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Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

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Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Flapflop » 08 Nov 2017, 10:28

As a follow up on the discussione here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7964

And the follow reactions
InsipidLust wrote:
08 Nov 2017, 00:49
Blackcyclops wrote:
07 Nov 2017, 22:36
Crazy part is Bendis’s X-Men is highly regarded by people outside the X-community
I would, in a separate thread, love to talk to people about what they loved about this run. What worked well? What landed? What was well executed?
Here the thread to talk Bendis X-Legacy (e.a. Avengers vs X-men, All new X-men volume 1, Uncanny X-men volume 3, Battle of the Atom).

For me, it started on a high note but fell flat quickly.

- The 05 staying to long for my taste, heck they are still here (maybe it was better to let them go back after Battle of the Atom),
- We got a selfish orginal ape-beast and a dark beast with strange motives.
- Cyclops' revolution/modus operandi never really came to fruitation. What was his plan anyway? I thought he was becoming a kind of Magneto: protecting mutants against all costs with his own followers, that would be cool. But most of the time he's is only doubting himself and in the end he sends his students to Storm/Wolverine and we only got a march on Washington.
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Nu-D » 08 Nov 2017, 18:59

I think you have to trace Bendis’ X-Legacy as far back as House of M and the undoing of the forward momentum endowed by Morrison to the X-Line. Bendis wasn’t the only writer bent on pushing back the clock, but he designed and implemented the framework for the endeavor that has been the bane of the X-Titles ever since.

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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Flapflop » 09 Nov 2017, 10:27

True, it goes back to House of M. It annulled almost everything of the Morrison years and started the whole Mutants are Endangered Species theme. First it was for a long time because the ramifications of the No More Mutants spell ofcourse. But when that was resolved in AvsX they thought up the M-pox to keep them endangered species. Now that is over but we get the deportation law.
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by grief » 09 Nov 2017, 15:35

I didn't get Bendis' Uncanny X-Men and I stopped getting All-New after the first arc, so I feel like that demonstrates my dislike of his work at this point in general. But I did get all of BotA and just re-read it last week and GOD. What a frustrating arc.

The whole thing lacks a focus. I get that it stars several teams of X-character, but every event needs a focus, something that drives it. What drives this whole thing is confusion and madness. What could have been an interesting story about Wolverine's school deciding to send the 05 back (representing the personal sacrifice that super heroism demands) VS Cyclop's school wanting them to stay (representing freedom of choice, despite the selfish nature it allows) with the 05 caught in the middle is blown up with so many useless and uninteresting future characters that I can't give a crap about any of them.

The Brotherhood tells us that the 05 have to go back because they screw up the future - but we aren't told how. And don't tell me that you CAN'T because of Time Travel Rules. Bishop, Rachel, and Cable have ALL come back from the future and told the X-Men stuff. Hell, Bishop LITERALLY stopped them from being killed. The idea that the present day people cannot know about the future is just a smokescreen to keep the authors from actually having some idea of what this future is. What little information we're shown of the future - that being President Dazzler getting assassinated - is super quick, and really vague, and only interesting in that it informs Future Beast's desire to change the future. But how does he expect to change the future by sending the 05 back? And when they fail at that - for again, bullsh reasons that are ill-defined and vague, ultimately boiling down to either the author or editorial going "Nope! Don't send them back!" - Future Beast and Xorn decide to show the X-Men how unchanging humanity is by faking a SHIELD attack.

Okay. So the goal wasn't to send the 05 back, but to get the X-Men to open their eyes to the unending hate of humankind. I can get behind that. I like that. It's a very Magneto perspective and one I can't blame F-Beast for. But what does that have to do with sending the 05 back? How does them staying make things escalate between human and mutant? And if F-Beast believes that conflict is inevitable (as his SHIELD actions would indicate) then there's no point in even messing the 05. What a waste of resources and time.

