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Re: Random Thoughts

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das_boot
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 10 Jun 2021, 10:47

Blackcyclops wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 10:40
Anna Raven wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 05:36
My thought is that almost everyone who "race-bends" (not sure what to call it?) is doing it to get away with something selfish. Dolezeal did it to achieve a high rank and status in a group that was locked to her by a race barrier. Elizabeth Warren and others who claim Native American heritage that does not exist are USUALLY doing it for some kind of "street cred" or a sense of appropriation at best, and outright fraud at trying to get financial benefits at worst.
Exactly…I’ve not heard of a situation where a transman, for example, does something close to what Dolezeal did in an organization.

Furthermore, many of these people who do so also have the added benefit of being able to recuse their non-whiteness when it is beneficial to them.

THIS TOO. Also, I think there’s a distinct difference between upbringing (so, someone white who grew up in a predominantly black/Hispanic community who adopts facets of that culture) and someone like Dolezal.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 10 Jun 2021, 11:18

das_boot wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 10:45
Trans identities are far more complex than self-identification though. So like… hm. Okay, this might be meandering slightly but I really do think it’s important to explain the surgical aspects that you mentioned.
I think... and again, I'm not trans so it is just my understanding after reading different perspectives... trans identity can be MUCH more than just self-ID - for all the very, very significant surgical changes you mentioned. BUT...it can also be just self-ID. So to self-ID as trans without surgical changes does not invalidate that person's status as trans, if they identify as such.

There is no one 'route' for transition - seemingly, there is not a one-size fits all tickbox process. The challenge of this in some of the discourse regarding trans identity seemingly suggests it is a VERY broad umbrella term - it is seemingly, everything from non-binary, to gender-fluid, to non-surgical presentation through to top-half only, or top and bottom half surgeries. For example, for two of the people you work with, non-binary is a 'stepping-stone' on the route to an intended transition, but for others non-binary is the destination, rather than the journey (does that make sense?) with no intent on further steps towards one gender or the other, but that 'mid-point' on the spectrum is where they are happiest.

Then there's the difficult questions about 'passing' (and yeah, it's horrid phrase which is why I put in quotes, but I'm not sure if there's a better term?) - does self-identification (either with or without any of the surgical changes you mention) as trans essentially limit 'passing'? I don't know. There's probably many, many trans people who would not obviously be trans to a casual observer in most day-to-day interactions and be treated socially as their presenting gender but by identifying additionally and publicly as a transperson it makes it evident to an observer that they are trans (well, duh), and not members of the natal/biological sex associated with their presented gender. It is that very identification of being trans (rather than just being a man/woman) that may cause different social reactions by those around them.

Of course, the degree to which a trans person would 'pass' (again, apologies, I understand it's clumsy language, so if there's a better term, please do let me know!) may well depend on what changes they have made. If a transwoman still has a beard, a very muscular frame and wears 'masculine' clothes (whatever they are!) but she still perceives herself and presents herself to be a woman, there's probably going to be cognitive dissonance by an observer. Alternatively, a transwoman who has had full top and bottom surgery, has taken many of the very serious changes you mentioned before, may well find she is accepted as a woman in pretty much all of her social interactions with others. Both women are still trans but the way these women are presenting would have very different societal interactions that either affirm their self-ID or confront it.

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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 10 Jun 2021, 12:32

Honestly (and not to be dismissive here at all, I’m not using this blunt statement as an “STFU SK” here), I really think that if people spent less time preoccupied with which way a person identifies and more on “is this person a good person that I enjoy the company of and can learn from their perspectives”, the world would be a much happier place for trans, NB, and cisgendered folk.

But again, it’s more complex than that— in reference to the two folk at work who want to transition, NB isn’t a stepping stone for them at all. I don’t fully understand it and therefore wouldn’t want to comment beyond this statement, but I know of those two people and another person (who used to be a regular here when they identified as a straight male), who either want to transition or are in the process of transitioning, but still consider themselves to be non-binary— for the people I work with, its 100% that they feel more “male” than female (whatever the hell that means), but that they also feel that even were they to fully transition to male, they would feel a lot more like they were now the male side of the non-binary spectrum.

