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Random Thoughts

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das_boot
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 05 Oct 2018, 13:32

I’ve always said that if I were to have a baby via surrogate (I’m gay, we can’t get pregnant), I would want my partner and I to... um... basically if we had one child, I wouldn’t want to know who the father was unless we decided to have a second or if some major health issue arose.

That said... I’d probably opt for adoption. On my father’s side there’s a history of dementia, Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, arthritis, several aggressive cancers, heart disease... and pretty much the same on my mother’s side. Add to that, out of my generation there’s five out of my twelve cousins (including myself, and on both sides of the family) that have suffered with mental health issues to a degree, from depression, anxiety, eating disorders, full-blown psychotic episodes...

Like... knowing that there’s genetic predisposition to ALL of those things, why would I place emphasis on genetic proximity as to whether a child is mine or not? Morals and values are what I could pass down to a child.

That said, seven years single so i’m not exactly in any rush. I have my dog, that’ll do.
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Wings
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Wings » 05 Oct 2018, 13:53

I always thought that if I ended up with a long-term male partner that I'd lean towards adoption. And the more I thought about it the less appealing I found the thought of having children with my partner or via surrogacy in a heterosexual relationship either. There's enough kids in the world without any parents to look after them that I don't feel the need for my kids to share a genetic link to me. I'd rather adopt or foster.
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Blackcyclops
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 05 Oct 2018, 14:08

I know this is a serious topic but das saying “I’m gay, we can’t get pregnant” was hilarious...
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by EphemeristX » 05 Oct 2018, 14:10

It is nice because it removes birth control from the equation of a committed couple's sex life.
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das_boot
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 05 Oct 2018, 14:16

Blackcyclops wrote:
05 Oct 2018, 14:08
I know this is a serious topic but das saying “I’m gay, we can’t get pregnant” was hilarious...

What can I say? Aggressive buggery ruins your pelvic floor and it turns out that no matter how hard you try, you can’t burrow your way to a man’s womb through his back door 🤷‍♂️
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Nu-D » 05 Oct 2018, 20:12

das_boot wrote:
05 Oct 2018, 14:16
Blackcyclops wrote:
05 Oct 2018, 14:08
I know this is a serious topic but das saying “I’m gay, we can’t get pregnant” was hilarious...

What can I say? Aggressive buggery ruins your pelvic floor and it turns out that no matter how hard you try, you can’t burrow your way to a man’s womb through his back door 🤷‍♂️
This is fucking brilliant.

I’ve long felt that the moral calculus weighs fairly heavily towards adoption over procreation. In my view, human populations are becoming dangerously large, resource competition is causing massive suffering for the “losers” (i.e. many developing countries), and large scale environmental degradation is only going to worsen matters exponetially. Famine and food riots are coming in less than a generation. This Malthusian view is partnered with a bleak view of human nature and life itself, recognizing that most people live most of their lives in what Socrates would call the “unexamined life,” and all life inevitably results in suffering, loss and death.

From that point of view, it is far more moral to alleviate the existential suffering of an individual already born, and to reduce pressures on the global ecosystems by declining to contribute to population growth.

That said, my wife and I have been trying to conceive for a couple of years now. Medically, we’ve got some obstacles, so it might not be in our future. Going through this process, however, I recognize a very selfish, and very deep, desire for progeny. No matter which way I look at it, it’s selfish and immoral. But it’’s very, very basic. I think it’s probably best understood in religious or spiritual language, as a component of the human soul. Consequently, I cannot fault persons who choose to procreate, notwithstanding the fact that all reason tells me it’s generally a net-increase to global suffering.

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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by RingOtaku » 05 Oct 2018, 20:22

My best friend for nigh on twenty years now is adopted. He's a great guy who loves all his family and in his mind it is HIS family. He knows he's adopted but he don't care: These are the people he grew up with under one roof. So you know I can't really be against adoption as an option because he's proof in a loving family that genetics don't meant squat in the long run.