I think it would have been neat to have more flasback's like F-Beasts - perhaps drop an extra five pages in the back of issue, focusing on another Future character. This could have given them more depth, fleshed out the future they come from, and given us more of a reason to care about their being here.

Then the ACTUAL Future X-Men show up and they're just as frustratingly vague with the same "Can't Tell You Anything!" crap. Jubilee literally spent time hanging out with Bishop - why she's so afraid of consequences now is baffling to me. I have the same problem here as I do with the Brotherhood - most of these characters aren't affiliated with the X-Men at all - Molly, Deadpool, Wiccan - so their inclusion has no character meaning. No one cares if Wiccan shows up, no one here except maybe Wolverine has even met him. Logan has no reaction to seeing Jubilee grown and competent and armed with laser claws, Illyana and Colossus act as if Peter is still dead, and showing us Wizard Iceman teaches us nothing new about Iceman's powers or potential. We already know he could do this - and then there's the whole "No wonder I couldn't keep a girlfriend" comment. So is Ice Wizard actually Adult Bobby and not gay? Is he Young Bobby grown up, wryly commenting on his failed relationships? WHO KNOWS, CAN'T TELL YOU CUZ ITS THE FUTURE BRO.

Finally it all resolves with NO resolution! There's - there's - there's no agency in any of the parties here. The 05 don't have to decide whether they're selfish pricks who want to screw up the future or sacrifice themselves to the altar of history heroically because they CAN'T go back in time. (Why not? WHO KNOWS EVEN MORE.) Wolverine and his school decide that they SHOULD go back, but not only is there NO follow-up on any potential solutions to the time travel thing, his team makes no effort to recover and return the 05 to their past. Magneto even states outright that he agrees with Wolverine, but then makes no move to ally with him or capture the 05 or do anything of interest (except in his own book, which wonderfully ignores all this crap). Kymaera says she's going to hunt down the Future-hood, but then doesn't, and no one seems to care that Xavier Jr, Molly, Raze, and I think F-Beast are all still free and plotting revenge or whatever. Cyclop's (and his team) learn nothing from their experience and return to their cave, Wolverine (and his team) learn nothing and keep the school open. Kitty decides that freedom of choice is more important than timeline stability and leaves the school, as if Wolverine was actually going to do anything.

I just - all of this was so DUMB and ill-thought out. It wasn't thought out. And perhaps I should give Jason Aaron and Brian Wood more crap about this arc rather than lay it all down at Bendis' feet. But 5 of the main characters are who are the "problem" for this story are HIS characters and literally HALF of this event was written by him. As someone who only read WatX and X-Men at the time, I could almost literally have not read it - just skipped the whole thing - and I would have been fine. Kymaera makes like three appearances in X-Men and then she hasn't been seen since, so that might be awkward, but geez.
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Nu-D » 09 Nov 2017, 16:21

Grief’s review is a better read than anything BMB wrote for an X-book.

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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Nov 2017, 17:01

I disagree with some basic things in this thread (supposed erasure of Morrison’s run and veneration of it) but yeah grief nailed it...that’s my feelings on everything I read (albeit not all of it) during his run.

I will to be fair, take time this weekend to read it all...re-reading stuff after the fact has led me to like things before (see alot of old X-Force).
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Cable » 09 Nov 2017, 17:40

grief wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 15:35
What little information we're shown of the future - that being President Dazzler getting assassinated - is super quick, and really vague, and only interesting in that it informs Future Beast's desire to change the future.
This seemed such flimsy reasoning by the supposed genius Beast. I mean it is hard to extrapolate much from the vague situation (we don't know anything about the current state of the country, her platform, who she ran against etc) but considering how few mutants there are, a very large amount of people must have been willing to vote for a mutant, and as far as we know also the first female President so that is a historic two-in-one, and yet because what is presumably a handful of people decide to assassinate her this means mankind is completely irredeemable? WTF?

And grief you should also read the Last Will and Testament of Charles Xavier. Just to see the trainwreck that it is.