I know this is confusing. I know. I consider myself to be slightly better informed than average and it still twists my brain a little, but that’s because this isn’t my truth. For cis-gendered people, the most we can do is empathise and seek to understand— that’s literally what trans folk need from us as cis-gendered allies. Gender existing on a spectrum rather than a binary position confuses people more than sexuality existing on a spectrum, because for whatever reason, most rational and intelligent humans can comprehend (if not relate to) people wanting to experience the full gamut of adult human sexuality. But for some reason, gender being a spectrum still really confuses folk.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 10 Jun 2021, 13:00

It is interesting to see how dynamic definitions of who belongs to what gender or race are. Gender boundary changes, by and large, have been less closely tied to commerce in a “hard” way. So when, pink switched to being for girls and blue for boys, sure new toys and clothes had to be made but the stakes weren’t as high. Whereas, who is or isn’t Black, for example, has meant literal freedom or bondage for people. Or for the Irish, it meant going from being a people who are excluded to being included in the larger privileged group. Part of this can be probably be explained by how gender is usually seen as being a dichotomy, whereas there are multiple racial categories. Since to many structures you can only male or female, it forces people to make choices without nuance. Whereas, with the ever changing racial categories, you can go from Other to Asian to white. And we’ve seen that happen over time due to various social and political factors.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 10 Jun 2021, 13:13

das_boot wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 12:32

But again, it’s more complex than that— in reference to the two folk at work who want to transition, NB isn’t a stepping stone for them at all. I don’t fully understand it and therefore wouldn’t want to comment beyond this statement, but I know of those two people and another person (who used to be a regular here when they identified as a straight male), who either want to transition or are in the process of transitioning, but still consider themselves to be non-binary— for the people I work with, its 100% that they feel more “male” than female (whatever the hell that means), but that they also feel that even were they to fully transition to male, they would feel a lot more like they were now the male side of the non-binary spectrum.
Apologies, I got totally confused on this because you said they wanted to transition. Okay, I didn't know (probably stupidly, given the variety of gender identities) that people who would typically transition on a surgical/medical level would have a binary identity rather than a non-binary one post surgical/medical transition.

Excuse my idiocy on this. I'm trying to wrap my head around a lot of this, and on this the more I read the more my poor head goes spinning like that girl out of the Exorcist.

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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by P-90 » 10 Jun 2021, 13:16

das_boot wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 12:32
Honestly (and not to be dismissive here at all, I’m not using this blunt statement as an “STFU SK” here), I really think that if people spent less time preoccupied with which way a person identifies and more on “is this person a good person that I enjoy the company of and can learn from their perspectives”, the world would be a much happier place for trans, NB, and cisgendered folk.

But again, it’s more complex than that— in reference to the two folk at work who want to transition, NB isn’t a stepping stone for them at all. I don’t fully understand it and therefore wouldn’t want to comment beyond this statement, but I know of those two people and another person (who used to be a regular here when they identified as a straight male), who either want to transition or are in the process of transitioning, but still consider themselves to be non-binary— for the people I work with, its 100% that they feel more “male” than female (whatever the hell that means), but that they also feel that even were they to fully transition to male, they would feel a lot more like they were now the male side of the non-binary spectrum.

I know this is confusing. I know. I consider myself to be slightly better informed than average and it still twists my brain a little, but that’s because this isn’t my truth. For cis-gendered people, the most we can do is empathise and seek to understand— that’s literally what trans folk need from us as cis-gendered allies. Gender existing on a spectrum rather than a binary position confuses people more than sexuality existing on a spectrum, because for whatever reason, most rational and intelligent humans can comprehend (if not relate to) people wanting to experience the full gamut of adult human sexuality. But for some reason, gender being a spectrum still really confuses folk.
I think the confusion is that with sexuality there's nothing tangible to 'put you finger on', it's a personal preference whereas sex have a tangible physical aspect, regardless of how someone feels there is always that basic physical reality. That's why some have an issue with the term 'assigned at birth' like someone arbitrarily chose what sex a person would be.