Me personally? I prefer being a hermit so no kids for me of any kind unless I meet Miss So-Right-I-Turn-Into-A-Suburban-Cliche.

As for the greater social moral perceptions... tell them folks to consult your P.R agent Nunya Bidnis :P
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 05 Oct 2018, 20:51

It might seem disingenuous coming from a parent but you need not be so worried about overpopulation, that’s one of those oldie but goodie liberal myths that play our on own fears (like “they will take all our jobs” is a Conservative myth). But I can kinda understand the moral dilemma...that said, i think adoption takes a special kind of bravery and heart.
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Cable » 05 Oct 2018, 22:48

Blackcyclops wrote:
05 Oct 2018, 20:51
It might seem disingenuous coming from a parent but you need not be so worried about overpopulation, that’s one of those oldie but goodie liberal myths that play our on own fears (like “they will take all our jobs” is a Conservative myth). But I can kinda understand the moral dilemma...that said, i think adoption takes a special kind of bravery and heart.
Yeah as countries become developed birth rates fall below replacement level. There are crises coming due to underpopulation. Either systems like social security will collapse as a smaller labor force cannot sustain a growing elderly population, or countries will have to increasingly rely on immigration with an ever larger foreign-born population raising the possibility of cultural strife.
Last edited by Cable on 05 Oct 2018, 23:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 05 Oct 2018, 23:14

Blackcyclops wrote:
05 Oct 2018, 20:51
It might seem disingenuous coming from a parent but you need not be so worried about overpopulation, that’s one of those oldie but goodie liberal myths that play our on own fears (like “they will take all our jobs” is a Conservative myth). But I can kinda understand the moral dilemma...that said, i think adoption takes a special kind of bravery and heart.
It doesn’t seem disingenuous at all, and I’m totally loathe to use the term “privilege” in reference to what’s essentially a biological imperative, but like... as a heterosexual in a relationship where the option to have a child biologically was available to you, why would you EVER want to jump through the hoops of providing income statements and going through rounds and rounds of assessments to adopt a child? It’s not disingenuous and furthermore, it’s literally what your primal drives are telling you to do... so you did it.
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 05 Oct 2018, 23:31

But I wanted my bias to be laid bare...I mean it’s hard for me to argue against having children when I feel that becoming a parent is like the single greatest thing I’ve ever done lol
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 08 Oct 2018, 09:00

While the idea of a child currently scares the living bejeesus out of me (I can barely look after myself let alone an infant needing around-the-clock care) - when me and the missus do decide to have kids, I'd really like it to be our own if possible, rather than adopt. My gf's has some genetic issues (a bit complex, I don't really understand it), so pragmatically, we'd probably have to speak to doctors before we commit to starting a new family, but I think there's something quite primal about wanting to carry on the family line.

If we can't have kids, I don't think adoption's out of the question, and for sure there's plenty of kids who need loving parents. I for one would be a little bit more scared taking 'ownership' of another's child though. I think there's also some realistic questions we'd have to ask ourselves - could we adopt a child who's a bit older, and may well have been through the ringer of the social services circus etc. That's a big ask to not just take on a child and provide it with love, but also try and make up for lost years. Adopting a baby would seem a bit more easy. But again, I've no idea what to do with kids (my gf always laughs at my inability to hold a child younger than 6 months old for fear of dropping them!) at the moment, so all if this is very hypothetical :lol:
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by tokenBG1009 » 08 Oct 2018, 21:50

Maybe it's the fact I myself am not particularly close to my family that I rather adoption than having one of my own. Plus there's the fact that, to me, adoption is no different. They would still carry on the family name. After all, I accept an in-law as family so why would an adopted child be any different?

No offense, really I promise, but to say an adopted child is not carrying on the family line is admitting they're a lesser child in my opinion.
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Spectral Knight » 09 Oct 2018, 00:46

Yeah maybe I worded it a little badly.