Blackcyclops wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 17:01

I will to be fair, take time this weekend to read it all...re-reading stuff after the fact has led me to like things before (see alot of old X-Force).
I am pretty harsh on Bendis's run for the most part but might be more forgiving after some other writers clean some things up and there is more distance from it. There are certain runs that I would not like at the time but like in hindsight (Morrison's Magneto stuff, Spidey's Clone Saga)
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Nov 2017, 18:30

Clone Saga really reads much better given distance...it’s not a terrible story in segments...just too much drama for the sake of drama lol
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by grief » 09 Nov 2017, 22:38

Cable wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 17:40

This seemed such flimsy reasoning by the supposed genius Beast. I mean it is hard to extrapolate much from the vague situation (we don't know anything about the current state of the country, her platform, who she ran against etc) but considering how few mutants there are, a very large amount of people must have been willing to vote for a mutant, and as far as we know also the first female President so that is a historic two-in-one, and yet because what is presumably a handful of people decide to assassinate her this means mankind is completely irredeemable? WTF?
After I typed up my initial post, it occurred to me that I THINK that Bendis was perhaps book-ending the 05 plot point. Current Beast sees that things have gotten REALLY bad in the present, so he pulls the 05 from the past in an attempt to make things suck less. Future Beast sees that things have gotten REALLY bad in the future, so he decides to send the 05 back to the past in an attempt to make things suck less. And I like that idea - but we come back to the same issue, which is that the 05's role in making a sucky future is super vague. And hey, is Future Beast the future of Current Beast or Young Beast? We're told that Xorn is Young Jean, but the "real" identities of Ice Wizard and Beast are left up in the air. And WTF happened to future Cyclops and Angel? Did they just think all this stuff was dumb and retire?

God I hope so.

I also remembered the scene where Cyclops and the Future X-Men are going to storm the JGS after the Brotherhood have taken it. Everyone is like "Are we going to rush in and take the school?" and Cyclops went "No. We need a plan." and someone went "Okay, what's the plan?" and he replied "We kick their asses and take the school."

THAT'S THE PLAN? You're fscking CYCLOPS, your whole SCHTICK is that you're a tactician, hell, THE tactician of the X-Men! And the best plan you have is to bum rush the place? Why not have Magneto, Emma, Ice Wizard, and Phoenix assault the Mansion from the front, buying you focus and time, thus allowing Wiccan and Magik to teleport Colossus, Kymera, and Jubiverine inside so you can take down the remaining members of the Brotherhood? Magik steals Colossus anyway to sneak in, why not just make that official? And have Magneto grab some spare anti-telepathy helmets, keep Xavier Jr and Xorn out of your heads.

Or just run in. Whatever dude. That's probably why Future Cyclops didn't show up, he knew how stupid he was written under Bendis and knew better than to watch this happen.
Cable wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 17:40
And grief you should also read the Last Will and Testament of Charles Xavier. Just to see the trainwreck that it is.
I swore that I would never pay money for this particular run of Uncanny, so if anyone wants to either send it or re-up my Marvel Unlimited subscription, I'll read it. I'll hate every minute of it, but I'll read it. BUT I'LL NEVER PAY FOR IT.

Regarding House of M - I have a hard time laying all of the blame for that at Bendis' feet. My understanding is that the reversal of the explosion in the mutant population was something that Marvel Editorial wanted, so it was just a matter of how to pull it off. I'll freely admit a bevy of problems with House of M - including the execution, the characters motivation, and how an Avengers event screwed up my beloved x-books - but I think that decimating the population would have ended up happening one way or the other.

