009 » 23 Jun 2021, 17:22

Anna Raven wrote:
23 Jun 2021, 16:11
tokenBG1009 wrote:
23 Jun 2021, 15:15
I've never even left the country...
I've only been to Mexico and just across the border at that.

But I have been to probably 40 of the 50 states.
I've also hardly left the South. The states I've visited could be counted on one hand. Texas (DFW area), Missouri (St Louis), Arkansas (Ft Smith), Nevada (Las Vegas), and Michigan (Ann Arbor). Split, but two amazing parents, household. We didn't do vacations outside of the one time my dad took me to Six Flags. Any travel (LV and Ann Arbor as I went to those as an adult) were necessity.

I always want to travel, but my girlfriend is terrified of flying and I hate driving long distances. So I'm basically one of those "never left his hometown" folks. Thank God for the internet.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by BardicOne » 24 Jun 2021, 02:38

Counting driving through them, I've been to probably 44 states. We used to Road Trip a lot when my siblings and I were young. Never left the country.
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Anna Raven
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Anna Raven » 24 Jun 2021, 03:56

BardicOne wrote:
24 Jun 2021, 02:38
Counting driving through them, I've been to probably 44 states. We used to Road Trip a lot when my siblings and I were young. Never left the country.
I counted it up and I think I've been to 38 actually. Some of those were drive throughs, but most of them are legit.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Gibbering Fool » 24 Jun 2021, 10:35

Haha I've only been to Hawaii

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das_boot
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 24 Jun 2021, 13:29

Hmmmm

Portugal, Mainland Spain, Corfu, Menorca, Fuertaventura, Dublin, Belgium, France, DC and New York. Technically we also got a smoke break between DC and New York, so whichever of the states is on that highway 🤷‍♂️. Also Scotland ❤️ and Wales

My bucket list includes: more of America, Canada, South America, the parts of Africa I won’t be killed just for being gay, Japan, whichever country Transylvania is in because ya boi’s still a slut for the spooky, Oz/NZ, Norway and Iceland because if I die without seeing more of the northern lights than I saw when they fleetingly appeared when I was visiting Dundee, I’ll be LIVID.
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tokenBG1009
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by tokenBG1009 » 24 Jun 2021, 14:30

Anna Raven wrote:
24 Jun 2021, 03:56
BardicOne wrote:
24 Jun 2021, 02:38
Counting driving through them, I've been to probably 44 states. We used to Road Trip a lot when my siblings and I were young. Never left the country.
I counted it up and I think I've been to 38 actually. Some of those were drive throughs, but most of them are legit.
If I count drive through/layover i could add Tennessee, Colorado, and Utah. I never left the terminals in any of those three though.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by EphemeristX » 24 Jun 2021, 15:01

das_boot wrote:
24 Jun 2021, 13:29
Hmmmm

Portugal, Mainland Spain, Corfu, Menorca, Fuertaventura, Dublin, Belgium, France, DC and New York. Technically we also got a smoke break between DC and New York, so whichever of the states is on that highway 🤷‍♂️. Also Scotland ❤️ and Wales

My bucket list includes: more of America, Canada, South America, the parts of Africa I won’t be killed just for being gay, Japan, whichever country Transylvania is in because ya boi’s still a slut for the spooky, Oz/NZ, Norway and Iceland because if I die without seeing more of the northern lights than I saw when they fleetingly appeared when I was visiting Dundee, I’ll be LIVID.
You also get northern lights in Canada and Alaska.

I've been to... about 20 states. Mostly south east. Major city-wise, I've been to Chicago, Detroit, and New Orleans. Detroit at night was beautiful in a sort of terrifying way. Not because of the economic decline (my home town looks similar), but because the night sky is lit up with jets of fire like some sort of techno-industrial sci-fi landscape.

Because the US is so big, we don't have quite the need to visit other countries as other folks. We can visit just about every climate type without leaving our borders. Everything from tropical beaches to desert to deep woodlands, tundras, mountains, even rainforest. It's kinda wild that I took all that for granted for so long.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 24 Jun 2021, 16:07

We’re in Florence and going to Rome tomorrow…

Nature beauty wise it’s my favorite European countries I’ve been to so far. People-wise, I’d say it’s up there (I really really enjoyed visiting Bath in the UK…I could’ve stayed there forever lol). Cinque Terre was super nice too, reminds me of the Amalfi Coast.

I’ve been to every state of except the ones of the middle of the country, so Utah, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Idaho, Kansas, And New Mexico along with our distant cousins Hawaii and Alaska.

I don’t know if I’ll ever visit any of them except NM and Hawaii, since my fiancee refuses to visit a state that Trump won in 2020 lol…

My personal favorites: Maine, Oregon, California, Colorado, and super super clean Las Vegas…like how the hell is one city that clean?????
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 24 Jun 2021, 16:26

I've been to Vegas twice and I don't recall it being particularly clean...? Do you mean Downtown Vegas? We stayed mainly on strip and did a bit of Fremont Street (PROPA tourists, us). The Strip was pretty grim, Fremont looked a bit tidier (I think there'd been some re-investment) but it didn't strike me as particularly 'tidy'.

In terms of cleanliness, Abu Dhabi was spotless and one of the tidiest places I've ever been. It was also terrifying in how new it all looked.
Bizarrely, DisneyWorld (as a humungous tourist trap) in Orlando was also mint in terms of cleanliness, but that's kind of its deal. That's different class compared to our equivelent tourist theme parks like Thorpe Park or Alton Towers, which are rough as a badger's arse. Particularly the latter, cos it's northern, obviously.

In terms of contrast... Rio De Janeiro was filthy. We didn't go near any favellas (I fancy my life as a Western European, thank you very much) and even the 'tourist' areas were an absolute shit-tip. Also, nothing worked. My mate lived there for six years, after two weeks I was thoroughly fed up with how grossly mismanaged the entire gaffe was.

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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by tokenBG1009 » 24 Jun 2021, 16:57

I recall Vegas being extremely clean as well.

I've only met two people who have been in Italy for long periods of time and I've always heard it's a pretty gross place. Maybe it's a matter of the area around the base(s) are just poorly kept up. I imagine the more touristy places are better maintained to keep the money coming in.
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 24 Jun 2021, 17:23

I think there's some serious financial issues in Italy, which means (in parts) there's some big problems in waste management. It's not something I personally noticed either time I was there (2014 and 2019) but one of my old colleague's family lived in Rome, and the infrastructure for dealing with waste was meant to have completely fallen apart. Plus there's corruption and criminality that means it's harder for the Govt. to get a grip of.

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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by tokenBG1009 » 24 Jun 2021, 17:39

Rome, in particular, was the area mentioned as having major issues. This was also back in the 80s (my daddy) and late 00s (a good friend) when each lived there.
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