It's not so much a lesser child - more that I think it's something more intuitive / natural (again don't want to cause any offence to anyone either) to me to want a child of our own genetics than of someone else's genetic origin.

I think there's also a little bit of curiosity - wanting to see how a genetic melting pot of me and the missus' contribution ends up. Would little s/he have mine or her eyes/colouring/build/smile etc - all those other cheesy factors people talk about as children grow up.

Thinking in more detail (God, I hate when you guys make me use my brain!) there's probably a bit of a fear too. What if they want to find their genetic parents? I know honesty is needed to let them know as they get older they're adopted but what if they (quite rightly) want to find out about them. I can imagine that being quite tough as an adopted mother or father especially knowing the potential for heartache.

I think back to my own family and my dad's older half brother was adopted by a step mum (essentially his father told him that this woman was his mother when they collected him after a war time evacuation) and knew nothing about it. It was only through one of these genetic family tree things that we established contact with his son (So my cousin) at which point everything came out in the wash. It wasn't an idyllic reunion by any stretch, he wanted nothing to do with us and my dad (who always knew he had an older half brother out there) lost the ideal of a brother he could have known and ended up with the reality knowing he didn't want to even speak to him. Now understandably very personal scenario and by no means is every adoption as traumatic as that but like all things experience colours opinions and thought processes.
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Oct 2018, 17:12

If this costume looks this good during the actual show, it will easily be the best sBat-costume on film:

https://www.cbr.com/arrowverse-batwoman-costume/
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Cable » 10 Oct 2018, 16:32

One cool thing about living in Pennsylvania: we have self-uniting marriage licenses. This means my fiancee and I can get legally married without an officiant, just reciting the vows to each other in front of two witnesses.
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Blackcyclops » 10 Oct 2018, 17:27

Cable wrote:
10 Oct 2018, 16:32
One cool thing about living in Pennsylvania: we have self-uniting marriage licenses. This means my fiancee and I can get legally married without an officiant, just reciting the vows to each other in front of two witnesses.


Wait...really? Any links???
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Cable » 10 Oct 2018, 18:38

Blackcyclops wrote:
10 Oct 2018, 17:27
Cable wrote:
10 Oct 2018, 16:32
One cool thing about living in Pennsylvania: we have self-uniting marriage licenses. This means my fiancee and I can get legally married without an officiant, just reciting the vows to each other in front of two witnesses.


Wait...really? Any links???
I do not know if all counties in PA will do it. We received our self-uniting license in Erie County. You will literally find no information about it on their official website. But we had heard rumor of it and looked into it. Originally this was only an exception for people of the Quaker faith (Pennsylvania was founded as a Quaker colony by William Penn.) But a few years ago someone won a Supreme Court case that stated Pennsylvania must not discriminate and must offer this type of marriage to all people. We read some stories online of couples having a hard time getting one, being questioned about their religion and denied and having to get a lawyer etc., but when we went to get one in Erie County we had no problems at all. We asked for a self-uniting license and they gave it to us no questions asked and there were no additional fees or requirements beyond what they list for a traditional license. Allegheny County actually does mention it on their website.
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 14 Oct 2018, 11:12

I’ve always said when it comes to marriage, I’d far rather just elope. I really can’t be bothered with the politics of it and frankly, the cost. I’d rather avoid having to talk to people about them being invited to the evening reception vs the actual full day, whether I’d want kids there or not (Not, and even then, I’m confident that i’d only be able to be battered down to the well-behaved children at an absolute stretch), the well-meaning “oh well if you invite great aunt so-and-so on your mum’s side, you have to invite these people from your dad’s side really”... NO. STOP. NO. I’ll happily run away, taking only a couple of friends as witnesses, announce it via Facebook and then invite people to some kind of party afterwards and either way... I still really don’t care that much.