RE: The Clone Saga - I just finished reading THAT a few weeks ago. I first got into comics was right when Ben took over as Spider-Man, so I have a lot of love for that era. But I have to agree, that some of the drama is SO dumb. When Jackal starts to pull out "YOU'RE THE CLONE, SURPRISE!" during Smoke & Mirrors - and Ben and Peter BELIEVE HIM - I couldn't get my jaw to close. How stupid are they to trust a manipulative, evil, clearly insane jackass about ANYTHING? I'd've just rolled my eyes, decked him, and got on with my life. I think the Fourth Parker clone was pretty unnecessary too.
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Blackcyclops » 09 Nov 2017, 22:43

You excise about 40% of that drama and Clone Saga is a pretty epically fun story.
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by tokenBG1009 » 10 Nov 2017, 10:02

So, Battle of the Atom.

I see people praise it, but I do not understand why. It is a terrible story and maybe the worst thing he's written beside Last Will and Testament. Grief basically lays it out perfectly.

Coincidentally, I feel like the rest of the crossovers he did during his time on the X-Men were all MUCH better. The Trial of Jean Grey worked, though it had its issues. I'll need to read through it again though. Black Vortex was also a decent enough story, but I need to read it again.

Overall though? Bendis didn't have a terrible X-Men run to me. I sat and re-read both books about halfway through his run to catch up and I found I actually enjoyed them. There were definitely moments when people were vastly out of character or their voices were wrong, but he also had some extremely stellar issues in the run as well. I completely believe Bendis UNDERSTOOD most of the characters, but had a hard time finding the right tone for them.
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Milkshake08 » 15 Nov 2017, 05:11

I never liked anything by Bendis I ever read, and this was no different. He took what was fun about Ultimate X-Men and ruined it entirely (though his soft spot for Dazzler does warm my heart). And then he crapped all over the X-Men, in my opinion. So I'll go with, maybe not disaster, but more he didn't really care and it showed. I also think House of M wasn't great and AvX, while written by many, had a lot of him and his plots involved, and I hated that more than any other story I've ever read. The O5 annoy me endlessly, he botched Bobby's coming out, and then he made Dazzler emo. As usual, most of his good plots fizzled and most of his characters faded away into obscurity already. Oh, and he wrote one of the worst portrayals of Emma Frost I could imagine, which has derailed her amazing character arc completely to her current status quo.

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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by tokenBG1009 » 15 Nov 2017, 05:34

I just don't think I can agree with the idea that Bendis ruined Emma. I thought the issue where she's teaching Benjamin Deeds how to use his powers was fantastic for her and I thought the Inhumanity issue was pretty good as well. Bendis basically did nothing with Emma. Voice was off in places, but overall she didn't move forward or back.

Lemire on the other hand? Absolutely wrecked the hell out of her. If you're an Emma fan THAT is who you should hate. Not Bendis.
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Blackcyclops » 15 Nov 2017, 11:50

I will say, I think the O5 bother alot of people more because they’re time displaced copies and Bendis creations (seen some of the same people say how much they hate his other new mutants and I look confused, because alot of them are/were too underdeveloped to actually hate) than their actual actions and behavior as characters. I say that because of how some people perform mental gymnastics to explain their like for them in the non-Bendis books. But everybody has their opinion of course.
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by tokenBG1009 » 15 Nov 2017, 13:40

The O5 I can ALMOST understand. Most people didn't like them under Bendis but enjoyed them under Hopeless.

Bendis's new characters in UXN is the one I don't understand because I saw so many people who "hate" those characters enjoy them in various parts. Goldballs being the most popular followed by Morph 2.0 who is loved in Generation X, but has done nothing different there than he did in Uncanny. I remember even Tempus receiving praise in the annual.
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by InsipidLust » 15 Nov 2017, 22:39

tokenBG1009 wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 05:34
I just don't think I can agree with the idea that Bendis ruined Emma. I thought the issue where she's teaching Benjamin Deeds how to use his powers was fantastic for her and I thought the Inhumanity issue was pretty good as well. Bendis basically did nothing with Emma. Voice was off in places, but overall she didn't move forward or back.