It also doesn't help that there are people now saying that there are 'over 100 genders' which does a tremendous disservice to trans people, I've seen several trans people on TV shows arguing that the idea that there's more than two genders, that gender is a spectrum, goes against everything they as a community have been fighting for.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 10 Jun 2021, 13:25

P-90 wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 13:16
It also doesn't help that there are people now saying that there are 'over 100 genders' which does a tremendous disservice to trans people, I've seen several trans people on TV shows arguing that the idea that there's more than two genders, that gender is a spectrum, goes against everything they as a community have been fighting for.
I tend to think it's almost impossible for a community to speak as one voice. I instinctively distrust many who claim to speak on behalf of their community as a whole, at least without democratic consent, as in 99.9% of cases, you don't have to go far to find someone with the characteristics of that community to be, if not in outright opposition to that voice, ambivalent to such community representation and continue to live their life as an individual regardless of what the group think may be.

On a very different topic, but related to the idea of community and preconceived notions of views/advocacy, I watched Larry Eldar's Uncle Tom the other week. Fascinating watch, it's very Republican-friendly (apparently, that's par for the course from some of the contributors involved) but it highlighted inter-community philosophical and political conflict (and indeed distrust). I've only come across Eldar very recently, but he's a compelling speaker, if a little bit shouty.

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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 10 Jun 2021, 14:34

Spectral Knight wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 13:25
P-90 wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 13:16
It also doesn't help that there are people now saying that there are 'over 100 genders' which does a tremendous disservice to trans people, I've seen several trans people on TV shows arguing that the idea that there's more than two genders, that gender is a spectrum, goes against everything they as a community have been fighting for.
I tend to think it's almost impossible for a community to speak as one voice. I instinctively distrust many who claim to speak on behalf of their community as a whole, at least without democratic consent, as in 99.9% of cases, you don't have to go far to find someone with the characteristics of that community to be, if not in outright opposition to that voice, ambivalent to such community representation and continue to live their life as an individual regardless of what the group think may be.

THIS. Me and my friends can barely decide on which restaurant to go to as a group, so literally not a single thing on this planet could convince me that any group can have one consistent opinion across them.

Also, Re; transitioning and NB— same. Genuinely, it’s confusing when you first approach it. Without trying to sound patronising, I’ve started to think of it like a fader or dimmer switch. Yes there’s a default position of “light is on or off” but there’s so many permutations between the two. Gender is like that. There’s a female end, a male end, and then everything in between.

Maybe a colour palette would be the better choice of descriptor.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by P-90 » 10 Jun 2021, 14:47

Spectral Knight wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 13:25
P-90 wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 13:16
It also doesn't help that there are people now saying that there are 'over 100 genders' which does a tremendous disservice to trans people, I've seen several trans people on TV shows arguing that the idea that there's more than two genders, that gender is a spectrum, goes against everything they as a community have been fighting for.
I tend to think it's almost impossible for a community to speak as one voice. I instinctively distrust many who claim to speak on behalf of their community as a whole, at least without democratic consent, as in 99.9% of cases, you don't have to go far to find someone with the characteristics of that community to be, if not in outright opposition to that voice, ambivalent to such community representation and continue to live their life as an individual regardless of what the group think may be.

On a very different topic, but related to the idea of community and preconceived notions of views/advocacy, I watched Larry Eldar's Uncle Tom the other week. Fascinating watch, it's very Republican-friendly (apparently, that's par for the course from some of the contributors involved) but it highlighted inter-community philosophical and political conflict (and indeed distrust). I've only come across Eldar very recently, but he's a compelling speaker, if a little bit shouty.
Oh I agree, if that's how my comment came cross that's not what I intended, it's just something I found interesting. Also, I tend to distrust many who claim to speak on behalf of a community that they aren't a part of, you often find that the most vocal on a subject don't actually represent the opinion of the majority of the group they're 'speaking for' and what they say is often hugely condescending.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 10 Jun 2021, 15:05