Besides, I’d have to find someone foolish enough to marry me first #foreveralone
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by Crutey Anth » 14 Oct 2018, 13:03

Ditto, my friends got a cheap wedding somewhere where they were limited to 20 guests (10 each). I was saying that would be easy for me (Mam, Dad, Sister, nephews X2, her partner, 2 best friends, 2 work best-friends)...done, everyone else can see it on social media.


ANYWAY....I got an unlimited cinema card this year and have well and truly made the most of it. 36 movies so far since January....it would have been in the 40s if I didn't waiver to my girlfriend not wanting to see some (I'm happy to go alone, if there's nothing else to do but when its the choice of cinema alone or spending time with people, people win).

I'm hoping I can get to 48 by the end of December...which will mean that every trip has been exactly half-price! (given the cost of the unlimited card and cinema tickets....though that doesn't include the discounts I got on food from the cinema complex)

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Shape of Water
3 Billboards
Deadpool 2
Antman 2
Searching
A Star is Born
Molly's Game
I Tonya
Infinity War
Black Panther

Blackkklansman may edge Deadpool 2 out and make it hmmm

With a special mention to Hotel Artemis which I thought was just a time killer one rainy afternoon which actually turned out to be 'stylish' and fun

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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 15 Oct 2018, 22:26

So, at work tonight the conversation turned to children and adoption/actual magic of creation, and I reiterated my points I made here as well as some other points I don’t think I actually made here, so I’ll elaborate them further here.

Basically, as much as I think times have changed, like... most of you know me well enough by now to know that patience isn’t exactly a character trait that I possess. So, I said that the most soul-destroyingly tedious thing I could ever think of would be... okay, so i’m going to set the scene for you here.

Me and my future partner, Chris Evans/Hemsworth/Pratt/Pine turn up to pick our child up from school. Already there’s the side-eye of “who is that beautiful man with Chris?” followed by the whispers of “ARE THEY THOSE GAY DADS WHO ARE DADS WHO ARE GAY”, and then of course one brave/stupid/ignorant soul is going to ask us if this is the case. We’d catch them looking at our child and then at us, and trying to figure out which of us is the “REAL” dad. Hell, this is Susan, she’s a right cowbag and she even asks the question of which of us is the REAL dad. When we dead-eye stare her out and say that we’re BOTH the child’s father, Susan, bitch of the universe, then does this nervous little laugh that she thinks is endearing and cute (spoiler alert Susan, it is NOT), and asks if our child is biologically one of ours or... and the “or” just hangs there like it was the end of a sentence because she can’t bring herself to say the word “adopted”. So we say it for her. “ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY ADOPTED YOU ABSOLUTE WARLOCK OF A WOMAN?”. She laughs nervously.

I’ve decided that I can’t cope with that. It either feels like too much of an annoyance but also like... it’s not QUITE awkward enough for Susan the hateful queen of hell in this scenario.

The only possible way that I could make this more awkward would be to adopt a child from literally every kind of ethnicity other than Caucasian that I can possibly find just so that I can not only accuse Susan the vile demonness of being homophobic and anti-adoption, but also racist.

If I marry someone other than the four Chrises and they happen to be of a different ethnicity to me, this plan entirely falls to shit, but i’ll still find a way to get her. FUCK YOU SUSAN. FUCK YOU.
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by EphemeristX » 15 Oct 2018, 22:39

Just explain to Susan that you mixed your sperms up in a blender and impregnated that nice lesbian down the block a la Glee.

I think that might shut her up.
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das_boot
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by das_boot » 15 Oct 2018, 22:59

I swear to god I don’t even know who Susan is and i’m So mad at her right now.
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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by EvilMonkeyPope » 15 Oct 2018, 23:55

Susan's slept with Australia!

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Re: Random Thoughts

Post by RingOtaku » 16 Oct 2018, 03:58

Please wash that sperm blender very thoroughly before using it for the making of milkshakes.
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