Lemire on the other hand? Absolutely wrecked the hell out of her. If you're an Emma fan THAT is who you should hate. Not Bendis.
I can dislike them both. I think Lemire is worse, somehow, but Bendis never got Emma Frost during this run (he's done better with her elsewhere) and his understanding of her psychology was reduced to "ex-girlfriend" and "bitch" and nothing more save for two issues, where he excellence as a teacher shined through.

He didn't do much with Emma, but her victim-blaming of herself for what Cyclops did to her in the first issue, her voice, her inaction, and all sorts of other things were problematic. Lemire really put a nail in the coffin for years of Emma's characterization (she's been a good guy for far longer than she's been a villain, contrary to what Soule and Lemire like to tweet), but Bendis just doesn't equipped to write women beyond his staple tropes.

After having re-read his run, though, and looking at the covers that came out, I can't help but think that Bendis' run got profoundly derailed and that he had much bigger plans for all these characters. Sadly (or maybe not, all things considered), we'll never know.
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Milkshake08 » 16 Nov 2017, 21:56

tokenBG1009 wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 05:34
I just don't think I can agree with the idea that Bendis ruined Emma. I thought the issue where she's teaching Benjamin Deeds how to use his powers was fantastic for her and I thought the Inhumanity issue was pretty good as well. Bendis basically did nothing with Emma. Voice was off in places, but overall she didn't move forward or back.

Lemire on the other hand? Absolutely wrecked the hell out of her. If you're an Emma fan THAT is who you should hate. Not Bendis.
Here's the thing...I think Bendis derailed her because I stopped reading comics before Lemire ever got hold of her, so...yeah. Like Insipid said, there were a lot of problematic things he did with her in his run.

I barely like most of the O5 as adults, and I have a real bitterness we are stuck with them for years now while really great, original characters that could have pushed the franchise into new territory have idled in the background or been completely forgotten (Anole, Rockslide, Dust, Surge, Pixie, Prodigy, to name a few, Karima, Cecelia, and even some from Gen X and the New Mutants who before this were making a comeback). Some of these characters are coming back now, but that doesn't change the fact we've been saddled with multiple versions of the same character for years now. Even some classic favorites like Rogue, Polaris, Gambit, Havok, and Emma have been sidelined in favor of them. Yeah, Rogue is in Avengers, but so are a bunch of characters and they still get to be in their family books.

Also, I hate Bendis dialogue. Always have. I don't like how pompous he comes across when he's selling himself and his work. And while I understand he may just not be my cup of tea and others are free to disagree, I still think he (for me) ruined X-Men and he's the main reason I stopped reading for several years. I'm only just now coming back, very hesitantly, into the fold. I tried X-Men Blue from BC's suggestion and I HATE it. I HATE the O5. So that's where I'm at.

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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by grief » 17 Nov 2017, 00:30

Token was kind enough to give me a chance to read the Last Will and Testament of Charles Xavier, so first off, thanks Token! Much appreciated!

And secondly - guys, I kind of enjoyed this.

The first thing to keep in mind is that 95% of this arc is utter bullsh. Like, all of the ridiculous stuff - Xavier married to Mystique? Xavier somehow managing to hide a dangerous mutant since the 1960s despite being in space for a long time and presumed dead at least twice? Exodus as an agent of SHIELD? None of that matters. That's Bendis going nuts cuz he knows that at the end of this arc, none of it's going to matter. So I'm ignoring that and throwing it out the window. What DO I like?

Well, I like Beast’s attempt to ask for help and the lack of response. His assertion that humanity doesn’t want to help mutants is a nice story thread that we can see start in BotA, but the problem is that Bendis doesn’t get to write Henry most of the time. Outside of this story in Uncanny, this isn’t a plot that Hank is on in any way, shape, or form, so seeing it play out here is ultimately pointless. And yeah, I know, the whole thing gets deleted anyway, but up until the reset, that’s reality. That is Beast’s reaction and it hints at larger problems. Problems that no other writer has any interest in following, but it’s a nice attempt to give BotA some relevancy. NICE TRY BENDIS!