das_boot wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 14:34
Spectral Knight wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 13:25
P-90 wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 13:16
It also doesn't help that there are people now saying that there are 'over 100 genders' which does a tremendous disservice to trans people, I've seen several trans people on TV shows arguing that the idea that there's more than two genders, that gender is a spectrum, goes against everything they as a community have been fighting for.
I tend to think it's almost impossible for a community to speak as one voice. I instinctively distrust many who claim to speak on behalf of their community as a whole, at least without democratic consent, as in 99.9% of cases, you don't have to go far to find someone with the characteristics of that community to be, if not in outright opposition to that voice, ambivalent to such community representation and continue to live their life as an individual regardless of what the group think may be.

THIS. Me and my friends can barely decide on which restaurant to go to as a group, so literally not a single thing on this planet could convince me that any group can have one consistent opinion across them.

Also, Re; transitioning and NB— same. Genuinely, it’s confusing when you first approach it. Without trying to sound patronising, I’ve started to think of it like a fader or dimmer switch. Yes there’s a default position of “light is on or off” but there’s so many permutations between the two. Gender is like that. There’s a female end, a male end, and then everything in between.

Maybe a colour palette would be the better choice of descriptor.
Hahaha - I work for a company that sells products to interiors designers. I can have three reps look at a product sample and have five different answers on what colour it is.

"It's blue"
"No it isn't, it's green"
"Well, it's got a bit of green in, I give you that, but it's more teal"
"Turquoise?"
"Nah, aqua's more accurate"
"It's too pale for aqua, it's closer to cerulean"
"Blah blah blah blah"

Me: "Shall I just put 'chamelonic blue-green tones' in the product description then?"

THIS IS MY LIFE.

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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Crutey Anth » 10 Jun 2021, 19:11

tokenBG1009 wrote:
09 Jun 2021, 23:08
Nu-D wrote:
09 Jun 2021, 22:57
tokenBG1009 wrote:
09 Jun 2021, 18:41
TIL Rachel Dolezal still identifies as a black woman. This bothers me, but not as much as the fact she tried to say race is more fluid than gender because it's entirely a social concept.

I also used to work with a dude who swore white people were enslaved in America. It took a lot of effort and an interjection from my boss to stop me from jumping over the table and punching him in the mouth.
I confess I do not understand why Dolezal is wrong, at least on the general principle.
Race is 100% not a social construct. There as many physical differences between races as there are between men and women. This is why certain races are per-disposed to illnesses that others aren't. It's only that these differences do not inherently make one better than another. Your role in life is not determined by your race because all races are equal to one another.

Gender, on the other hand, is 100% a social construct built on physical differences. We've moved away from the strict social guidelines, but again, they're built on physical.
See I don't know if we're arguing semantics here but Race is a social construct....ethnicity is perhaps not. I think you're talking about ethnicity rather than race. i.e. there are MANY ethnicities in Africa...but they're all seen as one 'race' (black). The construct of black, white,east asian etc are constructs. Race is made up of different ethnicities grouped together for political reasons i.e. Irish people, jewish people etc either being classified as 'white' or not.

Gender and Sex is another whole can of worms because of the complicatedness of it (I was going to liken it to the above...but then more and more variables jump to mind).
Sex is biological....but whether there are two sexes (with some 'outliers') or multiple sexes which have just been grouped into a binary system is open to interpretation.

'Gender/Gender identity' correlates strongly to sex...but not perfectly (the large majority people being cisgendered).

'Gender' and 'Sex' also correlate fairly strongly with 'gender characteristics' (but there's a massive variation intrasex as well as inter-sex). The classic example is 'maths ability' where men would have a 'mean higher score' but both genders are normally distributed and 1/3 of women are better at math's than 1/2 of men, so how meaningful the difference is is debatable.

It's a real muddle really as some 'gendered characteristics' probably have a biological basis (but can be overridden by environment) and others are purely societal. It's just too complicated to pull apart which is which confidently.

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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 10 Jun 2021, 19:58

Crutey Anth wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 19:11
Race is a social construct....ethnicity is perhaps not. I think you're talking about ethnicity rather than race. i.e. there are MANY ethnicities in Africa...but they're all seen as one 'race' (black).
Sorry Crutey, whilst I appreciate the well meaning behind this in respect of your following points, the grouping of all Africans as black is short-sighted, and potentially offensive, not least in parts of the continent where there is racial discrimination.

For example, large numbers of Africans in the North of the continent may identify as Arabs rather than as Black.

Then you have white Africans who may be descended from European colonists who arrived a century ago would still be considered as African even if their race is nominally white. Africa is a geographic territory. Those who are citizens within any part of that territory would have every right to call themselves African, much like 2nd or 3rd generation migrants to the UK from the Indian sub-continent may accurately call themselves European without reference to any sort of racial characteristics.

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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 10 Jun 2021, 20:12

Well that’s dumb part about race, it really makes no sense…for example, depending on the country people who speak Arabic and thus considered Arabs can be considered white. But also you could be someone who speaks Arab and hails from a country with Arabic culture but your skin color and hair texture looks more like that of Sub-Saharan Africans and thus you get called Black.

The absurdity of race…
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Crutey Anth » 10 Jun 2021, 21:07

Spectral Knight wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 19:58
Crutey Anth wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 19:11
Race is a social construct....ethnicity is perhaps not. I think you're talking about ethnicity rather than race. i.e. there are MANY ethnicities in Africa...but they're all seen as one 'race' (black).
Sorry Crutey, whilst I appreciate the well meaning behind this in respect of your following points, the grouping of all Africans as black is short-sighted, and potentially offensive, not least in parts of the continent where there is racial discrimination.

For example, large numbers of Africans in the North of the continent may identify as Arabs rather than as Black.

Then you have white Africans who may be descended from European colonists who arrived a century ago would still be considered as African even if their race is nominally white. Africa is a geographic territory. Those who are citizens within any part of that territory would have every right to call themselves African, much like 2nd or 3rd generation migrants to the UK from the Indian sub-continent may accurately call themselves European without reference to any sort of racial characteristics.
Sorry ‘slip of the tongue’/I thought via context it would be clear I meant ‘black African’ (the many ethnicities which make up the ‘African diaspora’) like how ‘African American’ doesn’t mean Elon Musk (though I now realise he’s mam is Canadian not American so he wouldn’t fit any definition...except how Canada is actually part of America). Apologies for the blunder in terminology

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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by P-90 » 10 Jun 2021, 21:34

One of the biggest misconception concerning race is how so many people seem to think there's some sort of typical African 'look' when there's huge differences across the continent (as there are across other continents). Nigerians look completely different to Somalis for example, not just in the skin tone but in their facial features. One of the most notable examples of this misconception is many people's notion of what Egyptians look like.
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 10 Jun 2021, 22:03

Blackcyclops wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 20:12
Well that’s dumb part about race, it really makes no sense…for example, depending on the country people who speak Arabic and thus considered Arabs can be considered white. But also you could be someone who speaks Arab and hails from a country with Arabic culture but your skin color and hair texture looks more like that of Sub-Saharan Africans and thus you get called Black.

The absurdity of race…
Indeed, the absurdities around lots of things to do with race are mind boggling. Even when scientific consensus is that we're all pretty much descended from the cradle of humanity in Africa and for large parts of us, our ancestry drifts from country to continent in a myriad of different ways. I wonder if in time the divisions in race will dissipate.

As someone with family who could be conceivably divided by racial categories from external observers (my 1st cousins' kids range from white Americans to white/black Americans of mixed race, to Japanese-Americans, so look completely different despite sharing 2 grandparents and 4 great grandparents between them), I certainly hope so. But... I'm not certain the outlook is completely positive in my lifetime (or even theirs - most of whom are "half" a generation younger than I - as my cousins on that side are all quite a bit older than me).