There’s a thread here that runs through the entire arc that I like. Charles reveals this hidden mutant, yeah, and Scott gets upset that Charles hid this mutant’s powers from him. In Scott’s words, he betrayed everything that he stood for in order to accomplish his goals. But Scott is guilty of the same actions, using the Phoenix Force to remake the world in his vision regardless of how the world felt about it. And now, when the world has denied him every chance to make the world a better place, he decides to take actions that would fly in the face of everything that Charles taught him. Revolution is something that Magneto would fight for, not Charles. But then, at the end of the arc, Tempest shows up and saves the day by manipulating time. Scott even tries to scold her when she tells him how close he came to ruining everything – but she tells him off. She did what she had to do – just like Scott and just like Charles. And it’s BEAUTIFULLY ironic. Here’s a young mutant with incredible powers and no morality – she can do WHATEVER she wants and she even threatens Scott’s life. Isn’t this what the X-Men fear most? A mutant who is willing to do ANYTHING because they’re able to? Scott FINALLY takes the lesson – he isn’t helping. He signs the school over to Ororo and shuts his down.

I’d like to point out that what Eva did is literally no different than what Legion did when he accidentally killed Xavier, or what Wanda did when she created the House of M. But she only killed ONE guy, so I guess that’s okay.

One of the downsides to this arc is that the threat of Scott having legal ownership of the JGS is totally unimportant. Even if Scott wanted the school closed, who’s to stop Logan from taking his space dollars and opening a new school elsewhere? There are no stakes here at all.

Otherwise, everyone’s voices are off. I hate that the X-Men will forgive Jean for destroying a planet, but not Scott for killing Charles. I hate that this arc should really be focused down on Scott, his relationship (for better or worse) with Charles, and Eva and her relationship with Scott, but instead we get a bunch of useless side crap about Muse questioning why they’re training to fight the Avengers, or Illyana catching Doc Strange in bed, or Dazzler’s hatred for Mystique, or Magneto suddenly deciding that Scott is being TOO Magneto like, or Beast getting angry at humanity, or various SHIELD shenanigans. What a waste of page space!

And their first confrontation with Matthew – God in heaven. Why did no one think to find and bring Leech along? Or why not bring Bobby and have him lower Matthew’s body temperature from a distance, eventually knocking him out? Or bring along Empath, who could have kept Matthew calm while someone talked him down? Or send in Kitty, who can FSCKING PHASE through any potential danger? I know the answer, and it’s why Bendis sent Exodus in – the point here is that there was No Other Way. This was Ultimate X-Men all over again, with a mutant so dangerous that there was no saving them in order to save the world. And that CAN be a super compelling story, but again, Uncanny is so isolated that who cares? Outside of this book, this arc will never matter. And despite featuring the entire case of the JGS, none of them do anything or learn anything or experience anything that carries over into their characters.

Why not have Logan approach Matthew with the intent to train him – to do what Charles Xavier would have wanted. Then have Scott approach Matthew, but as a weapon to be used (The whole POINT behind the Schism was that Scott was willing to use kids as weapons while Logan wanted to protect them). And in the end, either Magneto kills Matthew – as he’s so dangerous, he can only make things worse for mutantkind and Erik is the only one man enough to admit it – or have SHIELD do it cuz they don’t care to waste time with a threat this large. HELL, if anything, I would have had SHIELD put together a Mutant Response Squad made of Exodus, Mystique, and Leech. Mystique gets in close to Matthew as Charles Xavier, giving Leech the chance to shut off his powers, then Exodus kills him from a distance. The X-Men are outraged, but legally they can’t stand against SHIELD and SHIELD is too powerful for them to take on here. This would have upped the tensions between SHIELD and both halves of the X-Men (like Bendis clearly wanted - is Maria Hill in EVERY issue of Uncanny? Cuz it feels like it) and given Dazzler more personal motivation to go against SHIELD. Why is Exodus there? WHO CARES, IT’S A BENDIS BOOK, I DON’T HAVE TO CARE ABOUT MOTIVATION.