Indeed, even as a kid I remember one of my friends back in primary school was astounded to see Afro-Carribean as an ethnicity on some equal opportunities form thing we had to fill in. Sure, he considered himself Black, but from his point of view, he was Black British. Whilst I think he did have ancestry in Africa and the Caribbean, neither geographic region held any cultural resonance for him at all, certainly nothing compared to the country of his and his parents' birth and life, and yet he was asked to classify himself by his ancestry. I think he ended up putting other and just writing in Black British instead :lol:

I guess this illustrates the complexities of ethnicity, race, national or continental affinity or citizenship, and culture may all contribute in their influence on either our own identity or others' assumptions of identity even if it can totally bizarre divisions when looked a rational level.
Crutey Anth wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 21:07
Spectral Knight wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 19:58
Crutey Anth wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 19:11
Race is a social construct....ethnicity is perhaps not. I think you're talking about ethnicity rather than race. i.e. there are MANY ethnicities in Africa...but they're all seen as one 'race' (black).
Sorry Crutey, whilst I appreciate the well meaning behind this in respect of your following points, the grouping of all Africans as black is short-sighted, and potentially offensive, not least in parts of the continent where there is racial discrimination.

For example, large numbers of Africans in the North of the continent may identify as Arabs rather than as Black.

Then you have white Africans who may be descended from European colonists who arrived a century ago would still be considered as African even if their race is nominally white. Africa is a geographic territory. Those who are citizens within any part of that territory would have every right to call themselves African, much like 2nd or 3rd generation migrants to the UK from the Indian sub-continent may accurately call themselves European without reference to any sort of racial characteristics.
Sorry ‘slip of the tongue’/I thought via context it would be clear I meant ‘black African’ (the many ethnicities which make up the ‘African diaspora’) like how ‘African American’ doesn’t mean Elon Musk (though I now realise he’s mam is Canadian not American so he wouldn’t fit any definition...except how Canada is actually part of America). Apologies for the blunder in terminology
No need to apologise at all, I'd have thought... like I said, anyone who read the rest of your post wouldn't have thought any ill will at all. Though you do raise an interesting point re: the use of "American", which typically I understand to be someone specifically from the USA rather than the wider two continents that are the "Americas". The US isn't even the largest country (by area) in North America, and yet it becomes synonymous with the landmass as a whole.

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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by tokenBG1009 » 10 Jun 2021, 22:21

Crutey Anth wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 21:07
Spectral Knight wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 19:58
Crutey Anth wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 19:11
Race is a social construct....ethnicity is perhaps not. I think you're talking about ethnicity rather than race. i.e. there are MANY ethnicities in Africa...but they're all seen as one 'race' (black).
Sorry Crutey, whilst I appreciate the well meaning behind this in respect of your following points, the grouping of all Africans as black is short-sighted, and potentially offensive, not least in parts of the continent where there is racial discrimination.

For example, large numbers of Africans in the North of the continent may identify as Arabs rather than as Black.

Then you have white Africans who may be descended from European colonists who arrived a century ago would still be considered as African even if their race is nominally white. Africa is a geographic territory. Those who are citizens within any part of that territory would have every right to call themselves African, much like 2nd or 3rd generation migrants to the UK from the Indian sub-continent may accurately call themselves European without reference to any sort of racial characteristics.
Sorry ‘slip of the tongue’/I thought via context it would be clear I meant ‘black African’ (the many ethnicities which make up the ‘African diaspora’) like how ‘African American’ doesn’t mean Elon Musk (though I now realise he’s mam is Canadian not American so he wouldn’t fit any definition...except how Canada is actually part of America). Apologies for the blunder in terminology
There's a reason I never refer to myself as "African American" and detest the entire phrase. There was a joke back when John Kerry was running for president that his wife would be the first "African American first lady" because she's from East Africa. I promise you that if he had been elected and then Barrack was elected there would be a ton of bad actors screaming about how Michelle Obama is NOT the first African American first lady. This same thing happened with Pete Buttigieg being the "first LGBTQ+ member in a cabinet level position" this year because Trump appointed Richard Grenell to acting Director of National Intelligence. Then when people pointed out Pete was the first senate confirmed Grenell showed he WAS cabinet confirmed... as an Ambassador.

Anyways! This is why I refer to myself as a Black American and not an African American because my ancestral ties to Africa are so small at this point it is pointless.

(Also, Elon Musk is a naturalized American citizen so he would pretty much qualify as an African American at this point.)
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 10 Jun 2021, 22:24

Actually United States of America is us. The rest of the continent is the Americas.
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tokenBG1009
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by tokenBG1009 » 10 Jun 2021, 23:00

Blackcyclops wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 22:24
Actually United States of America is us. The rest of the continent is the Americas.
I've seen so many arguments about this. Usually from 'Muricans who refuse to understand that the US is not AMERICA.
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Anna Raven
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Anna Raven » 11 Jun 2021, 00:52

tokenBG1009 wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 23:00
Blackcyclops wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 22:24
Actually United States of America is us. The rest of the continent is the Americas.
I've seen so many arguments about this. Usually from 'Muricans who refuse to understand that the US is not AMERICA.
Map Men did a great (and hilarious) video on this recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfXoUaeLcDU
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Nu-D
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Nu-D » 11 Jun 2021, 02:55

Anna Raven wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 00:52
tokenBG1009 wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 23:00
Blackcyclops wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 22:24
Actually United States of America is us. The rest of the continent is the Americas.
I've seen so many arguments about this. Usually from 'Muricans who refuse to understand that the US is not AMERICA.
Map Men did a great (and hilarious) video on this recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfXoUaeLcDU

Generally, the demonym “American” refers to people from the United States. The adjective “American” can describe anything pertaining to the Western Hemisphere.

I’m reminded of my favorite poem from E.B. White:

To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner.
To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast.

To be clear, I eat pie for breakfast whenever it’s available.
He/him/his

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Cable
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Re: Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Cable » 11 Jun 2021, 03:10

BardicOne wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 02:46
I'm just gonna "like" the past few pages. So much respect in these forums even on hot-button issues. Love all y'all.

Also is no one reading Amazing Spider-Man? Dude they brought back Blood Rose. Fisk Jr. is alive again. I'm stunned and intrigued.
Well of course I read it (it is in my signature) and I made a thread and we can all go and talk about it and be best friends.
Best Comics of Week 23

X-titles: X-Men #21 by Jonathan Hickman (1) and Russell Dauterman (1), Nick Dragotta (1), Sara Pichelli (1), Lucas Werneck (1)
Non-X titles: Squadron Savage by Ethan Sacks (1) and Luca Pizzari (1)

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Spectral Knight
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 11 Jun 2021, 04:26

Regarding the USA/America it makes me laugh a little bit as whilst USA clearly refers to the United States of America, the states of America are not united given the other nation States in America that are not part of the USA.

See also UAE - which does not include the Arab Emirate nation states of Bahrain or Qatar, nor the other Emirates integrated into the numerous other Arab nation states.

I think the UK just about gets away with this creative use of language as our full nation name is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Though you could argue that Donegal (which I think actually is the most northern county of the island of Ireland) is in the Republic of Ireland, then the Northern Ireland part is a misnomer.

Lots of these weird misnomers exist in nation States though, the DPRK is anything but Democratic :lol:

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Blackcyclops
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 12 Jun 2021, 03:33

Since Broad City ended, I feared that my TV love for the intricacies of New York oddity would go unfulfilled…but thank god I have Betty (season 2 just started!) and Flatbush Misdemeanors. The two shows give a pretty good view of young urban, cosmopolitan lives among diverse groups of people…with Flatbush having the most accurate portrayal of like everyday, regular Black folks’ slang and vernacular on TV.
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XtremeOne1
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by XtremeOne1 » 12 Jun 2021, 19:25

Anyone check out Hacks on HBO? That was hilarious, well acted and had some really excellent character development.

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