Or we could have kept the JGS out of this completely (since they aren't affected by this in the slightest) and instead pick up some MORE BotA plot pieces. Have the Brotherhood show up to recruit Matthew as a weapon (they have AN Xavier, yeah? And F-Beast is already paranoid about SHIELD distrusting mutants!) while Cyclops shows up to help him. The rest of the arc can play out the same basic way since none of this matters.

There’s also something bitterly ironic about having Bendis bad mouth Adam-X right next to the New Amazing and Totally Interesting Goldballs, The Best New X-Student Ever. *sigh*

It's a shame that it took Bendis nearly 30 issues to teach Scott this lesson. I like a lot of the ideas behind this stuff - most notably, Scott In Shock - but it's just to messy and unfocused and has too many characters and tries to be WAY more than a personal story about one man's failure to save his father and his inability to forgive himself. Why is Dazzler an agent of SHIELD? Why have all of these new, useless students hanging around? Why is Magneto on this team? If this story is about Scott screwing up when he pretends to be Charles, all of these stories need to work INTO that narrative and they just DONT. Have Scott run off Hijack for not listening to orders - despite the fact that he has useful powers and needs help. Have Goldballs die in the field, a mutant unsuited for combat being thrown into dangerous situations. Put Muse - a healer - in a position to have to kill someone in order to save someone. Have Tempest abuse her powers (and the timeline! It's what Bendis does when he writes the X-Men!) but save the day. THIS is the stuff that made me stop reading Bendis' - I can see the Good Ideas behind what he's doing, but I don't like what he does. There's SO MUCH POTENTIAL here that he squanders.
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das_boot
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by das_boot » 05 Dec 2017, 12:41

Utter disaster.

It’s very telling that the only way that writers could see to redeem characters like Cyclops and Emma is to either kill them off, or put them so far out of the mainstream of the titles (I’m excluding Secret Empire’s Emma here) that they haven’t been relevant parts of the X-Verse for... what? Nearly four years now? I mean, if we look at it from various angles...

CHARACTER: nope. ALL of his characters sound the same. I made this argument before, but I feel like someone should be able to read a couple of panels of dialogue o me, and as a Long-time X-fan, I should be able to tell roughly which character is speaking. You simply can’t do that with Bendis’ writing. More to the point, what development did anyone get? All these characters with the exception of the O5 were just kept in a stagnant holding pattern with no character development. And his new characters... Jesus. What’s Goldballs for? Did we need another healer? Tempus, Hijack and Morph have interesting power sets, but they simply didn’t get the growth as characters. Powers don’t make a character. Character makes a character. I don’t even want to touch on the insensitive way he used Jean to out Iceman Jr, suffice to say that there’s no way in hell that he deserved any of the acclaim he received for that, especially when Iceman’s story is being told far more organically and with a lot more heart in his solo.

STORY: I mean... was there one? Cyclop’s revolution was an utter farce, and almost everything he did with the O5 was more to do with them being walking nostalgia trips. Even hitting the same story beats with Angel in terms of him needing more than “just” a pair of wings and attaining them via a power that was potentially corrupting. BOTA left more plot danglers than it solved and literally none of them have been addressed. Not to mention that overly-Long last will and testament of Xavier arc. What the hell? Utterly pointless. Where did the plot of him being married to Mystique go? Just horrible.

LEGACY: so, we’re stuck with a Magneto who has reduced powers with no explanation, despite the fact that it seems that Emma’s recovered. The O5 are still around and while I think that Bunn’s doing the best he can with them, they’re still not interesting to me at all. They’re essentially taking up a book that could be used to tell the story of some characters who’ve been neglected for a long time and actually offer some kind of development to the X-Men line, rather than serving as some kind of extreme nostalgia kick that went on for too long. I’m not 100% convinced that they’ll be around much longer which, actually? Kind of a shame now that they’re being written by a competent writer. I hate that we have ANOTHER mini-schism, after the storyline of Schism, and then Bendis’ era— it just seems too much like we’re not getting any kind of cohesion to the teams, whatsoever. The fact that solo and satellite titles are more compelling than the main two titles (at least to me) is kind of concerning. He seems to have made it acceptable to have main characters stagnate and repeat story beats rather than trying something new and interesting. Again, I’m really enjoying Jean Grey’s solo, but why is she running from the Phoenix? I’d have far preferred to see Jeen trying to embrace it and prepare herself to wield it, rather than running from it and having to deal with idiot-face Hope trying desperately to feign relevance after a blissful but too short period of limbo.

Ugh.

Ultimately, BMB is the reason i’ve barely been interested in keeping up with the X-Men the last few years. I’m 32 years old and have been reading X-Men since I was 9, and I even remained loyal during the awful post-Onslaught years, but his poor story-telling and writing entirely disengaged me from the narrative of the series.
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ev82
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by ev82 » 06 Dec 2017, 00:21

Okay Das, now stop being nice and tell us how you really feel.
X-Men 2.0 Draft: Magik|Archangel|Sage|Revanche|Pete Wisdom|Chamber|Marrow|Caliban|Wild Child|Risque|Base: The World
Exiles Draft: Blink(AOA)|Rachel Summers(DOFP)|Psylocke(AOX)|Rogue(AOA)|Kymera(BOTA)|Jean Grey-Summers [Phoenix]|Crissie Pryde|

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das_boot
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by das_boot » 06 Dec 2017, 09:55

ev82 wrote:
06 Dec 2017, 00:21
Okay Das, now stop being nice and tell us how you really feel.
DC can have him and good riddance to bad rubbish.
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LockheedAndLoaded
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by LockheedAndLoaded » 12 Dec 2017, 06:54

I actually got into X-Men through All-New X-Men. It kind of makes a good jumping-on point for new fans (or at least this one). However, looking back at it, it doesn't hold up very well... Still, it was the stepping stone that allowed me to discover better stories and writers.

I suppose the best thing that came out of Bendis' run was Kitty's "I am Jewish, I am a mutant" speech. As an autistic teen, I sort of connected with the idea of being "different", but not in an instantly recognizable way. People will sometimes talk trash about autistic people in front of me, and I feel like this scene gave me the courage to stand up to them and be proud of who I am, not ashamed.

On the other hand, Bendis created Goldballs, and I cannot forgive him for making an entire character built around a joke that isn't even funny to begin with.
I am Lockheed, dragon from space and slayer of untold Brood (may they burn in the fires of the Black Sun for all eternity).

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Gremlin
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Gremlin » 16 Dec 2017, 14:40

@ Das - I agree with you on all points.

As a contributor to spotlights etc on this site I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the worst stories to summarise are the Bendis written ones. He always has ideas for what he wants to do with characters but then seems to get bored and drops them in favour of new characters. The Last Will arc is torturous and amounts to nothing. He even admitting in the writing that Cyclops' revolution never amounted to anything. He created some interesting characters that I hope get picked up by a better writer (Tempus especially).
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Wings
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Re: Bendis X-legacy: triumph or disaster

Post by Wings » 16 Dec 2017, 15:56

Gremlin wrote:
16 Dec 2017, 14:40
@ Das - I agree with you on all points.

As a contributor to spotlights etc on this site I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the worst stories to summarise are the Bendis written ones. He always has ideas for what he wants to do with characters but then seems to get bored and drops them in favour of new characters. The Last Will arc is torturous and amounts to nothing. He even admitting in the writing that Cyclops' revolution never amounted to anything. He created some interesting characters that I hope get picked up by a better writer (Tempus especially).
Yeah, the one thing I liked about the end of his run was how Tempus was left as a judge of Beast's (and the X-Men's) future actions. Writers could get a lot of mileage out of Eva in that role.
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